AirbusMDCFAN
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Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:04 pm

Link/Source: https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/am ... tamps.html



"Its CEO, Doug Parker, is fond of profit. He believes that taking things away from passengers can bring dividends."
"He also, some are saying, appears to believe that paying some of his employees a pittance is excellent business."

"The Dallas Morning News this week presented a painful exposé that recounted the lifestyles of workers at Irving, Texas-based Envoy Air."
"You might know this American Airlines-owned company -- it's American's biggest subsidiary -- by its brand name: American Eagle."

"They start on as little as $9.48 an hour. They get a $1 raise after a year. "
"For the next 10 years, however, there are no guarantees."
"They don't have a collective bargaining agreement."

Has Envoy Air management consider the cost of living in the Dallas/Fort Worth area from homes to schooling if the employee(s) have kids etc......
It is not easy here in S. Fla. either.
 
SPREE34
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:14 pm

Nobody wants to be first to raise fares to cover decent compensation packages.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:37 pm

On a conceptual basis: shame that they don't make a living wage.

On a business basis: they knew that going in, and no one held a gun to their head to take that job.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
oosnowrat
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:48 pm

How does that compare to DGS, United Ground Express and McGee?
 
iad51fl
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:53 pm

If they do not like the pay, move on. If Envoy has enough people walking out and can not run operations... then the pay will rise. As long as people take those jobs... at that pay...then it will never be fixed.

I do not feel bad for them. When they accepted the job they knew (or should have known) the payscale and any scheduled raises.
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downdata
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:10 pm

And they wonder why there is a shortage of pilots at the regional level.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:18 pm

iad51fl wrote:
If they do not like the pay, move on. If Envoy has enough people walking out and can not run operations... then the pay will rise. As long as people take those jobs... at that pay...then it will never be fixed.

I do not feel bad for them. When they accepted the job they knew (or should have known) the payscale and any scheduled raises.


In reality regional carriers DO struggle for operational integrity and has been that way for decades. The complaints filed against legacy carriers can often find their roots in regional carrier SNAFUS.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:34 pm

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
"For the next 10 years, however, there are no guarantees."


LOL. I guess they should go find an employer that will give them a 10 year guarantee.

iad51fl wrote:
If they do not like the pay, move on. If Envoy has enough people walking out and can not run operations...


This is 100% correct. These employees are not victims. Nobody is forcing them to work for $10 an hour or less. They are free to go make as much or as little money as they can, anywhere they want.
 
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janders
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:39 pm

Not sure I see the issue here.

Pay is all relative and based on market forces.

Be someone work for an airline, hotel, restaurant or what not, $9.48 could be a very reasonable starting rate especially for lower skill positions which many airline ground jobs are.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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reidar76
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:59 pm

janders wrote:
Not sure I see the issue here.

Pay is all relative and based on market forces.

Be someone work for an airline, hotel, restaurant or what not, $9.48 could be a very reasonable starting rate especially for lower skill positions which many airline ground jobs are.


The problem is that these people are being taken advantage of, and they don't currently have any other option than continuing doing this slave labour.

In some countries what American Eagle is doing to these poor people would be a criminal offence. #slavelabour
 
jayunited
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:04 pm

oosnowrat wrote:
How does that compare to DGS, United Ground Express and McGee?


Most ground service employees (excluding mechanics) have a starting pay anywhere between $9 - $11 dollars an hour. It doesn't matter whether you work for a mainline carrier or an express carrier starting pay is generally the same. Going in people know and understand what they are signing up for the difference is at most express or "DGS" style companies top pay is probably around $17 dollars an hour, but there is no set pay scale for when an employee will reach top pay. Whereas at most mainline carriers top pay is between $24 - $27 dollars an hour with a set time frame for when an employee will reach top scale. Most people who for for express carriers doing ground service work generally don't actually stay very long because the work is difficult the hours suck and it is up to your manager if you qualify for a raise. The only reason why mainline carriers have a slightly better retention rate is because you know you're getting a raise every year and within 10 - 12 years you will be at the top of the pay scale.
 
TheOldDude
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:22 pm

reidar76 wrote:
janders wrote:
Not sure I see the issue here.

Pay is all relative and based on market forces.

Be someone work for an airline, hotel, restaurant or what not, $9.48 could be a very reasonable starting rate especially for lower skill positions which many airline ground jobs are.


The problem is that these people are being taken advantage of, and they don't currently have any other option than continuing doing this slave labour.

