cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:01 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
GYY: No one flies there though it is reasonably close to The Loop in Chicago. Not to mention Northern Indiana and Southwest Michigan plus a good chunk of the Southern Chicago 'burbs. I could see DL Connection to ATL/MSP/DTW possibly, but again they are at MDW. Someone will eventually take a stab at it. G4?

G4 already exited GYY, I doubt they are going back. With their shift to larger cities, I think it is much more likely that they would enter MDW or ORD if they were to expand in the Chicago area.
 
yvphx
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:35 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:45 am

WestJet flies: YYC/YEG-AZA and YYX/YEG-PHX. The airports are only about 20 miles from each other.
 
User avatar
pylon101
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 am

It is a good question.
Moscow has three airports (SVO/UUEE, DME/UUDD, VKO/UUWW) and now they have added Zhukovsky (ZIA/UUBW).
So it makes four.
The traffic is close to 100 million pax. However, four international airports seem to be excessive.
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
phluser
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 am

deltadudejg wrote:
My question and search for everyone's opinions is. Could the mainline airlines justify flying into 2 seperate airports in the same city market. For example could Delta run flights from ATL-RSW and PGD, or ATL-TPA and PIE or MCO and SFB. If you look into certain areas of Europe, British for example has their hub out of LHR but also operates a secondary market out of LGW. Delta flies ATL-DFW and DAL. Could a similar approach be taken into more airport. Delta today operated 17 flights between ATL-MCO, 1 flight every hour, could they run half of that or even a quarter of that to SFB to get more seats into certain markets.


My thinking on why DL doesn't serve PIE, SFB and PGD:
TPA and PIE are not significantly far apart to make it worthwhile, and RSW to PGD serve too small of a region, of which it's traffic is derived from seasonal inbound tourism, to make it worthwhile. I used to wonder why no legacies serve SFB, though, as there is quite a distance between MCO and SFB. The north side of the Orlando region (e.g. Lake Mary) is closer to SFB. It's a growing area and with traffic in and around MCO, SFB would be a nice option. However, there is also DAB just 40 miles east as well, with DL. So, possibly DL's DAB presence ruins the possibility of it also covering SFB.

OzarkD9S wrote:

MDW: UA and AA both served MDW/ORD in the post-deregulation era, both have "retreated" to ORD leaving DL as the lone legacy serving both airports. Would AA or UA go back to MDW, gates permitting of course, and add flights to the other hubs?


I seriously doubt it'd be worth it. UA and AA have their investment at ORD and need their traffic flows through ORD and not diluted out of it's hub. DL doesn't have a CHI hub, so instead serves both airports, and keeps a MDW presence with short-hauls to MSP and DTW, it's hubs.

UA at DAL would make sense for it to cover DAL-SFO and other routes to UA hubs. But it's subleasing the gates now to WN for some cash. But AS and WN instead profit from DAL-SFO while UA is not involved. That sublease in itself seemed anti-competitive.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2225
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:28 am

airgeekteen wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
What is weird is that Atlanta, Georgia only has one airport with commercial service.
wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeKalb%E2 ... ee_Airport


Just barely though especially when compared to other large other metro areas with two or three airports.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:41 am

Most cities with multiple airports mentioned in this thread are really just planning disasters. Multiple airports in a metro area only make sense when the gross metropolitan product is well beyond half trillion dollars per year.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2257
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:14 am

UALifer wrote:
deltadudejg wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
A whole bunch of them do it today...just off the top of my head...AS will do it with SEA/PAE, HA in LAX and added LGB, DFW/DAL for a bunch of airlines I am sure...there are probably a bunch more


Didn't even think of the greater Seattle area. I was very surprised when AS announced all their new routes out of PAE. Which side note their new terminal will be beautiful. I'm just curious I guess as to why there hasn't been much more of this in Florida.


You probably don't see this happening in Florida because most of the markets skew heavily toward leisure passengers, who don't always have as strong of a preference on which airport they use; they just want a cheap fare. Therefore, airlines consolidate at one airport to keep their costs lower (and their fares lower).

