DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:28 pm

jfk777 wrote:
SO will it be Heathrow or Gatwick ? HA flies all over the Pacific region with their A330-200, the only reason to buy a 787-9 is to fly to Europe.


seems like 10 is a lot though. lhr slots are $$$ would have to think lgw
 
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:34 pm

789s will fly all over Asia too. Either to destinations just out of reach of the A332 or to places that can handle the capacity upgrade.
 
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O530CarrisPT
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:37 pm

Polot wrote:
Interesting that they selected the GEs when the A330s (and A338s) have/will have RR.


Indeed. They could have selected the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engine for the Boeing 787-9s (instead of the General Electric GEnx-1B) if they already have A330s (and A330neos) with Rolls-Royce engines.
Last edited by O530CarrisPT on Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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leleko747
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:37 pm

2018 and people still write 787-900 instead of 787-9?
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:37 pm

 
rlo4934
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:38 pm

Awesome!! Glad to see Hawaiian coming back to the Boeing fold. I wonder though, what are the chances Hawaiian will keep the 2-4-2 seating on the 787? Slim to none I imagine.
 
airzona11
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:41 pm

What a great looking plane.
 
george77300
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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:41 pm

Revelation wrote:
magga1 wrote:
Boeing announce Hawaiian 787 order

N328KF wrote:
Hawaiian just made the announcement: 10 orders, 10 options.

LAXintl wrote:
10+10 options 787-9
Delivery starts 2021

Congrats Boeing!

Congratulations, indeed.

I guess pendants can take solace in the fact that we haven't seen an A338 cancellation notice.

The HA announcement reads:

The company selected the 787-9 as part of a competitive bid process that also included the Airbus A330-900.

“We were in the enviable position of choosing between two outstanding models for our flagship aircraft of the future and I couldn’t be more excited about the prospect of adding the Dreamliner to Hawaiian’s fleet,” remarked Ingram.

Hope springs eternal for an A338 purchase?


Looks Final now after all speculation.

B787-9 Ordered
A330-800neo CANCELLED

SOURCE: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... or-446506/
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:41 pm

O530CarrisPT wrote:
Polot wrote:
Interesting that they selected the GEs when the A330s (and A338s) have/will have RR.


Indeed. They could have selected the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engine for the Boeing 787-9s (instead of the General Electric GEnx-1B) if they already have A330s (and A330neos) with Rolls-Royce engines.

Especially since we now have confirmation that they cancelled the A338. You would think RR would try and keep HA in the Trent fold, but GE must have offered a great deal.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Odd they are going GEnX. I figured they would go Trent no matter what.
 
bigjku
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:42 pm

jfk777 wrote:
SO will it be Heathrow or Gatwick ? HA flies all over the Pacific region with their A330-200, the only reason to buy a 787-9 is to fly to Europe.


I think being realistic the first 10 are replacing the A338 order and the 10 options exist for later to replace the A332 they have. This is an airline with 30 widebodies in operation and they ordered and optioned 2/3rds that amount today. I don’t doubt they will run the A332 to the end but I would guess you see them being replaced by executed 787 options as they go away.
 
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm

rlo4934 wrote:
Awesome!! Glad to see Hawaiian coming back to the Boeing fold. I wonder though, what are the chances Hawaiian will keep the 2-4-2 seating on the 787? Slim to none I imagine.


The renderings of their aircraft show 3-3-3 although this is obviously subject to change.
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travelhound
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm

HA stated in their press release the 787-9 will become their Flagship aircraft.

I'd suggest the A330's will be progressively swapped out (excluding growth) as the 787-9's arrive.
 
george77300
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm

Also this is confirmed to cancel their A330-800neo order.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... or-446506/

We now have a jet Airbus have built with no orders at all.
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O530CarrisPT
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:44 pm

ikolkyo wrote:


And now the A330-800neo is without orders... That was really a blow for the aircraft (unless of course Airbus can find other airlines available to purchase it, and it certainly will, because for some is a good alternative to the Boeing 787-8).
Last edited by O530CarrisPT on Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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airzona11
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:45 pm

bigjku wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SO will it be Heathrow or Gatwick ? HA flies all over the Pacific region with their A330-200, the only reason to buy a 787-9 is to fly to Europe.


