DWC
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Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:29 pm

Now that we have several "national" aviation threads on countries comparable or larger in size or population ( Australia, New Zealand, Turkey, China... ), I throught Canada deserved one because of its maturity & some interesting airlines trying to compete with Air Canada & Rouge, some quite successfully.

Yesterday CAPA released an article, the summary of which addresses the crucial discussion of JV with the US3.
Another topic interesting to me are Canadian LCCs & transatlantic service on new narrowbodies.

Potential JVs create intrigue in the Canada-US aviation market as route expansion continues

The Canada-US market may be one of the more mature markets in the world, but it remains highly strategic to airlines operating on those routes – evidenced by Delta and WestJet unveiling plans in late 2017 to create an immunised transborder joint venture. American, which is ending a codeshare with WestJet, is increasing its service to Canada in 2018 as its former codeshare partner now becomes more of a rival.

A push by WestJet’s rival Air Canada into the US during 2018 remains unrelenting, as some of its planned new routes speak directly to its sixth freedom strategy to funnel US passengers through its Canadian hubs onto long haul flights to Europe and Asia.

Air Canada continues to work to grow its share of international passenger traffic to and from the US, and believes that if its share rises to 2%, the airline could generate CAD1 billion in annual incremental revenue.

It is not clear whether the potential Delta-WestJet tie-up could hinder Air Canada’s sixth freedom ambitions, but Canada’s largest airline shows no signs of altering its strategy – to offer attractive itineraries for US passengers who do not have easy access to long haul flights.
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
MapleLeaf789
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:51 pm

Westjet announced this week that they are commencing TATL from Halifax to LGW and CDG on Max.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1317

This is good news for Halifax but I have a few questions:

- how much feed does Westjet have into Halifax?
- Is this a stop gap move until the Dreamliners arrive? Or, is Halifax going to be a hub?
- Who are they more directly challenging, AC/Rouge or WOW/Icelandair?

Just curious about the strategy.
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Airontario
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:21 pm

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 69874.html

AC to start YEG to YYJ and YLW, and YYC to YQQ, starting July 2.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:31 pm

MapleLeaf789 wrote:
Westjet announced this week that they are commencing TATL from Halifax to LGW and CDG on Max.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1317

This is good news for Halifax but I have a few questions:

- how much feed does Westjet have into Halifax?
- Is this a stop gap move until the Dreamliners arrive? Or, is Halifax going to be a hub?
- Who are they more directly challenging, AC/Rouge or WOW/Icelandair?

Just curious about the strategy.


They cancelled YYT-LGW and moved it to YHZ. A lof of the passengers on that flight were probably originating in YHZ. Their feed out of YHZ is not too bad. They have regular flights to YYZ, BOS, YUL, YOW, YYC, YEG, YQY, YYT, YQX, YDF, as well as summer seasonal flights to YVR and YWG.

YHZ has no business with any dreamliners. Those will be based at YYZ, YVR and YYC. YHZ-LGW will always remain a Max 8. Nothing more. It is the perfect plane for the route.

They clearly want a slice of the YHZ-UK pie. So they are challenging both AC and foreign carriers with this move. YHZ-CDG will also hurt WOW/Icelandair.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thenoflyzone
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:39 pm

DWC wrote:
...


AC wants to renew talks of a JV with UA on the transborder end as well, so a potential DL/WS tie-up will do nothing to AC's plans to increase 6th freedom traffic from the US.

By the time WS develops a semi decent network to Asia and Europe, AC will be miles ahead of them. They already are.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Dominion301
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:34 pm

WestJet's new ULCC Swoop will be announcing their initial routes tomorrow.

Not surprisingly, their western base will be at YXX and their eastern base will be at YHM. I wonder whether they'll simultaneously reduce mainline flying from those places?
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:35 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
AC wants to renew talks of a JV with UA on the transborder end as well, so a potential DL/WS tie-up will do nothing to AC's plans to increase 6th freedom traffic from the US. By the time WS develops a semi decent network to Asia and Europe, AC will be miles ahead of them. They already are.


