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UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:55 pm

UPS announced that it has announced and order for an additional 14 747-8 freighters along with 4 more 767-300 freighters

UPS (NYSE:UPS) today announced it has ordered 14 Boeing 747-8 cargo jets and four new Boeing 767 aircraft to provide additional capacity in response to accelerating demand for the company’s air services. All of the new aircraft will be added to the existing fleet and no existing aircraft are being replaced.
The aircraft will be delivered on an expedited schedule, building on the company’s 2016 order of 14 Boeing 747-8 freighters. All 32 of the jets will be delivered by the end of 2022, adding more than 9 million pounds of cargo capacity. UPS’s global airline network includes more than 500 owned and leased aircraft. UPS received three new 747-8 freighters in 2017.


https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... -767s.html

Congrats to Boeing and UPS on the order
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 pm

A bit of Captain Obvious, but this buys 747 line more than additional 2 years of guaranteed operations. Impressive, for a production line that was all but considered doomed, just recently.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:59 pm

Long live the Queen!
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:00 pm

Congratulations to Boeing and UPS. This is outstanding news for the 747 line. It looks like the next 20-30 years will see the 747-8F and to a lesser extent the 747-400F be UPS's "International" Flagship.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:03 pm

Along with this new order the backlog is now 25. At a rate of 6 frames per year that is now 4 years of production

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f180968606
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:09 pm

Who said all quads are dead? This is brilliant? Any chance Boeing might bring in a PIP and extend the production life of this beauty a few more years? I’m sure there have been advances in technology since the -8 was first launched.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:10 pm

qf789 wrote:
Along with this new order the backlog is now 25. At a rate of 6 frames per year that is now 4 years of production

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f180968606


I'm sure this will be a stupid question to many but I know very little when it comes to manufacturing. Why is it so important to keep the line open by slowing production? Why couldn't you keep it open for say 6 months with no orders if you hope to gain some more in the short term?
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:12 pm

Nice to see 747 and A380 getting lifeline orders in the same year.

Also nice to see 767 getting a few orders too.

CX747 wrote:
Congratulations to Boeing and UPS. This is outstanding news for the 747 line. It looks like the next 20-30 years will see the 747-8F and to a lesser extent the 747-400F be UPS's "International" Flagship.


And 767 might live 60-80 years or even more given its role as a tanker.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:15 pm

Considering IATA just announced that global cargo demand grew record 9.0% in 2017, I suspect more freighter orders are around the corner.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:22 pm

Boeing press release

The order for 14 747-8F's are a conversion of their 14 options from the original order

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/custom ... order.page
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:26 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Who said all quads are dead? This is brilliant? Any chance Boeing might bring in a PIP and extend the production life of this beauty a few more years? I’m sure there have been advances in technology since the -8 was first launched.


It is the only bulk cargo freighter of its type being sold. There is zero reason to invest that money in it. Any 748 sales at this point at solid margins and are icing on the cake.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:31 pm

bigjku wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Who said all quads are dead? This is brilliant? Any chance Boeing might bring in a PIP and extend the production life of this beauty a few more years? I’m sure there have been advances in technology since the -8 was first launched.


It is the only bulk cargo freighter of its type being sold. There is zero reason to invest that money in it. Any 748 sales at this point at solid margins and are icing on the cake.


Agreed. Only PIP I can see happening is an engine PIP by GE piggybacking on the 787.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:31 pm

AMAZING ORDER
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:36 pm

Quite correct bigjku.This aircraft was and remains unique in the World of cargo transport and it's unlikely there will be another of her kind.
The A388C was never going to be a match for it.It could gently carry on being made for years.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:36 pm

I am relieved. When I saw it, I almost jumped out of my chair. This should keep the 747-8 line busy for the next few years. There might possibly be more as the air cargo demand increases, according to Boeing. Long live the 747! :)
Last edited by UAL747422 on Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:41 pm

I don't know what surprised me more, the original order or the conversion of all of their options. Who would've thought we'd see an A380 order and a 747-8 order within weeks of each other.

