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757usairways
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F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:54 pm

Frontier adds three new destinations from PHL to IND, GRR, and DFW. IND and GRR starts on April 9, 2018 and DFW will start on May 17, 2018.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.philly.c ... famphtml=y
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:12 pm

They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.
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redwingspilot
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:20 pm

usairways85 wrote:
I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.


GRR has had AA to PHL twice daily with a 50 seater for at least 2 years now, then they're increase to 3 daily 50 seater's the day before F9 starts.
 
usairways85
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:21 pm

I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.
 
Italianflyer
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:50 pm

Always good to see growth but these adds are bizarre. Obviously the folks in DEN know something I dont; be interesting to see how the retAliAtion plays.
 
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flymco753
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:18 pm

They really like GRR, but that's a good thing, GRR needed ULCC flights other than Allegiant. I suspect GRR will eventually get MIA and TPA too.
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DeltaRules
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:21 pm

usairways85 wrote:
I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.


PHL-CMH was one of the original F9 cities this time around and I don't think it made it to year 2.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
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mariner
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:44 pm

I assume these routes are all seasonal, for the summer.

The two most interesting routes to me are TUL-IAD and TUL-SJC - I hsve my fingers crossed for both.Image

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OKCDCA
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:47 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.

Wednesday and Saturday only service. Interesting... Tulsa doesn't have any service to the Bay Area currently and I'm not sure Allegiant is still operating TUL-BWI, otherwise this will be TUL's only DC area service. Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights. I'll be interested to see how the SJC flights do since TUL has been trying to establish itself as the "Tech City" in Oklahoma.
 
Jshank83
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:56 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.

Wednesday and Saturday only service. Interesting... Tulsa doesn't have any service to the Bay Area currently and I'm not sure Allegiant is still operating TUL-BWI, otherwise this will be TUL's only DC area service. Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights. I'll be interested to see how the SJC flights do since TUL has been trying to establish itself as the "Tech City" in Oklahoma.


G4 runs TUL-BWI and Monday/Friday still in the summer. Starts back up in May.
 
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mariner
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:04 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights.


I get leave TUL at 7.19pm and arrive SJC 8.44pm Leave SJC 7.20 am and arrive TUL at 12.34 pm.

What's so "horrendous" about any of those?

mariner
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jeffh747
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:15 pm

The DFW add is very interesting. They’ll be competing head to head against American, Spirit, and Southwest (to DAL). What equipment will they be using? A321?
EDIT: I did a dummy booking and its showing as an A320. Fares start at only $39 for non-club members. Dirt cheap for a 3 hour flight!
A318 A319 A320 A320neo A321 A321neo A332 A333 B717 B727 B734 B73G B738 B739 B752 B762 B763 B772 B788 CRJ2 DHC6 DHC8-300 E145 E190 MD82 MD83 MD90 SF340B
 
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FA9295
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:50 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.


Those Tulsa routes don't seem like they'd be very well-performing routes...
 
atcdan
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:51 pm

I know from experience that AA commands a huge premium DFW-PHL, and Spirit once you add carry on fees is close to the same. it will be good to have competition in that market to drive down the pricing.
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WaywardMemphian
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:52 pm

If Frontier can sell seats from TUL to SAN and SJC, MEM sure as hell can.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:59 pm

These flights must be available due to the recent ISP reductions.

Frontier 14
 
lat41
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
These flights must be available due to the recent ISP reductions.

Frontier 14

No, because ISP has MSP, ATL and DTW starting up in Apr. to replace them.
 
OslPhlWasChi
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:18 pm

PHL-DFW is 3x weekly, A320
PHL-IND is 2x weekly (MF), A320
PHL-GRR is 2x weekly (MF), A320

FIrst time F9 will serve DFW and GRR but they did prior serve IND from PHL for one summer season two years back.
IND and GRR will be the only F9 flights at PHL that are less than 3x weekly.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:36 pm

There are actually 9 new routes (8 new and one year-round from seasonal):
COS - ATL
DEN - RSW (now year-round)
LAS - RDU
MIA - SJU
PHL - DFW
PHL - GRR
PHL - IND
TUL - SJC
TUL - IAD

I suggest someone changes the title to something a little more generic about a F9 expansion
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:02 pm

OslPhlWasChi wrote:
.....PHL-GRR is 2x weekly (MF), A320

FIrst time F9 will serve DFW and GRR.......IND and GRR will be the only F9 flights at PHL that are less than 3x weekly.


F9 has been operating GRR- MCO & RSW since December. In the past, F9 operated GRR-DEN from 2010 into 2013.
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phluser
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:15 pm

usairways85 wrote:
I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.


Atleast with PHL-DFW, even in season, it's still inferior to NK's service on the route, as NK flies daily. Maybe if one needs the extra 10lbs of checked baggage (NK permits 40lbs while F9 is at 50lbs), F9 will work better though over NK, in the comparison of the ULCC service. Not only is NK daily, but it offers DFW-ATL-PHL, etc. (last year, I was late at the DFW TSA checkpoint, NK gate agent put me on a 1-stop)

I'm somewhat surprised F9 can't make PHL-IAH work daily, so it selects PHL-DFW to fly as well, where NK and WN have nonstops between the markets.

AA was offering $99 Basic Economy fares (and for seats on flights less than a week away) on it's hub-hub last year as well, several times. Cheaper fares were more available on DFW-PHL over DFW-BWI even though BWI is the Southwest hub where the greater presence of LCC should drive fares to be lower than to PHL, an AA "fortress" hub.