In some countries what American Eagle is doing to these poor people would be a criminal offence. #slavelabour


Perhaps they are allowing themselves to be used. They were free to refuse the job when it was offered, and are free to leave it for a higher paying job. They are also free to work anywhere they want. If they can't find a higher paying job given their skills, they are free to take advantage of a myriad of educational opportunities to make themselves more valuable.

That's how people get ahead. Having a low wage job with an external force setting the minimum pay at a level just enough to make people comfortable is a recipe for a permanent underclass. A permanent underclass is a worse problem than low paying jobs.
 
bob75013
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:26 pm

[quote="reidar76"][quote="janders"]N

The problem is that these people are being taken advantage of, and they don't currently have any other option than continuing doing this slave labour.

quote]

B.S. Nobody is forcing them to stay at Envoy. There are plenty of higher paying jobs out there. If they don't like the wages, then they should leave Envoy and find them.
 
toltommy
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:43 pm

reidar76 wrote:
In some countries what American Eagle is doing to these poor people would be a criminal offence. #slavelabour


Seriously? In what countries would pay above the legal minimum wage be a criminal offense? Name the country and cite your source please. I doubt very highly that you can do so.
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Flighty
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:45 pm

I think young people should be prevented from starting their careers at low wages, like I did, since I used the experience to earn good wages later on. We must terminate these opportunities. Older people should be placed on benefits for life, never allowed to restart their careers and work at low wage jobs. This is why I never do business with low wage people! Let them all just die! - high minimum wage advocates
 
MAH4546
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:46 pm

I can’t stand Parker but there is nothing wrong being done here. Nobody is forced to work for $9.48/hr. If an employee is unhappy they can quit.
a.
 
sunking737
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:47 pm

Any smart person would use Eagle as a stepping stone to American or any other major airline. I took a job with Signature Flight Support, to get to know people at Sun Country in MSP. I worked for SY for many years.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
IPFreely
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:49 pm

reidar76 wrote:
In some countries what American Eagle is doing to these poor people would be a criminal offence. #slavelabour


Interesting. As toltommy asked, please let us know what countries have laws against paying employees significantly more than minimum wage?
 
COSPN
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:52 pm

They do get flight bennies so can fly home to the Dominican Republic or Haiti and spend their money.. Many own their own home free and clear .. few Americans I know have their homes paid off
 
iluvairplanes99
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:08 pm

Right, because it's just that simple to just find a job with a living wage these days... :roll: Definitely not an issue solely of American Eagle though.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:20 pm

As others have mentioned no one is forced to work for Envoy or the thousands of other employers if $9.48 is not to their liking.

US labor markets are open and all power to anyone that can earn higher pay. But facts are still that positions with either low skill needs or low barriers of entry will obviously pay less.

Job market is essentially a pyramid with lots of lower skill jobs in the bottom with increasing need for ability as you go up. This in broad sense is reflected in the pay society assigns.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:21 pm

How is this news? Regionals have been a “b scale” for decades with the full cooperation of management and mainline unions, who obviously benefit from the cheaper labor costs.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ridgid727
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 pm

Most regionals are in that same area of pay, of course unless they have union rep. OO I think is below Envoy on the pay scale
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:37 pm

reidar76 wrote:
janders wrote:
Not sure I see the issue here.

Pay is all relative and based on market forces.

Be someone work for an airline, hotel, restaurant or what not, $9.48 could be a very reasonable starting rate especially for lower skill positions which many airline ground jobs are.


The problem is that these people are being taken advantage of, and they don't currently have any other option than continuing doing this slave labour.

In some countries what American Eagle is doing to these poor people would be a criminal offence. #slavelabour

I hate when people compare this to slave labor. You just cheapen the term when it comes to true slavery to fit your agenda
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
oosnowrat
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:39 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
Most regionals are in that same area of pay, of course unless they have union rep. OO I think is below Envoy on the pay scale

OO starts at $8.50-14.00, depending on location. Most start at $10-11.
 
Wacker1000
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:42 pm

The bigger issue is inc.com - every aviation related article they run is biased against the airlines and its all garbage.
 
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QuarkFly
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:16 am

What exactly are these $10 per hours jobs? Baggage? Pilots? Airport check-in help? Emptying trash cans? Everybody?

