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readytotaxi
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BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:50 pm

BA 43, 747 leaves LHR at 18.00 followed by BA 2041, 777 from LGW at 18.30 wondering why they need the extra Gatwick flight, is it just seasonal traffic this time of year?
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TedToToe
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:19 pm

Winter seasonal, x5 per week, I believe. I guess it is aimed at the more price sensitive VFR end of the market that, otherwise, would use the ME3.
 
gabrielchew
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:08 pm

BA are filling their CPT flights very easily, and the fares aren't cheap. Adding the LGW-CPT flights, as well as an extra few rotations from LHR jan-Mar is catering to the very high numbers of tourists visiting SA. This is peak tourist time.
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PSG55
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:58 pm

I’m a former resident of Cape Town and BA was the one airline I never flew with from London. Always far more expensive. Yet both SAA (perhaps not surprisingly) and Virgin pulled their flights between London and Cape Town saying they couldn’t make money on it. BA seems to do very nicely. Odd...
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:46 pm

Why is it odd? BA has feed at London they can rely on, on top of O&D.

SAA or Virgin don't have that.
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axiom
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:21 pm

It's not low yield VFR. London Gatwick serves wealthy South of England local traffic. There's no need to use LHR capacity for routes with exceptional local demand.
 
Arion640
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:47 pm

Gatwick will be P2P while Heathrow is getting feed from everywhere. I wouldn’t be surprised it if it goes A380 as rumoured when CPT is upgraded.
 
skipness1E
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:36 am

Gatwick is way more leisure focussed, not a criticism, and long haul sun has always done well out of Gatters. Cape Town nicely complements the LHR service, same with Vegas.
 
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cv990Coronado
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:55 am

There is massive local demand, also note that the LHRCPT flights go from T3 again proof of O&D, not transfer. The JNB flights use T5 as "axiom" says no need to use some LHR slots. The LGW flights are only 777's so that would be cheaper to operate.

In addition as pointed out by "skipness1E" regarding the complimentary LHR and LGW service for LAS another point is the LAS also uses T3 at LHR due high O&D traffic.
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gunnerman
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:32 pm

The LGW flights are winter seasonal, three times a week. They will terminate on 24 March 2018 and restart on 12 November 2018. The 772s have no First class cabin on the LGW flights, whereas the 744s on the double-daily LHR flights have First with 14 seats.

744
First (14)
Club World (52)
World Traveller Plus (36)
World Traveller (235)
Total seats: 337

772
Club World (48)
World Traveller Plus (24)
World Traveller (203)
Total seats: 275
 
cityairline
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:50 pm

When I was in Cape Town on vacation in February last year, I’m almost sure that BA had THREE 747s taking off for LHR within the range of two hours, early evening.
Is this not the case anymore...?
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gunnerman
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:36 pm

You can get extra flights in this peak season. Right now, BA has this schedule from LHR.
BA043 - daily
BA059 - daily
BA045 - Fridays from 9-23 February (arriving next day)

So, for three Saturdays this month, there will be three BA aircraft arriving at CPT, all 744s. And they return to LHR within a short period, namely 1845, 2025 and 2120, good for planespotters.
 
shankly
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:53 pm

Thomas Cook are also doing weekly seasonals to CPT from both LGW and MAN. Us Brits can't get enough of SA!
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DobboDobbo
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:15 pm

shankly wrote:
Thomas Cook are also doing weekly seasonals to CPT from both LGW and MAN. Us Brits can't get enough of SA!


I'm surprised there is not a scheduled service between MAN and CPT, on a seasonal basis.

The odd ad hoc cruise charter by MT is unlikely to adequately cater for the market, much of which I suspect uses the aforementioned BA services or the MEB3.
 
grjplanes
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:56 pm

BA045 is suppose to be 2 weekly...Sat and Mon in CPT
MT operates 3 weekly LGW-CPT plus the the extra bi-weekly charters from MAN and LGW...both on Thursdays in CPT
 
NichCage
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:05 pm

Why not? If BA performs well in CPT and they can't add extra flights from LHR, at least they can offer extra flights from LGW.

