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alan3
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Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:42 pm

CAN is the 3rd busiest airport in China and Guangzhou is one of the largest cities in the world. Yet it seems only AF and AY fly there. No US airline, no Canadian airline, no other major European airline ( BA, LH or KL), no airline from Australia or New Zealand either.

In fact more airlines from Africa serve the airport than from Europe, Oceania, North America and South American put together.

Is it because CZ have such a dominant fortress hub? Or because it's too close to HKG? Or because most business travel there is related to Africa-Middle East interests?

Wouldn't Skyteam partners like DL want to fly there to connect into CZ's hub for codeshares?

Just curious.
 
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Polot
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:53 pm

CAN is part of the tier 1 group of cities in the US along with PEK and PVG. All (or basically all, there may be one or 2 weekly left) tier 1 frequiencies on the US side are accounted for so a US airline would have to drop a PVG or PEK flight to start CAN. Obviously US airlines would prefer to serve those two cities over CAN.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:57 pm

Polot wrote:
CAN is part of the tier 1 group of cities in the US along with PEK and PVG. All (or basically all, there may be one or 2 weekly left) tier 1 frequiencies on the US side are accounted for so a US airline would have to drop a PVG or PEK flight to start CAN. Obviously US airlines would prefer to serve those two cities over CAN.

And HKG which is a stones throw away.
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LAXintl
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:04 pm

Guangzhou is not exactly as much of a global business city, but primarily a center for manufacturing.

The Africa links go back to fact lots of traders have set up shop to purchase lower end goods for resale back in Africa and other parts of the developing world.
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NichCage
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:08 pm

Pretty amazing to see the amount of African carriers serving CAN. EgyptAir, Ethiopian Airlines, Kenya Airways, Air Mauritius, and Air Madagascar I believe all serve can, for a total of 5. Along with that, China Southern also serves CAN-NBO alongside Kenya Airways. So the CAN-Africa market is no doubt big.

I believe UA was planning to launch SFO-CAN quite a long time ago, but it was cancelled after a while. Why was that?
 
alan3
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:19 pm

NichCage wrote:
Pretty amazing to see the amount of African carriers serving CAN. EgyptAir, Ethiopian Airlines, Kenya Airways, Air Mauritius, and Air Madagascar I believe all serve can, for a total of 5. Along with that, China Southern also serves CAN-NBO alongside Kenya Airways. So the CAN-Africa market is no doubt big.



Also, RwandAir is launching Kigali-Guangzhou this year!
Last edited by alan3 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:25 pm

NichCage wrote:
Pretty amazing to see the amount of African carriers serving CAN. EgyptAir, Ethiopian Airlines, Kenya Airways, Air Mauritius, and Air Madagascar I believe all serve can, for a total of 5. Along with that, China Southern also serves CAN-NBO alongside Kenya Airways. So the CAN-Africa market is no doubt big.


Guangzhou has a fair size African population. The community has shrink from its peak around 2014, but still of a decent size (Latest estimate is around 10k Africans in GZ, although it's way down from the 50k-60k estimate from a few years back).

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1039623.shtml
 
stylo777
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:32 pm

TK also has a daily 77W on the route and perfectly connects both Europe and Africa via IST (thus the full flights as far as I know...)
 
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mercure1
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:58 pm

Unlike Beijing and Shanghai, CAN is not a significant world city when financial, cultural and political metrics factored.

For comparison, Guangzhou is considered a Beta city, in the same category as Lima, Cape Town, Lisbon, Hamburg, Santiago, Philadelphia, etc,
mercure f-wtcc
 
bzcat
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:17 pm

The business links in CAN is different than PVG and PEK so that is reflective of the carriers that serve it. PEK and PVG have HQs of foreign companies and NGOs doing business in China so they tend to have front cabin demand from more traditional financial and business hubs. PEK and PVG also has fair amount of both inbound and outbound tourist traffic as they are better situated for connection/onward travel within China from North America and Europe.