Yes, there is a market for labor...But there is a case for the aviation industry doing better than this. If you are paying the same as fast-food work -- you may get fast -food worker turnover and fast-food quality and a fast-food work force mentality. Probably does not serve the aviation sector very well.
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DeltaXNA
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:16 am

oosnowrat wrote:
How does that compare to DGS, United Ground Express and McGee?


Back when I worked for DGS in 2014, the most I could make on the ramp was $8.60 an hour, and the starting wage was $7.75.
 
lat41
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:17 am

I love all of this "if you don't like it quit stuff" One would hope though with a little better compensation comes a bit more committment, pride and dedication. That's the way I learned it. I also learned....Pay peanuts, get monkeys as the old saying goes.
 
nutsaboutplanes
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:33 am

There has to be an “entry level”. I was 19 and working for America West on the ramp in Seattle making 6.10 and that was in 2003. I used it as a stepping stone to gain experience and I moved between companies to increase my pay, better my situation and build my skills to make myself more marketable. I think that is how this is supposed to work.
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AAORY
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:42 am

AA at DFW has hired multiple hundreds of people from Eagle in the last couple of years, both agents and on the ramp. If these folks are good they could get hired easily at the mainline and get an immediate raise with a much better future. If they haven't done that, then they're being paid exactly what they're worth.
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DfwRevolution
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:42 am

neomax wrote:
Glad to see I am not the only one that realizes you can't just "switch jobs" like shoes. Anyone who isn't making less than $10/hr absolutely has no right to say that they should've gotten a different job.


Virtually everyone has worked for $10/hour (or it's inflation adjusted equivalent) at some point in their life. We've all worked entry-level jobs at grocery stores, fast food joints, swimming pools, and the like.

neomax wrote:
Do you currently raise a family on less than $10/hr?


Your personal life doesn't change the value of the work you perform.

If you have family expenses, then the responsibility is on you to produce at a level that will pay them.
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neomax
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:04 am

jayunited wrote:
I was making $7.25 an hour, although I was single at the time $7.25 an hour was not enough to support myself but it was a starting point.


Fair enough, I can buy that that is a starting point. I was in the same spot when I first started in this industry many years ago. But some of these employees have been working at the company for decades. If you're only making marginally more than someone who was hired yesterday and you're putting your best foot forward, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the company is doing nothing to help you move forward. Just as an employee has a responsibility to do their best work for the company, the company has a responsibility to support them and help them move forward. Anyone that doesn't believe this is either kidding themselves or is part of the problem. It's pretty clear that you worked hard to move up as have many others and that is fantastic. But do you think these employees aren't working just as hard as you? Not everybody gets the same opportunities, and denying others the chance to move up on the basis of factors that may well be out of their control is pretty tone deaf. Corporate greed is not some made up fictional problem; it is an actual and very real issue that directly affects the well being of many hardworking families who are struggling to make ends meet because their employer is doing everything possible to keep extra cents out of the hands of the front line workers that need it most.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:05 am

If one is making only $10/hr, perhaps they shouldn't be raising a family at all.

And likewise, if one can only afford to pay people $10/hr, perhaps they shouldn't be in business.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:07 am

The problem is that these people are being taken advantage of, and they don't currently have any other option than continuing doing this slave labour.


I must absolutely disagree! While I wish they were earning more, pay is based upon market forces. As long as the employer is at or above whatever the prevailing minimum wage is, they're operating legally. And, what's this slave labor stuff? The last time I checked, slaves don't get paid. The American Eagle folks most certainly do! Now, are they being taken advantage of? Perhaps. In that case, there are plenty of other jobs out there. No one forced them to work for America Eagle. No one put a gun to their heads. Certainly, I would hope that American Eagle would raise their pay but if not, these employees can exercise their free market prerogatives and seem employment elsewhere. Regional pilots seem to be doing just that, recently. There is no reason that ground personnel cannot do the same.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:43 am

Never thought I'd see an AA CEO that made Crandall likeable, but here sits the drunk megalomaniac atop an airline he doesn't deserve to run.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:43 am

LOL!!! I spent 15 years in the industry, and realized I was never going to have job security and good pay. I have worked for over 8 airlines, laid off by 5. I kept dusting myself off over and over again, and going back in for another disappointment. Finally, I decided I needed to get serious about life. Yes, I miss the flight benefits big time. But, there was no way I was going to support a family working in this industry.

Sadly, ground workers are just a number and a cost that airlines are now passing off to the cheapest vendor. If they could find a way to have kiosks, and automated luggage loading, they would do it in a heartbeat. Even pilots face this scary technology future.