I think being realistic the first 10 are replacing the A338 order and the 10 options exist for later to replace the A332 they have. This is an airline with 30 widebodies in operation and they ordered and optioned 2/3rds that amount today. I don’t doubt they will run the A332 to the end but I would guess you see them being replaced by executed 787 options as they go away.


If HA continues to expand their network/longer stage lengths, it is going to take more planes in the fleet.
 
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aviationfan12
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Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:45 pm

What is Hawaiian Airlines going to do the order for 6 A330-800neos? Are they going to be traded for A321neo's?
Last edited by aviationfan12 on Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Sooner787
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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:45 pm

Well, if United wants A338's as surmised in another thread, I bet they can drive a hell of a bargain on them now
 
cledaybuck
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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:45 pm

Revelation wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
This is literally how Leeham changed his story:

"I’ll concede I should have written that Hawaiian is “to” cancel the order (future tense), not that it “cancels” (present tense)."

But it's indeed all speculation from anyone's side right now in this discussion. There's something brewing, but we simply don't know how this will end until anything is officially announced by any of the companies involved (or not announced if the order isn't changed after all). Pretty much every possible scenario has already been mentioned in this thread, without new info this discussion can only continue in circles, only coming back to the same arguments over and over again.

It's not like that this kind of deals are always announced straight away after it's leaked. for example the Emirates 787-10 was only announced about 3 years after Saj Ahmad broke it for the first time.

The story, whether it's just smoke or if it's fire, is already in the aviation media, so whomever is the "loser" in this will have to issue an official or unofficial statement to "save face".

Sorry, folks, but there's more to the way the aviation industry communicates than just filing reports with the financial regulators.

If that's your standard then chances are you'll find all the info you need on the financial media sites.
Looks like Leeham was right.
 
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:46 pm

ikolkyo wrote:


Interesting. Really raises the question of what HA will do until 2021 for widebodies. Maybe HA just won't add any and focus on A321neos. Alternatively, they selectively add used A332s or leased 789s.
 
flyguy84
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:46 pm

george77300 wrote:
Also this is confirmed to cancel their A330-800neo order.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... or-446506/

We now have a jet Airbus have built with no orders at all.

I wonder if they’ll cut UA a sweet deal
SFO
 
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 pm

rlo4934 wrote:
Awesome!! Glad to see Hawaiian coming back to the Boeing fold. I wonder though, what are the chances Hawaiian will keep the 2-4-2 seating on the 787? Slim to none I imagine.


Our CEO is having a conference call as I write this. He just said that configurations for this aircraft have not been decided yet. Stay tuned!
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 pm

george77300 wrote:
rlo4934 wrote:
Awesome!! Glad to see Hawaiian coming back to the Boeing fold. I wonder though, what are the chances Hawaiian will keep the 2-4-2 seating on the 787? Slim to none I imagine.


The renderings of their aircraft show 3-3-3 although this is obviously subject to change.


I don't see those, do you have a link?
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:47 pm

 
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Revelation
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:48 pm

MO11 wrote:
The thread starter says "officially orders" while the text in the Tweet says "non-binding Letter of Intent". Which is it?

https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... ines-fleet says it's a LOI, and:

Hawaiian expects to finalize binding purchase agreements with Boeing and GE in the second quarter of this year. The company will also begin negotiating inclusion of the new aircraft in its contracts with the Air Line Pilots Association and the Association of Flight Attendants, which is required prior to final approval of the purchase by the company’s Board of Directors.
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:48 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
george77300 wrote:
rlo4934 wrote:
Awesome!! Glad to see Hawaiian coming back to the Boeing fold. I wonder though, what are the chances Hawaiian will keep the 2-4-2 seating on the 787? Slim to none I imagine.


The renderings of their aircraft show 3-3-3 although this is obviously subject to change.


I don't see those, do you have a link?


