many321
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ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:25 pm

With the coming of China Airlines to ONT, the authority has authorized bids for their new International terminal. They plan to start building the terminal this year with completion in the first quarter of 2020.

https://www.whittierdailynews.com/2018/ ... xperience/
 
727200
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:22 pm

Why? Have any of these administrative geniuses taken a walk at ANY time of day or night ans seen the obvious. There are no customers in any of the concourses. People dont use this airport and there are more employees than passengers. Lets not even begin discussion on the IE and how it still hasnt recovered from recession. Also $80M is a 2-7 year fix, they will then want to build a new one. I guess it easy to spend money, when it isnt yours.
 
nine4nine
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:51 pm

What a waste of taxpayer money!! They have two fairly new terminals. One is used albeit not to its full potential and lacks any sort restaurant or bar, just a snack bar with cold pre packaged sandwiches and can of soda.

The second terminal if I’m correct has been shuttered for quite a few years and used mostly for movie and commercial props as well as the original old terminal being used for the same purposes.
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jetero
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:55 pm

nine4nine wrote:
What a waste of taxpayer money!! They have two fairly new terminals. One is used albeit not to its full potential and lacks any sort restaurant or bar, just a snack bar with cold pre packaged sandwiches and can of soda.

The second terminal if I’m correct has been shuttered for quite a few years and used mostly for movie and commercial props as well as the original old terminal being used for the same purposes.


With extraordinarily few exceptions, airports are not taxpayer-funded. ONT is certainly not. If you want to call it a waste, that's fine but don't say it's on the back of taxpayers. It'd be on the backs of airlines who hopefully would be able to pass the increase on to passengers in the form of higher fares. If not, well, you can do the math.
 
AirMatt
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:44 pm

Are the gates still blocked off on the far eastern side of terminals 2 & 4? Why couldn't those existing gates be converted for international arrivals, and build a customs facility attached to either terminal? Sure a new international terminal would be nice, but I think this could be a less expensive way to achieve a much better international arrival experience for customers.
 
questions
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:52 pm

Wasn’t ONT a booming airport at one time? Seems like there is so much potential. What happened? (I’m just looking for a quick summary, not a debate that hijacks the thread).
 
nine4nine
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:04 pm

questions wrote:
Wasn’t ONT a booming airport at one time? Seems like there is so much potential. What happened? (I’m just looking for a quick summary, not a debate that hijacks the thread).


Pre 9/11 yes. The 2 new terminals opened in 98. I attended the soft opening at ONT where WN flew in California One for display and walk thru and the airport threw one big party. Both terminals and ticketing areas were used pretty much at capacity once it officially opened, I remember on a few occasions what a zoo the place was when flying out of there.

That’s about the time the housing boom in the IE was happening, the economy was strong, fuel was really low and Airlines operated high frequencies from all LA area airports. You could see just about every US carrier tail there, then 9/11 happened and we all know what followed especially the economic crash of 09.
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flyingcat
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:05 pm

questions wrote:
Wasn’t ONT a booming airport at one time? Seems like there is so much potential. What happened? (I’m just looking for a quick summary, not a debate that hijacks the thread).


The financial crisis of 2007-2008 hit the Inland empire acutely. The area rode high on real estate values and has taken time to recover however the area still has among the lowest average salaries in the whole region.

The other, and really the reasons this expansion is occurring has to do with who ran the airport prior to it's current leadership. ONT used to be run by LAWA who runs LAX. The locals always felt that LAX was always the favored airport and carrier like G4 and F9 would have gone to ONT if LAX were not representing both airports.

There is some evidence that LAWA was oblivious to how things run. Costs for such things as cleaning and maintenance were documented as being absurdly high, LAWA always felt that combined as an entity things were ok and mostly blamed the region instead of their governance.. Given how well they run commercial operations at PMD I always felt they had little appetite to really care about ONT.
 
many321
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:05 pm

AirMatt wrote:
Are the gates still blocked off on the far eastern side of terminals 2 & 4? Why couldn't those existing gates be converted for international arrivals, and build a customs facility attached to either terminal? Sure a new international terminal would be nice, but I think this could be a less expensive way to achieve a much better international arrival experience for customers.


From what's mentioned in the article, the International terminal is going to be an extension of T2 since most passengers are going to check in at T2.. Customs are going to be on the first floor, departures on the second with three wide body gates, and an airline lounge on the third. As of what's on terminal at moment, CI is going to use the blocked gates at the far end of the terminal. They used them for the CI test flight. From what I see it seems they don't have the space for Customs that why they're going for the addition. Though, that's far better than going to that dingy terminal on far corner of the airport.
Last edited by many321 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:07 pm

Yes, it was. However, a number of factors have contributed to ONT's slowdown. In no particular order and I'm sure there are others, but here's what quickly comes to mind...