On a side note, I can see a renewed interest for UA for such transborder JV. (Somehow, UA is currently more of an AC competitor than a partner...). With the arrival of the CSeries, AC will increase considerably its supremacy on many transborder routes. (While also offering a consistent quality flying on its 6th freedom operation - versus now where a portion is via RJs)
 
DWC
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:04 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
By the time WS develops a semi decent network to Asia and Europe, AC will be miles ahead of them. They already are.

Agreed. AC is a large airline by now ( historically everything was done to make Canadian Pacific's life difficult ( not unlike what the UK did to British Caledonian in that time ), flew them not long ago : pretty efficient but actually more of a LCC in Y ( like Finnair ) : food, yikes.

More to the point, the current CEO has aimed for agressive expansion & the strategy seems to be reaping profits, specially as a competitive operator between Europe & the Americas through Toronto, particularly as airside transfer is easy compared to the US. In any case,
1. I wonder how far Calin Rovinescu wants to expand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canad ... ng_&_fleet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_destinations
2. Rouge has been doing well apparently, though many of former AC destinations were transfered to it, so growth is not that easy to measure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canad ... stinations
3. AC & RV networks have some big loopholes : per wiki,
- other than HKG, no city in China
- other than BCN, no city in Spain,
- AC pulled out of large leisure markets like Colombia, Peru, Turkey, Thailand, Singapore...
4. There was a thread on AC new livery, which I find elegant but dull, the "frost mint" livery really stood out imho, very visual & recognizable instantly. Thoughts ?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:10 pm

DWC wrote:
( historically everything was done to make Canadian Pacific's life difficult ( not unlike what the UK did to British Caledonian in that time )


Sometimes I think BCal was in a worse place than CP. The latter was mostly a western Canada and Pacific airline whereas BCal was more like a little bit here, here, here and there and dominated by then's Bloody Awful.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:22 pm

DWC wrote:
2. Rouge has been doing well apparently, though many of former AC destinations were transfered to it, so growth is not that easy to measure


Sure it is. Quarterly and year end results include all parts of Air Canada ... Jetz and Rouge included. So when you are reading double digit growth, it really doesn't matter what is painted on the side of the airplane, it's all Air Canada

DWC wrote:
3. AC & RV networks have some big loopholes : per wiki,
- other than HKG, no city in China
- other than BCN, no city in Spain,
- AC pulled out of large leisure markets like Colombia, Peru, Turkey, Thailand, Singapore...


China? You mean like Shanghai and Beijing?
Spain? How about Madrid.
Colombia? Bogota
Peru? Lima
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
MartyMcFlyYYC
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:49 pm

DWC wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
By the time WS develops a semi decent network to Asia and Europe, AC will be miles ahead of them. They already are.

3. AC & RV networks have some big loopholes : per wiki,
- other than HKG, no city in China
- other than BCN, no city in Spain,
- AC pulled out of large leisure markets like Colombia, Peru, Turkey, Thailand, Singapore...


AC flies to Shanghai and Beijing.

I won't entirely bet against WestJet, as they have proven to be very successful with what they have done so far. However I don't think international success is going to come as quickly to them as they think.

Basically WestJet is trying to bring their hard product up to AC standards. And AC is trying to improve their customer service to WestJet levels. We live in interesting times.
 
DWC
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:49 pm

longhauler wrote:
China? You mean like Shanghai and Beijing?
Spain? How about Madrid.
Colombia? Bogota
Peru? Lima


alan3 wrote:
AC flies to PEK, PVG and MAD as well as BOG, CTS and LIM and IST. Or am I misunderstanding your point?


Yes. As I said above, "per wiki", didn't bother to check on AC's website, too cumbersome ;)
Thanks for your inputs, gentlemen, point taken.
Last edited by DWC on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
alan3
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:50 pm

DWC wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
By the time WS develops a semi decent network to Asia and Europe, AC will be miles ahead of them. They already are.

Agreed. AC is a large airline by now ( historically everything was done to make Canadian Pacific's life difficult ( not unlike what the UK did to British Caledonian in that time ), flew them not long ago : pretty efficient but actually more of a LCC in Y ( like Finnair ) : food, yikes.

3. AC & RV networks have some big loopholes : per wiki,
- other than HKG, no city in China
- other than BCN, no city in Spain,
- AC pulled out of large leisure markets like Colombia, Peru, Turkey, Thailand, Singapore...


