LHRFlyer
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Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:35 pm

A couple of weeks ago Virgin Atlantic ran a promotion giving away 50 pairs of economy tickets to Miami at London’s Waterloo train station.

Virgin are now offering a reward seat sale for LHR-MIA for mid February - March:

https://www.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/fl ... -sale.html

This is supposed to be peak season for Miami so it’s odd that Virgin are discounting reward seats.
 
anstar
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:48 pm

I think longer term VS will be struggling across the board. They are predicted to make a decent loss for the last financial year. Given the economy is doing reasonably well and fuel is down that can't be sustainable in the long term. They really seem to have struggled since LHR and the bermuda II agreement was scrapped with losses in most years wiping out any profits made in their 30 odd year history. LHR slots are already mortgaged so not many assets either.
 
Eirules
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:06 pm

I think part of their problem is that they are getting almost no connections at LHR so relying on point to point or those connecting onto DL flights in the USA, many of which are served by BA, LH and to an increasing extent Norwegian & Aer Lingus. Little red failed miserably and if the recent ex DUB business sale is anything to go by, €1200 return to NYC, BOS, LAS, WAS etc they must be struggling

Added to that is the fact they are not in an alliance whereas the other carriers on LHR-USA (which now forms the backbone of their operation) all are in one of the big 3. Having silver status with VS gets you sweet FA whereas silver with BA gets you lounges (including on AA domestics).

In the long term I don’t see Virgin surviving unless they join an alliance (skyteam) or sign more joint ventures
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
boeing773er
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:39 pm

I’m hoping brighter days for them now that AF-KLM is (or already did) buying 30% of VS. Maybe one of their groups LCCs will begin P2P flying out of LGW or MAN.

It’s just going road for them because they’re in such a niche market, crammed in between BA and all of the LCCs in the market.
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:45 pm

I wonder if they may look at their holiday company more, but the problem for Virgin is are they an independent airline or just Delta UK? I think they will join Skyteam.in the end considering the stake Air France/KLM bought. Maybe a joint venture with Flybe for more feed from the regions and look at a jv with Jet Airways to expand India may be a way for them to go.
 
EGAD
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:00 pm

I believe the £50 MIA tickets were only made available because some MIA flights weren't released for sale until very late due to uncertainty over the 787 availability following on from the RR engine issues. Much of the normal booking window had therefore been missed and it was seen as a chance to experience VS. The arrival off the A332 should solve this issue moving forward.
 
klm617
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:19 pm

Perhaps Virgin should swap the route out with Delta being Delta probably has better brand recognition in the MIA market
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
skipness1E
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:42 pm

Miam was their second route, after Newark. It’s the VS005 for a reason, they’ve been there three decades so brand recognition is no excuse. Perhaps being squeezed by AA/BA JV where MIA is an AA hub.
 
sevenheavy
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:50 pm

EGAD wrote:
I believe the £50 MIA tickets were only made available because some MIA flights weren't released for sale until very late due to uncertainty over the 787 availability following on from the RR engine issues. Much of the normal booking window had therefore been missed and it was seen as a chance to experience VS. The arrival off the A332 should solve this issue moving forward.


Exactly. The flights were released very late and were the second daily (seasonal) VS117/118 rotation that was added a couple of years back. Presumably, if the route were performing badly the first thing we’d see is the second daily flight being axed?

That said, it’s quoted almost daily on here that load factors are no indication of a profitable route ;)

DL tried MIA and instead VS went double daily in the winter. That’s because the majority of customers (according to publicly available data) are ex UK.

Regarding “lack” of connections through LHR, are there any numbers to back up this perception? I’d be interested to see them.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:32 pm

Am I right in thinking that years ago, Miami used to be served from Gatwick (via Kingston, Jamaica?). Is Miami more a leisure destination as opposed to be a business type one? If so, could moving it to Gatwick & adding it as a 'tag on' to another destination (in terms of one of the airlines current Caribbean destinations, Havana for example) make any difference? Just a thought more than anything else...

Cheers

Ben
 
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TransWorldOne
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:54 pm

klm617 wrote:
Perhaps Virgin should swap the route out with Delta being Delta probably has better brand recognition in the MIA market


DL tried MIA-LHR a few years ago and it didn't last long at all. Hard to compete with AA and BA in this market.
 
Cory6188
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:00 pm

I've wondered about VS's overall performance/long-term future.

To the point about EWR being their first route, it's a shame that EWR is down to a single daily A330 rotation at this point - it's not like there's a lack of demand from EWR/JFK to LHR, and aside from the beast that is UA at EWR, even BA manages double daily to LHR from EWR (goes to show you the importance of connecting demand, I guess).
 
skipness1E
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:10 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Am I right in thinking that years ago, Miami used to be served from Gatwick (via Kingston, Jamaica?). Is Miami more a leisure destination as opposed to be a business type one? If so, could moving it to Gatwick & adding it as a 'tag on' to another destination (in terms of one of the airlines current Caribbean destinations, Havana for example) make any difference? Just a thought more than anything else...

Cheers

Ben

Er no, VS005 was LGW-MIA
 
AirbusMDCFAN
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:14 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Am I right in thinking that years ago, Miami used to be served from Gatwick (via Kingston, Jamaica?). Is Miami more a leisure destination as opposed to be a business type one? If so, could moving it to Gatwick & adding it as a 'tag on' to another destination (in terms of one of the airlines current Caribbean destinations, Havana for example) make any difference? Just a thought more than anything else...

Cheers

Ben


VS used fly LGW-MIA-LGW. There was no tag on to any other cities or countries.
flights were VS6 LGW-MIA (I rode this when VS had the classic 747s in service) and VS5 MIA-LGW
 
EGAD
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:33 pm

Cory6188 wrote:
I've wondered about VS's overall performance/long-term future.

To the point about EWR being their first route, it's a shame that EWR is down to a single daily A330 rotation at this point - it's not like there's a lack of demand from EWR/JFK to LHR, and aside from the beast that is UA at EWR, even BA manages double daily to LHR from EWR (goes to show you the importance of connecting demand, I guess).


EWR sees a mix of most types, tonight (as it very often is) it's the 340-600. Lack of EWR frequency isn't due to lack of demand, it's simply that VS aren't the size of BA. There aren't the spare airframes kicking around to run things like a double daily EWR when there's money to be had on other routes.

As for Miami, the loads tend to be very healthy, as does the cargo, but as has been said before, that's no indicator of profitability.
 
OB1504
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:38 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Is Miami more a leisure destination as opposed to be a business type one? If so, could moving it to Gatwick & adding it as a 'tag on' to another destination (in terms of one of the airlines current Caribbean destinations, Havana for example) make any difference? Just a thought more than anything else...

Cheers

Ben


Miami is more of a “premium” leisure destination, in addition to having more business traffic than the typical leisure city, so LHR makes more sense. If VS was to change LHR-MIA to LHR-xxx-MIA, they may as well drop the route entirely. HAV would be a terrible option for a stopover given US-Cuba relations.
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:53 pm

Thanks for the correction fellow posters. Honestly thought the flight was via Jamaica for some reason or other. I shall say no more.

Cheers

Ben
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:18 pm

It’s interesting that this is the second post this week speculating poor performance on a UK-MIA route. The other being the recently launched EI DUB-MIA not doing well.
 
marky
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:23 pm

Erm, last time I checked DUB wasn’t in the UK.....
 
axiom
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:44 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
It’s interesting that this is the second post this week speculating poor performance on a UK-MIA route. The other being the recently launched EI DUB-MIA not doing well.


You might want to look at a map.

In addition to the aforementioned issue with the 787 problem and reduced booking window, a few additional factors:

1. February is not peak travel season ex-UK. Florida may be popular with domestic spring breakers, but peak British holiday travel is in the late summer.

2. MIA is considered a stylish, desirable vacation destination, which lends it to marketing. Would you prefer VS offer cheap tickets to ATL? Sexy...

i'd love some actual fare data before folks declare that the sky is falling for VS, this route, or MIA-EU travel - especially from posters who don't know which country DUB is in.
 
santi319
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:00 am

Well they used to have one flight and now they have two daily flights so...
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:05 am

axiom wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
It’s interesting that this is the second post this week speculating poor performance on a UK-MIA route. The other being the recently launched EI DUB-MIA not doing well.


You might want to look at a map.

In addition to the aforementioned issue with the 787 problem and reduced booking window, a few additional factors:

1. February is not peak travel season ex-UK. Florida may be popular with domestic spring breakers, but peak British holiday travel is in the late summer.

2. MIA is considered a stylish, desirable vacation destination, which lends it to marketing. Would you prefer VS offer cheap tickets to ATL? Sexy...

i'd love some actual fare data before folks declare that the sky is falling for VS, this route, or MIA-EU travel - especially from posters who don't know which country DUB is in.


VS flys to ATL. Doesn’t look like they need to offer cheap tickets there, only MIA.

Also - calling MIA sexy is highly subjective. Outside South Beach/North Beach (and even that’s gone downhill) MIA is nothing sexy.
 
eicvd
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:07 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
It’s interesting that this is the second post this week speculating poor performance on a UK-MIA route. The other being the recently launched EI DUB-MIA not doing well.


Oh deary deary me :banghead:
COYBIB
 
anstar
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:11 am

santi319 wrote:
Well they used to have one flight and now they have two daily flights so...


And that 1 flight a day was operated by the 747 so introducing the 2nd flight was to prrobaly cover for the shortfall in seats having a single 333/787 would bring.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:14 am

marky wrote:
Erm, last time I checked DUB wasn’t in the UK.....

It's still part of the British Isles and believe that is what the poster is thinking when saying UK.
 
axiom
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:42 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
axiom wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
It’s interesting that this is the second post this week speculating poor performance on a UK-MIA route. The other being the recently launched EI DUB-MIA not doing well.


You might want to look at a map.

In addition to the aforementioned issue with the 787 problem and reduced booking window, a few additional factors:

1. February is not peak travel season ex-UK. Florida may be popular with domestic spring breakers, but peak British holiday travel is in the late summer.

2. MIA is considered a stylish, desirable vacation destination, which lends it to marketing. Would you prefer VS offer cheap tickets to ATL? Sexy...

i'd love some actual fare data before folks declare that the sky is falling for VS, this route, or MIA-EU travel - especially from posters who don't know which country DUB is in.


VS flys to ATL. Doesn’t look like they need to offer cheap tickets there, only MIA.

Also - calling MIA sexy is highly subjective. Outside South Beach/North Beach (and even that’s gone downhill) MIA is nothing sexy.


1. You missed my point - the point is that you won't find ATL being marketed as an atttacfive holiday destination to Brits. I was being sarcastic. Which takes me to:

2. MIA is marketed as a stylish, sophisticated beach destination. It also commands higher yields and has a far larger F-class footprint than other Florida markets and their analogues, and is hopefully pretty obvious. I also do not personally hold MIA in particularly high regard, but I am very familiar with both Florida and the UK. This is one of the key ways in which the image of the destination has been constructed, for better or worse.
Last edited by axiom on Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
axiom
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:45 am

Jerry123 wrote:
marky wrote:
Erm, last time I checked DUB wasn’t in the UK.....

It's still part of the British Isles and believe that is what the poster is thinking when saying UK.


It is also still highly inaccurate. This oversight and its defense discredits anyone who seeks to speak about "UK" market dynamics with any sort of integrity.
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:16 am

axiom wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
marky wrote:
Erm, last time I checked DUB wasn’t in the UK.....

It's still part of the British Isles and believe that is what the poster is thinking when saying UK.


It is also still highly inaccurate. This oversight and its defense discredits anyone who seeks to speak about "UK" market dynamics with any sort of integrity.


Dublin is about as much part of the UK as Boston is......

In terms of the post, I think this is more to do with VS' fleet problems.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:23 am

Virgin Atlantic are just totally irrelevant because they’re not in an alliance. Look no further than that. I’m a London-based frequent (a long haul a month) traveller and I haven’t flown VS for a decade. I’m married to BA because of the Executive Club. Maintaining status is too hard to waste trips on non aligned carriers. I’ll take the occasional Star or Skyteam airline cos I do have accounts there (AV/Lifemiles & KL/Flying Blue respectively) which are less helpful but not without value. But VS is just Norwegian with LHR slots. Backpackers and once-a-year leisure travellers flying the cheapest ticket they can find. Not much of a niche.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Jerry123
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:41 am

axiom wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
marky wrote:
Erm, last time I checked DUB wasn’t in the UK.....

It's still part of the British Isles and believe that is what the poster is thinking when saying UK.


It is also still highly inaccurate. This oversight and its defense discredits anyone who seeks to speak about "UK" market dynamics with any sort of integrity.

Yes it's inaccurate but it is an easy mistake to make in confusing the UK with the British Isles. Lots of people do the same with England and UK even though they are different.
 
axiom
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:44 am

Jerry123 wrote:
axiom wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
It's still part of the British Isles and believe that is what the poster is thinking when saying UK.


It is also still highly inaccurate. This oversight and its defense discredits anyone who seeks to speak about "UK" market dynamics with any sort of integrity.

Yes it's inaccurate but it is an easy mistake to make in confusing the UK with the British Isles. Lots of people do the same with England and UK even though they are different.



It's only "easy" for people who are so privileged as to not need to know the basics of the Anglo world (let alone places beyond...).
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:50 am

For the avoidance of doubt on the whole UK/GB/etc etc matter:

Image
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:25 pm

axiom wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
marky wrote:
Erm, last time I checked DUB wasn’t in the UK.....

It's still part of the British Isles and believe that is what the poster is thinking when saying UK.


It is also still highly inaccurate. This oversight and its defense discredits anyone who seeks to speak about "UK" market dynamics with any sort of integrity.

It's worthy of correction & mild comment, but no more.

There are plenty of people (Brits predominantly) who see themselves as somehow separate from Europe.

Worldwide it is common to use the generic term "Americans" to mean citizens of the USA, completing forgetting Canada, Mexico, etc.
(In German, the designation US-Amerikaner is sometimes used. In European & Brazilian Portuguese, americano is mostly used in colloquial speech, but the term usually used in the press & elsewhere is norte-americano. or estadunidense. Chinese has distinct words for American in the continent sense and American in the U.S. sense. The official Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas de la Real Academia Española recommends estadounidense (literally United Statesian) because "American" can also refer to all of the inhabitants of the continents of North and South America. This applies not only to Spain, but is even more common in Spanish-speaking Latin America and the Caribbean, where of course they consider themselves to all be "Americans" too.)

Historically, I am sure plenty of Irish citizens crossed the Irish Sea to take flights out of the UK.

And today, I'm also guessing that citizens from Northern Ireland either travel south to Dublin, or across the water to GLA for a better selection of international connections.

So digging your heels in and demanding that Eire is distinctly separate from the wider picture isn't entirely correct either.

By the same token, "UK Market Dynamics" is a flawed concept when you can bypass LHR entirely and catch a KLM flight from AMS just as easily.

These days the only island that can truly claim to "know" it's market, is Easter Island. :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
axiom
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:54 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
axiom wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
It's still part of the British Isles and believe that is what the poster is thinking when saying UK.


It is also still highly inaccurate. This oversight and its defense discredits anyone who seeks to speak about "UK" market dynamics with any sort of integrity.

It's worthy of correction & mild comment, but no more.

There are plenty of people (Brits predominantly) who see themselves as somehow separate from Europe.

Worldwide it is common to use the generic term "Americans" to mean citizens of the USA, completing forgetting Canada, Mexico, etc.
(In German, the designation US-Amerikaner is sometimes used. In European & Brazilian Portuguese, americano is mostly used in colloquial speech, but the term usually used in the press & elsewhere is norte-americano. or estadunidense. Chinese has distinct words for American in the continent sense and American in the U.S. sense. The official Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas de la Real Academia Española recommends estadounidense (literally United Statesian) because "American" can also refer to all of the inhabitants of the continents of North and South America. This applies not only to Spain, but is even more common in Spanish-speaking Latin America and the Caribbean, where of course they consider themselves to all be "Americans" too.)

Historically, I am sure plenty of Irish citizens crossed the Irish Sea to take flights out of the UK.

And today, I'm also guessing that citizens from Northern Ireland either travel south to Dublin, or across the water to GLA for a better selection of international connections.

So digging your heels in and demanding that Eire is distinctly separate from the wider picture isn't entirely correct either.

By the same token, "UK Market Dynamics" is a flawed concept when you can bypass LHR entirely and catch a KLM flight from AMS just as easily.

These days the only island that can truly claim to "know" it's market, is Easter Island. :lol:


For something worthy of "mostly correction and comment, but no more," that sure was a long and winding post which managed to connect a remarkable number of unrelated observations about the world.

My problem here is a bigger one. I love talking about aviation - speculating, even. But after a decade of reading this forum, I can attest that there are increasing numbers of folks who come here to post 1) wildly speculative comments with 2) substantial errors about the fundamental topic of conversation. One is fine, and maybe even a healthy part of discourse. But together, we are treading a thin line. Pardon me for being mildly annoyed - I see this as a bigger issue that extends beyond this thread.

If we had some actual evidence to debate - fairs, load factors - I would be much more compelled to engage the possibility that VS is struggling in one of the largest, higher end leisure destinations from London. Alas, we do not...
 
santi319
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:54 pm

anstar wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Well they used to have one flight and now they have two daily flights so...


And that 1 flight a day was operated by the 747 so introducing the 2nd flight was to prrobaly cover for the shortfall in seats having a single 333/787 would bring.


That flight hasnt been a 747 since at least 2016.

I took it myself once that year in Oct it was a 787.....
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:23 pm

axiom wrote:
For something worthy of "mostly correction and comment, but no more," that sure was a long and winding post which managed to connect a remarkable number of unrelated observations about the world.

Guilty as charged.... :D

Shaky wanders off towards the sunset, humming "Ramblin' man" by the Allman Brothers.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:24 pm

axiom wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
axiom wrote:

It is also still highly inaccurate. This oversight and its defense discredits anyone who seeks to speak about "UK" market dynamics with any sort of integrity.

Yes it's inaccurate but it is an easy mistake to make in confusing the UK with the British Isles. Lots of people do the same with England and UK even though they are different.



It's only "easy" for people who are so privileged as to not need to know the basics of the Anglo world (let alone places beyond...).


axiom please sit down and shut up. I misspoke and I own that. This has nothing to do with being “so privileged.” It was a mistake and nothing more.

axiom wrote:
2. MIA is marketed as a stylish, sophisticated beach destination. It also commands higher yields and has a far larger F-class footprint than other Florida markets and their analogues, and is hopefully pretty obvious. I also do not personally hold MIA in particularly high regard, but I am very familiar with both Florida and the UK. This is one of the key ways in which the image of the destination has been constructed, for better or worse.


Well considering this post is about VS and they have no F class, so this is completely irrelevant.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:31 pm

boeing773er wrote:
I’m hoping brighter days for them now that AF-KLM is (or already did) buying 30% of VS. Maybe one of their groups LCCs will begin P2P flying out of LGW or MAN.

It’s just going road for them because they’re in such a niche market, crammed in between BA and all of the LCCs in the market.

That stake is under a serious cloud too.

France or the Netherlands will no longer be considered a Domestic Location for ownership purposes after Brexit. Unless a comprehensive aviation and trade deal gets done, the fifty per cent rule over foreign ownership may put the AF/KL purchase on the wrong side of the law.

Air France may be obliged to sell to a British buyer or back to Sir Beard
 
Jerry123
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:53 pm

Channex757 wrote:
boeing773er wrote:
I’m hoping brighter days for them now that AF-KLM is (or already did) buying 30% of VS. Maybe one of their groups LCCs will begin P2P flying out of LGW or MAN.

It’s just going road for them because they’re in such a niche market, crammed in between BA and all of the LCCs in the market.

That stake is under a serious cloud too.

France or the Netherlands will no longer be considered a Domestic Location for ownership purposes after Brexit. Unless a comprehensive aviation and trade deal gets done, the fifty per cent rule over foreign ownership may put the AF/KL purchase on the wrong side of the law.

Air France may be obliged to sell to a British buyer or back to Sir Beard

That is a good point. I wonder if Delta instead could setup a UK company and then transfer the shares to it to get around that.
 
axiom
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:02 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
axiom wrote:
For something worthy of "mostly correction and comment, but no more," that sure was a long and winding post which managed to connect a remarkable number of unrelated observations about the world.

Guilty as charged.... :D

Shaky wanders off towards the sunset, humming "Ramblin' man" by the Allman Brothers.

To be fair, I enjoyed the wander ;-)
 
axiom
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:04 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
axiom wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
Yes it's inaccurate but it is an easy mistake to make in confusing the UK with the British Isles. Lots of people do the same with England and UK even though they are different.



It's only "easy" for people who are so privileged as to not need to know the basics of the Anglo world (let alone places beyond...).


axiom please sit down and shut up. I misspoke and I own that. This has nothing to do with being “so privileged.” It was a mistake and nothing more.

axiom wrote:
2. MIA is marketed as a stylish, sophisticated beach destination. It also commands higher yields and has a far larger F-class footprint than other Florida markets and their analogues, and is hopefully pretty obvious. I also do not personally hold MIA in particularly high regard, but I am very familiar with both Florida and the UK. This is one of the key ways in which the image of the destination has been constructed, for better or worse.


Well considering this post is about VS and they have no F class, so this is completely irrelevant.

Ah, yes - I do wonder who is paying for all of those J. Class seats?

Where's this owning that you misspoke? Right after you posted that, you started a thread about MIA and EU carriers without evidence, again.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:09 pm

Deleted. Wrong thread!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:27 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
It’s interesting that this is the second post this week speculating poor performance on a UK-MIA route. The other being the recently launched EI DUB-MIA not doing well.

WoW just cancelled MIA, it appears the market is over served.

Lightsaber
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Galwayman
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:55 pm

I think Europeans are just bored with Miami , it’s over priced and not much going on , Orlando gets the bucket and spade crowd , there’s Punta Cana , Cancun , Havana to compete with , connections to Latin America are a million times better via Lisbon or Madrid . A flight a couple of times a week to connect to cruise ships is probably the optimum schedule .
 
bagoldex
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:12 pm

Galwayman wrote:
I think Europeans are just bored with Miami , it’s over priced and not much going on , Orlando gets the bucket and spade crowd , there’s Punta Cana , Cancun , Havana to compete with , connections to Latin America are a million times better via Lisbon or Madrid . A flight a couple of times a week to connect to cruise ships is probably the optimum schedule .


There are better places to go but Europeans are still pouring in and for more than just cruises. Five years ago I was enthralled with Miami and went five or six weekends per year on average, always in BA F with a room at Fontainebleau, but over the last two I've grown distinctly bored with it and will have only gone twice this year.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:43 am

axiom wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
axiom wrote:


It's only "easy" for people who are so privileged as to not need to know the basics of the Anglo world (let alone places beyond...).


axiom please sit down and shut up. I misspoke and I own that. This has nothing to do with being “so privileged.” It was a mistake and nothing more.

axiom wrote:
2. MIA is marketed as a stylish, sophisticated beach destination. It also commands higher yields and has a far larger F-class footprint than other Florida markets and their analogues, and is hopefully pretty obvious. I also do not personally hold MIA in particularly high regard, but I am very familiar with both Florida and the UK. This is one of the key ways in which the image of the destination has been constructed, for better or worse.


Well considering this post is about VS and they have no F class, so this is completely irrelevant.

Ah, yes - I do wonder who is paying for all of those J. Class seats?

Where's this owning that you misspoke? Right after you posted that, you started a thread about MIA and EU carriers without evidence, again.


Reading comprehension apparently isn’t your thing. What about me saying “I misspoke and I own that” is so hard for you to understand I’m admitting my mistake?

And in that post you just referenced I started I posted links to two sources. What additional evidence do you need. Or do you just enjoy being a troll?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:18 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
axiom wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

axiom please sit down and shut up. I misspoke and I own that. This has nothing to do with being “so privileged.” It was a mistake and nothing more.



Well considering this post is about VS and they have no F class, so this is completely irrelevant.

Ah, yes - I do wonder who is paying for all of those J. Class seats?

Where's this owning that you misspoke? Right after you posted that, you started a thread about MIA and EU carriers without evidence, again.


Reading comprehension apparently isn’t your thing. What about me saying “I misspoke and I own that” is so hard for you to understand I’m admitting my mistake?

And in that post you just referenced I started I posted links to two sources. What additional evidence do you need. Or do you just enjoy being a troll?


You have yet to post single source to backup your ridiculous claims. Air France discontinued Orlando. Maybe I should post about how Orlando-Europe is failing. You are clearly trolling and not even doing a good job hiding it.
a.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:30 am

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
axiom wrote:
Ah, yes - I do wonder who is paying for all of those J. Class seats?

Where's this owning that you misspoke? Right after you posted that, you started a thread about MIA and EU carriers without evidence, again.


Reading comprehension apparently isn’t your thing. What about me saying “I misspoke and I own that” is so hard for you to understand I’m admitting my mistake?

And in that post you just referenced I started I posted links to two sources. What additional evidence do you need. Or do you just enjoy being a troll?


You have yet to post single source to backup your ridiculous claims. Air France discontinued Orlando. Maybe I should post about how Orlando-Europe is failing. You are clearly trolling and not even doing a good job hiding it.


You dodge a question with another false post. Why can’t you provide a source for your claim WW is only suspending MIA seasonally?

I linked 2 sources to support my ask if MIA was struggling with EU carriers. Why is it so hard for you?
 
Cunard
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Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:38 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
axiom wrote:
For something worthy of "mostly correction and comment, but no more," that sure was a long and winding post which managed to connect a remarkable number of unrelated observations about the world.

Guilty as charged.... :D

Shaky wanders off towards the sunset, humming "Ramblin' man" by the Allman Brothers.


I thought it was an excellent post and very well written and also very informative :-)

I share your annoyance of the use of the term AMERICAN, I visit the United States of America I never say that I am visiting AMERICA I have never done so and in my line of work the term US citizen is used not AMERICAN.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Cunard
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Is Virgin Atlantic struggling on LHR-MIA?

Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:05 am

Virgin Voyages the new cruise line set up by the Virgin Group and Bain Majority Holdings and based at the Port of Miami have three 110,000 tonne 2700 passenger cruise ships on order with the first to be delivered in 2020 and are scheduled to operate from Miami catering to not only the USA but also to a global audience with Virgin Holidays from the United Kingdom playing a major part of that.

In 2017 the Port of Miami handled 5.7 million passengers and 8.2% of those were British and those figures will be higher in the coming years with the additional capacity and larger ships and the new cruise terminals and VS through it's Virgin Holidays as well as direct sales will want to remain in Miami and I don't see them stopping it anytime soon.

I can't see VS abandoning Miami and I can't see how the route can be suffering as VS have served Miami for over thirty years and has great brand recognition on the route.

With the onset of the new cruise venture based at Miami from 2020 and the fact that British Airways fly to three destinations in Florida from LGW it wouldn't surprise me if VS announced a resumption of a LGW to Miami connection by 2020.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.

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