I believe someone in another thread last week (UPS Pilot maybe) said there was a rumor that UPS was exercising their options for 14 and ordering an additional 14 for a total of 42. Here's hoping that additional 14 materializes down the road.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:42 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Along with this new order the backlog is now 25. At a rate of 6 frames per year that is now 4 years of production

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f180968606


I'm sure this will be a stupid question to many but I know very little when it comes to manufacturing. Why is it so important to keep the line open by slowing production? Why couldn't you keep it open for say 6 months with no orders if you hope to gain some more in the short term?


Stopping and starting a production line is incredibly complex and expensive due to the supply chain. If the production stopped for 6 months, the suppliers would stop building parts and that machinery would get used elsewhere. A slow line keeps the supply chain active and avoids contract renegotiations.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:42 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
I'm sure this will be a stupid question to many but I know very little when it comes to manufacturing. Why is it so important to keep the line open by slowing production? Why couldn't you keep it open for say 6 months with no orders if you hope to gain some more in the short term?


It would be very expensive to have a production line open with nothing to build. Lots of parts have to be ordered up to a year in advance in order to make the finished product on time, and the supply chain for these parts has to have some guarantee themselves that it is worthwhile to keep a production line open. Not to mention that some parts are customer-specific. If you don't know who the customer is going to be for your next build a year from now, how do you know which specific parts to order? You're not going to spend several million dollars in parts inventory "just in case" someone happens to buy that specific configuration. If you let your supply chain shut down, will they be ready to start back up again when you are?

If you have nothing to build, what do you do with your employees? Pay them to sit around? That obviously gets expensive. If you lay them off, there's no guarantee they'll be interested in coming back when a new order comes in, so now you have to go out and hire, and train, new staff. That gets expensive, too.

There is also the question of having to maintain and keep up production facilities, machines, etc., or go through the process of mothballing them, and then bringing them back into working order. Shutdown and startup costs are immense. All of these issues also apply to your supply chain, as well (the companies that build the different parts of the wings, engines, tail, etc., all have their own issues of production facilities, staffing, etc.).

If you pay for the cost of shutting down and starting up again, it very easily exceeds the cost of keeping things going even at a reduced rate. If you can't sell your product even at the reduced rate, that means you can't sell it at all and you might as well shut it down.

That's why a "small" order of 14 planes, keeping the production line going for another 2 years, is so important to the 747.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:44 pm

conversion? can someone explain?
Why do they call it rush hour when nothing moves?
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:44 pm

UPlog wrote:
Considering IATA just announced that global cargo demand grew record 9.0% in 2017, I suspect more freighter orders are around the corner.


I would expect some more potential orders from big 747 operators like Cathay Pacific, Atlas, Cargolux, etc. Freight is finally picking up again. Good timing since if it hadn’t, the 747 line likely would have closed and not reopened
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:45 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
I'm sure this will be a stupid question to many but I know very little when it comes to manufacturing. Why is it so important to keep the line open by slowing production? Why couldn't you keep it open for say 6 months with no orders if you hope to gain some more in the short term?


It would be very expensive to have a production line open with nothing to build. Lots of parts have to be ordered up to a year in advance in order to make the finished product on time, and the supply chain for these parts has to have some guarantee themselves that it is worthwhile to keep a production line open. Not to mention that some parts are customer-specific. If you don't know who the customer is going to be for your next build a year from now, how do you know which specific parts to order? You're not going to spend several million dollars in parts inventory "just in case" someone happens to buy that specific configuration. If you let your supply chain shut down, will they be ready to start back up again when you are?

If you have nothing to build, what do you do with your employees? Pay them to sit around? That obviously gets expensive. If you lay them off, there's no guarantee they'll be interested in coming back when a new order comes in, so now you have to go out and hire, and train, new staff. That gets expensive, too.

There is also the question of having to maintain and keep up production facilities, machines, etc., or go through the process of mothballing them, and then bringing them back into working order. Shutdown and startup costs are immense. All of these issues also apply to your supply chain, as well (the companies that build the different parts of the wings, engines, tail, etc., all have their own issues of production facilities, staffing, etc.).

If you pay for the cost of shutting down and starting up again, it very easily exceeds the cost of keeping things going even at a reduced rate. If you can't sell your product even at the reduced rate, that means you can't sell it at all and you might as well shut it down.

That's why a "small" order of 14 planes, keeping the production line going for another 2 years, is so important to the 747.


Thank you and Newbiepilot for the explanation
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:47 pm

Glad to see the 767F order along with, I kind of thought we would have seen UPS pick up more 767's by now, their last order for the type being in 2007. I'm guessing this will be the first of quite a few incremental orders for the type from UPS for a while to come.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:49 pm

UAL747422 wrote:
conversion? can someone explain?


UPS has options which were "converted" to firm orders.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:49 pm

parapente wrote:
Quite correct bigjku.This aircraft was and remains unique in the World of cargo transport and it's unlikely there will be another of her kind.
The A388C was never going to be a match for it.It could gently carry on being made for years.


I suspect the 778F when it’s done will put substantial pressure on it for anything that does not get loaded by the nose.

Right now you get about 30% more cargo by volume and weight out of a 748 than a 77F. My rough estimates are that the 778F should get rough 85% of the 748 volume and weight capability and it would be better on long segments. Hell there may be an argument to have the 779 be a freighter variant for high volume low weight routes. You would likely get almost all the volume capacity of a 748 but you trade weight for fuel quite a bit so I am not sure. Someone else could do that math better than I right now.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:57 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
I'm sure this will be a stupid question to many but I know very little when it comes to manufacturing. Why is it so important to keep the line open by slowing production? Why couldn't you keep it open for say 6 months with no orders if you hope to gain some more in the short term?


It would be very expensive to have a production line open with nothing to build. Lots of parts have to be ordered up to a year in advance in order to make the finished product on time, and the supply chain for these parts has to have some guarantee themselves that it is worthwhile to keep a production line open. Not to mention that some parts are customer-specific. If you don't know who the customer is going to be for your next build a year from now, how do you know which specific parts to order? You're not going to spend several million dollars in parts inventory "just in case" someone happens to buy that specific configuration. If you let your supply chain shut down, will they be ready to start back up again when you are?

If you have nothing to build, what do you do with your employees? Pay them to sit around? That obviously gets expensive. If you lay them off, there's no guarantee they'll be interested in coming back when a new order comes in, so now you have to go out and hire, and train, new staff. That gets expensive, too.

There is also the question of having to maintain and keep up production facilities, machines, etc., or go through the process of mothballing them, and then bringing them back into working order. Shutdown and startup costs are immense. All of these issues also apply to your supply chain, as well (the companies that build the different parts of the wings, engines, tail, etc., all have their own issues of production facilities, staffing, etc.).

If you pay for the cost of shutting down and starting up again, it very easily exceeds the cost of keeping things going even at a reduced rate. If you can't sell your product even at the reduced rate, that means you can't sell it at all and you might as well shut it down.

That's why a "small" order of 14 planes, keeping the production line going for another 2 years, is so important to the 747.


Absolutely, At a reduced rate, at least somebody in the world is employed and trained to do every task. Maybe only 4 instead of 64 people, but at least someone exists. When nobody alive (or in the company) knows how to do the task then you lost 40 years of institutional knowledge. And there is no guarantee at all the company can re-learn it properly. And it goes all down the supply chain to infinity. I guess that is what you just said...
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:57 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
UAL747422 wrote:
conversion? can someone explain?


UPS has options which were "converted" to firm orders.


The initial order was for 14 firm plus 14 options, todays order is a conversion of those options
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:57 pm

F A N T A S T I C !

Best order news in a long time, although it was nice to hear that EK will get more A380s.

UPS needs to replace a lot of MD-11s over the next years, plus a handful of older converted 744BCFs.

This takes the 748F line into 2022. In the coming years many 744F operators have to make their decision for replacements as half of all the 744Fs will pass 20 years of age, something which will undoubtedly mean more orders. 30+ orders over the next 4 years seem quite realistic to me. Environmental uncertanties aside the world will witness 747s flying 80 years after the prototype´s first flight. Quite an achievement.

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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:59 pm

parapente wrote:
This aircraft was and remains unique in the World of cargo transport and it's unlikely there will be another of her kind.
....It could gently carry on being made for years.


Which is both ironic, and apt, considering the 747 was originally conceived as a transporter/freighter.
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:03 pm

For any aviation enthusiast, this is great news. This means we will see the 747 in production until at least 2022.
This is also an important order to bridge the gap until the 744F replacement wave comes. Together with the fact that the cargo market seems to be picking up again according to IATA, we can hope for some more orders in the future...

And the 767 just keeps going and going and going...
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:06 pm

Looks like the VLA aircraft are getting good news this year, what with the A380 being thrown a life preserver and the 747 getting some help, too. Good for both programs (although, unlike the A380 Emirates order thread, where some Airbus fans were throwing shade at the Americans or Boeing people over how they would be "mad" that the A380 got a lifeline. Don't see that here."

Congrats to Boeing and UPS. If the reports and forecasts are true, this may not be the last we hear of 747-8F orders, as some say the market is about to come back for this size of aircraft for freight operations.

I'm a big fan of the 767, so very happy that it will be in the skies for a long time. With any luck, UPS, FedEx, and Amazon buy more to fill out their operations. Hopefully before my military career is over, I can swing a flight on a KC-46 if I'm lucky enough. (I'm sure I'll get a couple more commercial 767 flights in)
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:06 pm

As Twain said: "Reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated." Looks like the old girl will outlive me.....
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:07 pm

It sounds like UPS is very happy with the 748F, as they just received their first one only 6 months ago. To exercise this option that quickly, means they like what they have and there could be a potential for a lot more down the road. They currently have 37 MD-11 in their fleet, with the oldest being from 1992 and the youngest from 1997. Those will all have to be replaced in the next decade, and it's either going to be the 777 or the 748 that replaces them.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:15 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
It sounds like UPS is very happy with the 748F, as they just received their first one only 6 months ago. To exercise this option that quickly, means they like what they have and there could be a potential for a lot more down the road. They currently have 37 MD-11 in their fleet, with the oldest being from 1992 and the youngest from 1997. Those will all have to be replaced in the next decade, and it's either going to be the 777 or the 748 that replaces them.


I think you'll see more 767's fill their MD-11 retirements.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:24 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
It sounds like UPS is very happy with the 748F, as they just received their first one only 6 months ago. To exercise this option that quickly, means they like what they have and there could be a potential for a lot more down the road. They currently have 37 MD-11 in their fleet, with the oldest being from 1992 and the youngest from 1997. Those will all have to be replaced in the next decade, and it's either going to be the 777 or the 748 that replaces them.


I think you'll see more 767's fill their MD-11 retirements.


The MD-11F holds 21,096 cu ft of cargo. The 767F only holds 15,469 cu ft. The 777 holds 23,051 cu ft. More likely they would go with the latter or the 748F then the former.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:32 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Any chance Boeing might bring in a PIP and extend the production life of this beauty a few more years? I’m sure there have been advances in technology since the -8 was first launched.


Back in 2013 Boeing started a study for the 747-8 Intercontinental known as "Project Ozark" to pull more empty weight out of the frame and add more aerodynamic side-of-body fairings to reduce drag. The freighter has generally met her payload-range requirements from EIS thanks to the MTOW boost and since EIS Boeing has pulled almost 5000kg of weight out of the frame to get it back to better than target OEW. So the main "pain point" was fuel burn due to the GE engine missing it's SFC target by 2.7%. GE clawed back 1.8% of that with PiP1 and with the additional aerodynamic tweaks (good for a 1% SFC reduction) and the weight reduction (also good for another 1% SFC reduction), the airframe is on-spec for fuel burn and better-than-spec for payload/weight since December 2013 (the delivery of Cathay Pacific Freight's 11th bird).


iceberg210 wrote:
Glad to see the 767F order along with, I kind of thought we would have seen UPS pick up more 767's by now, their last order for the type being in 2007. I'm guessing this will be the first of quite a few incremental orders for the type from UPS for a while to come.


In addition to new-builds, UPS is also taking delivery of 767-300ERBCFs, having placed an order for three ex-JAL birds at the 2017 Paris Air Show. So I would expect them to take a mix of P2F and new-builds going forward.


piedmontf284000 wrote:
The MD-11F holds 21,096 cu ft of cargo. The 767F only holds 15,469 cu ft. The 777 holds 23,051 cu ft. More likely they would go with the latter or the 748F then the former.


The 767F will fit into existing MD-11F gate infrastructure whereas the 777F will not (wider wingspan). Also, UPS is likely not very slot-constrained at their hubs so they should be able to up their frequencies if needed.
Last edited by Stitch on Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Stitch wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Any chance Boeing might bring in a PIP and extend the production life of this beauty a few more years? I’m sure there have been advances in technology since the -8 was first launched.


Back in 2013 Boeing started a study for the 747-8 Intercontinental known as "Project Ozark" to pull more empty weight out of the frame and add more aerodynamic side-of-body fairings to reduce drag. The freighter has generally met her payload-range requirements from EIS thanks to the MTOW boost and since EIS Boeing has pulled almost 5000kg of weight out of the frame to get it back to better than target OEW. So the main "pain point" was fuel burn due to the GE engine missing it's SFC target by 2.7%. GE clawed back 1.8% of that with PiP1 and with the additional aerodynamic tweaks (good for a 1% SFC reduction) and the weight reduction (also good for another 1% SFC reduction), the airframe is on-spec for fuel burn and better-than-spec for payload/weight since December 2013 (the delivery of Cathay Pacific Freight's 11th bird).


iceberg210 wrote:
Glad to see the 767F order along with, I kind of thought we would have seen UPS pick up more 767's by now, their last order for the type being in 2007. I'm guessing this will be the first of quite a few incremental orders for the type from UPS for a while to come.


In addition to new-builds, UPS is also taking delivery of 767-300ERBCFs, having placed an order for three ex-JAL birds at the 2017 Paris Air Show. So I would expect them to take a mix of P2F and new-builds going forward.


Thanks stitch for that very informative post
Thanks and best Regards
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:41 pm

I am so pumped to see this. Long Live The Queen!
 
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:52 pm

Very good news. Four holers are not dead yet. Airports will be a happier place for people like me!

First the A380, now the 747.
I'm sure (as with the EK A380 order), this is a great confidence boost, that will help others join the party (CX, CV, KE).
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
Flighty
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:29 pm

It is incredible how long the 767 lifespan is likely to be, holding the 747 aside for a second. The 767 flew in 1982 and is still in active production 36 years later. It is a downsize option. Including the US tanker project, the platform will see 65-75 years in service, maybe more.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:31 pm

Great news for UPS, Boeing and the Queen of the Skies. Even if these are options being converted, this is excellent. Long live the Queen!

Regarding the 767, I agree that it's amazing how long this type will be in operation. The 767/KC-46 is the "new" 707/367-80/KC-135, which the last orders rolled off the line in 1989 I believe. Good, solid and proven technology goes a long way.
 
