Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
workhorse
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:11 pm

workhorse wrote:
dealing with all the hostility of which a lot of examples some of you guys show in these threads.


Flighty wrote:
stay home, or put it into a trusted storage place at home, then fly. If you must travel with it, fly private. If you must travel for your job with your gun on an airliner, you have made the decision to quit that job because you aren't able to follow society's rules. You aren't allowed to bring it onboard. Nobody wants your epileptic dog, or elephant, or blue whale, or tarantula on the airplane for 10 hours. So, they made a rule against it and you can't do it. Pretty simple.


vikkyvik wrote:
Options:
1.) Ask a friend or family to watch him and give him his meds.
2.) Find a good pet-hotel or pet boarding place that will take care of him and give him his meds.
3.) Ask your vet for recommendations of places to have him stay during your absence


questions wrote:
Board the dog or find a new job.

Why should other passengers in the tight confines of an aircraft have to deal with your problem?


filipair wrote:
This situation sounds like primarily an emotional dependence on the part of you and your dog, for which you should seek resolution without delay.


millionsofmiles wrote:
The support animal provisions of the law have to do with an animal supporting YOUR needs, not the other way around. You shouldn't get to pass your dog off as a support animal if he's the one with the problem.


nine4nine wrote:
Um find a dog sitter, or look into a pet hotel.


This is exactly the type of judgmental bigotry I was talking about. Thank you so much you wise people for opening my eyes and showing me the way! Leave the dog at home or stay home myself. Wow! How could THAT not come to my mind?!

/// On a side note, thank you (a sincere one this time) to Mariner and Spacecadet for their humanity. I am not sure that dogs are allowed on cruise and cargo ships but I'll check it out, if the necessity to migrate to North America appears again at some point in my life. ///

Now, I am on a.net since 13 years, I knew what kind of responses to expect. I also know that I am a minority here and it's useless to argue, so I will just leave you all to indulge in your righteousness.

The reason why I wrote this is becaise there might be some airline decision makers reading this, so my message is for them:

Look! There is a market here. There's quite a lot of us and most are ready to pay (maybe not the $70,000 that a private flight costs, but much more than a regular business class fare, at least as far as I am concerned).

You are a business, there is a customer need so find a solution! It cannot be that difficult (actually the most difficult part will not be to find a place for the dog to sit or lie down or to make sure the dog doesn't bite anyone, it will be to separate the dog with its owner and the bigots). Find a legal a reliable solution and you will get a very healthy revenue stream and quite a bit of loyalty too.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 691
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:37 am

DXTraveler wrote:
What about a support Cougar? :spin:


Two or four legged? ;-)[/quote]

They used to have them, but Hooters Air went out of business.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3630
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:54 am

estorilm wrote:
United787 wrote:
I think there is a simple solution. Support animals should have no possibility of affecting the other passengers in a negative way. It should be small enough to fit into a carrier that is small enough to fit under the seat in front of you, period. It should remain inside it's cage for the duration of the trip. It should also be hypoallergenic. There should be a finite list of pre-approved animals... no snakes, no scorpions and no great white sharks for starters...

My wife experienced the same large support dog for this woman on two different flights within the same week. The dog could not only not fit under the seat in front of her, it was in the legroom space of her neighbors. I don't understand how this is even legal. If luggage is required to be stowed and passengers required to be buckled during take off and landing... why are support animals exempt from that same requirement?

It doesn't really work like that. Perhaps size could be screened somehow for a "support animal" - however many are forgetting that these "support dogs" are being used under the guise of service animals, and per ADA regulations can not be questioned nor denied access. The protections for such animals are VERY strong.

Of course those laws were drawn up in the pre-"tide pod eating generation" era where common sense prevailed - now everything is just chaos. Unfortunately, in order to protect those with legitimate needs, it becomes difficult to weed out the ankle-biting chihuahuas and such.

A friend of mine has a number of different cardio problems, and the two of us helped train her mini Australian Shepherd (though he's typical size of a small standard Aussie) from a puppy to be her cardiac alert dog. After hundreds of hours and every class available, including AKC canine good citizen training and achievement, advanced handling classes, on top of all the cardiac alert training, he is absolutely perfect in public.

