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klm617
Posts: 5413
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I guess you are going to shocked when I tell you the O&D between Lagos and Houston is larger than the O&D between Houston and Frankfurt, Tokyo, Seoul, Singapore, Mumbai, Beijing, Buenos Aires, need I mention anymore?



If that were the case where is the flight to cater to that traffic.


Dude, UA was running it until 2016 at 80%+ LF.

I honestly don't know why you engage in these conversations when you don't know what you are talking about.

O&D was not the problem, Nigeria had its worst economic crisis in 30 years during 2016, and UA had difficulty collecting money from ticket sales. This was because Nigeria restricted the amount of money that could be moved abroad during their recession, because their US currency reserves were depleted. The country ended up owing airlines like UA about $575 million...UA wasn't the only airline that pulled out IB did as well. Obviously the economy has recovered or DL wouldn't be adding JFK-LOS



Loaf factor does not equate to a route being profitable.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
DLvsWN
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:31 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:41 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
I know SEP is low season, but 2x is not competitive with DL's shuttle-like operation and B6's 5x. I wonder if this will stick around for much longer...


PHL isn't being discussed here, but ATL-PHL is a similar situation. WN down to 2x in low and 3x high, and sub-$50 fares can be found last minute.

I think for WN in ATL connecting traffic is actually more important than for the other airlines. Delta is very hesitant to discount O&D fares to the rock bottom prices WN offers, while AA seems to match them in basic economy. DL basic economy fares are routinely much higher.

enilria wrote:
WN ATL-BNA AUG 0>4 SEP 0>5


Holy moly how did I miss this?? This is a dream come true!
 
phluser
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:32 am

knope2001 wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
enilria wrote:
WN ATL-BOS SEP 3>2


I know SEP is low season, but 2x is not competitive with DL's shuttle-like operation and B6's 5x. I wonder if this will stick around for much longer...


A little brow-furrowing to see the number of weekday September flights for some Boston markets:
2x Atlanta
1x Columbus
1x Houston
1x Indianapolis

Sure, September is a week month because kids are back in school and people who have taken summer vacations are not primed to take another getaway so quickly after summer has ended. But September is not a weak business month and the level of service is just not worth much in these competitive business-travel city pairs.

This is a good-economy era with reasonable fuel prices and yet Southwest is choosing to trim back this flying. How will they do when we have $110 oil or a recession? If Southwest want to compete solidly for business travel in market like these they either need to stick it out in slower months or look to smaller aircraft. Of course nothing says they have to be going for the business market in these city pairs, but that raises the question of who do they want to be. When an Atlanta flyer can't get a nonstop to Boston until 1:30 in the afternoon it sure doesn't help build loyalty. And when you consider that travelers typically have to seek out Southwest specifically, whose to say they will bother checking Southwest the next time they fly even if there is a morning nonstop back in the schedule


The 1x of HOU-BOS is similar to what it does from DAL to certain markets > 1000 miles, though. With the distance longer, and time zone change in travel, business pax between these markets can't do a day trip and have to settle with fewer available nonstops as a choice and might instead consider their preferred carrier and/or usage of a preferred airport. At ATL, it's going uphill just w/ a nominal schedule against DL's high frequency on a number of these intra East routes.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3994
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:21 am

MAH4546 wrote:
AA aus flying a 772 on the route right now, IIRC.


Isn’t that going away at the end of March?

Only two years ago AA had a mix of 757s, 767s, and 777s on the route, with only one or two 737 or A321 flights. I hope they do start sending their international 757s on transcons, especially if they want to compete with JetBlue.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:44 pm

jordanh wrote:
Throwing up a white flag in SFO and Southern California, and circling the wagons in SEA?



More like paving the way for the obvious AS/B6 merger so both companies can make a boat load of money. How the BoD and investors are not already demanding this happens is beyond me.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5341
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:59 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
jordanh wrote:
Throwing up a white flag in SFO and Southern California, and circling the wagons in SEA?



More like paving the way for the obvious AS/B6 merger so both companies can make a boat load of money. How the BoD and investors are not already demanding this happens is beyond me.


I don't think either airline can afford each other right now. You know, there could be a F9/B6 merger or NK/B6 merger.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:05 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
jordanh wrote:
Throwing up a white flag in SFO and Southern California, and circling the wagons in SEA?