MEA-707
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:35 pm

Any chance Boeing will increase the production rate? With the current rate of 6 a year they can only build the UPS birds, with 3 to 5 at the most for ABC until 2022 (not sure how solid their order still is). It will be unattractive for other airlines to wait that long. If they want to offer production slots with deliveries starting late next year they will have to increase production, or at least keep that door open.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
trex8
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:37 pm

Our Father who art in heaven, please please let CI order 748Fs to replace their 18 744Fs!
 
TC957
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:49 pm

trex8 wrote:
Our Father who art in heaven, please please let CI order 748Fs to replace their 18 744Fs!

I think CI must be a candidate in future, but Asiana Cargo still have 744BCF's and surely these need replacing, given Korea's ban on airliners over 20 years old. Air China Cargo, with their experience operating the 748i, could be another needing a few 748F to replace their 744BCF's too.
 
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United787
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:57 pm

What is the status of the VC-25 (Air Force One) replacements? Is the USAF still taking the two parked and undelivered 748is parked in the Mojave? Has work begun on these for conversion/outfitting etc? I ask because if not, this buys the USAF sometime if they wanted to purchase new builds...

BTW, the irony of Air Force One being planes originally meant for the Russians is interesting given the current political climate...even though the Russians never actually took possession of them.
 
bigjku
Posts: 1906
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
Any chance Boeing will increase the production rate? With the current rate of 6 a year they can only build the UPS birds, with 3 to 5 at the most for ABC until 2022 (not sure how solid their order still is). It will be unattractive for other airlines to wait that long. If they want to offer production slots with deliveries starting late next year they will have to increase production, or at least keep that door open.


If you saw anything it would be fractional increases and even that is unlikely in my view. The product is an absolute monopoly on the large freight market. The 77F is it’s only competitor really and that doesn’t work for everyone. It’s not a 737/A320 situation where availability is a competitive thing. If they can’t get a 748F in 2 years they can’t really buy something else.

Any production increase would be whatever you could do without hiring on and training more people or expending capital. So we are talking like one or two more frames a year. Even that is unlikely.
 
airzona11
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:02 pm

The 748 and 763F/winglets look amazing in the UPS livery. Great to see orders for both.
 
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Stitch
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:10 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
Any chance Boeing will increase the production rate?


Only if other 747 operators express strong interest in orders. It also depends on how quickly the subs can scale up having just scaled down.


United787 wrote:
What is the status of the VC-25 (Air Force One) replacements? Is the USAF still taking the two parked and undelivered 748is parked in the Mojave? Has work begun on these for conversion/outfitting etc? I ask because if not, this buys the USAF sometime if they wanted to purchase new builds...


The two Transaero NTUs are now owned by the USAF and the Lufthansa NTU is being used to as a testing and system integration bird.
 
Leslieville
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Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:17 pm

Air Cargo industry question: are most freighters directly owned by their operators (Cargolux, UPS, etc.), or is the leasing model common, as it is for passenger aircraft?

Great news about this order! Excited to see the 747 hold on, and hopefully ride another wave of freighter demand as 744Fs and P2F conversions hit their life limits.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2469
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:27 pm

It is great to see the 747 kept alive with orders like this. Air freight has had a big recovery year after the slump of so many years so, as others have mentioned, hopefully existing customers will place new orders.

Eventually, a replacement will need to be designed and I was curious if others have thought about a "swing tail" version for the 777X? If Boeing was willing to pile the investment money into a swing tail 747LCF, then will the economics work for the same technology for a 777X freighter for outsize cargo? A lot of outsize cargo bulks out, before it reaches the load weight capacity of the aircraft.With the 777X being Boeing's future large transport for probably the next 30+ years, seems this maybe a good 747-8F replacement idea?
 
dmg626
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: UPS announces order for 14 747-8F and 4 767F

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:30 pm

Does UPS carry bulkier cargo than FedEx? Just wondering why this plane is a good fit for UPS but not at FedEx

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