Most of these people don't have the slightest idea how to teach their dog to sit, much less the training required to have a safe and well-mannered dog in public. Planes are an even higher level of achievement. But nope, lets just throw the ankle-biter with zero training or manners into the purse and head off to the airport. :mad: Makes me absolutely furious.

In any event, whatever you propose eventually comes back to requiring some kind of separation of service dogs with "support animals" - which would require re-writing the ADA laws and regs on anonymity and vetting, identification, etc of current (legitimate) service dogs. Unfortunately I think that's the bottom line - there does need to be some formal way of doing that, while maintaining adequate privacy. If this can be achieved, the INSANE number of fake animals will be denied instantly. This would apply to malls, stores, etc too - I mean people literally buy patches on amazon and slap them on a vest and just carry their pets around everywhere. Grrr.

Okay.. /rant sorry.



Actually the ADA does not cover anything but Helper Dogs & Helper Mini Ponies. Emotional support animals are clearly listed on the ADA helper animal fact sheet as not being covered under the ADA. Dogs for PTSD & ADD children are helper dogs, not emotional support animal. They are trained to distract the person when they start having a PTSD episode or when an ADD child acts up. They are not there for emotional support.

The Air Carrier version "that is different" than the ADA one does allow emotional support animals. The need to correct this and limit some as Peacocks for instance cannot be trained for emotional support & are quite aggressive at their own odd whims and will suddenly attack you. So they should be required to fit under the seat in a carrier or it's a no go. Birds in general are an issue due to avian flu issues that crop up now and then.

The ADA needs to be amended to allow you to ask for proof that they were trained in the form of a government issued card. Many People I know with legit helper dogs would not have a problem carrying a card for proof. Before we get the "it's a burden" comments. disabled people usually have some for of insurance that they have to have a card & ID to access so it's no more burden than that.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12594
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:57 am

workhorse wrote:
This is exactly the type of judgmental bigotry I was talking about.


No bigotry involved in my post whatsoever. You asked a question, I gave some options.

You never stated WHY you can't avail yourself of any of those options.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
User avatar
BartSimpson
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:01 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:28 am

AWACSooner wrote:
shankly wrote:
I'm based in Cape Town and tempted to show up for my next flight back to London with a support Great White

With what water to hold him in? ;)


The ocean around CPT is still full with saltwater. No worries!
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:13 am

My biggest peeve when I'm flying is when I'm asked to completely lower the window shade even when there's nice scenery visible outside.

From now on, I'm going to leave the shade open halfway to block the worst of the sunlight while still allowing me to enjoy the scenery. If anyone says I'm being selfish, I will say that I "suffer from extreme claustrophobia", and need to look outside to remain calm.

If other people insist on faking emotional issues to bring their animals on board, then it's okay for me to fake being claustrophobic.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7528
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:17 am

shankly wrote:
I'm based in Cape Town and tempted to show up for my next flight back to London with a support Great White


Image

You got a problem with my support animal?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:42 am

[quote="workhorse"When traveling within our country or even our continent I will happily drive (or take a train: dogs are allowed in trains in most of European countries) instead of dealing with all the hostility of which a lot of examples some of you guys show in these threads. But if, for work reasons, I have to cross an ocean, what do I do? Take a ship? There's no passenger ships between Europe and the Americas anymore. Fly private? It's $70,000. What do I do, tell me.[/quote]

What do you do? One of the following.

(1) You suck it up and pay for doggie daycare.
(2) You don't agree to take on the responsibility of caring for an epileptic dog.
(3) You don't fly.

Everyone insists their dog has angelic behavior. Even if that is true in your case, you still have the problem of proving it. The mere fact that it's a golden retriever is irrelevant. You can't set up some rule that says goldens are OK, but pit bulls are not. And of course no golden has never bitten anyone, anywhere.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20563
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:43 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
[quote="workhorse"When traveling within our country or even our continent I will happily drive (or take a train: dogs are allowed in trains in most of European countries) instead of dealing with all the hostility of which a lot of examples some of you guys show in these threads. But if, for work reasons, I have to cross an ocean, what do I do? Take a ship? There's no passenger ships between Europe and the Americas anymore. Fly private? It's $70,000. What do I do, tell me.


What do you do? One of the following.

(1) You suck it up and pay for doggie daycare.
(2) You don't agree to take on the responsibility of caring for an epileptic dog.
(3) You don't fly.

