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KarelXWB
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EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:25 am

Emirates warns the US to not open Pandora's box by even trying to renegotiate the Open Skies agreement:

Emirates (EK, Dubai Int'l) CEO Tim Clark has warned American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, and United Airlines not to pursue a renegotiation of the Open Skies pact between the United States and the United Arab Emirates as such a move would need to be followed by similar steps taken with regard to Asian and European agreements.

"In the case, you take action against us because we are successful at what we do, you open a Pandora's box of headaches because effectively you have to change everything," he told Reuters.


Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:

The Emirates boss also warned that should the Open Skies pact with the US be scrapped or renegotiated, the carrier may be forced to reconsider its orders with Boeing (BOE, Chicago O'Hare) for thirty-five B777-8s and 115 B777-9s.


Article
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... egotiation
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xwb777
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:34 am

If the US government was want to renegotiate the open skies policy, they would have done it long time ago.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:57 am

The US has a hefty trade surplus with the UAE in regards to services and goods combined. Any trade wars will hurt the USA more than the UAE.
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:13 am

KarelXWB wrote:

Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:

The Emirates boss also warned that should the Open Skies pact with the US be scrapped or renegotiated, the carrier may be forced to reconsider its orders with Boeing (BOE, Chicago O'Hare) for thirty-five B777-8s and 115 B777-9s.


That's a pretty substantial threat to say the least.

What would EK do to replace the 777 and 777X? The A350s are imperfect substitutes... Although on the other hand Emirates is apparently feeling the brunt of excess capacity.
 
fsabo
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:51 am

StudiodeKadent wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:

The Emirates boss also warned that should the Open Skies pact with the US be scrapped or renegotiated, the carrier may be forced to reconsider its orders with Boeing (BOE, Chicago O'Hare) for thirty-five B777-8s and 115 B777-9s.


That's a pretty substantial threat to say the least.

What would EK do to replace the 777 and 777X? The A350s are imperfect substitutes... Although on the other hand Emirates is apparently feeling the brunt of excess capacity.


A fleet of A380NEOs and A351 could work. Stick approach towards RR did not work. Maybe they could try carrot. RR powered 787s and A351s could get them an A380NEO.
 
UAEflyer
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:55 am

Surprising move by EK, from the past arguments between EK & US3 , they take the calm none escalation way. This time it seems that they are frustrated. There is one step that EK yet not excersing , to split EK from the other two (EY & QR). Without a doubt the other two are subsidised directly through government banks and financial guarantees, but not EK. I knew from a.net that EK is paying their owner dividends not the other way around.
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:14 am

fsabo wrote:
StudiodeKadent wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:



That's a pretty substantial threat to say the least.

What would EK do to replace the 777 and 777X? The A350s are imperfect substitutes... Although on the other hand Emirates is apparently feeling the brunt of excess capacity.


A fleet of A380NEOs and A351 could work. Stick approach towards RR did not work. Maybe they could try carrot. RR powered 787s and A351s could get them an A380NEO.



Very interesting point. RR on the 787-10s, cancelling the 777Xs and replacing with A359-ULRs and A350-1000s.... that would probably make Airbus willing to do some pretty damn drastic acts.

That said, if EK cancels their order? Whoa.... it would obliterate the 777X program. It would be tragic for Boeing.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:20 am

only words........EK needs the B777X
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:25 am

pabloeing wrote:
only words........EK needs the B777X

Boeing needs EK more, especially the 777X
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:38 am

UAEflyer wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
only words........EK needs the B777X

Boeing needs EK more, especially the 777X


I agree, EK could go for the A350 to replace B77X and B787, and even more A380, and I am sure Airbus will be ready to close the deal and give very good slots to Emirates should this huge deal happen. However I think this will never happen.

I think next move is EK to ATL to make and statement to Delta. :-) , lately EK is adding many new flights, so I won't be surprise.

I don't think the USA will do anything against the UAE, it's a very important partner, economically and politically in the region, specially since UAE is very very close to the KSA also and not very friendly with Iran, so they keeping both happy is quite necessary for the geopolitics of the Gulf.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:52 am

EK burned their A350XWB bridge twice already. I think that the US3 are in a position to take over half of the EK B777X order just to get them off their backs.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:00 pm

This is Airbus' order to lose...
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:06 pm

neomax wrote:
This is Airbus' order to lose...

???

The order has already gone to Boeing. This is definitely one for Boeing to lose.

Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that Boeing will lose this order unless either (a) Boeing screw up on getting the 77X up to spec and/or suffer significant delivery delays, or (b) Trump takes an interest in the US3/ME3 spat.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:09 pm

pabloeing wrote:
only words........EK needs the B777X


For what? There are A350 and A380. Losing Emirates 777-8/9 order, would go a long way to kill the 777-8/9.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:09 pm

It always works in two ways...Bigly
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:11 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
EK burned their A350XWB bridge twice already. I think that the US3 are in a position to take over half of the EK B777X order just to get them off their backs.


EK has, what, 150 777-8 and -9 on order to replace a similar number of 77W? The US3 (actually, it's just AA and UA) has a total of, what, 40 77W operating or on order? What on earth makes you think they can replace even half of the EK order? Even if they did, that'd be a loss of 75 frames + however many LH might cancel or convert, putting the whole program in serious jeopardy.

The thing is, without EK there'll be no A380 and no 777-8/9.
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Arion640
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:21 pm

Airbus would pull out all the stops if it got to the point where Emirates would cancel the 777X. It would also give leverage for an A380neo.

I imagine Emirates would keep the 787-10 order then order majority A35K and some A359ULR like mentioned above.

Probably won't come to that though.
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IndianicWorld
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:28 pm

I don’t disagree with this course of action by EK. Playing the diplomatic and calm approach has just seen the US3 try and gain more of the headlines.

What has to be made clear is that for every action there is a reaction, and UAE have a few very strong cards in their deck to play if the US3 continue to play this game. It will effect far more than just the airlines, but if a decision to walk away from the 77X orders was taken it could be a big dent to jobs in the US.

The tiring rhetoric from the US3 needs to stop and they should just focus on their own businesses. They really only have themselves to blame in many cases for their lack of a competitive position that has lead to this endless whinging and PR spin.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:31 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Airbus would pull out all the stops if it got to the point where Emirates would cancel the 777X. It would also give leverage for an A380neo.

I imagine Emirates would keep the 787-10 order then order majority A35K and some A359ULR like mentioned above.

Probably won't come to that though.


I think that it is not a case of Emirates choosing. It is simply a message to the USA. If you do "that" we will do "this". The threat of "this" merely needs to be credible. What happens depends upon the USA, not Emirates.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:36 pm

Good to see EK stand up for itself , the benefits of the current deal far outweigh the moaning and complaining of the dreadful US3
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:45 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
EK burned their A350XWB bridge twice already. I think that the US3 are in a position to take over half of the EK B777X order just to get them off their backs.


EK has, what, 150 777-8 and -9 on order to replace a similar number of 77W? The US3 (actually, it's just AA and UA) has a total of, what, 40 77W operating or on order? What on earth makes you think they can replace even half of the EK order? Even if they did, that'd be a loss of 75 frames + however many LH might cancel or convert, putting the whole program in serious jeopardy.

The thing is, without EK there'll be no A380 and no 777-8/9.


Exactly, it might not be pleasant to read but without EK both the 777-9/9 and the A380 will be history. As for the US3 taking over the 77X orders, if my memory serves me correctly only, the US2 has any 77W's . What is more, these have only arrived fairly recently and many have been at heavily discounted prices. Apart from a few routes the 77W and the 77X are too big for US carriers with their multi hubs.

None the less I'm sure this is posturing but, if it comes to a fight the 77X will be the looser in a big way. I have said partly before in jest, but the 777-8/9 is really a 777ME.
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:51 pm

fsabo wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Airbus would pull out all the stops if it got to the point where Emirates would cancel the 777X. It would also give leverage for an A380neo.

I imagine Emirates would keep the 787-10 order then order majority A35K and some A359ULR like mentioned above.

Probably won't come to that though.


I think that it is not a case of Emirates choosing. It is simply a message to the USA. If you do "that" we will do "this". The threat of "this" merely needs to be credible. What happens depends upon the USA, not Emirates.


Like I said it probably wouldn't come to anything, but the USA need to make sure Emirates are bluffing.

Also helps to keep Airbus at the ready if US/EK relations did take a turn for the worst.
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:51 pm

ugh the US govt can do as it likes and if it wants to defend its own businesses it can. It also has the right to have double standards and have freer agreements with Asian and European countries

UAE is a midget player that needs to Chill- yes please cancel the 777-X order. I am sure TK etc will happily swoop in to snatch the market you gave away

there are 1000's of 777's that needs to be replaced, only a matter of time before more airlines order the 777-9
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:05 pm

The USA is not a single entity, Delta does not care if an order gets canceled at Boeing. The airlines are in the fight to cover than own backside, they dont care who they have to take down in the process.
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:06 pm

speedbored wrote:
neomax wrote:
This is Airbus' order to lose...

???

The order has already gone to Boeing. This is definitely one for Boeing to lose.

Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that Boeing will lose this order unless either (a) Boeing screw up on getting the 77X up to spec and/or suffer significant delivery delays, or (b) Trump takes an interest in the US3/ME3 spat.


I know, "Airbus' order to lose" means that the only way they lose this order now is if things stay calm, which by the looks of things is not the case, hence Airbus will benefit if things get ugly between EK/US and win the replacement order. It's an inverted phrase, if you meant literally, then indeed it is Boeing's order to lose; the phrase is rhetorical so it says the opposite.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:21 pm

Kashmon wrote:
ugh the US govt can do as it likes and if it wants to defend its own businesses it can. It also has the right to have double standards and have freer agreements with Asian and European countries

UAE is a midget player that needs to Chill- yes please cancel the 777-X order. I am sure TK etc will happily swoop in to snatch the market you gave away

there are 1000's of 777's that needs to be replaced, only a matter of time before more airlines order the 777-9


Of course it wouldn’t only be EK walking away from the 77X, you would also lose EY and very likely QR (who wouldn’t escape renegotiation) too. That is a massive hole in the 77X program.

It won’t come to that though. But I agree EK has to remind the US what they stand to lose.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:22 pm

neomax wrote:
This is Airbus' order to lose...


Aren't most Airbus orders to(u)lo(u)se? :duck:
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:22 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
The US has a hefty trade surplus with the UAE in regards to services and goods combined. Any trade wars will hurt the USA more than the UAE.

Yes.

Trade wars are very destructive. No one wins. Although some nations (note the UAE) insist on always fighting a trade war, so it is just a matter of the other side standing up.

The US3, DL in particular, have been advocating a trade war. Not a wise strategy. This is a tough topic to discuss as so many people here on a.net (excludes you mjoelnir) do not understand bilaterals and how the only unilateral decision allowed is to revert back to a prior bilateral or cancel the bilateral. There is no imposing terms without the other side coming to the table to sign the document. For an unsigned document is nothing but paper.

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StudiodeKadent
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:32 pm

Kashmon wrote:
UAE is a midget player that needs to Chill- yes please cancel the 777-X order. I am sure TK etc will happily swoop in to snatch the market you gave away


The A350-1000 is only about 40 or so pax less than the 777-9.

It won't kill Emirates to switch. There is actually evidence of overcapacity in the market so there may be reasons for them to down-gauge. If a huge A350 order gets an A380neo then that order saves slots.

If EK replaces 777x's with A350s, they won't be "giving away the market." They'd probably at best be modestly reducing market share but lowering costs and perhaps slightly increasing yields.
 
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RL777
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:47 pm

The fact that the US3 are still on this train despite operating in protectionist market is fairly absurd. I'm near certain nothing will come of this but the posturing from the Americans is quite arrogant.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The US has a hefty trade surplus with the UAE in regards to services and goods combined. Any trade wars will hurt the USA more than the UAE.

Yes.

Trade wars are very destructive. No one wins. Although some nations (note the UAE) insist on always fighting a trade war, so it is just a matter of the other side standing up.

The US3, DL in particular, have been advocating a trade war. Not a wise strategy. This is a tough topic to discuss as so many people here on a.net (excludes you mjoelnir) do not understand bilaterals and how the only unilateral decision allowed is to revert back to a prior bilateral or cancel the bilateral. There is no imposing terms without the other side coming to the table to sign the document. For an unsigned document is nothing but paper.

Lightsaber


What trade war is the UAE waging? What USA goods carry customs, what USA services carry taxes? You do not seem to understand trade, it is usually about you selling one thing and I am selling you something else. First, a bilateral regarding air traffic takes into account all air traffic not only flying passengers. Second, any trade agreement, and a bilateral regarding air traffic is a trade agreement, takes mark on the whole trade situation between those countries. If you are running overall a significant trade surplus, you do not have the best situation to point to one area were you are not at a surplus.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:37 pm

If the US were to renegotiate open skies I wonder how it would impact EK's growth plans here in the US? It is no secret that EK has its eyes set on grabbing a bigger piece of the lucrative US - European market. Every few months we have a thread speculating about which US - European market EK will venture into, there was even a thread started a few days ago asking could EK use 5th freedom rights to start MCO-LHR-MCO flights. It is very clear what EK's future plans are what we don't know are the future routes EK will utilize their 5th freedoms right on. So while people are laser focused on the impact renegotiations would have on Boeings 777x program I wonder what the impact would be on EKs plans for growth here in the US.
EK has a lot of aircraft in their fleet and they have a lot of aircraft on order all of them VLA's some of these aircraft on order will be used to replaced existing aircraft while others will be used for growth. Renegotiating open skies would put EK's US - European growth plans on ice and result in EK having a surplus of aircraft and no where to send them. EK is simply trying to protect their future plans while US3 and European carriers are trying to protect their highly lucrative US-European-US routes from the disruptive force that is EK.
No matter how you splice this someone is going to be disappointed it will either be Boeing and EK, or the US3 and major European carriers. I think it will come down to who wields more power and influence in Washington DC is it the US3 and their European counterparts or is it EK?
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:40 pm

The 777 is the most important airplane in Emirates fleet today and 20 years from now. While EK currently loves their A380 years from now what will replace them ? Probably a large twin like a 777 or A350 or something new. Years from now the 777-9 and 787-10 will be the core of the Emirates fleet, Airbus will halt A380 production at some point unless China suddenly orders 50 whales, The A380 also is a guzzler like a 1960's Cadillac, in a market of high oil prices its appeal could be less.

Boeing needs Emirates and EK needs Boeing, the US3 flights to Dubai will always be less or next to nothing compared to Emirates flights to America. Emirates flights do not compete with the US3's core international markets to Europe or Asia, they compete to India. IF EK adds something to Flights from Athens and Milan to New York the US3 should stop crying because they hardly fly those markets, Athens has not been flown daily year around since TWA left Athens. Emirates doesn't disrupt US3 flights to London, Paris, Tokyo , Sydney or Hong Kong.. Emirates adds way more to the USA then it takes, if the US3 looses a few passengers to India they should fly there more nonstop.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:47 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
I don’t disagree with this course of action by EK. Playing the diplomatic and calm approach has just seen the US3 try and gain more of the headlines.

What has to be made clear is that for every action there is a reaction, and UAE have a few very strong cards in their deck to play if the US3 continue to play this game. It will effect far more than just the airlines, but if a decision to walk away from the 77X orders was taken it could be a big dent to jobs in the US.

The tiring rhetoric from the US3 needs to stop and they should just focus on their own businesses. They really only have themselves to blame in many cases for their lack of a competitive position that has lead to this endless whinging and PR spin.


:checkmark: :checkmark:

Well said...totally agree!
 
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yowza
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:13 pm

This type of action reminds me of some of the gesticulating and theatrics we saw from Dubai Inc during the saga that was their entry into Canada. Let's hope this doesn't get ugly.

For those of you that think that the US has more to lose than Dubai/UAE I would urge caution. It is VERY well documented that Dubai is a staging ground for circumventing sanctions with Iran - "re-export," banking and otherwise. On that premise alone if the US wanted to force the issue the UAE could be brought to its knees. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

YOWza
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:14 pm

Oh no, you mean if we limit ME3 growth, our own airlines and workers would have to do more business, and fly those 777X instead? Gee willickers!

That said, EK has every right to state their position and make their decisions. Questions of politics really belong to the people of each country. EK's statement is irrelevant to that.
Last edited by Flighty on Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Blerg
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:21 pm

Poor US airlines. If only they could offer their horrible domestic product on international flights so as to maximize their profits even more. Shame on Emirates, Turkish Airlines, Qatar... for having good looking crew, decent meals, good IFE and for caring about their customers.

The US airlines are uncompetitive. That said, it seems Delta understood this and they are actually changing.
 
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usxguy
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:43 pm

StudiodeKadent wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:

The Emirates boss also warned that should the Open Skies pact with the US be scrapped or renegotiated, the carrier may be forced to reconsider its orders with Boeing (BOE, Chicago O'Hare) for thirty-five B777-8s and 115 B777-9s.


That's a pretty substantial threat to say the least.

What would EK do to replace the 777 and 777X? The A350s are imperfect substitutes... Although on the other hand Emirates is apparently feeling the brunt of excess capacity.


I think you are missing the point.

With no more OPEN SKIES, there's no NEED for all those airplanes.
xx
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:52 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Emirates warns the US to not open Pandora's box by even trying to renegotiate the Open Skies agreement:

Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:

UAEflyer wrote:
There is one step that EK yet not excersing , to split EK from the other two (EY & QR).


So, that is the elegance of the strategy the US3 have employed with the QR settlement. The case against EK was always much weaker than against EY, and much much weaker than the case against QR, but EK was always the much greater business threat as EK will likely be the largest airline in the world soon by almost all measures.

By lumping EK in with QR, it was guilt by association. Now, QR has accepted a settlement that means nothing because EK already releases audited financials and QR had no impact from losing 5th Freedom flights. Nevertheless, the US3 have now removed Qatar from the conversation. So, all the focus is on an airline that was never really guilty of anything in the first place AND is the bigger enemy not because of any questionable activity, but merely because of their size, scope, and success. It's masterful and sad at the same time.
 
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:06 pm

enilria wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Emirates warns the US to not open Pandora's box by even trying to renegotiate the Open Skies agreement:

Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:

UAEflyer wrote:
There is one step that EK yet not excersing , to split EK from the other two (EY & QR).


So, that is the elegance of the strategy the US3 have employed with the QR settlement. The case against EK was always much weaker than against EY, and much much weaker than the case against QR, but EK was always the much greater business threat as EK will likely be the largest airline in the world soon by almost all measures.

By lumping EK in with QR, it was guilt by association. Now, QR has accepted a settlement that means nothing because EK already releases audited financials and QR had no impact from losing 5th Freedom flights. Nevertheless, the US3 have now removed Qatar from the conversation. So, all the focus is on an airline that was never really guilty of anything in the first place AND is the bigger enemy not because of any questionable activity, but merely because of their size, scope, and success. It's masterful and sad at the same time.
Of course EK and EY are tied together because they are from the same country covered by the same bilateral.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:08 pm

usxguy wrote:
StudiodeKadent wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

Last but not least, Tim Clark added it may reconsider its 777X order if the Open Skies agreement gets altered:



That's a pretty substantial threat to say the least.

What would EK do to replace the 777 and 777X? The A350s are imperfect substitutes... Although on the other hand Emirates is apparently feeling the brunt of excess capacity.


I think you are missing the point.

With no more OPEN SKIES, there's no NEED for all those airplanes.


The USA is not the big market for Emirates, yes they want to grow it, but as it is it is only secondary.
 
marcelh
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:11 pm

pabloeing wrote:
only words........EK needs the B777X

Maybe, but EK has a large fleet of fairly new 77W. They aren't nowhere near last flight to the bone yard
 
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par13del
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:24 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
If you are running overall a significant trade surplus, you do not have the best situation to point to one area were you are not at a surplus.

Hmmmm.....during the tanker debates a number of Europeans including the president of France at the time seemed to think that the trade imbalance Europe ran with the USA on military products was sufficient to offset the overall trade imbalance that Europe had with the USA.
 
subramak1
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:51 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
I don’t disagree with this course of action by EK. Playing the diplomatic and calm approach has just seen the US3 try and gain more of the headlines.

What has to be made clear is that for every action there is a reaction, and UAE have a few very strong cards in their deck to play if the US3 continue to play this game. It will effect far more than just the airlines, but if a decision to walk away from the 77X orders was taken it could be a big dent to jobs in the US.

The tiring rhetoric from the US3 needs to stop and they should just focus on their own businesses. They really only have themselves to blame in many cases for their lack of a competitive position that has lead to this endless whinging and PR spin.


Given EK's main market from US is Middle east, Eastern Africa and Indian subcontinent - I wonder if US3 have appetite to fly to these destinations. If EK was shut out, I can see US3 adding couple of flights to DEL, may be 1 to BOM. But MAA, BLR, HYD, KHI, LHE will lose out big time. It is EK's network effects that makes it profitable. On a typical day EK has 6 flights to KHI, 5 to BOM,4 to DEL, 3 each to HYD, BLR, MAA and 2 to KHI

Even if you assume the India US traffic will be picked up by European JV partners, they dont have rights to fly to COK, , TRV etc all of which are destinations flown by EK

Subu
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:06 pm

Finally a real threat from EK. although I'm not sure if Trump's administration deals with threats lightly. Hopefully common sense prevails and the B77X order remains, otherwise that would be detrimental to Boeing.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:13 pm

UAEflyer wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
only words........EK needs the B777X

Boeing needs EK more, especially the 777X


I agree I think Emirates has a pretty good card here. It's maybe their only card, but a really good one. Boeing really needs that order, and Emirates has a ton of capacity they can delay retirements and push Airbus. Emirates has power here.
 
cschleic
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:18 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Airbus would pull out all the stops if it got to the point where Emirates would cancel the 777X. It would also give leverage for an A380neo.

I imagine Emirates would keep the 787-10 order then order majority A35K and some A359ULR like mentioned above.

Probably won't come to that though.


Airbus already has the 380 program too dependent on one customer and going all out to get EK to move from the 777 to ??? might just make them even more dependent on that one customer. Would they really want to do that?
 
DCAfan
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:26 pm

My impression is that TC is toying with Trump. Not sure this is a good idea as Trump is unpredictable. I presume Emirates ordered the next generation 777 because it is more optimal for its network than the A350

I sense that TC is goading Trump by saying for all intents and purposes that his button is bigger than Trump's. For Emirates sake, it better be.
 
airzona11
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:34 pm

A lot of this is posturing. Boeing is not DL/AA/UA. The US3 have very diversified fleets too. EK is going to do what is best of EK. Probably not canceling a plane they are building their future around.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
UAEflyer wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
only words........EK needs the B777X

Boeing needs EK more, especially the 777X


I agree I think Emirates has a pretty good card here. It's maybe their only card, but a really good one. Boeing really needs that order, and Emirates has a ton of capacity they can delay retirements and push Airbus. Emirates has power here.


EK needs the 777 too. For all the talk of the Emiratesization of the 777 on these boards, how quickly that seems to fly out the door when there is a chance they cancel it.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: EK warns the US against Open Skies renegotiation, threatens 777X order

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:52 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
UAEflyer wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
only words........EK needs the B777X

Boeing needs EK more, especially the 777X


I agree I think Emirates has a pretty good card here. It's maybe their only card, but a really good one. Boeing really needs that order, and Emirates has a ton of capacity they can delay retirements and push Airbus. Emirates has power here.

agree. :checkmark:
Trump also needs the jobs.
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