DayFreighter
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:34 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:55 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
If there’s only 3 mainline 763s left come 2020 I’d hazard a guess the last 3 routes will be YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR & YHZ-LHR with YOW/YHZ-YYZ for fleet/crew rotation.


It will be interesting to see what eventually replaces the long-serving 763s at YOW
 
chrisa330
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 10:24 am

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:55 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Not according to what Longhauler wrote and he's kinda in the know. Quite frankly a lot can happen between now and then and mainline could easily wind up 2020 with a 1/2 dozen 763s still floating around.


A new fleet plan was released on Friday that shows 1 763 left in Mainline by end of 2019.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:58 pm

chrisa330 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Not according to what Longhauler wrote and he's kinda in the know. Quite frankly a lot can happen between now and then and mainline could easily wind up 2020 with a 1/2 dozen 763s still floating around.


A new fleet plan was released on Friday that shows 1 763 left in Mainline by end of 2019.


In that case, I'd hazard a guess that it'll operate YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ in winter 2019-20 and YHZ-LHR in winter 2019-20 gets a frequency bump up to daily but with a downguage to a 7M8.

Again, who knows at this point as fleet plans can change on a quarterly basis.
 
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SuperTwin
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:49 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
If there’s only 3 mainline 763s left come 2020 I’d hazard a guess the last 3 routes will be YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR & YHZ-LHR with YOW/YHZ-YYZ for fleet/crew rotation.

There will only be 1 left come 2020. Probably used as a spare on YYZ-YYC & YYZ-YVR.


Not according to what Longhauler wrote and he's kinda in the know. Quite frankly a lot can happen between now and then and mainline could easily wind up 2020 with a 1/2 dozen 763s still floating around.


The most current information, as made available on Friday via the FY2017 report, indicates 1x767 remaining in Mainline ops at EoY 2019.

See Page 42.
https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/aircanada/portal/documents/PDF/en/quarterly-result/2017/2017_MDA_q4.pdf
SuperTwin
 
codyul
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:13 pm

SuperTwin wrote:
The most current information, as made available on Friday via the FY2017 report, indicates 1x767 remaining in Mainline ops at EoY 2019.

See Page 42.
https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/aircanada/portal/documents/PDF/en/quarterly-result/2017/2017_MDA_q4.pdf


Thanks for that info! Interesting to see real fleet numbers. Personally I think overhead is not mentioning taking options on the dreamliner to show financial discipline as was said. But I certainly feel they will take all options.

At least I'm hoping, as an active employee.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
User avatar
SuperTwin
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:32 pm

codyul wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:
The most current information, as made available on Friday via the FY2017 report, indicates 1x767 remaining in Mainline ops at EoY 2019.

See Page 42.
https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/aircanada/portal/documents/PDF/en/quarterly-result/2017/2017_MDA_q4.pdf


Thanks for that info! Interesting to see real fleet numbers. Personally I think overhead is not mentioning taking options on the dreamliner to show financial discipline as was said. But I certainly feel they will take all options.

At least I'm hoping, as an active employee.


I think they will. The pricing on those optional birds would be the same as the rest of the firm orders so they would be getting a really good deal compared to today’s going prices for the same units.

The key bit of absent info is the date when those options start expiring, as that would be the looming deadline to watch for an announcement.

As you say, right now the focus from management is to reduce long term debt so ordering these now would muddy that message to investors. Timing of such an announcement would be key.

On a side note, it’s pretty great to see that excess cash will be used to buy many of the new planes coming in this year and next! Quite the turnaround from a few years ago when AC owned next to nil aircraft free and clear.
SuperTwin
 
briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:49 am

Will all of AC's 737 MAX 8 be capable to cross the Atlantic, or will only a subfleet be ETOPS-rated?
 
Topguncanada
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:44 am

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 am

Only a portion of the 737Max order being received is planned to be ETOPS equipped. It appears the first 17 will all be ETOPS certified.
 
codyul
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:11 am

SuperTwin wrote:
I think they will. The pricing on those optional birds would be the same as the rest of the firm orders so they would be getting a really good deal compared to today’s going prices for the same units.

The key bit of absent info is the date when those options start expiring, as that would be the looming deadline to watch for an announcement.

As you say, right now the focus from management is to reduce long term debt so ordering these now would muddy that message to investors. Timing of such an announcement would be key.

On a side note, it’s pretty great to see that excess cash will be used to buy many of the new planes coming in this year and next! Quite the turnaround from a few years ago when AC owned next to nil aircraft free and clear.


Yeah definitely we are in good shape. And I was thinking the exact thing. The deal on those dreamliners is too good to pass up. Even if they just sold and leased them back. But yeah I'm hoping for more widebody and long haul expansion.
Quite frankly as crew we pretty much dislike the max. We are happy to offer customers a newer plane as the 320 fleet is feeling old. But we in general would have much preferred the neo.
I would have easily seen a fleet comprising: 777, 787, 330, 321neolr and cs300. That would have been my dream team. But alas I'm no where near decision makers haha.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:58 pm

codyul wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:
I think they will. The pricing on those optional birds would be the same as the rest of the firm orders so they would be getting a really good deal compared to today’s going prices for the same units.

The key bit of absent info is the date when those options start expiring, as that would be the looming deadline to watch for an announcement.

As you say, right now the focus from management is to reduce long term debt so ordering these now would muddy that message to investors. Timing of such an announcement would be key.

On a side note, it’s pretty great to see that excess cash will be used to buy many of the new planes coming in this year and next! Quite the turnaround from a few years ago when AC owned next to nil aircraft free and clear.


Yeah definitely we are in good shape. And I was thinking the exact thing. The deal on those dreamliners is too good to pass up. Even if they just sold and leased them back. But yeah I'm hoping for more widebody and long haul expansion.
Quite frankly as crew we pretty much dislike the max. We are happy to offer customers a newer plane as the 320 fleet is feeling old. But we in general would have much preferred the neo.
I would have easily seen a fleet comprising: 777, 787, 330, 321neolr and cs300. That would have been my dream team. But alas I'm no where near decision makers haha.


I think the whole point of the A333 addition is to cover some expansion and get the ball rolling before committing to another large new widebody order. They have to decide if they want to add to the 787 fleet and wait for the eventual 777 replacement, or go to something like A350-1000 and use them to replace the A333s and 777s eventually. That is the luxury of adding A330s now, they have just bought a few more years to deice, all the while getting a really solid airplane to help them expand in the interim. QF has been able to renegotiate expires on options as it would seem from the thread on here with regards to their 787 order, I'm sure Boeing realised that they stand to gain another huge order if they cut AC some slack and give them more time.

In terms of narrow bodies, they don't really have the A321s replacement allocated for as of yet, so there still could be an Airbus product ordered for the narrow body fleet yet. A321neoLR would be great for them, with an international configuration, they could effectively replace the 767 on YOW-LHR/FRA, YHZ-LHR and YYZ-LAX/SFO, along with growth on thinner routes.
 
beechnut
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:26 pm

YVRing wrote:
I just wonder what will eventually replace those Rouge 767's; they are starting to get up there in age.


I've wondered too. I've flown 6 times on Rouge that I can recall, or 3 round-trips. Edinburgh, Glasgow and Rome. On two flights we had long (around 4 hours) tech delays (going to Rome and coming home from Glasgow). Anecdotal to be sure, but still... 33% of my flights delayed didn't leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling about them. I love the 767, but I think they are getting past their prime. Eventually they will have to replace them. Not sure how the pilot agreements fit into all this. Maybe mainline will take more 787-9 or even 787-10 options and flip the 788s to Rouge, and acquire some A321LRs, to cover the upper and lower capacity ranges. Perhaps the A333s as well, although the oldest one is no spring chicken either at 19 years of age. They were all delivered 1999-2001.

Beech
 
yycdel
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:51 am

A330neo, A321LR, etc could work for rouge if AC wants to get new planes......
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:50 am

They are going to have to come up with something for Rouge soon, many of their 767s are in their late 20s. Realistically speaking, given that they can continue to add narrow bodies, A321neoLR could be a real winner there, it can replace the oldest 767s on N. American routes at a rate of say 3:2, and then allow AC to wait for the 797 to replace the rest, or to use some of their A333s down the line if they need that capacity.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Reports Record Results For 2017

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:51 am

Yeah the 321LR would be perfect to bring YOW-FRA back up to year-round service as I doubt the 7M8 has the range in winter for YOW-FRA. In summer YOW-LHR/FRA can support the 333 (or 788) and both routes have seen brief periods of 333 usage in the past. As for LHR, I do not think AC would want to 7M8 YOW-LHR given the large J demand from government traffic...unless AC ever decide to add a YOW-CDG 7M8 route...if 17 7M8s are going to have ETOPS, you have to think it is a distinct possibility.

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