Everyone insists their dog has angelic behavior. Even if that is true in your case, you still have the problem of proving it. The mere fact that it's a golden retriever is irrelevant. You can't set up some rule that says goldens are OK, but pit bulls are not. And of course no golden has never bitten anyone, anywhere.[/quote]
Surly Bonds,
Cunard still goes TATL by ship:
http://www.cunard.com/cruise-types/tran ... c-cruises/

$1,149 each way, but you are paying for a hotel.

I refer to my post on JetBlue, sensible rules (dog in a bag, sorry Golden's are too big). Or put the dog in the cargo hold. There is a reason the cargo heating system is universally known among engineers as the "Doggie warmer."

Sorry the dog has issues, but at some point its a dog. I love the Pug I bought for my kids. But it is a dog that is subject to Kenneling whenever I fly to somewhere it isn't convenient to bring the thing and Pugs go neurotic without attention!

Or another option, train the dog as a service dog. I know exactly how much work that is as multiple friends of mine raise seeing eye dogs as their charity work.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:07 pm

workhorse wrote:
workhorse wrote:
dealing with all the hostility of which a lot of examples some of you guys show in these threads.


Flighty wrote:
stay home, or put it into a trusted storage place at home, then fly. If you must travel with it, fly private. If you must travel for your job with your gun on an airliner, you have made the decision to quit that job because you aren't able to follow society's rules. You aren't allowed to bring it onboard. Nobody wants your epileptic dog, or elephant, or blue whale, or tarantula on the airplane for 10 hours. So, they made a rule against it and you can't do it. Pretty simple.


vikkyvik wrote:
Options:
1.) Ask a friend or family to watch him and give him his meds.
2.) Find a good pet-hotel or pet boarding place that will take care of him and give him his meds.
3.) Ask your vet for recommendations of places to have him stay during your absence


questions wrote:
Board the dog or find a new job.

Why should other passengers in the tight confines of an aircraft have to deal with your problem?


filipair wrote:
This situation sounds like primarily an emotional dependence on the part of you and your dog, for which you should seek resolution without delay.


millionsofmiles wrote:
The support animal provisions of the law have to do with an animal supporting YOUR needs, not the other way around. You shouldn't get to pass your dog off as a support animal if he's the one with the problem.


nine4nine wrote:
Um find a dog sitter, or look into a pet hotel.


This is exactly the type of judgmental bigotry I was talking about. Thank you so much you wise people for opening my eyes and showing me the way! Leave the dog at home or stay home myself. Wow! How could THAT not come to my mind?!

/// On a side note, thank you (a sincere one this time) to Mariner and Spacecadet for their humanity. I am not sure that dogs are allowed on cruise and cargo ships but I'll check it out, if the necessity to migrate to North America appears again at some point in my life. ///

Now, I am on a.net since 13 years, I knew what kind of responses to expect. I also know that I am a minority here and it's useless to argue, so I will just leave you all to indulge in your righteousness.

The reason why I wrote this is becaise there might be some airline decision makers reading this, so my message is for them:

Look! There is a market here. There's quite a lot of us and most are ready to pay (maybe not the $70,000 that a private flight costs, but much more than a regular business class fare, at least as far as I am concerned).

You are a business, there is a customer need so find a solution! It cannot be that difficult (actually the most difficult part will not be to find a place for the dog to sit or lie down or to make sure the dog doesn't bite anyone, it will be to separate the dog with its owner and the bigots). Find a legal a reliable solution and you will get a very healthy revenue stream and quite a bit of loyalty too.



Not forms of bigotry whatsoever. You asked a question and a majority of the flying public is stating they’re opinion. I don’t seem to get what you can’t comprehend.

-some people are allergic including myself.
-some people hate dogs or are fearful of them. My wife was mauled as a 2 year old baby by the family dog and almost died and had scars on her head and face to this day and Is very fearlfyl of them especially in closed quarters.
- been on a flight with a barking dog that won’t stop barking
- seen a dog shit in the aisle 4 hours into a 7 hour flight and had to gag smelling shit for 3 hours in recirculated air
-seen an “emotional support dog aggressively bark at pax in the terminal gate area.


