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tofur
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:12 pm

Starting with next winter schedule the following flights will be transferred from Air Canada Rouge to Air Canada mainline. Boeing 7M8 aircraft will be used with an increase in frequency.
YVR-HNL 2 X Daily
YVR-OGG 2 X Daily
YVR-KOA 4 X Weekly
YVR-CUN 4 X Weekly
YVR-ZIH 3 X Weekly
YYC-OGG 4 X Weekly
YYC-CUN 3 X Weekly

Vancouver to Osaka will return to mainline May 2019 with Boeing 787 service, frequency to be firmed at later date.

Confirmed again that Boeing 767 mainline service will cease by the end of 2019.

The current 8 Airbus 330-300, and the 4 to be acquired will be refurbished. New seats, new fabrics, new IFE and WIFI keeping in line with 777/787 interiors. The refurbishment is expected to be completed by Spring 2020.
 
NZ321
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:29 pm

What will the Y class seating pitch be in the refurbished A333 I wonder?
Plane mad!
 
EChid
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:30 pm

I was always aghast that the YVR>KIX flight was Rouge. I took the long way back through HKG last year just to avoid that flight.

We knew AC likes their A333s, but interesting to see them investing so heavily in them when they have lots of 787s and so many carriers are replacing A330s with 787s. I guess they're pretty ideal for TATL. Looking forward to the new interiors, I wish they would do the same for their A321.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:33 pm

What about YVR-NGO? Is it staying Rouge?
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3047
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:36 pm

EChid wrote:
I was always aghast that the YVR>KIX flight was Rouge. I took the long way back through HKG last year just to avoid that flight.

We knew AC likes their A333s, but interesting to see them investing so heavily in them when they have lots of 787s and so many carriers are replacing A330s with 787s. I guess they're pretty ideal for TATL. Looking forward to the new interiors, I wish they would do the same for their A321.


From the eat coast to Europe, they are just as efficient, if not more than the dreamliner, on a cost per seat mile basis.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Great to hear about the A330 interiors, they are very tired looking as is the IFE. Will the existing 8 be refurbished as well as they recently had a minor update with the addition of Y+? So glad these super-comfortable planes will be a TATL option for years to coming, I'll go out of my way to book one wherever possible.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:27 pm

Do we have a source to that announcement ?

ACCS300 wrote:
Will the existing 8 be refurbished as well as they recently had a minor update with the addition of Y+?


The current 8 Airbus 330-300, and the 4 to be acquired will be refurbished.
 
tofur
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:37 pm

Yes all 12 Airbus 330-300 will be refurbished with new interiors and amenities. The information comes from Ben Smith.
 
Thomaas
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:21 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
What about YVR-NGO? Is it staying Rouge?


Doubtful it’ll be back in 2019. It is the worst performing route at rouge.
 
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SuperTwin
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:07 pm

Thomaas wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
What about YVR-NGO? Is it staying Rouge?


Doubtful it’ll be back in 2019. It is the worst performing route at rouge.


Odd that you think AC would give up on it as it is operating again this year albeit with 1 less frequency per week.

Once the RV767 base is closed. This could remain and be tied in with an a/c rotating YYZ-LAS-YVR-NGO and back or some other Mainland US dest.
SuperTwin
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:30 am

EChid wrote:
I was always aghast that the YVR>KIX flight was Rouge. I took the long way back through HKG last year just to avoid that flight.

We knew AC likes their A333s, but interesting to see them investing so heavily in them when they have lots of 787s and so many carriers are replacing A330s with 787s. I guess they're pretty ideal for TATL. Looking forward to the new interiors, I wish they would do the same for their A321.


They don't have enough 787s to replace the A330s. As it has turned out, the 787s will replace all of the 768s and that is about it. Any A330 replacement will have to come with a subsequent order of something.

What I am interested to see is just how many A330s they add. The original rumour was for 7 additional frames. I suspect there will be gradual additions, but seeing as they are leased, it stands to reason that they will be able to drip feed additional frames as required. I'd like to see a few more, I love what they have done network wise over the past 5 years, but there are a few holes long haul wise that could be filled; DUS, GIG, OSL, SIN, JNB. (Not necessarily on the A333, but in general).
 
CFWAD
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:48 am

YVR-Hawaii is a nice gain in IFE and frequency but a loss when it comes to the seatmap (RV 763 vs AC 73M).

With the exception of any seasonal gauge change, there will no longer be WB service between YVR-Hawaii, something not seen since CP introduced 741 service in the early 70s.
Will RV still be operating YYZ-HNL?
CaVOK
A300.310.319.320.321.332.333.343.B722.732.733.734.735.736.73G.738.739.742.74M.752.762.763.772.773.779.CR2.CR7.DC9.DC10.DH1.DH3.DH4.E135.E175. E195.MD83
 
ba319-131
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:49 am

Any word on were these additional 4 frames are coming from? - assume CX/SQ?
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:44 am

ba319-131 wrote:
Any word on were these additional 4 frames are coming from? - assume CX/SQ?


In Air Canada's 2017 results thread it was said they don't come from SQ. I suggested they might be from CX, at least if AC want to stick with RR-powered A333s.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1386745
 
flydude380
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:34 pm

It seems to me that Rouge is losing a lot of routes and AC don’t need them. Would be good to see AC mainline everywhere!
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3047
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:31 pm

flydude380 wrote:
It seems to me that Rouge is losing a lot of routes and AC don’t need them. Would be good to see AC mainline everywhere!


That's only your perception, and not a really accurate one, considering the rouge fleet will grow to 53 frames by the end of this year. That's 4 more than the end of last year.

AC is simply shifting Rouge narrowbody capacity onto domestic routes. (YUL-YQB, YYZ-YQB., YUL-YYJ, YYZ-YKA, YYZ-YCD), and shifting the 767s to where they are needed most. West coast-Hawaii or YYC-CUN wasn't it. The Max 8 is more than capable of operating these routes, at lower costs and higher frequency (if needed).

All of these moves make sense, when you consider.......

The added range of the Max 8 over the A319/A320ceo, opening up the possibility of a route like YYC-OGG.
the upcoming Canadian ULCC's in the domestic market
the 767 cap on Rouge, and
the conditions needed to be able to expand Rouge narrowbody beyond 50 frames.

AC is simply adjusting capacity to demand, all the while playing their cards the right way, in order to continue expanding.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
edmaircraft
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:40 am

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:02 pm

So glad to finally be able to take mainline to KOA instead of Rouge...
Let me up!
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:38 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
It seems to me that Rouge is losing a lot of routes and AC don’t need them. Would be good to see AC mainline everywhere!


That's only your perception, and not a really accurate one, considering the rouge fleet will grow to 53 frames by the end of this year. That's 4 more than the end of last year.

AC is simply shifting Rouge narrowbody capacity onto domestic routes. (YUL-YQB, YYZ-YQB., YUL-YYJ, YYZ-YKA, YYZ-YCD), and shifting the 767s to where they are needed most. West coast-Hawaii or YYC-CUN wasn't it. The Max 8 is more than capable of operating these routes, at lower costs and higher frequency (if needed).

All of these moves make sense, when you consider.......

The added range of the Max 8 over the A319/A320ceo, opening up the possibility of a route like YYC-OGG.
the upcoming Canadian ULCC's in the domestic market
the 767 cap on Rouge, and
the conditions needed to be able to expand Rouge narrowbody beyond 50 frames.

AC is simply adjusting capacity to demand, all the while playing their cards the right way, in order to continue expanding.


Beyond even that it’s proving Rouge is working incredibly well.

Rouge is opening routes. Redefining them and allowing demand to reach a level where yield and premium traffic demands are high enough to warrant mainline service. It’s perfect. Unrouging a route is great news for pretty much everyone I’d say and I don’t even mean this as a stab at the product.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
leyland1989
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:43 pm

Everyone was predicting the A330s were on their way out on A.net in the past 10 years

I guess they are not going anywhere anytime soon :)
Will YOW-LHR go with 787-8 or A330 after the 767 are gone?

Unless the new A330 will be YYZ based, I suppose it will be unlikely to see A330 in YOW?
Airbus:319,320,321,332,333,343,345,346,359,388
Boeing: 717,734,738,739,753,74R,742,743,744,74E,748,763,772,773,77E,77L,77W,788,789
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Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:50 am

leyland1989 wrote:
Everyone was predicting the A330s were on their way out on A.net in the past 10 years

I guess they are not going anywhere anytime soon :)
Will YOW-LHR go with 787-8 or A330 after the 767 are gone?

Unless the new A330 will be YYZ based, I suppose it will be unlikely to see A330 in YOW?


Yeah it'll be interesting to see whether YOW-LHR and YOW-FRA go 333 or 788 after the 763s. I can't imagine LHR would ever go 7M8 as there's too much J demand and FRA I think is out of MAX 8 range...kinda wish it was in range as that would likely mean the return of year-round YOW-FRA service.

The 788 is evidently closer in capacity to the mainline 763s since the reconfig of the 333 fleet, but the 333 is apparently more efficient for that length of mission profile. If I had to guess, both routes will go 788 as YUL-FRA is listed as a 788 for this summer. The other possibility for LHR is 333 summer, 788 winter.

333s have been used on occasion at YOW. They were used 3 summers ago to FRA for a few weeks at the start of the season in May/June while AC were evidently short on 763s during the mass transfer of those birds to rouge, and 5 or 6 years ago the 333 was assigned to YOW-LHR for the entire summer season.

Even though YHZ-LHR is still showing 763 for this summer, it seems to be heading towards getting MAXed based on the upcoming summer sked's 7M8/763 YHZ service not making any sense at this point, and the new year-round LGW competition on the WS MAX 8.

It wouldn't be hard to make YOW-LHR on the 333 sustainable year-round if AC were simply to feed a bit more traffic through YOW like say the restoring of a 3rd daily from YWG and bringing the 2nd daily YEG up to year-round, etc. and re-timing a couple other flights to connect to/from AC888/9 or restoring the likes of YYG back up to year-round service.
 
leyland1989
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:14 am

Dominion301 wrote:
YOW-LHR on the 333 sustainable year-round if AC were simply to feed a bit more traffic through YOW


YYZ-LHR via YOW is often cheaper than YOW-LHR :lol:
I guess they had always been trying to feed YYZ traffic through YOW, struggling to fill the rear cabin of the 767.

Being based in YOW, I have flown this route on a few occasion, and the mainline 767 is arguably the most comfortable jet in AC's feet if you fly economy.
As much as I don't want to see it being replaced by 787, the -8 are very close in capacity and it can be handled by the YYZ based crew much like the current YOW 767 routes.

If I remember correctly, all current A330 are YUL base, unless this has been/can be changed, there aren't many flights/seats to ferry to crew from YUL to YOW.
I suppose if the A330 fleet is expanding, it wouldn't be too difficult to put a few at YYZ. :?

Without being too far topics, isn't there a talk about the 787-8 will eventually end up at Rouge at some point?
Airbus:319,320,321,332,333,343,345,346,359,388
Boeing: 717,734,738,739,753,74R,742,743,744,74E,748,763,772,773,77E,77L,77W,788,789
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jmpflyer
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:30 am

Any confirmed dates when the change for service to Hawaii will happen?
"Turbulence is a pilot's cheap massage"
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2894
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Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:35 pm

leyland1989 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
YOW-LHR on the 333 sustainable year-round if AC were simply to feed a bit more traffic through YOW


YYZ-LHR via YOW is often cheaper than YOW-LHR :lol:
I guess they had always been trying to feed YYZ traffic through YOW, struggling to fill the rear cabin of the 767.

Being based in YOW, I have flown this route on a few occasion, and the mainline 767 is arguably the most comfortable jet in AC's feet if you fly economy.
As much as I don't want to see it being replaced by 787, the -8 are very close in capacity and it can be handled by the YYZ based crew much like the current YOW 767 routes.

If I remember correctly, all current A330 are YUL base, unless this has been/can be changed, there aren't many flights/seats to ferry to crew from YUL to YOW.
I suppose if the A330 fleet is expanding, it wouldn't be too difficult to put a few at YYZ. :?

Without being too far topics, isn't there a talk about the 787-8 will eventually end up at Rouge at some point?


The connecting flight being cheaper happens a lot all over the place. It's often cheaper to fly YOW-YYZ-YVR on AC than YOW-YVR nonstop. It all depends on a particular flight's loads on a particular day of the week.

As for using YUL-based crews instead of YYZ for transatlantic, it's a doable with a W (or V?) pattern (i.e. YUL-LHR-YOW-LHR-YUL).

