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codc10
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:12 pm

alan3 wrote:
[
zakuivcustom wrote:
hohd wrote:

As for the original question - it's 1 single frequency during low season. I seriously don't see what prompt all the fuss about that.


I guess on the weekend they are using the 752 on two flights, UA16 and UA110.

It's not a fuss, really, just a discussion since a 757 from New York to London seems to be a specifically UA thing but I guess the 23 fewer J seats on a 752 vs the 764 works out for them fine when compared with lower Y yields and capacity.


Most weekends going forward only have the one 757 flight EWRLHR. You'll also note that some midweek days this month are all-767.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5118
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:21 pm

Because the route demands frequency. This allows them to maximize profits and not sell seats super low just to fill them. Less seats better fares per seat =more money overall.

The northeast to UK is easy 757 range, no reason they wouldn't .
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:21 pm

IADCA wrote:
jeffrey1970 wrote:
I do not know why people get upset about flying to London on a 757. I flew from CVG to ANC, and MSP to FAI on 757's. Those were both very long flights, but were comfortable.


I'm not sure of the timing of the flights you were on, but one issue is that many people want to get up and walk around/use the bathroom on overnight flights, especially when you start to get to morning. That's a lot more challenging on a single-aisle plane. And it's also not a huge issue as to the UA 757 LHR flights. As far as I know, the only UA LHR route that's year-round 757 is the morning IAD-LHR and return, which is a daytime flight both directions.


I think you bring up a good point, but on those flights I was able to get up and walk around and use the bathroom. I wonder if it is psychological. People see that the 757 is a smaller plane, so they feel the space to walk around is to small. I just think the 757 is a fine aircraft, and I would not have a problem flying it TATL.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
flydude380
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:53 pm

So the S-CO flight attendants have some internationals to fly, rather than leave all the flying to the S-UA LHR based flight attendants :P

Jokes aside... Frequency and AC utilization are a couple of reasons.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7474
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:03 am

jayunited wrote:
alan3 wrote:
Okay yes, all airlines fight for space at LHR, but I didnt really expect LH to fly a 380 for the 85 minute flight to LHR. I thought of long-haul differently, especially New York to London. New York has a metro population of 23 million, London 14 million. These are two of the largest metropolitan areas in the world and the flight is over 8 hours.

Given that BA has about 13 flights a day between LHR and New York area all on 777's or larger, I was surprised that 2 of United 5's daily flights (40%) was operated by a 757. I assumed those flights would always be full.
But now I know!


It seem as if your entire argument centers around the type of equipment being used and you are assuming flights are full but if you just do a search online (dummy booking) just to view seat maps what you will notice is every airline flying between New York and LHR basically have sold out their premium cabins there are some flights today (05, February 2018) on all the major carriers with some premium seats available but for the most part first and business class on airlines like AA, BA, DL, UA, and VS are full up front but at the same time almost every flight on all the major carrier have a ton of empty seats in coach. Business travel between New York and LHR is strong year around, there is no slow season however there isn't a lot of demand for leisure travel during winter months. What UA does is in order to maintain a consistent year around frequency they will downguage some flights, and lets not forget for years both CO and then UA operated four 757s on EWR-LHR and one 772ER. Fast forward to today and only one flight is utilizing a 757 all the rest are 763/4s and the main reason UA maintains 763/4's during the winter months is because demand for premium seats remains strong. UA has no partner at LHR; AA has BA, DL has VS UA is on it own. Utilizing 772ER/Ws from hubs like EWR and ORD may make sense to people on site like this one but at the same time those larger aircraft could delude UA's yields on these routes especially in coach. Even IAD just a few years ago was 763 in the morning and two 777s were used in the evening. Today UA utilities a 752/772ER/788, even though there has been a slight reduction in premium seats that was necessary because UA had to much capacity in coach on our IAD-LHR route. Each individual airline has to use the right aircraft for the route and for UA that aircraft includes 752s.


United does have partners at LHR, all the star alliance airlines are its partners. The LH group of airlines not only feed UA in BRU, FRA. VIE and ZRH but LHR too. LHR is one of the biggest European destinations for the LH group airlines.

When Lufthansa merged with BMI British midland airlines it acquired a huge stash of LHR slots spread across its airlines so that it became the second biggest LH slot holders, even bigger then Virgin. BMI was later sold to British Airways but LH kept many slots. The Lufthansa group of airlines have absolutely no shortage of Heathrow slots.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7474
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:14 am

The new "757" at LHR will be the A320neo, some have speculated Jetblue might fly from BOS & JFK to LHR. Flying to LHR is not like flying to other airports, the slots are to be respected for the rarity they are. Flights from America to LHR should have airplanes comensorate with a slot's economic value, they are reason why airlines like Air Transat and Norwegian use Gatwick.

IF JB does fly to the UK using A321neo it would most likely use Stansted or Gatwick.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:20 am

FA9295 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because Newark, NJ is a very small city :banghead:

No it's not a "very small city".


Newark is the 70th largest city in the US with 280,000 people, smaller than even LEX, BFL, and SCK.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3438
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:31 am

jfk777 wrote:
United does have partners at LHR, all the star alliance airlines are its partners. The LH group of airlines not only feed UA in BRU, FRA. VIE and ZRH but LHR too. LHR is one of the biggest European destinations for the LH group airlines.

When Lufthansa merged with BMI British midland airlines it acquired a huge stash of LHR slots spread across its airlines so that it became the second biggest LH slot holders, even bigger then Virgin. BMI was later sold to British Airways but LH kept many slots. The Lufthansa group of airlines have absolutely no shortage of Heathrow slots.