- Many airlines have preferred to send their metal to LAX due to better connections. Ont being inherently smaller simply doesn't have access to connecting passenger traffic the way the LAX does.
- LAWA allegedly favored LAX over ONT in any number of ways, growing LAX while deemphasizing ONT. This is open for debate and many don't give it credence, while others do. For myself, I do think there is a kernel of truth in there, but perhaps not as much as others.
- The Great Recession really savaged the Inland Empire's economy. The area was always a bit economically tender and lower income in general, so the recession slowed demand for travel from ONT. It still hasn't really fully recovered.

The bottom line is that its a great airport, but its had some issues. I do believe it can serve as an alternative to LAX and SNA in many cases but time will tell. Here's hoping!
 
nine4nine
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:07 pm

On a side note I think with the demographics of th IE (inland empire for those who don’t know to what we LA locals refer too it as) would be perfect for a NK west coast hub. I’ve been very surprised the past few years they haven’t scooped up the vacant Terminal 1 and built a fortress out of it.
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SANFan
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:18 pm

It seems to me there's no problem with starting the process of planning/building a new int'l arrivals terminal at ONT but I would take it nice and slow. I feel their time frame is much quicker than it needs to be; one new int'l flag carrier announcing service might be it for a long time. Then ONT will be stuck with ANOTHER beautiful nice terminal lacking one minor ingredient -- passengers!

But maybe they know things that the rest of us don't. (Only they know the interest there is by other cx wanting to start flying internationally into this airport -- perhaps there's a very long list!...)

"Build it and they will come" might work, but then again, it's not guaranteed!

bb
 
iahcsr
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:42 pm

As a former resident of the IE (Inland Empire btw) When the new terminals were built it was always planned a third would be built between them when needed. (Hence the reason the existing are T2 and T4) Building this FIS on the east end of T2 fits perfectly into this plan. If/when the demand ever does take place, T3 will just fill the remaining open gap.
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bzcat
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:15 pm

I'm not sure the expense of a new FIS building annex is going to pencil out but I certainly understand ONT's predicament... can't grow the international service unless you have the facilities. A bit of chicken or eggs.
 
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janders
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:28 pm

For starters nothing is firm, as the airport is simply soliciting design ideas.

However the real crazy part is what is being kicked around is for merely a short term (article says to 7 years) facility connected to T-2 that will cost in range of $70-80mil. Downline they want to build a real terminal which surely will be hundreds of millions at this rate.

Imagine that massive burden that airlines will have to cover for simply a temporary facility! Thats over $50/pax assuming 800 or so international daily passengers over 7 years assuming no additional debt burden or charges.

I think the board at ONT have already lost the plot with their concepts of grandeur!

(Oh for reference sake the entire new terminal and other facilities like new parking structure in LGB cost $45mil)
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Dominion301
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:32 pm

It could be that ONT management knows something the rest of us don't. Norwegian at ONT seems like an eventual no-brainer if you examine the fact that they fly to OAK for example.
 
cynlb
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:21 pm

Don't forget the Olympics is coming to LA in 2028
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:10 pm

LAX certainly isn't for everybody. Gamblers and shoppers alike may appreciate ONT's proximity to the Morongo casino and Cabazon outlet malls. Nature enthusiasts will find themselves a lot closer to places like Joshua Tree National Park and Lake Arrowhead if using ONT rather than LAX. Folks headed to the Palm Springs area - be it for family friendly resorts, golfing, or major events like Coachella - might just love to have the option of catching a nonstop flight into ONT. I think this airport has tremendous potential, and I'm very glad to see the folks in charge working hard to establish this underutilized facility as a viable secondary intercontinental gateway to Greater Los Angeles!
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many321
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:26 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
It could be that ONT management knows something the rest of us don't. Norwegian at ONT seems like an eventual no-brainer if you examine the fact that they fly to OAK for example.


Can't find the article, though last Friday they had a meeting with several goverment members of the community and spoke about an airline, specifically one from Europe coming to ONT. Though, they will make a formal announcement later this year. Perhaps its Norwegian or someone else.
 
upwardfacing
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:26 pm

janders wrote:
I think the board at ONT have already lost the plot with their concepts of grandeur!


Grandeur is an excellent word to describe the current state of mind.

A number of people would like to see more service to the airport. Even LAX and SNA users might like to see less unneeded traffic flowing their way.

The ONT authorities are, however, in ether mode with dreams of intercontinental flights, when actually more bread-and-butter domestic flights to key hubs would be of much greater value. (See recent local reporting.)