AC flies to PEK, PVG and MAD as well as BOG, CTS and LIM. (all showing on Wikipedia).

I will say that in recent years AC did thankfully return back to some former Canadian Airlines destinations that had been terminated: TPE, NGO, AMS, FRA (from YVR). The few CP routes AC have not returned to include NAN, BKK and MNL.

The way AC are growing there aren't many parts of the world to add except maybe:
Sub-Saharan Africa (maybe from YYZ or YUL);
New Zealand from YVR (though I doubt they would given NZ is a Star Alliance partner),
Additional cities in China;
Whatever is left in Asia like SIN, BKK or SGN
Additional Latam like UIO or returning to GIG
Last edited by alan3 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
MartyMcFlyYYC
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:54 pm

alan3 wrote:
MartyMcFlyYYC wrote:
DWC wrote:


Basically WestJet is trying to bring their hard product up to AC standards. And AC is trying to improve their customer service to WestJet levels. We live in interesting times.


Indeed interesting to see them converge.

Are Westjet still charging for meals and alcohol on their long-haul flights? If so, and without a better J product, seems they are more interested in competing with the likes of a Norwegian than AC.


I am not as privy to their expansion plans as I once was. I haven't flown on their long haul 767. I believe they have expanded their onboard offerings because they contracted out their inflight catering to Gate Gourmet. The Max's all have ovens preinstalled in them, and they are supposed to retrofit the 737-800's with ovens as well.
 
alan3
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:56 pm

MartyMcFlyYYC wrote:
DWC wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
By the time WS develops a semi decent network to Asia and Europe, AC will be miles ahead of them. They already are.



Basically WestJet is trying to bring their hard product up to AC standards. And AC is trying to improve their customer service to WestJet levels. We live in interesting times.


Indeed interesting to see them converge.

Are Westjet still charging for meals and alcohol on their long-haul flights? If so, and without a better J product, seems they are more interested in competing with the likes of a Norwegian than AC.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:16 am

DWC wrote:
[

Yes. As I said above, "per wiki", didn't bother to check on AC's website, too cumbersome ;)
Thanks for your inputs, gentlemen, point taken.


Be careful, in that wikipedia has two destinations lists, one for Air Canada, and another for Air Canada Rouge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_destinations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canad ... stinations

Technically, there is also a third list, that of Air Canada Express destinations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_Avia ... stinations

alan3 wrote:

The way AC are growing there aren't many parts of the world to add except maybe:
Sub-Saharan Africa (maybe from YYZ or YUL);
New Zealand from YVR (though I doubt they would given NZ is a Star Alliance partner),
Additional cities in China;
Whatever is left in Asia like SIN, BKK or SGN
Additional Latam like UIO or returning to GIG


Don't think AC is interested in secondary Chinese cities. They simply want more access to Beijing and Shanghai. United's foray into secondary Chinese cities isn't succeeding. Euro carriers are having similar struggles. Apart from maybe CAN, i don't think AC will add any other cities in China. HKG is also congested, so until a new runway gets built, maybe SZX....

I could be wrong though. Rumor has it YVR will get a new TPAC route announcement during the Olympics.....
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
ytz
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:56 am

AC fleet developments. Speculation?

They've got lots of options. Somebody in another thread mentioned picking up 7 used 330s. Most likely to replace the last few 763s in mainline service.

I've always been curious why they didn't get at least a few 787-10s. It's perfect on may TATL routes ex-YYZ and YUL. Or is it just that flexibility afforded by commonality is so valuable that they'll stick with more 789s? Similarly curious why they never ordered 737-10s like WS did. Surely, those would be great for hub-to-hub flights.

Also curious what the long term plan for the fleet at Rouge. Will the 763s eventually be replaced by 290 seater 788s or do they pick up lots of 321LRs or wait for Boeing's MOM? For Rouge's narrowbodies, the CS300 is a perfect 319 replacement in this case.