Markets like NYC, the Bay Area, Chicago, etc have much more business traffic, and so it becomes important to serve multiple airports so that business customers can utilize their airport of choice.


Very true and it's why G4's split SFB/MCO operation didn't last very long...which I bet was a relief to SFB given G4 handle about 90% of SFB's traffic.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:36 am

Here is a list of metro areas where Southwest Airlines serves more than 1 commercial airport, along with the airports served by WN in each of these metro areas:
Greater Boston - BOS, PVD, MHT
Greater Los Angeles - LAX, BUR, SNA, ONT, LGB
Miami / Fort Lauderdale / West Palm Beach - FLL, PBI
Greater New York City - LGA, EWR, ISP
San Francisco Bay Area - SFO, OAK, SJC
Greater Seattle - SEA, PAE (future)
Washington, DC / Baltimore, MD - BWI, DCA, IAD

WN used to serve both IAH and HOU in Greater Houston, but WN pulled out of IAH in 2005, and WN now only serves HOU in Greater Houston. WN has also significantly expanded at HOU since pulling out of IAH.

WN used to serve both DTW and DET in Detroit, but WN pulled out of DET in 1993. DET is also no longer used as a commercial airport. WN still continues to serve Greater Detroit through DTW.
 
TWA1985
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:24 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:43 am

Delta does it at ORD and MDW. And I believe they’re the only one who do share both airports right now.
Be Young. Be Wild. Be Free.
 
User avatar
Jetsgo
Posts: 2736
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:31 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:51 am

BA has nonstop flights from London to SFO/OAK/SJC.
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
User avatar
AirIndia
Posts: 1256
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 2:43 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:33 am

Emirates flies to multiple airports in major cities:

London- LHR+LGW+STN(starting soon)
New York- JFK+EWR(starting non-stop soon)
Tokyo- NRT+HND
Istanbul- IST+SAW(restarting soon)
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6831
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:49 am

george77300 wrote:
Many airlines fly to both HND and NRT in Tokyo including ANA and Japan Airlines based at both.

London also a great example with airlines serving LHR and LGW. CX, FI and EK for example. Also EK will serve STN too soon. That’s 3 different airports in the same metro area. I bet no airlines serve more than that especially internationally and at a non hub city.

It's still odd to see 2 hubs of the same airline in the same city outside of mega cities like NYC, London, Tokyo, Sao Paulo, etc... But I believe London is still the only city to have 3 airports all be a hub for one airline (BA at LHR, LGW, & LCY).
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:53 am

fraspotter wrote:
WN serves every airport in the greater LA area (LAX, LGB, SNA, ONT, BUR)


So do DL and AA
 
deltadudejg
Topic Author
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:23 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:01 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
An interesting topic and I'm going purely domestic USA here:

MDW: UA and AA both served MDW/ORD in the post-deregulation era, both have "retreated" to ORD leaving DL as the lone legacy serving both airports. Would AA or UA go back to MDW, gates permitting of course, and add flights to the other hubs?

PIE: Midway Airlines (the first one) served both TPA and PIE for a brief period. I don't see any carrier serving both at this point.

AZA: The bastion of G4. F9 (?) served both briefly but again, see PIE.

SFB: G4 served both for a while, but consolidated at SFB. I don't see any of the US3 or WN serving both.

PHF/ORF: DL and AA serve both and they are about 30 miles apart as the crow flies. WN dumped PHF after the AirTran purchase and UA would only serve EWR and "maybe" IAD/ORD if they chose to return. Probably a long shot with UA.

PSP/ONT: WN sells ONT as near PSP, but if WN got into seasonal stations, I could possibly see WN there...maybe.

GYY: No one flies there though it is reasonably close to The Loop in Chicago. Not to mention Northern Indiana and Southwest Michigan plus a good chunk of the Southern Chicago 'burbs. I could see DL Connection to ATL/MSP/DTW possibly, but again they are at MDW. Someone will eventually take a stab at it. G4?