Their belief seems to be that international flights will elicit greater interest on the part of domestic carriers. Meanwhile ONT is actually losing a couple of international services: BJX-ONT-BJX (Volaris) and GDL-ONT-GDL (Aeromexico). The other service to GDL on Volaris remains.

The other element of grandeur lies in the name. The "Ontario" name is a simply terrible and confusing. Try searching "ontario airport" and you will get results not only from the Province of Ontario but also Ontario County in New York State.

Not a great way to market a SoCal airport to the outside world.
 
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ual747den
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 pm

I was in and out of ONT a lot when ExpressJet had their branded operation going and even then with all the XE traffic it was never really busy, I cannot imagine why they would spend so much money on something that isn't really needed. Other than those stupid traffic cops outside that will write you a ticket for jaywalking to get to the parking lot its a pretty nice little set up but I really don't see the need for more space.
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BWIAirport
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:42 pm

How many airlines are clawing at the door to ONT to begin international service? Their top priority should absolutely be marketing. They need to sell themselves as a legitimate Los Angeles airport and a solid alternative to LAX before anything can happen.
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RainerBoeing777
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:42 am

Since China Airlines took the first big step with the TPE-ONT route using a Boeing 777-300ER, I think that over time more airlines will be added like British Airways, Air France via Joon, Japan Airlines, All Nippon Airways, Korean Air, Air China & Cathay Pacific
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iahcsr
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:08 am

Everyone please keep in mind this is not a done deal by any means. They are simply planning for potential future needs. If/when conditions warrant things are in place for a faster go ahead. This FIS area is temporary in the sense that it will suffice until such a time as it decided T3 needs to be built. T3 would then be the “permanent” international terminal and this “temporary” area will be incorporated into T3 or converted for domestic use for T2.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
2travel2know2
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:29 am

Do neither ONT terminals have spare room to squeeze a Port of Entry facility with immigration and customs?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
727200
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:36 am

Having flown out of there on a number of occasions i will say, you could close one, or both of the terminals and make it strictly FIS and the loss of terminal, gates, or facilities would not be missed. The shops are closed, there are no passengers, and the place is a ghost town. Its a waste to spend more money after bad and 'hope' some carrier that flies in the world will suddenly use ONT.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:40 am

Interesting if they pull it off.

Image

Same for the airlines too; heck, if CI can pull this off, then who knows how may might follow.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a secondary mainland Chinese carrier follow suit.
I mean, why not? ....can't be any worse than charging $400 all-in for a nonstop from LAX.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
strfyr51
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:28 am

ONT might be Prime realaestate as LAX, SNA, and Bur anre all AT or near Capacity and there's nowhere to Build another Airport with the SoCal NIMBY's.
If you've noticed the upgrades to I-10 from Indio to the I-210/I-10 split were put in place JUST for this eventuality
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FX1816
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:41 am

nine4nine wrote:
questions wrote:
Wasn’t ONT a booming airport at one time? Seems like there is so much potential. What happened? (I’m just looking for a quick summary, not a debate that hijacks the thread).


Pre 9/11 yes. The 2 new terminals opened in 98. I attended the soft opening at ONT where WN flew in California One for display and walk thru and the airport threw one big party. Both terminals and ticketing areas were used pretty much at capacity once it officially opened, I remember on a few occasions what a zoo the place was when flying out of there.

That’s about the time the housing boom in the IE was happening, the economy was strong, fuel was really low and Airlines operated high frequencies from all LA area airports. You could see just about every US carrier tail there, then 9/11 happened and we all know what followed especially the economic crash of 09.


Pre 9/11? Hmm, the busiest years were between 9/11 and 2007/8.
 
cynlb
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:48 pm

ONT customs will be open longer hours for TPE service
https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/02/0 ... s-arrival/
 
shintaenam
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:25 pm

When, Chongqing, the largest city in the world, with 30 millions of population - 10% of the total population of US, handling majority of the travelling through ONE international airports. There is no reason for Los Angeles, a small suburban town with much smaller population, having more than one airport. This is a totally a case of serious collisions between corrupted entities. A waste of public money and it seriously damaging the global environment.
 
tcaeyx
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:41 pm

shintaenam wrote:
When, Chongqing, the largest city in the world, with 30 millions of population - 10% of the total population of US, handling majority of the travelling through ONE international airports. There is no reason for Los Angeles, a small suburban town with much smaller population, having more than one airport. This is a totally a case of serious collisions between corrupted entities. A waste of public money and it seriously damaging the global environment.


For starters, this "small suburban town" has a GDP 3x greater than that of Chongqing, and the corresponding demand for travel. Population doesn't mean everything; by your metric, London (with its population of 13 million) should be served by a regional airport.
 