Solution. Leave the damn pooch at home. They will survive while you are away. They may be a little upset with you when you get home but will get over it rather quickly over a fresh can of Alpo or a new bone. Your little convenience of inseparable bond with your dog is a major inconvenience to the masses for many various reasons. If you cant live without your dog invest in a kennel and check it in at checked baggage.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
User avatar
millionsofmiles
Posts: 374
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:18 am

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:36 am

workhorse wrote:
workhorse wrote:
dealing with all the hostility of which a lot of examples some of you guys show in these threads.


Flighty wrote:
stay home, or put it into a trusted storage place at home, then fly. If you must travel with it, fly private. If you must travel for your job with your gun on an airliner, you have made the decision to quit that job because you aren't able to follow society's rules. You aren't allowed to bring it onboard. Nobody wants your epileptic dog, or elephant, or blue whale, or tarantula on the airplane for 10 hours. So, they made a rule against it and you can't do it. Pretty simple.


vikkyvik wrote:
Options:
1.) Ask a friend or family to watch him and give him his meds.
2.) Find a good pet-hotel or pet boarding place that will take care of him and give him his meds.
3.) Ask your vet for recommendations of places to have him stay during your absence


questions wrote:
Board the dog or find a new job.

Why should other passengers in the tight confines of an aircraft have to deal with your problem?


filipair wrote:
This situation sounds like primarily an emotional dependence on the part of you and your dog, for which you should seek resolution without delay.


millionsofmiles wrote:
The support animal provisions of the law have to do with an animal supporting YOUR needs, not the other way around. You shouldn't get to pass your dog off as a support animal if he's the one with the problem.


nine4nine wrote:
Um find a dog sitter, or look into a pet hotel.


This is exactly the type of judgmental bigotry I was talking about. Thank you so much you wise people for opening my eyes and showing me the way! Leave the dog at home or stay home myself. Wow! How could THAT not come to my mind?!

/// On a side note, thank you (a sincere one this time) to Mariner and Spacecadet for their humanity. I am not sure that dogs are allowed on cruise and cargo ships but I'll check it out, if the necessity to migrate to North America appears again at some point in my life. ///

Now, I am on a.net since 13 years, I knew what kind of responses to expect. I also know that I am a minority here and it's useless to argue, so I will just leave you all to indulge in your righteousness.

The reason why I wrote this is becaise there might be some airline decision makers reading this, so my message is for them:

Look! There is a market here. There's quite a lot of us and most are ready to pay (maybe not the $70,000 that a private flight costs, but much more than a regular business class fare, at least as far as I am concerned).

You are a business, there is a customer need so find a solution! It cannot be that difficult (actually the most difficult part will not be to find a place for the dog to sit or lie down or to make sure the dog doesn't bite anyone, it will be to separate the dog with its owner and the bigots). Find a legal a reliable solution and you will get a very healthy revenue stream and quite a bit of loyalty too.


Good grief. You want some cheese with that whine?

Your dog’s ride-along privileges are for your support, not his.

I love dogs but you’re too much.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 2341
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:49 pm

workhorse wrote:
Let me describe you a situation. I have a 4-years old golden retriever who has never caused any trouble to anyone. He loves life, he loves people and he loves me (well in this last case it's more than love, I am what makes his world go round, when I am there he's fine no matter what, when I'm not, he's sad and anxious no matter what). Unfortunately, he is epileptic.

Let me describe a much more common situation. I have a 4 month old baby who has never caused any trouble to anyone. He loves life, he loves people and he loves me (well in this last case it's more than love, I am what makes his world go round, when I am there he's fine no matter what, when I'm not, he's sad and anxious no matter what).

In my case, I can take him with me on board an aircraft, but here's the thing..... it isn't really kind to drag him all over the world if my job demands foreign travel. So guess what? Yeah, I changed my job. I found a job that pays less, but I can stay close. Hell, the guy in charge even let's me out of work early if I get a call that that my baby needs attention.

Millions upon millions upon millions of (mostly) women have faced exactly this same scenario, and somehow they managed to find a solution.

In some enlightened countries, crèches are provided at the workplace. Indeed, I have even attended Conferences where I was able to bring along my child and place them in a dedicated crèche, free of charge.
This is the UN at Geneva; http://www.staffcoordinatingcouncil.org/Docs/creche.PDF

That's the situation regarding HUMAN BABIES. And if my employer put me in a position where I would have to be separated from my child, it's time to change jobs.