Can't forget F9 had a short stint through PIE where they served OMA and a second city which isn't coming to mind. They were run with the E190s
Aviation Enthusiast working in Airport Operations
 
deltadudejg
Topic Author
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:23 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:04 am

yvphx wrote:
WestJet flies: YYC/YEG-AZA and YYX/YEG-PHX. The airports are only about 20 miles from each other.


That was a political move because NewLeaf announced service to there, then WestJet announced and NewLeaf pulled.
Aviation Enthusiast working in Airport Operations
 
jplatts
Posts: 2764
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:53 am

TWA1985 wrote:
Delta does it at ORD and MDW. And I believe they’re the only one who do share both airports right now.


Other metro areas where DL serves more than 1 commercial airport include the following:
Boston - BOS, PVD, MHT
Cleveland - CLE and CAK
Dallas / Fort Worth - DFW and DAL
Houston - IAH and HOU
Los Angeles - LAX, BUR, SNA, LGB, ONT
Miami / Ft. Lauderdale / West Palm Beach - MIA, FLL, PBI
New York City - LGA (hub), JFK (hub), EWR, HPN, SWF
San Francisco Bay Area - SFO, OAK, SJC
Washington, DC / Baltimore, MD - DCA, IAD, BWI

The only airports that are currently served by WN but not by DL are AMA, CRP, ISP, LBB, and MAF. However, ISP is located in the same market as DL's LGA and JFK hubs, and DL does serve Long Island through its LGA and JFK hubs.
 
User avatar
AA777223
Posts: 1073
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:51 pm

max999 wrote:
zeke wrote:
CX flies to LHR/LGW, and JFK/EWR


I believe that NYC, London, and Tokyo are the only metro areas in the world that have multiple significant international airports. Each of these cities have massive O&D to support two airports that have a large number of overseas flights.

I believe Shanghai takes exception to that, with PVG and SHA both being quite sizeable.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175/190, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:19 pm

MU has a hub at both PVG and SHA.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:23 pm

I am kind of impressed at how separate operations are between BKK and DMK, but Scoot serves both Bangkok airports.

Given the road traffic, I'd think there'd at least be a small presence of ThaiSmile at DMK for people who want to get to the northern part of the city.
 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 1161
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:14 pm

As mentioned before, when it is the case, it targets different markets and/or different connection opportunities. CDG and ORY are both served by U2, VY, IB, BA, AZ, AT, AH to name a few.
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
xwb777
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:40 pm

Emirates to NRT and Haneda in Tokyo
 
USAOZ
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:40 am

JQ fly into MEL & AVV
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:03 am

While UA flies to secondary airports to its EWR, IAD, SFO and LAX hubs, it doesn't for IAH (HOU) and ORD (MDW/GYY, MKE doesn't count).
Seems for a while there were UA HOU-EWR and MDW-EWR.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
sq256
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:37 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:41 am

JQ: AVV and MEL
JQ/QF/QFLink and VA: BNE, OOL (100km south) and arguably MCY (109km north).
 
ACYYZA345
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:52 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:16 am

Both KE and OZ come to mind as they operate at both ICN and GMP. As mentioned before, Paris: ORY and CDG... London with LHR/LGW.
 
d8s
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:24 am

deltadudejg wrote:
My question and search for everyone's opinions is. Could the mainline airlines justify flying into 2 seperate airports in the same city market.


You mean WN flying in to LAX, BUR, LGB, SNA, and ONT?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 926
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 am

airportugal310 wrote:
A whole bunch of them do it today...just off the top of my head...AS will do it with SEA/PAE, HA in LAX and added LGB, DFW/DAL for a bunch of airlines I am sure...there are probably a bunch more


Only DL operates into both DFW and DAL in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex; DL also, IINM, is the only airline which serves both airports in Chicago - ORD and MDW.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 926
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:20 am

737max8 wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
737max8 wrote:
I mean everyone basically flies into like 10 airports in LA/SF areas combined. Of course it's feasible in cities/large collective metros with demand:

IAD/DCA/BWI
MIA/FLL/PBI
LGA/JFK/EWR
SFO/OAK/SJC
LAX/SNA/LGB/ONT/BUR

Then you have the weirder ones like

DFW/DAL
IAH/HOU
SEA/PAE


What is weird about Houston and DFW, they are bigger than some others your listed?


OP, Continental used to fly INTRAcity flights from Houston-Ellington to Houston IAH for many years, and for a time before that HOU to IAH.


Sorry, should have specified...the top areas are actually different cities really, while Dallas and Houston are the "same" city. Albeit gigantic ones.

PAE I guess is a separate city completely too, but that is way smaller than DAL or HOU


Sorry to get nitpicky, but DAL and DFW are not in the 'same city' as you claim. DAL is within the City of Dallas proper, while DFW straddles Dallas and Tarrant Counties west of the City of Dallas (specifically, DFW encompasses portions of the cities of Coppell, Euless, Grapevine and Irving).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:28 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
A whole bunch of them do it today...just off the top of my head...AS will do it with SEA/PAE, HA in LAX and added LGB, DFW/DAL for a bunch of airlines I am sure...there are probably a bunch more


Only DL operates into both DFW and DAL in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex; DL also, IINM, is the only airline which serves both airports in Chicago - ORD and MDW.


Alaska flies into both DFW and DAL.

Volaris flies into both ORD and MDW.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
USAOZ
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:49 am

sq256 wrote:
JQ: AVV and MEL
JQ/QF/QFLink and VA: BNE, OOL (100km south) and arguably MCY (109km north).
there was also some talk recently of some international airline that already flies to MEL, flying to AVV as well. FYI-MEL is virtually full most of the time, whereas AVV is very close, mainly used in past for QF maintenance, is empty, as far as commercial ops go. Bit further out of Melbourne CBD, so should suit LCC's, as am sure costs are much lower there.
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3547
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:14 am

How often do we see an airline show up on multiple airports on both ends, i.e. SFO-MDW/ORD and OAK-MDW/ORD? I can't imagine it's terribly common...
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3242
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:30 am

airportugal310 wrote:
A whole bunch of them do it today...just off the top of my head...AS will do it with SEA/PAE, HA in LAX and added LGB, DFW/DAL for a bunch of airlines I am sure...there are probably a bunch more


You missed the most obvious AA/DL/B6 at JFK/LGA/EWR & UA at LGA/EWR.
 
77H
Posts: 1460
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:30 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
While UA flies to secondary airports to its EWR, IAD, SFO and LAX hubs, it doesn't for IAH (HOU) and ORD (MDW/GYY, MKE doesn't count).
Seems for a while there were UA HOU-EWR and MDW-EWR.


I’m surprised UA has never gone back to serving MDW even from select business markets. While it is not inconvenient to get to the loop from ORD, MDW is closer and time is money as the saying goes. If I’m not mistaken DL does or did serve both ORD and MDW. It seems odd that DL can make the business case but Chicago’s hometown airline cannot.

77H
 
LPSHobby
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:59 pm

here in Belo Horizonte, the capital city of Minas Gerais State, Brazil, we have CNF in Confins for international/domestic routes and PLU for regional flights, PLU was reopened for national routes but it was closed again, turning to regional flights only, and now it was anounced that a private comapny will build a new airport in Betim, a big city in the metropolitan area of Belo Horizonte, so we will have 3 airports in the metropolitan area...
 
swacle
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:13 pm

STT757 wrote:
CO used to operate into Houston Hobby and offer connections even though they had their main hub at IAH. In the Summer of 1989 I connected through Hobby from LAX to EWR. LAX-HOU was a 733, HOU-EWR was a 727-200.


IIRC at one point it was possible to go from Ellington to Hobby via IAH on CO.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos