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ahj2000
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:35 pm

OP, you sound a little...crazy.

Blerg wrote:
Interesting. From what I've heard Zurich and Munich have been extremely popular transfer hubs for Milan. If Air Italy does keep on expanding as they promised to, this might affect both Swiss and Lufthansa quite a bit.

I couldn’t help but to wonder what it would do for Lufthansa in Munich either. They do send a lot of pax to Milan, and recently unveiled a huge lounge revamp there.
However, the hub will Be at Malpensa and not Linate. Can’t help but to wonder if that will be in the decisions of some businessmen/women.
-Andrés Juánez
 
VolvoBus
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:47 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:55 pm

Jetty wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
How much can Qatar invest and control not to breach the EU laws?
I guess quite a lot, given the antecedents of AB and AZ.
At some point there will be a limit, though?

They can invest as much as they’d like l, but only control 50% -1 of the voting rights. There are many ways to invest without it having an impact on shares, loans from one company to the other i.e.


I have this vague recollection of a German cargo airline that was de facto owned by Volga Dnepr. It lost money, which Volga Dnepr was happy to lend to it, presumably for the EU presence. Eventually, either the EU or the Germans shut it down on the grounds that Volga Dnepr was such a large creditor that it could (as it actually was doing) exercise control. Does anybody else remember this ?
 
TATLTALE
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:33 pm

While there is a lot of interesting speculation about Meridiana/Air Italy, this is really just that at this point. They are entering a crowded marketplace, in which loyalties are shifting and major players (AF/KL, LH group, etc.) have a tremendous head start. While I do wish them the best, I don't see the new Air Italy becoming anything like what the OP has envisioned in the near term, or even the moderately longer term, if at all. What is the case for connections such as the ones proposed, other than them being personally interesting? Molto fumo, niente arrosto...
Oh stewardess, I speak jive
 
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SQ22
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Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:52 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
Jetty wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
How much can Qatar invest and control not to breach the EU laws?
I guess quite a lot, given the antecedents of AB and AZ.
At some point there will be a limit, though?

They can invest as much as they’d like l, but only control 50% -1 of the voting rights. There are many ways to invest without it having an impact on shares, loans from one company to the other i.e.


I have this vague recollection of a German cargo airline that was de facto owned by Volga Dnepr. It lost money, which Volga Dnepr was happy to lend to it, presumably for the EU presence. Eventually, either the EU or the Germans shut it down on the grounds that Volga Dnepr was such a large creditor that it could (as it actually was doing) exercise control. Does anybody else remember this ?


Off topic: This was Air Cargo Germany (6U).
 
VolvoBus
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:47 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:00 pm

SQ22 wrote:
VolvoBus wrote:
Jetty wrote:
They can invest as much as they’d like l, but only control 50% -1 of the voting rights. There are many ways to invest without it having an impact on shares, loans from one company to the other i.e.


I have this vague recollection of a German cargo airline that was de facto owned by Volga Dnepr. It lost money, which Volga Dnepr was happy to lend to it, presumably for the EU presence. Eventually, either the EU or the Germans shut it down on the grounds that Volga Dnepr was such a large creditor that it could (as it actually was doing) exercise control. Does anybody else remember this ?


Off topic: This was Air Cargo Germany (6U).


My point is that control does not necessarily require> 50% shareholding.
 
F9flyer
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:11 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:24 pm

So no Domestic Italian Flights? Just setting up as a long to medium range haul out of Milan?
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

Re: It’s official! Meridiana rebranded as Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:43 pm

gzm wrote:
There we go,again! Bathroom tiles! How uninspiring! What does it have to do with an airline sign?
"We see the world differently". I see the same lack of inspiration allll over again......
It seems they asked from the designing team: look guys, we want a sign that shows the transition from "M" to "ly".


Terrazzo, eh? I fully expected airplanes with a gondola on the tail or on the body, done up in red and green and looking like the Provencal Carterton.
 
YIMBY
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:13 pm

Jetty wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
How much can Qatar invest and control not to breach the EU laws?
I guess quite a lot, given the antecedents of AB and AZ.
At some point there will be a limit, though?

They can invest as much as they’d like l, but only control 50% -1 of the voting rights. There are many ways to invest without it having an impact on shares, loans from one company to the other i.e.


The rule is not only about shares or votes, but about control. There are many ways to control without buying shares.
An who in her fair senses would invest without any control?

(Yes, I am against ownership rules and support full cabotage rights for every decent airline)
 
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VCEflyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:12 pm

F9flyer wrote:
So no Domestic Italian Flights? Just setting up as a long to medium range haul out of Milan?


Yes feeder flights to and from Catania Lamezia Naples and Rome
 
Jetty
Posts: 1305
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Future and expansion of Air Italy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:23 pm

YIMBY wrote:
Jetty wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
How much can Qatar invest and control not to breach the EU laws?
I guess quite a lot, given the antecedents of AB and AZ.
At some point there will be a limit, though?

They can invest as much as they’d like l, but only control 50% -1 of the voting rights. There are many ways to invest without it having an impact on shares, loans from one company to the other i.e.


The rule is not only about shares or votes, but about control. There are many ways to control without buying shares.
An who in her fair senses would invest without any control?

While there are exceptions, in general a majority of the voting rights means control. Also the EU law regarding this issue is quite vague and a case that clearly defines it's reach has never made it to court, so for now no one has the definite answer about how it should be interpreted.

Some control is definitely allowed, and that suffices for many investors. DL recently invested in KL/AF i.e., while it definitely doesn't have full control.
 
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VCEflyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: It’s official! Meridiana rebranded as Air Italy

Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:32 am

Waterbomber wrote:
A fleet of 20 new or nearly new B789's sounds promising but IMO it will never happen.
It sounds like some of the promises that EY made when they took over AZ.
Just read through the PR in 2014... it s almost exactly copy paste except that AAB dreams bigger.

I also don't see all those MAX's delivered to AIT. The mere fact that they want to use brand new high capital cost aircraft for a highly seasonal market proves that they don't know what they're doing.

Also, since AAB is such an outspoken critic, I would say that the livery is wrong. More specifically, the fluo green is wrong.

Also, there's nothing Italian about Air Italy since its entire shareholding is in foreign hands even on paper. Makes you wonder about traffic rights to/from Italy.
So no, it cant be an Italian flag carrier.

I'll give this operation 3 years max.



Air Italy has exclusive flying rights to Accra and Lagos which are pretty stron destinations.
Also Alitalia s planes are all Irish registered.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: It’s official! Meridiana rebranded as Air Italy

Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:44 am

According to airfleets.com not all of the Alitalia fleet are Irish registered as some still retain an Italian registration including several A320/321 and I believe a single B777.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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VCEflyboy
Topic Author
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Re: It’s official! Meridiana rebranded as Air Italy

Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:29 am

They only have a single 777. The Italian registered are old from old AZ
 
FermiParadox
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: It’s official! Meridiana rebranded as Air Italy

Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:54 pm

Does anyone have an idea of who the "previous manager from AB" who is rumored to be the new CEO?

As I see it, Stefan Pichler is at RJ as CEO and has been there for less than a year.

Thomas Winkelmann seems an unlikely candidate, given his ties to LH and a seeming lack of ties to QR.

Julio Rodriguez (former COO) is at IAG now, and less than a year, so that seems unlikely.

Could it be former AB Chief Strategy and Planning Officer John Shepley? He worked for AZ, AB, and EY so he could be a good fit in regards to understanding Italy and Middle East carriers.

Other than that, I think of Goetz Ahmelmann, who is still at AB but I think was in the process of being fired by EY.

Who else could it be? Hunold ain't coming back, is he?
 
Blerg
Posts: 4175
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: It’s official! Meridiana rebranded as Air Italy

Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:36 pm

Never understood why airlines hire top managers from other failed airlines. Is there really a case when someone who came from a bankrupted carrier did a good job elsewhere?

The only one I know is Gauss who moved from Malev to run airBaltic though he was fired a few years before the airline actually went under.
 
FermiParadox
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: It’s official! Meridiana rebranded as Air Italy

Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:41 pm

Blerg wrote:
Never understood why airlines hire top managers from other failed airlines. Is there really a case when someone who came from a bankrupted carrier did a good job elsewhere?

The only one I know is Gauss who moved from Malev to run airBaltic though he was fired a few years before the airline actually went under.


The people I listed came in to AB already after it was so far in the tank it was a basket case. Pichler did a really good job with Jazeera and Fiji so his credentials are pretty good, just as an example. A lot of the others named worked at Lufthansa in higher up positions so presumably they're also talented.

Generally once you get to a higher level, the only way to continue to climb the ladder is to take a "step down" in prestige. Big risk, big reward. If Pichler saved AB, he'd be known as a genius.

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