Wow talk about reaching to make a point. Although Star is well represented at LHR it is not a transfer point for Star traffic between the LH group and UA. As a matter of fact the UA traffic that is connecting at LHR either to destinations in Europe/Africa or connecting to UA flights back to the U.S. most of that traffic comes from or connects to BA or VS flights. The amount of traffic that connects to a Star flight at LHR is minuscule when compared to AA/BA, DL/VS or even UA/LH at FRA,MUC or traffic UA traffic connecting between BRU and Africa. For most passengers on UA if they were to connect to a Star carrier at LHR that connection at LHR adds a completely unnecessary stop especially when there are plenty of nonstop flights from the U.S. to Start hubs in Europe or when a connection to BA or VS would save time, money and eliminate a completely unnecessary stop.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
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Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:44 am

jfk777 wrote:
Flying to LHR is not like flying to other airports, the slots are to be respected for the rarity they are. Flights from America to LHR should have airplanes comensorate with a slot's economic value, they are reason why airlines like Air Transat and Norwegian use Gatwick.

They fill the slot, which is more than they would do for any other airport with winter loads as bad as LHR. Seriously these flights and barely pushing 100 passengers on a good day. Most European cities get weekly reductions if not seasonal cancellations. Suggesting that you put your largest airplane on the route that has the least demand would be incredibly stupid from a business perspective.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:57 am

B737900ER wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Flying to LHR is not like flying to other airports, the slots are to be respected for the rarity they are. Flights from America to LHR should have airplanes comensorate with a slot's economic value, they are reason why airlines like Air Transat and Norwegian use Gatwick.

They fill the slot, which is more than they would do for any other airport with winter loads as bad as LHR. Seriously these flights and barely pushing 100 passengers on a good day. Most European cities get weekly reductions if not seasonal cancellations. Suggesting that you put your largest airplane on the route that has the least demand would be incredibly stupid from a business perspective.


They have no choice but to fly the slot. Heathrow slots (and Gatwick for that matter) are use-it-or-lose-it. Unless a slot is operated on 80% of the possible dates in an IATA season, it is forfeited without compensation. Try explaining to stockholders why an asset that is on the books at anything up to $50m has suddenly disappeared. Note that you can't get away with operating 100% of the time in summer and only 50% in winter, because the two seasons are accounted separately.
 
alan3
Topic Author
Posts: 454
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Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:43 am

afcjets wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because Newark, NJ is a very small city :banghead:

No it's not a "very small city".


Newark is the 70th largest city in the US with 280,000 people, smaller than even LEX, BFL, and SCK.


I’m sure you already know EWR is not there specifically to serve residents of Newark but rather the metro New York region of 23 million+ people.
 
alan3
Topic Author
Posts: 454
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:51 am

Andy33 wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Flying to LHR is not like flying to other airports, the slots are to be respected for the rarity they are. Flights from America to LHR should have airplanes comensorate with a slot's economic value, they are reason why airlines like Air Transat and Norwegian use Gatwick.

They fill the slot, which is more than they would do for any other airport with winter loads as bad as LHR. Seriously these flights and barely pushing 100 passengers on a good day. Most European cities get weekly reductions if not seasonal cancellations. Suggesting that you put your largest airplane on the route that has the least demand would be incredibly stupid from a business perspective.


They have no choice but to fly the slot. Heathrow slots (and Gatwick for that matter) are use-it-or-lose-it. Unless a slot is operated on 80% of the possible dates in an IATA season, it is forfeited without compensation. Try explaining to stockholders why an asset that is on the books at anything up to $50m has suddenly disappeared. Note that you can't get away with operating 100% of the time in summer and only 50% in winter, because the two seasons are accounted separately.


So for those few seasonal routes that do exist (DL’s SLC-LHR or UA’s DEN-LHR) they are getting them from airlines that serve Heathrow in winter only, or from ski and sun routes I guess? LHR does seem to have a lot fewer seasonal summer only routes from US airlines than CDG, FRA, etc.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:34 am

alan3 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
No it's not a "very small city".


Newark is the 70th largest city in the US with 280,000 people, smaller than even LEX, BFL, and SCK.


I’m sure you already know EWR is not there specifically to serve residents of Newark but rather the metro New York region of 23 million+ people.


Of course I knew, several a.netters informed me of that a few lines up. :rotfl:
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:35 am

afcjets wrote:
alan3 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

Newark is the 70th largest city in the US with 280,000 people, smaller than even LEX, BFL, and SCK.


I’m sure you already know EWR is not there specifically to serve residents of Newark but rather the metro New York region of 23 million+ people.


Of course I knew, several a.netters informed me of that a few lines up. :rotfl:

That, and a central gateway to Europe (and hell, Asia to some extent...)
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Why does UA fly the 757 to LHR?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:31 am

alan3 wrote:
So for those few seasonal routes that do exist (DL’s SLC-LHR or UA’s DEN-LHR) they are getting them from airlines that serve Heathrow in winter only, or from ski and sun routes I guess? LHR does seem to have a lot fewer seasonal summer only routes from US airlines than CDG, FRA, etc.

There are slots that exist only in the summer, the system works on the basis that a proportion of possible slots are deliberately suppressed in the winter to aid resilience. So an airline can own a summer-only slot - but they still have to use it on 80% of possible dates between the end of March and the end of October.

There isn't a vast difference between summer and winter - current winter has 659 daily slot pairs, last summer had 688 daily slot pairs, but it is enough to account for a proportion of summer only services. There are very few ski routes except those operated by BA using slots at weekends freed by reducing the frequency on routes with mainly business traffic. In general ski flights (and most sun flights) leave from other London airports rather than LHR.

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