Another example is LAS. BA will be re-adding the LGW-LAS route. Maybe they wanna add more flights from LHR, but they can't so they do it from LGW instead.

This also shows how bad LHR needs a third runway. Besides flying leisure markets from LGW (such as BGI, BDA, CUN, FLL, KIN, MRU, etc), I'm sure BA would like to get extra slots to overall expand there LHR network and increase flights when they want to.
 
[email protected]
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:46 pm

In 2016, around 334,000 flew LON-CPT-LON non-stop. It'll be good to compare with 2017.
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bananaboy
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:01 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
shankly wrote:
Thomas Cook are also doing weekly seasonals to CPT from both LGW and MAN. Us Brits can't get enough of SA!


I'm surprised there is not a scheduled service between MAN and CPT, on a seasonal basis.

The odd ad hoc cruise charter by MT is unlikely to adequately cater for the market, much of which I suspect uses the aforementioned BA services or the MEB3.


Not to derail a thread about British Airways but to correct this point, the LGW-CPT service is scheduled, three times a week for some of the winter season.
As far as I am aware, it is unrelated to cruise ship business.

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/g ... _W2018.pdf

Mark
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DobboDobbo
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:26 am

bananaboy wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
shankly wrote:
Thomas Cook are also doing weekly seasonals to CPT from both LGW and MAN. Us Brits can't get enough of SA!


I'm surprised there is not a scheduled service between MAN and CPT, on a seasonal basis.

The odd ad hoc cruise charter by MT is unlikely to adequately cater for the market, much of which I suspect uses the aforementioned BA services or the MEB3.


Not to derail a thread about British Airways but to correct this point, the LGW-CPT service is scheduled, three times a week for some of the winter season.
As far as I am aware, it is unrelated to cruise ship business.

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/g ... _W2018.pdf

Mark


Hi Mark - I was referring to the MAN-CPT flights, which I believe are cruise ship charters. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:29 am

NichCage wrote:
Why not? If BA performs well in CPT and they can't add extra flights from LHR, at least they can offer extra flights from LGW.

Another example is LAS. BA will be re-adding the LGW-LAS route. Maybe they wanna add more flights from LHR, but they can't so they do it from LGW instead.

This also shows how bad LHR needs a third runway. Besides flying leisure markets from LGW (such as BGI, BDA, CUN, FLL, KIN, MRU, etc), I'm sure BA would like to get extra slots to overall expand there LHR network and increase flights when they want to.


There are plenty of good arguments for expanding LHR.
However, the ability of a company (BA) to expand its operations is not one of them (unless BA are going to put their hand in their pocket, which they are not).
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:27 am

I believe BA carries a big chunk of traffic from North America to CPT via LHR...since there's no direct flights to CPT from NA, so quickest besides going via JNB is then via UK/Europe...yes there's traffic probably on all carriers (BA/LH/AF/KL/TK/EK/QR/ET)...but BA should have a reasonable chunk of that.
For instance in Nov'17 (which is only the start of the season and not really yet peak time) arriving internationally in CPT was 6304 US visitors and 1998 Canadian visitors...lot more obviously arriving also through domestic flights from JNB then (17575 US arrival in JNB)...so that's 276 PDEW between NA and CPT only arriving internationally...yes perhaps some also not travelling directly from home already, could have arrived from Victoria Falls or Namibia or Kenya as a combination trip, but still the majority would have.

Similarly there was 15 589 UK arrivals in CPT for Nov (519 PDEW)...so that is a proven big O&D market on it's own...but then again also several UK travellers travel via other international stops (AF/KL/LH/TK/EK/QR/ET/KQ and others)...so then BA makes up with North American traffic and vice-versa with other European connections, especially from Scandinavia and Ireland again (easily another 7000)...I re-iterate, only arriving on the international side...lots more arriving domestic entering via JNB and then heading to CPT or travelling through other parts of South Africa first.

All this without South African residents which also use the service as O&D and connecting

So as mentioned before the main target for BA at LHR is still O&D, however there is opportunity for connections as well (although a bit of a schlep for most having to switch terminals)...similarly then the LGW operations is also focussed on O&D, but I guess there's also room for some connections? With the added slots BA got at LGW, I'm wondering if they'll perhaps increase LGW-CPT to at least 4 weekly for the next season.
 
bananaboy
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:23 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

I'm surprised there is not a scheduled service between MAN and CPT, on a seasonal basis.

The odd ad hoc cruise charter by MT is unlikely to adequately cater for the market, much of which I suspect uses the aforementioned BA services or the MEB3.


Not to derail a thread about British Airways but to correct this point, the LGW-CPT service is scheduled, three times a week for some of the winter season.
As far as I am aware, it is unrelated to cruise ship business.

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/g ... _W2018.pdf

Mark


Hi Mark - I was referring to the MAN-CPT flights, which I believe are cruise ship charters. Sorry if that wasn't clear.


Nope..my bad, I was speed - reading.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:31 pm

No probs mate - no criticism and I could have been clearer!
 
Cunard
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:15 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

I'm surprised there is not a scheduled service between MAN and CPT, on a seasonal basis.

The odd ad hoc cruise charter by MT is unlikely to adequately cater for the market, much of which I suspect uses the aforementioned BA services or the MEB3.


Not to derail a thread about British Airways but to correct this point, the LGW-CPT service is scheduled, three times a week for some of the winter season.
As far as I am aware, it is unrelated to cruise ship business.

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/g ... _W2018.pdf

Mark


Hi Mark - I was referring to the MAN-CPT flights, which I believe are cruise ship charters. Sorry if that wasn't clear.


I can absolutely one hundred % assure you that the MAN-CPT flights are in no way cruise connected!

There are no cruise ships based in Cape Town by any cruise line and the only calls that the port tends to see are port of call visits by cruise ships on their respective world cruises.

The only cruise line regularly operating out of South Africa during the winter is the Italian MSC Cruises with their MSC Magnifica which is based out of Durban and catering purely to the local market.

No involvement whatsoever regarding TCX and the above.
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DobboDobbo
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:49 am

Cunard wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
bananaboy wrote:

Not to derail a thread about British Airways but to correct this point, the LGW-CPT service is scheduled, three times a week for some of the winter season.
As far as I am aware, it is unrelated to cruise ship business.

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/g ... _W2018.pdf

Mark


Hi Mark - I was referring to the MAN-CPT flights, which I believe are cruise ship charters. Sorry if that wasn't clear.


I can absolutely one hundred % assure you that the MAN-CPT flights are in no way cruise connected!

There are no cruise ships based in Cape Town by any cruise line and the only calls that the port tends to see are port of call visits by cruise ships on their respective world cruises.

The only cruise line regularly operating out of South Africa during the winter is the Italian MSC Cruises with their MSC Magnifica which is based out of Durban and catering purely to the local market.

No involvement whatsoever regarding TCX and the above.



Happy to stand corrected, but if the flights are not cruise connected, and are not scheduled, presumably they are for package holidays?
 
shankly
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:45 am

The TC flights can be booked stand alone without a package. I guess they are properly titled seasonal scheduled services. Flight out on the 11th Feb available for just under 800 pounds return, which is not a bad deal for a short notice booking (BA 1,025 direct 880 via JNB)

Along with the Edelweiss, Eurowings and Condor connections there are some good Northern European budget options now available for Cape travellers
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GRJGeorge
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Re: BA to CPT, both LHR and LGW?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:04 am

I think there's some confusion over the Thomas Cook (MT) flights discussion:

MT operates 3 weekly seasonal scheduled LGW-CPT...these are obviously open for standalone bookings.

Then they also operate bi-weekly (once every two weeks) another LGW-CPT and a MAN-CPT...since 11 January, both on the same Thursday, arriving about 2hours apart...this coming Thursday (8 Feb) should then be the 3rd time for these flights...probably only until somewhere in March? These I believe are not open for standalone bookings?

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