CAN in comparison, lacks those traditional financial and business center links to Europe or North America and is at a disadvantage geographically for a lot of connecting traffic. Additionally, CAN must compete with HKG and SZX for traffic into the Pearl river delta region. PEK and PVG do not have that kind of close by international airport of that size and scale.

Also as LAXintl pointed out, the Chinese Govt designated CAN as tier one gateway in many bilateral air agreements (e.g. US) and thus inadvertently knee-capped CAN's ability to attract foreign carriers from countries that has only limited frequencies to tier one airports. If CAN was tier two, I think a few US airlines may be interested.
 
Andy33
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:33 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Unlike Beijing and Shanghai, CAN is not a significant world city when financial, cultural and political metrics factored.

For comparison, Guangzhou is considered a Beta city, in the same category as Lima, Cape Town, Lisbon, Hamburg, Santiago, Philadelphia, etc,


Perfectly true, although British Airways manage to serve all the cities you quote.
 
Melb94
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:04 am

Years ago there were even flights from Air Zimbabwe flying HRE-SIN-CAN!

Its still amazing that amount of African airlines that fly into Guangzhou!
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:05 am

Andy33 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Unlike Beijing and Shanghai, CAN is not a significant world city when financial, cultural and political metrics factored.

For comparison, Guangzhou is considered a Beta city, in the same category as Lima, Cape Town, Lisbon, Hamburg, Santiago, Philadelphia, etc,


Perfectly true, although British Airways manage to serve all the cities you quote.

Out of those cities:
2 are in Europe (HAM, LIS)
2 are in the Anglosphere (PHL, CPT)
3 are OneWorld hubs (LIM, SCL, PHL)
Not to mention that BA is much better positioned to serve Europe-Americas traffic flows than Europe-China, and that London has closer business ties to those cities than it does to Guangzhou.
"You know, if you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything, wouldn't you, at any time? And you would achieve nothing!" - Margaret Thatcher
 
alan3
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:28 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Unlike Beijing and Shanghai, CAN is not a significant world city when financial, cultural and political metrics factored.

For comparison, Guangzhou is considered a Beta city, in the same category as Lima, Cape Town, Lisbon, Hamburg, Santiago, Philadelphia, etc,


Perfectly true, although British Airways manage to serve all the cities you quote.

Out of those cities:
2 are in Europe (HAM, LIS)
2 are in the Anglosphere (PHL, CPT)
3 are OneWorld hubs (LIM, SCL, PHL)
Not to mention that BA is much better positioned to serve Europe-Americas traffic flows than Europe-China, and that London has closer business ties to those cities than it does to Guangzhou.


And BA's attempt at a third mainland Chinese destination (CTU) failed.

In terms of serving secondary cities in China, (other than PEK and PVG), for whatever reason BA is far behind.

AY flies to CAN, CKG, XIY and soon NKG
KL flies to XMN, HGH and CTU.
LH flies to NKG and TAO
AF flies to WUH
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why don't more western airlines fly to CAN?

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:41 am

alan3 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
Andy33 wrote:

Perfectly true, although British Airways manage to serve all the cities you quote.

Out of those cities:
2 are in Europe (HAM, LIS)
2 are in the Anglosphere (PHL, CPT)
3 are OneWorld hubs (LIM, SCL, PHL)
Not to mention that BA is much better positioned to serve Europe-Americas traffic flows than Europe-China, and that London has closer business ties to those cities than it does to Guangzhou.


And BA's attempt at a third mainland Chinese destination (CTU) failed.

In terms of serving secondary cities in China, (other than PEK and PVG), for whatever reason BA is far behind.

AY flies to CAN, CKG, XIY and soon NKG
KL flies to XMN, HGH and CTU.
LH flies to NKG and TAO
AF flies to WUH


LH is also restarting SHE this summer after ending the route 2 years back. AF also fly to CAN.

It can be tough competing with Chinese carrier to secondary cities, though. The Chinese carriers cost base will just be lower due to its lower labor cost.

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