Dominion301
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:48 pm

shintaenam wrote:
When, Chongqing, the largest city in the world, with 30 millions of population - 10% of the total population of US, handling majority of the travelling through ONE international airports. There is no reason for Los Angeles, a small suburban town with much smaller population, having more than one airport. This is a totally a case of serious collisions between corrupted entities. A waste of public money and it seriously damaging the global environment.


Since when is a metro population of 16 million 'a small suburban town'? LOL!,

I guess then my tiny outpost village of 1.4 million doesn't even warrant an airport.
 
bzcat
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:44 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Since China Airlines took the first big step with the TPE-ONT route using a Boeing 777-300ER, I think that over time more airlines will be added like British Airways, Air France via Joon, Japan Airlines, All Nippon Airways, Korean Air, Air China & Cathay Pacific


I don't see any of that happening. CI is pretty much a unique case for ONT in that it has a sizable frequent flyer base located nearby. And the FF surveyed by CI said they would use such a flight. None of the airlines you mentioned will have any customers for ONT service. CA is the only maybe on your list.

2travel2know2 wrote:
Do neither ONT terminals have spare room to squeeze a Port of Entry facility with immigration and customs?


Not really. You need sterile space for FIS and customs so everything has to be duplicated and segregated from non-sterile secured area - from hallways to luggage belts to toilets. The gates also have to be reconfigured to allow direct entrance to sterile area.
 
r2rho
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:27 pm

When, Chongqing, the largest city in the world, with 30 millions of population - 10% of the total population of US, handling majority of the travelling through ONE international airports. There is no reason for Los Angeles, a small suburban town with much smaller population, having more than one airport. This is a totally a case of serious collisions between corrupted entities. A waste of public money and it seriously damaging the global environment.

what I wonder about LA is exactly the opposite: how a metropolitan area of 16 million and with that GDP cannot manage to have two international airports, and instead forces everyone through the outdated patchwork of terminals that is LAX. Paris, London, NY, Moscow, Tokyo, etc all have at least two intl gateways. Why does this not work in LA, particularly with LAX being capacity restricted?
 
iahcsr
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:12 pm

r2rho wrote:
When, Chongqing, the largest city in the world, with 30 millions of population - 10% of the total population of US, handling majority of the travelling through ONE international airports. There is no reason for Los Angeles, a small suburban town with much smaller population, having more than one airport. This is a totally a case of serious collisions between corrupted entities. A waste of public money and it seriously damaging the global environment.

what I wonder about LA is exactly the opposite: how a metropolitan area of 16 million and with that GDP cannot manage to have two international airports, and instead forces everyone through the outdated patchwork of terminals that is LAX. Paris, London, NY, Moscow, Tokyo, etc all have at least two intl gateways. Why does this not work in LA, particularly with LAX being capacity restricted?

It’s been that way because the Department that runs the airports in LA ( which until recently included ONT) wanted it that way. Whether their reasons were practical or political, or a bit of both, I don’t know. Now that the city of Ontario runs ONT they will work much harder to entice business there than the LA people had ever done.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
pasu129
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:09 pm

It would be a nice addition to Int'l flights from Far East to SoCal. There are a lot of Asian population on East of DTLA, and traveling to LAX from East LA isn't the easiest at most times.

I don't see it replaces most China ops in LAX, however, more of an addition option.
Viva Las Vegas
 
bzcat
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Re: ONT taking design bids for their new International terminal.

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:04 pm

r2rho wrote:
[
what I wonder about LA is exactly the opposite: how a metropolitan area of 16 million and with that GDP cannot manage to have two international airports, and instead forces everyone through the outdated patchwork of terminals that is LAX. Paris, London, NY, Moscow, Tokyo, etc all have at least two intl gateways. Why does this not work in LA, particularly with LAX being capacity restricted?


Because LAX is actually not capacity restricted and the "patchwork of terminals" works best for primarily O&D travel which is what makes LAX different than most large cities. There is relatively very little transit traffic at LAX compare to Paris, London, NYC, Moscow, Tokyo, and many others.

BTW, the whole notion that multiple international airports is somehow a sign of economic prowess seems rather ridiculous. LA has one big airport because it was properly designed to handle the traffic volume. Why do we need two or more?

Paris, London, NYC, Moscow, Tokyo all have slot controls at the main airport because the main airport is those cities are hemmed in by urban development, which means there is a capacity issue so they have to have a 2nd or 3rd airport to handle long haul flights. LAX has 4 parallel runways and no weather delays... its design capacity is way above some of the main airports in other cities. Any airline can apply to begin service to LAX as long as they have traffic rights. There is no slots, no auctions, no problems. It is only recently that the airport has come close to peak terminal capacity that was artificially capped to placate NIMBYs. The cap has been lifted and the airport is adding new concourses and gates to accommodate more service.

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