More like paving the way for the obvious AS/B6 merger so both companies can make a boat load of money. How the BoD and investors are not already demanding this happens is beyond me.


I don't think either airline can afford each other right now. You know, there could be a F9/B6 merger or NK/B6 merger.



They'd merge, not buy each other out.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:05 pm

jetero wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DTW-BJX? Woah! I thought they’d see GDL before getting into more interior Mexico. This is going to be huge for the automakers.


It amazes me that people think there’s a market from DTW to BJX.


While I get that both locations are big with the automotive industry, are there going to be 300-400 pax per week? I don't see BJX attracting tourists.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:25 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
jetero wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DTW-BJX? Woah! I thought they’d see GDL before getting into more interior Mexico. This is going to be huge for the automakers.


It amazes me that people think there’s a market from DTW to BJX.


While I get that both locations are big with the automotive industry, are there going to be 300-400 pax per week? I don't see BJX attracting tourists.


No doubt klm617 can help us with the math and why the "if it were profitable, it would already be flown" standard does not apply in this case.
 
lat41
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:46 pm

phluser wrote:
tphuang wrote:
BOS-ATL is a huge bloodbath. NK yields are at LAX-PDX/SEA level right before they cut those routes, so I think they are toast.


AFAIK, NK is seasonal on BOS-ATL, and if it's cut, it's no game changer for them strategically. Atleast on my ventures on PHL-ATL on NK, majority of the pax are Black. In Boston, the Black population is a lot less than Philly. With WN, a cut to ATL is more meaningful since WN acquired FL and tried to make routes work for business passengers. Would Amazon HQ2 decision make a difference? WN might want to wait to see If Boston or Atlanta are the next HQ2, before decision of cuts at either end. Aside from that, I also wonder if WN would take a page from it's old playbook and consider PVD, for maybe a flight to ATL if it doesn't want to compete out of BOS.

Old playbook indeed. Southwest has been plucking successful flights from PVD, where passengers are accustomed to paying a premium and moving them North to BOS to help bolster the operation there. Problem is, the competition at Boston is battering and WN has had to cave in prices to stay in the game. If WN wants to go against DL's monoply from PVD, unfortunately F9 has followed the scent and will begin in April to ATL.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2724
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:50 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
jetero wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DTW-BJX? Woah! I thought they’d see GDL before getting into more interior Mexico. This is going to be huge for the automakers.


It amazes me that people think there’s a market from DTW to BJX.


While I get that both locations are big with the automotive industry, are there going to be 300-400 pax per week? I don't see BJX attracting tourists.

BJX has some good tourism potential. Guanajuato is absolutely beautiful.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:59 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
jordanh wrote:
Throwing up a white flag in SFO and Southern California, and circling the wagons in SEA?



More like paving the way for the obvious AS/B6 merger so both companies can make a boat load of money. How the BoD and investors are not already demanding this happens is beyond me.


I don't think either airline can afford each other right now. You know, there could be a F9/B6 merger or NK/B6 merger.


No more mergers please! However, B6 and one of the ULCC's makes little sense. Now NK+F9, that could happen. B6 is looking like the odd man out. If the comments in the thread about their problems are true, some of the luster is gone from their product.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5341
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:17 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:


More like paving the way for the obvious AS/B6 merger so both companies can make a boat load of money. How the BoD and investors are not already demanding this happens is beyond me.


I don't think either airline can afford each other right now. You know, there could be a F9/B6 merger or NK/B6 merger.


No more mergers please! However, B6 and one of the ULCC's makes little sense. Now NK+F9, that could happen. B6 is looking like the odd man out. If the comments in the thread about their problems are true, some of the luster is gone from their product.


Nah...we won't see AS merging with any other airline any time soon. B6's flying resources are very different than what AS has...even the Airbus fleet is different...different engines.
 
Q
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 10:29 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/18/2018:AM Adds DTW-BJX;AS Drops SFO-FLL/MSP,LAX-MCO,MEX-SAN;NK Drops MSP-ORD;WN Adds EWR-OAK/SAN

Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:13 pm

I just browsing Delta schedules PDF Feb 2018. I saw Delta will start mainline between ATL and Fargo (FAR) on an Airbus 319 in March 3rd but it's only saturdays round trip.

Q

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