More broadly on Rouge, I personally don't see the point. AC's mainline Y product is pretty close to Rouge. Why not just mainline it all? They can impose Rouge's a la carte fare scheme and offer a basic Y that options up. They can offer flights without J, just Y/Y+ on certain routes. I get that Rouge was about cutting some labour costs. But why dilute the AC brand at this point? Why not fold Rouge back in?
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:19 am

ytz wrote:
AC fleet developments. Speculation?

They've got lots of options. Somebody in another thread mentioned picking up 7 used 330s. Most likely to replace the last few 763s in mainline service.

I've always been curious why they didn't get at least a few 787-10s. It's perfect on may TATL routes ex-YYZ and YUL. Or is it just that flexibility afforded by commonality is so valuable that they'll stick with more 789s? Similarly curious why they never ordered 737-10s like WS did. Surely, those would be great for hub-to-hub flights.

Also curious what the long term plan for the fleet at Rouge. Will the 763s eventually be replaced by 290 seater 788s or do they pick up lots of 321LRs or wait for Boeing's MOM? For Rouge's narrowbodies, the CS300 is a perfect 319 replacement in this case.

More broadly on Rouge, I personally don't see the point. AC's mainline Y product is pretty close to Rouge. Why not just mainline it all? They can impose Rouge's a la carte fare scheme and offer a basic Y that options up. They can offer flights without J, just Y/Y+ on certain routes. I get that Rouge was about cutting some labour costs. But why dilute the AC brand at this point? Why not fold Rouge back in?


Rouge exists because it is a lower cost base model. Their crews are on a different contract which pays less, making it an efficient revenue generating tool.

They didn't order the 787-10 because it didn't exist when they ordered the 787 initially. That's not to say they won't in the future. Same with the 737-10, though that is far less likely. Large narrow bodies will likely remain Airbus.
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:27 am

The story that could be the biggest news (or the biggest implosion...) is the 3.5 airlines competing to become a real ULCC. Will Jetlines ever get off the ground? Will Enerjet's deal with Indigo ever go through? Will Flair be able to grow beyond the 737-400s? While there's no doubt Swoop is real, will WestJet keep it around if it kills off the others?
 
HJM
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

I believe AC would like more China destinations but the concern is the numerous China carriers that sell tickets below AC cost to operate. Code-sharing and more cooperation with Air China is likely, however.
 
UnitedFlyer
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:10 am

Would love to see the EWR-YYT open back up....
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:08 am

UnitedFlyer wrote:
Would love to see the EWR-YYT open back up....


I think that route has real potential. I've heard several people in New York talking about Newfoundland as a possible vacation destination after seeing Come From Away. Unfortunately, flight options are pretty limited and fares are extremely high. Newfoundland is gorgeous and could become a much bigger tourist destination if it were more (and more affordably) accessible. The boom in Icelandic tourism following WOW is a good case study.
 
MapleLeaf789
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:55 pm

Westjet certainly is diversifying its product: Westjet as we know them, swoop and then the long more premium product. I am pulling for them as I think the competition is healthy. But I wonder if their strategy is to "catch" Air Canada? As is mentioned here, Air Canada is a mature carrier, Westjet is still very much taking shape. I am very, very curious though about their long-haul expansion strategy. What will they do with those highly capable Dreamliners?

As for Air Canada, the CEO has made it pretty clear over the past few years that they want to grow AC to be a top 10 global carrier. And, to transform Toronto (and I think Vancouver/Montreal as well) into an Amsterdam hub operation. They clearly want to capture more transit traffic from Asia and Europe to the U.S. and South America (and reverse). I also think AC deserves kudos, for as much as they are a mature carrier, as I just mentioned, they are really trying to evolve and grow further.

I LOVE this thread.
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9252fly
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:48 pm

In other news, Westjet Link has delayed their startup until late June which seems to coincide with the launch of Swoop.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:43 pm

9252fly wrote:
In other news, Westjet Link has delayed their startup until late June which seems to coincide with the launch of Swoop.


One has nothing to do with the other....
 
Topguncanada
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:56 pm

I think Pacific CoastalWestJet Link is (like most Canadian carriers) having a hard time recruiting (and keeping) sufficient pilots...
 
Leslieville
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:33 pm

I appreciate that this thread now exists. Thank you.