But F9's strength is at PHL, so that should help and the Sun/Thursday days it's offered should be popular as those are strong travel days.
 
bridge29
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:07 pm

DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?
 
OKCDCA
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:10 pm

mariner wrote:
OKCDCA wrote:
Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights.


I get leave TUL at 7.19pm and arrive SJC 8.44pm Leave SJC 7.20 am and arrive TUL at 12.34 pm.

What's so "horrendous" about any of those?

mariner

Using my Oklahoma perspective, there aren't a lot of people traveling from the Bay Area to Tulsa, at least that I'm aware of. If this is going after leisure travelers, specifically people from Tulsa going to the Bay Area, you essentially don't get a whole day in the area and still have to pay for a place to stay that night and then have to pay for a place to stay the night before you leave rather than flying out the afternoon/evening of your last day. Just my two cents, I'm sure others would find these times great but not me.
 
ncflyer
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:37 pm

Boy does it seem like F9 is struggling to put it's capacity to use. The one a day or even lower frequencies they offer (as well as contingency plans due to flight delays/cancellations) are simply unacceptable to business travelers. Yet flying routs on non-leisure destinations such as IND to PHL? I'm sure Frontier does just fine to Florida or Vegas or even to RDU for summer outer banks traffic, or SEA for summer cruise traffic, but some of these other flights? I just have to point to Cleveland my home where they went in with guns blazing but withdrew very quickly from a lot of the head scratcher routes such as these new ones.
 
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mariner
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:02 am

ncflyer wrote:
Boy does it seem like F9 is struggling to put it's capacity to use. The one a day or even lower frequencies they offer (as well as contingency plans due to flight delays/cancellations) are simply unacceptable to business travelers. Yet flying routs on non-leisure destinations such as IND to PHL?


You probably don't remember but the less-than-daily service saved Frontier's butt. It was the first actual sign of the turnaround after the disastrous Republic days, with TTN as the most visible sign of it - less than daily service and not just to Florida.

As for PHL, I've always understood that Frontier does extremely well there in summer - misery in winter of course, except for the Caribbean, Mexico and Florida.

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n7371f
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:15 am

F9 apparently pulled COS-SJC before it launched, per the COS paper.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:52 am

n7371f wrote:
F9 apparently pulled COS-SJC before it launched, per the COS paper.


http://gazette.com/frontier-airlines-ad ... le/1620165

COS-LAX is cut as well, I wonder if COS-RSW/TPA will return next year.....
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phluser
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:00 pm

bridge29 wrote:
DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?


I missed that, but you're right, it's a red-eye. I wonder why fly DFW-PHL then at all, when it's so inferior to the other options in this market, including it's peer competitor NK, that I mentioned. It should have looked into DFW-PVD: there is a lack of nonstop in this market, and the flight would arrive at PVD around 5am as a red-eye.

ncflyer wrote:
Boy does it seem like F9 is struggling to put it's capacity to use. The one a day or even lower frequencies they offer (as well as contingency plans due to flight delays/cancellations) are simply unacceptable to business travelers. Yet flying routs on non-leisure destinations such as IND to PHL? I'm sure Frontier does just fine to Florida or Vegas or even to RDU for summer outer banks traffic, or SEA for summer cruise traffic, but some of these other flights? I just have to point to Cleveland my home where they went in with guns blazing but withdrew very quickly from a lot of the head scratcher routes such as these new ones.



For it's domestic network, it has success on routes to/from MCO, LAS and DEN, with some success at MIA/TPA/PBI/RSW seasonally. It hasn't been able to replicate the success that NK has on other domestic flows.

TTN is success in a small way. Not that many ASMs into TTN from it's overall network. It hasn't returned on several of those routes once added and the fulcrum is TTN-MCO. Even at PHL, it's success is largely stemmed to PHL-MCO where it's daily and not a low frequency service.
 
MAH4546
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:22 pm

bridge29 wrote:
DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?


There are far shorter redeyes, like flights between Florida and Puerto Rico (including F9's MIA-SJU) and Spirit redeyes from the Northeast to FLL.
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mariner
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:46 pm

phluser wrote:
For it's domestic network, it has success on routes to/from MCO, LAS and DEN, with some success at MIA/TPA/PBI/RSW seasonally. It hasn't been able to replicate the success that NK has on other domestic flows.


I'm surprised you didn't mention CVG. Or ORD.

phluser wrote:
TTN is success in a small way. Not that many ASMs into TTN from it's overall network. It hasn't returned on several of those routes once added and the fulcrum is TTN-MCO. Even at PHL, it's success is largely stemmed to PHL-MCO where it's daily and not a low frequency service.


TTN won't ever be much more than it is until it gets a new - decent size - terminal.

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aeternum nauta
 
bridge29
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Re: F9 adds PHL-IND/GRR/DFW

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:17 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
bridge29 wrote:
DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?


There are far shorter redeyes, like flights between Florida and Puerto Rico (including F9's MIA-SJU) and Spirit redeyes from the Northeast to FLL.


I know everyone has their own definition, but I don't really consider a flight that leaves at 22:25 and lands at 01:02 to be a red-eye (F9's MIA-SJU). You still have time to land and get a decent sleep. If you're landing after 4am, it's essentially morning by the time you get to your destination.

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