It may seem extremely unfair to you, but what you are talking about is a DOG. And if you cannot find it in your heart to change your lifestyle so that you can be with it when it needs you, then you obviously don't love it enough.

workhorse wrote:
.... there is no way in hell I put him alone into a cage that is going to be kicked, thrown, left for hours on the ramp in the cold, put for 10+ hours into a cargo hold where it's dark, sometimes freezing and full of frightening (for a dog) noises.
Oh, such drama. And such utter drivel.
I cannot speak for all countries, but at LHR, they have HARC - Heathrow Animal Reception Centre, part of the City of London, a public body and not part of the commercial side of LHR. Animal welfare will be high on their list of priorities, and if it isn't they will have the another organisation known as the RSPCA on their backs.
And if both of them slip up, you can be sure one of countless dog-loving airport workers will kick up a stink.
https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/service ... fault.aspx

workhorse wrote:
And let's not even talk about all the cases where dog crates have been lost, loaded on a wrong flight, not loaded in time and then left waiting 24 hours until the next flight without anyone bothering to take the dog for a walk, not even giving it water...
You're right, let's not even talk about all these cases which don't exist except in your paranoid imagination.

workhorse wrote:
This is exactly the type of judgmental bigotry I was talking about. Thank you so much you wise people for opening my eyes and showing me the way! Leave the dog at home or stay home myself. Wow! How could THAT not come to my mind?!
Yeah, it's a mystery to me too, why a solution that has been employed by billions of women for decades just doesn't figure in your head.

workhorse wrote:
Now, I am on a.net since 13 years, I knew what kind of responses to expect. I also know that I am a minority here and it's useless to argue,
It isn't just a.net where your views are only supported by a minority, an exceedingly small minority; take a trip in the world outside.


workhorse wrote:
Look! There is a market here. There's quite a lot of us and most are ready to pay (maybe not the $70,000 that a private flight costs, but much more than a regular business class fare, at least as far as I am concerned).
Pure fantasy. There are not quite a lot of you; and even fewer prepared to pay much more than a regular business class fare, and there will be no "healthy revenue stream" for any airline finding a solution.

Finally; if you think the trans-atlantic service isn't good enough, I can't wait for your employer to send you off to Australia. There will be 10 days of quarantine imposed on your pet when entering Australia and that is after numerous other requirements have been met (I count SIX vet visits). Ask Jonny Depp.....
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/worl ... later.html
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
WWads
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:09 pm

You’re a bigot because muh feelings!!

People these days... :roll:
 
User avatar
WesternDC6B
Posts: 574
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:15 pm

DXTraveler wrote:
What about a support Cougar? :spin:


Two or four legged? ;-)[/quote]

Neither. 351 Cleveland and four-speed manual. :old:
Never employ grandios verbiage when the utilisation of diminutive phraseology will suffice.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:00 pm

3rdGen wrote:
I'm surprised it took this long. Are support animals properly trained or can anyone show up with an animal and claim that they require it for support?


Support dogs are very well trained as a whole. People always want to pet them and the owner has to tell them no, If the little girl or her parent did not heed the warning, this is not on the owner or WN,
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:31 am

WesternDC6B wrote:
DXTraveler wrote:
What about a support Cougar? :spin:


Two or four legged? ;-)


Neither. 351 Cleveland and four-speed manual. :old:[/quote]

With Vic Damone behind the wheel, and Lee Iacocca alongside it.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6265
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: "support dog" bites child on Southwest Airlines

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:25 am

Blankbarcode wrote:
people wouldn't be abusing the system if the quality for animal transport wasn't so low. Stories of animals dying due to negligence, severe weather restrictions (though fairly justified), and just high costs have made even me think about the support animal ordeal. How else is one supposed to move to another country and take what is essentially their family with them?


Maybe if people spared a thought or two about their lifestyle vs. the needs of an animal before buying one, things would be much easier. Also, treating animals as animals and not as a person in a fur (to whom the owners project all kinds of their delusions) would help a lot.
Costs? Your problem. If you can't afford it and/or don't want to adjust your lifestyle, don't get an animal. Simple as that.
It's also quite interesting that people who (allegedly) love animals are willing to put them through all kinds of traumatizing ordeals only because of their selfishness and inconsideration towards the animal.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos