Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
IrishAyes wrote:I feel like ICN-EWR is a gaping hole in the network that OZ ought to serve.
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planemanofnz wrote:A number of long-haul destinations ex-ICN have no service at all.
planemanofnz wrote:ICN - AKL is a good example (on which KE flies its 748s) - not only is AKL a Star Alliance hub...
DWC wrote:planemanofnz wrote:ICN - AKL is a good example (on which KE flies its 748s) - not only is AKL a Star Alliance hub...
*A Hub where to ? WLG ? NAN ? EZE ?
OZ already has Oz covered
planemanofnz wrote:DWC wrote:planemanofnz wrote:ICN - AKL is a good example (on which KE flies its 748s) - not only is AKL a Star Alliance hub...
*A Hub where to ? WLG ? NAN ? EZE ?
OZ already has Oz covered
Yes, mainly a hub to the rest of New Zealand:
- AKL has double the Korean population of BNE / MEL, and ~4-5x that of cities like PER
- Korean arrivals to New Zealand grew by more than 8% in the past year, and tourism by 9%
- Korea has the most unserved demand for travel to AKL of anywhere (as per AKL Airport)
- KE sustains the 748 to AKL during summer, without any New Zealand connections at all
Ultimately, AKL offers relevant Star Alliance connections to OZ (both domestic and international), such as CHC (OZ considered charter flights there in 2016), EZE (with one of the biggest Korea-towns in Latin America), and NAN (where many Koreans go, as per the continued success of KE's service there).![]()
Cheers,
C.
airbazar wrote:planemanofnz wrote:BOS hello!A number of long-haul destinations ex-ICN have no service at all.![]()
*A needs an Asian route from BOS and ICN is the most obvious hole from BOS.
NickolayAv wrote:airbazar wrote:planemanofnz wrote:BOS hello!A number of long-haul destinations ex-ICN have no service at all.![]()
*A needs an Asian route from BOS and ICN is the most obvious hole from BOS.
Although I do agree that ICN is a huge hole for BOS I think KE will be the airline that will launch service. Oneworld dominates the BOS-Asia market and neither Skyteam or *A have BOS-Asia flights, but KE (Skyteam) will probably have the upper hand to launch BOS service, because of the recent JV with DL, which would allow for more connecting passengers, and Delta's presence in Boston. The only way I could see OZ launching BOS service is if they want to only count on O/D passengers or a possible partnership with B6, which is unlikely.
wedgetail737 wrote:You all forget that KE once served BOS-ICN and dropped it. I think they would be a little gunshy to come back.
ZK-NBT wrote:KE then drops to 4-5 weekly 77W in winter to AKL so a seasonal summer service might be a good start.
planemanofnz wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:KE then drops to 4-5 weekly 77W in winter to AKL so a seasonal summer service might be a good start.
![]()
Seasonal to AKL (and/or MEL) might also be good for aircraft utilisation, if OZ decides to launch more charter and/or seasonal European services.
Cheers,
C.
smi0006 wrote:I agree, ICN is a significant hole for MEL- KE tried maybe 7-8 years ago 3 weekly. But they couldn’t get it to work, Victoria and the Korean market has grown since then, not to mention Melbourne Airport is far more keen to incentivise new carriers. Timed correctly I feel MEL could work. Especially with SYD supporting an A380 each from KE and OZ. 3-4 weekly 332 from OZ would be sustainable and allow connections to NZ freeing up seats to SYD for SYD bound Pax.
planemanofnz wrote:DWC wrote:planemanofnz wrote:ICN - AKL is a good example (on which KE flies its 748s) - not only is AKL a Star Alliance hub...
*A Hub where to ? WLG ? NAN ? EZE ?
OZ already has Oz covered
Yes, mainly a hub to the rest of New Zealand:
- AKL has double the Korean population of BNE / MEL, and ~4-5x that of cities like PER
- Korean arrivals to New Zealand grew by more than 8% in the past year, and tourism by 9%
- Korea has the most unserved demand for travel to AKL of anywhere (as per AKL Airport)
- KE sustains the 748 to AKL during summer, without any New Zealand connections at all
Ultimately, AKL offers relevant Star Alliance connections to OZ (both domestic and international), such as CHC (OZ considered charter flights there in 2016), EZE (with one of the biggest Korea-towns in Latin America), and NAN (where many Koreans go, as per the continued success of KE's service there).![]()
Cheers,
C.
RyanairGuru wrote:This is misleading as it implies that MEL has a comparably sized Korean population as BNE, whereas Brisbane is significantly larger.
planemanofnz wrote:smi0006 wrote:I agree, ICN is a significant hole for MEL- KE tried maybe 7-8 years ago 3 weekly. But they couldn’t get it to work, Victoria and the Korean market has grown since then, not to mention Melbourne Airport is far more keen to incentivise new carriers. Timed correctly I feel MEL could work. Especially with SYD supporting an A380 each from KE and OZ. 3-4 weekly 332 from OZ would be sustainable and allow connections to NZ freeing up seats to SYD for SYD bound Pax.
KE only dropped MEL in 2013, so it was not that long ago (certainly not 7-8 years ago, as you say).
Do also remember that Victoria's Korean population is smaller than Queensland's or New Zealand's.
Further, in terms of business and commerce:
- Most Korean companies have their regional HQ in SYD, not MEL (like Hyundai, LG and Samsung).
- Most Melbourne-based companies, like ANZ and BHP have a minimal presence within South Korea.
Victoria also lacks the tourism appeal of Queensland and New Zealand, for Korean package holidays.
That being said, a few factors could help OZ with a MEL service, which KE did not have or execute:
- Costs would be lower now, with oil lower than in 2013, and more fuel-efficient planes being available.
- The flight could be lower-risk, if served seasonally only, and/or served with a tag to the likes of CHC.
Cheers,
C.
NZ321 wrote:For hubbing and premium yields a year round service would work better with seasonal fluctuation.
IndianicWorld wrote:MEL ... The one thing to think about is just how markets develop over time.
planemanofnz wrote:NZ321 wrote:For hubbing and premium yields a year round service would work better with seasonal fluctuation.
I agree, but the problem is that the market is highly seasonal - in response to your points:
- Hubbing: IMO, the service would be mainly O&D, with few onward international connections (Korea - New Zealand tourism is strong enough).
- Premium yield: NZ / OZ would still be able to charge a premium on ICN - AKL, given the non-stop offering, and Star Alliance FFP base loyalty.
In time, the route may come to be year-round, but a seasonal flight would be a good start.IndianicWorld wrote:MEL ... The one thing to think about is just how markets develop over time.
I totally agree - markets do change, and Korean - Australian tourism is growing - I do hope that KE and/or OZ can make MEL - ICN work.
For this route, what has actually changed though? All I can find is the opening of a Victorian Government Business Office in Seoul, in 2014.
Although tourism growth is strong, QLD (which only supports 4x flights pw part-year) has about 60% more Korean visitors than MEL / VIC.
See: http://www.tourism.australia.com/conten ... 002899.pdf.
I would love to be proven wrong - an option might be for KE / OZ to extend a MEL flight to New Zealand (CHC or WLG), as CI do / SQ will?
Cheers,
C.
NickolayAv wrote:airbazar wrote:planemanofnz wrote:BOS hello!A number of long-haul destinations ex-ICN have no service at all.![]()
*A needs an Asian route from BOS and ICN is the most obvious hole from BOS.
Although I do agree that ICN is a huge hole for BOS I think KE will be the airline that will launch service. Oneworld dominates the BOS-Asia market and neither Skyteam or *A have BOS-Asia flights, but KE (Skyteam) will probably have the upper hand to launch BOS service, because of the recent JV with DL, which would allow for more connecting passengers, and Delta's presence in Boston. The only way I could see OZ launching BOS service is if they want to only count on O/D passengers or a possible partnership with B6, which is unlikely.
planemanofnz wrote:A number of long-haul destinations ex-ICN have no service at all.
