AirbusMDCFAN
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Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:52 pm

Link/Source: https://www.wired.com/story/airport-tra ... ffed-cave/

"The next time you fly into Florida's Fort Lauderdale airport, look out the window and see if you can spot what's missing. The answer? A 160 feet high tower."

"That’s what airport officials at the airport say would have been necessary for them to be able to safely control the movement of planes on the ground, taxiing to and from gates and runways at the recently expanded airport. That would be doing things the old fashioned way, by line-of-sight—aka looking at the planes. Instead of an elevated perch, ground controllers at FLL have an even better view from inside a nearby squat, building."

"Controllers sit in front of a video wall, which shows them what’s happening in real time. The infrared images offer improved visibility at night and in the fog. Wearing headsets, they calmly issue cryptic sounding instructions to pilots, and then track the plane moving. It’s the first of its kind in the US, and could set the bar for other airports around the country."

Are there any other airports trying this system out
 
trident3
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:59 pm

London City is going to be controlled from Swanwick, 80 miles away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii_Gz1WbBGA
"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
 
uta999
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:00 pm

LCY will go down this route in a years time I believe.

https://www.londoncityairport.com/news/ ... h-aviation
Last edited by uta999 on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lightsaber
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:09 pm

I've controlled test flights from a screen lined cave. With the muti-spectrum cameras (visual, IR, and sometimes UV), you see far more! If course redundant routing paths, severs, and screens are required. It improves throughput in aircraft in all weather's.

This technology was mature in 2004. It is a non-issue in 2018. I like visual backup, but that is a feel good. And the fact I get bored following an aircraft in loiter and my screen always gets locked to a big screen by my bosses, so I can't lokkie loo during down times at other projects' aircraft in a cave, unless a junior engineer next to me loans a screen...

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N353SK
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:14 pm

This is a poorly written article. Broward County is using this for FLL's ramp controllers only. All FAA controllers are still in the tower.

Here is a better article, written four months ago:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/transp ... story.html
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:26 pm

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Link/Source: https://www.wired.com/story/airport-tra ... ffed-cave/

"The next time you fly into Florida's Fort Lauderdale airport, look out the window and see if you can spot what's missing. The answer? A 160 feet high tower."

"That’s what airport officials at the airport say would have been necessary for them to be able to safely control the movement of planes on the ground, taxiing to and from gates and runways at the recently expanded airport. That would be doing things the old fashioned way, by line-of-sight—aka looking at the planes. Instead of an elevated perch, ground controllers at FLL have an even better view from inside a nearby squat, building."

"Controllers sit in front of a video wall, which shows them what’s happening in real time. The infrared images offer improved visibility at night and in the fog. Wearing headsets, they calmly issue cryptic sounding instructions to pilots, and then track the plane moving. It’s the first of its kind in the US, and could set the bar for other airports around the country."

Are there any other airports trying this system out



Um except there is a tower.
Smh do these guys ever really research stuff.
They are talking about ramp control. This has nothing to do with the tower.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:38 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
If so, the next Control Tower to be featured on the list, might have a negative height. :scratchchin:

The "tower in a basement" you're referring to is already happening. The FAA started testing the remote tower concept with Saab last year at Leesburg Airport. I work at a nearby facility, but I don't really know much about it other than what I've heard and read. If it does completely replace the existing tower (which is the goal), the location of the controllers could technically be anywhere.
...


As mentioned before, this is indeed happening. Swedish airport ESNO/OER at Örnsköldsvik is completely remote controlled from Sundsvall, 150 km south of there. It has been in regular service (not in test mode or as proof of concept) for over a year now. Several other airports, including Sundsvall (SDL) and Linköping (LPI) are to be converted to this concept. Scandinavian Mountain Airport in Sälen (Sweden) is to be built with no tower at all, a first in the world (well, for airports needing a tower function that is).

http://www.lfv.se/en/services/airport-s ... n-21-april

About Sälen (Swedish only, sorry):
http://www.flygtorget.se/Aktuellt/Artikel/?Id=11893

Oh, sorry, I have no info on the height of those towers, not even in meters ;)

/Fredrik


See the above for in-production Remote Virtual Tower. Post is from another topic here regarding the height of towers.