Having said that, I think remaining with YYZ crews is more likely in order to maintain a widebody on a Rapidair run during the afternoon peak in both directions, which also allows for added/bigger cargo to be moved than during the rest of the day.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:21 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
leyland1989 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
YOW-LHR on the 333 sustainable year-round if AC were simply to feed a bit more traffic through YOW


YYZ-LHR via YOW is often cheaper than YOW-LHR :lol:
I guess they had always been trying to feed YYZ traffic through YOW, struggling to fill the rear cabin of the 767.

Being based in YOW, I have flown this route on a few occasion, and the mainline 767 is arguably the most comfortable jet in AC's feet if you fly economy.
As much as I don't want to see it being replaced by 787, the -8 are very close in capacity and it can be handled by the YYZ based crew much like the current YOW 767 routes.

If I remember correctly, all current A330 are YUL base, unless this has been/can be changed, there aren't many flights/seats to ferry to crew from YUL to YOW.
I suppose if the A330 fleet is expanding, it wouldn't be too difficult to put a few at YYZ. :?

Without being too far topics, isn't there a talk about the 787-8 will eventually end up at Rouge at some point?


They’ve ground dead headed YUL crews in the past. Van from YUL-YOW

The connecting flight being cheaper happens a lot all over the place. It's often cheaper to fly YOW-YYZ-YVR on AC than YOW-YVR nonstop. It all depends on a particular flight's loads on a particular day of the week.

As for using YUL-based crews instead of YYZ for transatlantic, it's a doable with a W (or V?) pattern (i.e. YUL-LHR-YOW-LHR-YUL).

Having said that, I think remaining with YYZ crews is more likely in order to maintain a widebody on a Rapidair run during the afternoon peak in both directions, which also allows for added/bigger cargo to be moved than during the rest of the day.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
wave46
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:02 am

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:43 pm

leyland1989 wrote:
Everyone was predicting the A330s were on their way out on A.net in the past 10 years

I guess they are not going anywhere anytime soon :)
Will YOW-LHR go with 787-8 or A330 after the 767 are gone?

Unless the new A330 will be YYZ based, I suppose it will be unlikely to see A330 in YOW?


AC doesn't have a habit of dumping aircraft they're happy with, so I could see why they kept the A333. Only 8 A333 is a small fleet though - I could see why leasing a few more might make sense from a fleet economy scale, and since they've the pilots certified to fly them, why not?

Eventually, I could see the A333s headed to Rouge to start replacing the 767s. They're more efficient on the routes that Rouge flies (sun and leisure European destinations) than the 787, which excels at longer missions.

I doubt you'll see a 788 at Rouge for the next 15-20 years as there's no sense using a plane optimized for long-haul and is still being paid for on a lower yielding, shorter-haul route (like YYZ-MCO, for instance).
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:56 am

wave46 wrote:
leyland1989 wrote:
Everyone was predicting the A330s were on their way out on A.net in the past 10 years

I guess they are not going anywhere anytime soon :)
Will YOW-LHR go with 787-8 or A330 after the 767 are gone?

Unless the new A330 will be YYZ based, I suppose it will be unlikely to see A330 in YOW?


AC doesn't have a habit of dumping aircraft they're happy with, so I could see why they kept the A333. Only 8 A333 is a small fleet though - I could see why leasing a few more might make sense from a fleet economy scale, and since they've the pilots certified to fly them, why not?

Eventually, I could see the A333s headed to Rouge to start replacing the 767s. They're more efficient on the routes that Rouge flies (sun and leisure European destinations) than the 787, which excels at longer missions.

I doubt you'll see a 788 at Rouge for the next 15-20 years as there's no sense using a plane optimized for long-haul and is still being paid for on a lower yielding, shorter-haul route (like YYZ-MCO, for instance).


They begin adding more A333's on lease beginning next year. They are slated to take 4.
 
obelau24
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am

Re: Air Canada Mainline Back To Hawaii, Mexico, Osaka

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:58 am

I thought YVR-HNL has always been twice daily in the winter with 763s - won’t this be a reduction in seats? More importantly, what’s going to happen in the summer schedule - only a daily 73M? That’s a major seat reduction. I suppose revenue will go up though. On the other hand, WS should be happy as now there really won’t be any difference between the two carriers, at least in Y.

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