Yes sir.

https://twitter.com/HawaiianAir/status/ ... 2437377026

On Hawaiians Twitter there is a 2 minute video with lots of cinematics showing the painted bird flying along with interior shots of a 3-3-3 Economy layout.
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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:49 pm

Cancelled on the 27th, a full week ago. But I thought HA must immediately disclose a cancellation ;)
 
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:50 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
aviationfan12 wrote:
What is Hawaiian Airlines going to do the order for 6 A330-800neos? Are they going to be traded for A321neo's?


They might be able to transfer some deposits/payments to A321neo if Airbus are nice or maybe as part of the deal Boeing paid them off. We won’t know probably.
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B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788

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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:54 pm

Just goes to prove you shouldn't believe 99% of what is said on Anet. Scott Hamiliton is owed an apology from many
 
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:55 pm

They cancelled the A338s so they need to firm the 787, unless they want to be with no new planes for even longer.
 
panam330
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Re: It's Official, Hawaiian Chooses The 787-9's

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:57 pm

Yeeeesssss! Congratulations to HA! Pretty sweet note for Mark Dunkerley to leave the company on, too. A solid step forward for the company with the 789. Combined with the rest of the 321neos, I look forward to seeing how the network transforms once they're all on property.
 
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:59 pm

george77300 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
aviationfan12 wrote:
What is Hawaiian Airlines going to do the order for 6 A330-800neos? Are they going to be traded for A321neo's?


They might be able to transfer some deposits/payments to A321neo if Airbus are nice or maybe as part of the deal Boeing paid them off. We won’t know probably.


Most likely they owe nothing when everything is totaled up. The A338 are late if I recall correctly. They are a substitute for the A358 that got cancelled on them. The A320’s they have been getting have engine issues that probably trigger penalties as well.
 
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aviationfan12
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:00 pm

And Currently, both A321neos are grounded due to the PW Engine issue which probably makes Hawaiian very frustrated with Airbus currently.
 
george77300
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:00 pm

bigjku wrote:
george77300 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
aviationfan12 wrote:
What is Hawaiian Airlines going to do the order for 6 A330-800neos? Are they going to be traded for A321neo's?


They might be able to transfer some deposits/payments to A321neo if Airbus are nice or maybe as part of the deal Boeing paid them off. We won’t know probably.


Most likely they owe nothing when everything is totaled up. The A338 are late if I recall correctly. They are a substitute for the A358 that got cancelled on them. The A320’s they have been getting have engine issues that probably trigger penalties as well.


This is also very much a probability. After Airbus cancelled the A358 I bet Hawaiian got an insane deal on the A330neo. Also with them being late as well as problematic and now some grounded A321neos I think you could well be correct.
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TropicalSky
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:02 pm

Guess we are seeing where all the delivery slots are going as Boeing increase production
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:05 pm

aviationfan12 wrote:
And Currently, both A321neos are grounded due to the PW Engine issue which probably makes Hawaiian very frustrated with Airbus currently.


Both look to be flying according to FR24.
 
marcelh
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:06 pm

george77300 wrote:
bigjku wrote:
george77300 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]

They might be able to transfer some deposits/payments to A321neo if Airbus are nice or maybe as part of the deal Boeing paid them off. We won’t know probably.


Most likely they owe nothing when everything is totaled up. The A338 are late if I recall correctly. They are a substitute for the A358 that got cancelled on them. The A320’s they have been getting have engine issues that probably trigger penalties as well.


This is also very much a probability. After Airbus cancelled the A358 I bet Hawaiian got an insane deal on the A330neo. Also with them being late as well as problematic and now some grounded A321neos I think you could well be correct.

And now HA got an insane deal from Boeing. Those guys at HA know how to do business. :bigthumbsup:
 
bigjku
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:09 pm

The more interesting question is can airbus sell the frames already in the pipeline and find someone to carry on the program for the A338 model or do you shut down that program after certification? Or do you stop all work on it period?
 
anstar
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:10 pm

O530CarrisPT wrote:
Polot wrote:
Interesting that they selected the GEs when the A330s (and A338s) have/will have RR.


Indeed. They could have selected the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engine for the Boeing 787-9s (instead of the General Electric GEnx-1B) if they already have A330s (and A330neos) with Rolls-Royce engines.