/Fredrik
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:00 pm

It's a nice system, but it has one flaw. In case it fails you still need to fall back to the old system, which is line of sight. That means a tower. Imagine what would happen if you demolish the tower and there is a failure with the video wall or something like that? The whole airport would become uncontrolled.

I'm not saying we should not use this new system, of course we should, but we should also keep the old system as a backup.
 
Chemist
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:27 pm

So if the video feeds fail, a horde of controllers scurry up stairs to a real tower? The visual of that is priceless.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:32 pm

N353SK wrote:
This is a poorly written article. Broward County is using this for FLL's ramp controllers only. All FAA controllers are still in the tower.

Here is a better article, written four months ago:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/transp ... story.html

Yes, but... They've run multiple test runs at Leesburg (JYO) for remote tower over the past year-ish, maybe more. The tower has remained staffed during the tests, but the actual controlling was being done by the virtual tower. Saab is the equipment contractor the FAA has been using. I don't know if/when they'll permanently make the switch, but there is a lot of push to make that happen.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:45 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
It's a nice system, but it has one flaw. In case it fails you still need to fall back to the old system, which is line of sight. That means a tower. Imagine what would happen if you demolish the tower and there is a failure with the video wall or something like that? The whole airport would become uncontrolled.

I'm not saying we should not use this new system, of course we should, but we should also keep the old system as a backup.

Line of sight is relatively pointless in IMC too. I'm not disagreeing with you that equipment failure presents a legitimate issue, but that's also why remote tower (at least in the US) is only being targeted at VFR towers anyway. Many of these airports already revert to uncontrolled/Class Echo at night anyway, so if there were an equipment failure, it wouldn't be the end of the world. From what I understand though, the equipment is very reliable.

Chemist wrote:
So if the video feeds fail, a horde of controllers scurry up stairs to a real tower? The visual of that is priceless.

The idea is that the remote tower wouldn't be collocated with the airport. This idea is many, many years in the future, but a number of remote towers could be housed in the same facility (possibly either an ARTCC or a TRACON). That means that supervisors, tech ops, and other resources could be pooled into one location. The catch is that no ARTCC has space available for something like this (all 20 centers are pushing 60 years old, and with a replacement cost of $600 million each, they don't come cheap), and it would require a lot of money to put in place. The FAA is just hoping for a reauthorization (I think we're on our 9th or 10th extension now), so these are pretty lofty goals, all things considered.

It'll happen someday, it's inevitable. It just probably won't happen on a noticeable scale for a very long time.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:03 am

atcsundevil wrote:
The idea is that the remote tower wouldn't be collocated with the airport. This idea is many, many years in the future, but a number of remote towers could be housed in the same facility (possibly either an ARTCC or a TRACON). That means that supervisors, tech ops, and other resources could be pooled into Bangalore


Fixed it for you.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:10 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The idea is that the remote tower wouldn't be collocated with the airport. This idea is many, many years in the future, but a number of remote towers could be housed in the same facility (possibly either an ARTCC or a TRACON). That means that supervisors, tech ops, and other resources could be pooled into Bangalore


Fixed it for you.

Under no circumstances would that ever happen. NATCA would never allow it (NATCA is very prolific and influential with its lobbying), and politically it would be a non-starter.
 
VS11
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:34 am

Here is a great article on the topic at hand:

Remote Towers
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/remote-towers/
 
VS11
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:43 am

atcsundevil wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The idea is that the remote tower wouldn't be collocated with the airport. This idea is many, many years in the future, but a number of remote towers could be housed in the same facility (possibly either an ARTCC or a TRACON). That means that supervisors, tech ops, and other resources could be pooled into Bangalore


Fixed it for you.

Under no circumstances would that ever happen. NATCA would never allow it (NATCA is very prolific and influential with its lobbying), and politically it would be a non-starter.


Not only that but technologically the video feed and radio communication will not be in real time. There will be some lag for all that video/audio network traffic to travel around the world.
 
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IrishTexan
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Re: Airport Traffic Controllers Trade the Tower for a Screen-Stuffed Cave

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:00 am

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