Excited to see the launch of Swoop and a major new variable in the Canadian domestic market. Westjet is in the midst of a fascinating evolution and I'm looking forward to the introduction of the 787 in the coming years.
 
golfradio
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:40 pm

Any speculations, rumours about the CS300 routes? I really hope AC would restart YYZ - SNA.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
AC330
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:02 am

The Air Canada Enroute magazine has shown YHZ-FRA on the route map for a few months now. Would absolutely love to see that announced on the 737 Max 8. With Condor already operating YHZ-FRA and YHZ-MUC seasonally on 767-300’s, surely AC could make this work! Would be nice to see AC add a new international route from YHZ, especially after WS’s recent LGW and CDG announcement.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:16 am

golfradio wrote:
Any speculations, rumours about the CS300 routes? I really hope AC would restart YYZ - SNA.


According to Mark Galardo, Vice President Network Planning at Air Canada, YUL-SEA and YUL-SAN are possible CSeries routes.

Link in french only

http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/354ffce ... C___0.html

AC330 wrote:
The Air Canada Enroute magazine has shown YHZ-FRA on the route map for a few months now. Would absolutely love to see that announced on the 737 Max 8. With Condor already operating YHZ-FRA and YHZ-MUC seasonally on 767-300’s, surely AC could make this work! Would be nice to see AC add a new international route from YHZ, especially after WS’s recent LGW and CDG announcement.


I think YHZ-FRA is a matter of when, not if. Once AC has enough Max 8s in the fleet, it will start. The initial batch of Max 8s will be busy flying to Iceland and Ireland form YYZ/YUL, so summer 2019 is my bet for YHZ-FRA.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
HJM
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:10 am

WS ULCC (Ultra Low Cost Carrier) Swoop begins operating this summer. Air Canada rouge is an LC (Leisure Carrier) and so not direct competition with Swoop. Might AC also introduce a ULCC?
 
Steelhead
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:58 pm

Any news in regard to Canada Jetlines? Their planned routes out of YHM are 100 % similar to SWOOP. If they don't get out and announce their final schedule very soon, people will simply book SWOOP and forget Jetlines (which is simply what WestJet (SWOOP) wants).
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Steelhead wrote:
Any news in regard to Canada Jetlines? Their planned routes out of YHM are 100 % similar to SWOOP. If they don't get out and announce their final schedule very soon, people will simply book SWOOP and forget Jetlines (which is simply what WestJet (SWOOP) wants).


I might suggest Swoop's planned routes out of YHM are 100% similar to Jetlines (and Flair) and that it is of course, deliberate.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:20 pm

Steelhead wrote:
Any news in regard to Canada Jetlines?


Are they still alive or did they went belly up?
 
WJtter
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:36 pm

I have a very hard time believing Jetlines will be ready to launch in June..
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:20 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Steelhead wrote:
Any news in regard to Canada Jetlines?


Are they still alive or did they went belly up?


Still alive. Somehow their share prices are double what they were when they "IPO'd" (reverse merged actually) a year or so ago. $48M market cap. Not bad for a company with less than $4m in the bank, no AOC, no airplanes, and no revenue. Apparently someone out there has some hope they'll make something of themselves.

https://web.tmxmoney.com/quote.php?qm_symbol=JET
 
Steelhead
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:44 pm

Any news in regard to Canada Jetlines? Their planned routes out of YHM are 100 % similar to SWOOP. If they don't get out and announce their final schedule very soon, people will simply book SWOOP and forget Jetlines (which is simply what WestJet (SWOOP) wants).
 
golfradio
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:23 pm

How is AC 046 (YYZ - BOM) performing? Any chance this might go daily?
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
CPA62
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:32 pm

hello, very interesting thread and very exciting. just want to add little to the rumour mill based on the Air Canada road show to YVR employees a few months back.
I was not in attendance but a colleague had mentioned it was slipped that Air Canada is looking at starting YVR-BKK and YVR-SIN in the near future.
 
heathrow
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:04 pm

I would be very interested to know what is going on in the North.

5T and 7F had a codeshare agreement a while ago. That didn't go well for either of them from what I read.

Where are 7F's 737's? I'm surprised YEG - YZF is being operated by Summit 146's and ATR's.

4N has announced YXY - YYJ which starts in May. It is part of their YLW service, though I can't remember in which direction.
 
bmacleod
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:11 pm

AC330 wrote:
The Air Canada Enroute magazine has shown YHZ-FRA on the route map for a few months now. Would absolutely love to see that announced on the 737 Max 8. With Condor already operating YHZ-FRA and YHZ-MUC seasonally on 767-300’s, surely AC could make this work! Would be nice to see AC add a new international route from YHZ, especially after WS’s recent LGW and CDG announcement.


Curious why they (AC) would have a route shown that does not presently exist - YHZ-FRA. :boggled:

Has there been any official announcement form AC?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
bmacleod
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Re: Canadian Aviation Thread

Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:52 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
YHZ has no business with any dreamliners. Those will be based at YYZ, YVR and YYC.


Hoping this will eventually change. I would love to see a 787 at YHZ - scheduled - not emergency landings. :optimist:
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:47 pm

heathrow wrote:
I would be very interested to know what is going on in the North.

5T and 7F had a codeshare agreement a while ago. That didn't go well for either of them from what I read.

Where are 7F's 737's? I'm surprised YEG - YZF is being operated by Summit 146's and ATR's.

4N has announced YXY - YYJ which starts in May. It is part of their YLW service, though I can't remember in which direction.


7F appear to now be stable after several years of turmoil. The 146 Summit sub-contract is in place I think until 2020 at this point. The ATR apparently replaced the 73M on the YEG-YZF-YEV route. Normal Wells was dropped a year ago.

Out east, at least out of YOW, 7F appear to have taken the Celebrity Cruises charter contract away from 5T.

7F are also in desperate need of a major expansion of their YOW cargo facilitiy: http://www.obj.ca/article/kanata-based- ... cargo-area

As for where as 7F's 737s. 1 each at YOW. YUL, YWG and I think the 4th one is at YZF.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:03 pm

Since I can't edit my last post, Summit actually operate an RJ85 instead of a 146...but essentially the same thing. Here's what I found out about 7F's western ops:

a) YEG is currently on the following schedule:
7F891 YEG-YZF 0715-0940 AT5 ops Daily
7F959 YEG-YZF 1800-1955 AR8 ops days 24

7F892 YZF-YEG 1700-1925 AT5 ops Daily
7F956 YZF-YEG 2130-2325 AR8 ops days 13

That's a far cry from what 7F used to offer at YEG. I'm surprised they don't try a YEG-YHY-YZF routing 3-5 times/week. Seem like the perfect sized aircraft for such an endeavour.

b) Out of YZF;
YZF-YRT-YFB is operated 2x/week oddly enough on days 1 & 7. It used to be 3x on days 1,3 and 5.
There are no 7F 73Qs at YZF (unless one is based there strictly for charter work).

c) Out of YWG:
7F now fly 2x daily out of YWG (1x on Saturdays). This is a huge jump in service compared with the 5-7x weekly YWG-YRT 73C days. They now have a full-blown codeshare with Calm Air, meaning they've clearly replaced a lot of Calm Air ATR capacity to Churchill/Rankin with 7F 73Qs. I bet First Air/Calm Air are about the only ones thrilled with the ongoing problems with restoring passenger and freight rail service to YYQ.

Schedule:
7F700 YWG-YYQ-YRT 0730-1110 (arrival into YRT) ops X6 73Q
7F704 YWG-YYQ-YRT 0730-1110 (arrival into YRT) ops day 6 73Q
7F702 YWG-YRT 1600-1830 ops X6 73Q

7F701 YRT-YWG 1230-1450 ops X6 73Q
7F705 YRT-YYQ-YWG 1300-1625 (including the YYQ stop at around 1415) ops day 6 73Q
7F703 YRT-YYQ-YWG 1930-2250 (including the YYQ stop at around 2040) ops X6 73Q
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:41 pm

Would either 5T or 7F ever consider a YYZ flight? I know that Ottawa has most of the demand given the government connection, but YYZ would obviously be better for both passenger and cargo connecting traffic.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:37 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
Would either 5T or 7F ever consider a YYZ flight? I know that Ottawa has most of the demand given the government connection, but YYZ would obviously be better for both passenger and cargo connecting traffic.


Neither of them have any reason to do so. They simply feed YYZ traffic into YOW (which is usually around 5 pax per flight).

YOW is connected to Nunavut in the same way YUL is connected to Nunavik (i.e. there's zero YOW-Northern Quebec, whereas flights whereas YUL has several). The most obvious is the government traffic, but there's also hospital traffic and all the Inuit-related infrastructure that exists in Ottawa that doesn't exist in Toronto, like Larga Baffin for example.

As for cargo, it's all trucked to YOW and to a lesser extent YUL. Why needlessly set up costly infrastructure at YYZ, which is substantially further distance-wise to YFB than either YOW or YUL?

Steelhead wrote:
Any news in regard to Canada Jetlines? Their planned routes out of YHM are 100 % similar to SWOOP. If they don't get out and announce their final schedule very soon, people will simply book SWOOP and forget Jetlines (which is simply what WestJet (SWOOP) wants).


I see the aircraft depicted on their homepage is now of a 738 and now only says 'Jetlines'.

If Jetlines have half a brain, they'll largely avoid Swoop and Flair and launch with two aircraft (reach an agreement with 5T to provide backup aircraft in case of an emergency), 'hub' at YHM and fly to YOW and YUL in the east and offer YHM connections to YYC and YXX in the west, thus largely avoiding overlap with the former two to start. However, I doubt they'll be wise enough to do so assuming they get off the ground this year.
Last edited by Dominion301 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6387
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:49 am

Has it already been mentioned that Rouge is going to operate between YYZ and YQB 5x daily instead of Jazz 7x daily Q400?

https://www.lesoleil.com/actualite/air- ... d5cf453fd5
 
DWC
Topic Author
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:49 pm

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:07 pm

AC is introducing New Economy Basic : Air Canada’s lowest fare
interesting difference with the Economic Tango fares...
I don't see restrictions on carry-ons, but in their listing of benefits, they could have added free seat, free nozzle ( where applicable ), free breathing air, free electricity for the IFE, no cover charge to view the cart with "Delicious snacks, drinks and meals for purchase"...
Now available on select routes and flights within Canada, Economy Basic offers you:
Complimentary carry-on baggage
A personal 22.6 cm (8.9”) touch-screen TV
Hundreds of hours of top-rated entertainment
In-seat power for your laptop and a single-pin audio jack for your headset
Delicious snacks, drinks and meals for purchase
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... basic.html


Also, have we discussed Westjet's new ULCC ? SWOOP ?
Frankly, what's this silly trend with 0s in LC & ULCC names : hOp, scOOt, wOw and now swOOp ? how about scOOp ? wOOsh ? whOOps ?
Image
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2230
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:06 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Has it already been mentioned that Rouge is going to operate between YYZ and YQB 5x daily instead of Jazz 7x daily Q400?

https://www.lesoleil.com/actualite/air- ... d5cf453fd5


It was mentioned in the recent AC 2017 profits thread, but yeah it's worth mentioning again. YQB's first jet service on AC in years. Makes sense with the very strong growth at YQB. I wonder where that Q400 capacity will be redeployed to or whether it'll be used to fill in for DH1s as they're gradually retired? Not only that but YUL-YQB for the first time since circa 1990 will see jet service on YQB-YUL. While service is reduced to 10x on the route, 1x is on a Rouge 319...that also is a first in terms of operating Rouge on a Jazz route.

YOW-Alberta on AC is getting quite a boost this summer too. Mainline 319s are showing up on alll 3x YOW-YYC flights this summer (first time in years that this has been anything but an E90) and 1 of 2x YOW-YEG are getting a 319 upgauge. YOW-YYT is upgauging from a CRA to an E90 no doubt in response to WS cancelling YOW-YYT.

2 of 3x YUL-YWG flights is getting a huge boost to 320s...I believe they were E90s last summer.

No Rouge 767s on YYZ-YYJ this summer though - 2x 321. The capacity difference shifts to the new YYJ-YUL route.
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Canadian Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:40 pm

From that description, I don't get the difference between Basic Economy and Tango. No Aeroplan points?

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