Many of these cities are Star Alliance hubs and/or high yielding:
- MAN
Given these, there will definitely be room for OZ long-haul growth.
airbazar wrote:NickolayAv wrote:airbazar wrote:BOS hello!![]()
*A needs an Asian route from BOS and ICN is the most obvious hole from BOS.
Although I do agree that ICN is a huge hole for BOS I think KE will be the airline that will launch service. Oneworld dominates the BOS-Asia market and neither Skyteam or *A have BOS-Asia flights, but KE (Skyteam) will probably have the upper hand to launch BOS service, because of the recent JV with DL, which would allow for more connecting passengers, and Delta's presence in Boston. The only way I could see OZ launching BOS service is if they want to only count on O/D passengers or a possible partnership with B6, which is unlikely.
I agree entirely with what you're saying but KE has had more than enough time to make a decision and for some reason they've stayed away. Even their low density A332 would work here, I think and they've had that in their fleet for 10 years. At this point I'm starting to think that KE will never return to BOS. Either way I think the traffic would be predominantly O&D on the BOS side so it's a toss up between KE and OZ. I happen to think that both *A and SkyT need and Asian connection from BOS. For how long can they leave it all to OW?
IndianicWorld wrote:From numbers I have seen though, tourism, the local Korean population and business links have all grown in the past few years.
aerokiwi wrote:Having flown 4 flights with OZ recently (A380 and A330 services) one word sums them up - meh. Mediocre everything with an overwhelming presence of greige.
Terrible meals. Limited IFE. Characterless in every other way. Perhaps they could work on that first.
HeeseokKoo wrote:There are quite a few AUS/NZ enthusiasm here. AUS/NZ tourism was a boom to Koreans like 10-15 years ago, but the boom disappeared. Recent slow recoveries might not enough to justify launching additional routes. OZ used to fly AKL when down there was still popular but no more. KE used to fly more than 2 747s to AKL every day. Sadly, as long as TV news keeps talking about racism related incidents at AUS, the boom won't come back.
Longhaul tourism has been very trendy in Korea, and that's why we cannot predict where OZ will launch 3 or 5 years later. Greece/Turkey was popular a few years ago; now it's Italy/Spain. The trend simply follows popular TV shows. Recently there was a very emotional TV program shot in DUB, which will bring some tourism in the next few years. Apparently these mostly-group & some individual tourism based market brings more money than traditional VFR+business routes for OZ, partially because it's not easy to compete with Chinese airlines on TPAC routes and business demands take KE mostly. I bet we'll see a few more surprising European 'trendy' routes like VCE before one of those established star alliance hubs.
Asiana focusing on longhaul is because of LCC floods in Korea as OP mentioned. Asiana needs to work fast before a longhaul LCC is born.aerokiwi wrote:Having flown 4 flights with OZ recently (A380 and A330 services) one word sums them up - meh. Mediocre everything with an overwhelming presence of greige.
Terrible meals. Limited IFE. Characterless in every other way. Perhaps they could work on that first.
Totally agree for F or C class. But when it comes to Y, Asiana still wows me and that's because many other airlines have gone to the bottom.
smi0006 wrote:I know SYD is where the Korean market is at, and whilst KE has tried Melbourne I still feel there is potential for a 3-5 weekly ICN service to MEL also. Perhaps in the next 5yrs or so.
RainerBoeing777 wrote:... other destinations such as Auckland
RainerBoeing777 wrote:and other destinations such as Auckland, Cairo, Mumbai, Edinburgh and Manchester
aerokiwi wrote:Asiana is a spectacularly ordinary airline. It has a long way to go in terms of inflight offering, I'd argue it's on par with the Chienese carriers. Maybe they should focus on improving that first.
janders wrote:Asiana hosted event in LA for travel agents the other week and said they were planning a 3rd daily LAX service in addition to existing double daily A380.
Talk about lots of capacity in the market with KE also having its double daily A380 aervice.