Perhaps they are being buyer beware after all the issues with the RR 787 engines that have caused airlines to ground part of their 787 fleets?
 
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O530CarrisPT
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:11 pm

anstar wrote:
O530CarrisPT wrote:
Polot wrote:
Interesting that they selected the GEs when the A330s (and A338s) have/will have RR.


Indeed. They could have selected the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engine for the Boeing 787-9s (instead of the General Electric GEnx-1B) if they already have A330s (and A330neos) with Rolls-Royce engines.


Perhaps they are being buyer beware after all the issues with the RR 787 engines that have caused airlines to ground part of their 787 fleets?


I don't know, but is likely to be the case that HA is here being more cautious and selecting the GE's GEnx-1B after the corrosion problems with the RR Trent 1000 engines on the 787 fleets of another airlines.
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:12 pm

bigjku wrote:
The more interesting question is can airbus sell the frames already in the pipeline and find someone to carry on the program for the A338 model or do you shut down that program after certification? Or do you stop all work on it period?

Airbus certainly wouldn’t shut down after certification. If for whatever reason they wanted to shut down the A338 program now they would do so before going through all the trouble and expense of certifying it.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:14 pm

I wonder if they may be keen on getting B789s sooner if the HNA group of airlines collapses, to get some on the cheap in addition to this order of 10+10.
 
george77300
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:14 pm

bigjku wrote:
The more interesting question is can airbus sell the frames already in the pipeline and find someone to carry on the program for the A338 model or do you shut down that program after certification? Or do you stop all work on it period?


They will certify the program and keep going. Orders will come I sure as the worlds rather new A332/A333 fleets get older. I’m sure they will get some orders from China at some point to.

The A338 is also the base to a freighter or MRTT aircraft so they will continue the program definitely.
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ikramerica
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:15 pm

I wonder if part of the deal will involve Boeing performing/eating the cost of any necessary heavy checks to keep the remaining 767s flying until the 789s arrive?
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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:17 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Just goes to prove you shouldn't believe 99% of what is said on Anet. Scott Hamiliton is owed an apology from many


For what? The fact that he botched the breaking news, which then forced HA to deny the news, only to turn around and print a clarification, and to now see it be confirmed - he created the confusion.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian officially orders 10 B787-9 aircraft

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:17 pm

ikramerica wrote:
I wonder if part of the deal will involve Boeing performing/eating the cost of any necessary heavy checks to keep the remaining 767s flying until the 789s arrive?

Doubt it. There are only a handful left, and they can be replaced by A321s. HA even stuck a deal with Boeing to get out of a few 767 leases early.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:19 pm

bigjku wrote:
The more interesting question is can airbus sell the frames already in the pipeline and find someone to carry on the program for the A338 model or do you shut down that program after certification? Or do you stop all work on it period?


This would presumably be a basis for an MRTT or freighter, and so I see it being offered.
 
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Revelation
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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:22 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Just goes to prove you shouldn't believe 99% of what is said on Anet. Scott Hamiliton is owed an apology from many


For what? The fact that he botched the breaking news, which then forced HA to deny the news, only to turn around and print a clarification, and to now see it be confirmed - he created the confusion.

The only part he got wrong was the timing of the A338 cancellation.

The rest of the "breaking news" was correct.
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ikramerica
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Re: A330-800 out, B787-9 in at Hawaiian? -Leeham

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:22 pm

Hamilton was wrong in that they didn’t cancel when he first broke the news. But by the time Zeke was insisting that he changed his information 4 days ago, HA had by then already canceled the A338...
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bigjku
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Re: Hawaiian Airlines A330neo's?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:27 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
bigjku wrote:
The more interesting question is can airbus sell the frames already in the pipeline and find someone to carry on the program for the A338 model or do you shut down that program after certification? Or do you stop all work on it period?


This would presumably be a basis for an MRTT or freighter, and so I see it being offered.


How many more MRTT’s are they going to sell that make it worth whatever the expense of recertifying things onto the new model is? The ones just sold will be flying 40 years from now most likely. These aren’t commercial frames. Their life cycles have barely started. As far as I know most major European powers have bought their planes already. What’s the further market here and when will it develop?

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