If I had the chance to go back in time and start over? I would never have applied to the airlines to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. I had the worst luck when it came to working for a stable airline too. Here today, gone tomorrow.
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Cush
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:46 am

As a former employee of American Eagle, I can vouch that they make less than $10... Just a few years ago we all started at $8.25 if memory serves me right...

That $8.25 required you to do the following:
- On-load / off-load the bags from a CRJ or EMB-145 by yourself.
- Marshall aircraft in/out
- Drive baggage carts from aircraft to the bag room across the airport
- Refill the diesel in all equipment
- Empty lavatories
- Clean all aircraft that were RON's (overnight)
- and more....

I was even certified to break ride the EMB-145 and CRJ family in the event we needed to move it... I always wondered why an airline would trust an $8/hr employee with driving a 30 million dollar plane.... But, i guess that's the airline industry for you!
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
airtran737
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:07 am

I see the struggle all of the time. Go to ORD and DFW. Look at the ramp. Orange vests everywhere, but it's not just an Envoy problem. I see the same in CLT with Piedmont ground handling. I started out on the ramp making $7.25 an hour, but I worked my ass off, moved up, put myself through flight school. worked full time, instructed, got hired with Eagle as a f/o and now am about to be a captain. People can make the best of a situation and pull themselves up.

However, AAG is so uptight and has poisoned the relationships with their workgroups. The attitude of America Wast & US Airways being pushed on the AA group has not gone well. There is a major crisis coming at the regional level for the wholly owned carriers. Envoy is able to hire and train, but Piedmont is taking six months to train new hire pilots. Soon, all three carriers will have even more trouble finding qualified applicants due to airlines such as Endeavor and Republic substantially raising wages and sucking the best pilots up.
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777PHX
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:10 am

It's basic supply and demand for unskilled labor. If there was no supply of people willing to make minimum wage for this work, wages would rise.

I made more than that loading airplanes for UPS a decade ago, so if you're settling for a minimum wage job, that's your fault.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:17 am

jayunited wrote:
neomax wrote:
I would like to see all of you work for less than $10 an hour and support your family with that. We'll see how long you last. Nobody gives a fuck if there are other jobs are out there if they all offer the same shit wage. If you can't pay your employees a living wage, then don't hire them in the first place. Temporary unemployment is better than the permanent poverty employees suffer with sub $10 wages. There is no moral way to justify it, especially when executives are printing money at the expense of the hard-working employees who are on the front lines and without whom you wouldn't have an airline. Stop treating your people like criminals, they're your employees for God's sake!


First and foremost take it down a notch there is no need for harsh language on this thread.
I started working for United over 22 years ago in the paging office at ORD (back when you would hear passenger "X" please pick up a white paging phone United has a message for you). I was making $7.25 an hour, although I was single at the time $7.25 an hour was not enough to support myself but it was a starting point. From there I became a UM runner and from there went on to work on the ramp at ORD. I chose the ramp over customer service because ramp agents back then hit top scale in 5 years whereas C.S. agents it took 10 years. I now work at Willis Tower in a job I love and I'm making over six figures a year. However the road to Willis was not easy over the past 22 years I took out college loans to put myself through college, worked the midnight shift at ORD just so I could go to school full time and when school was on break I work as much overtime as I could to help pay for my education. I graduated in 3 years with my bachelors (that's right 3 years), I took a few years off to recover from all that hard work then went back to college to get my masters degree. Why did I do all of this you may ask? It is because although I enjoyed working on the ramp I didn't want to spend my entire career on the ramp and I knew United would only pay me so much money as a ramp service agent. I knew If I wanted to make what I considered real money I would need a college degree and not just a bachelors degree. I knew I would need to make myself better and marketable so that I could advance out of a job that required me to do manual labor. I used the entry level job as a step stool to get my foot in the door with United but that is all it was and all it should have been.
When people apply for entry level jobs they do with the knowledge that it is entry level and the pay will not be great. A company is not going to change their pay structure just because an applicant has a family, a mortgage, a car note among other bills. I grew up poor in what many people would consider the ghettos of Chicago my dad worked 2 jobs to support my mom all 5 of their children but they taught us the way up is through hard work, an education and determination. I followed their advise and that is how I am where I am today and make the money I make today and it is not just me my 3 sisters and my bother we all now make over 6 figures a years and it wasn't handed to us we earned it.
It is not American Eagle, United Express, DGS, or any other companies responsibility to pull people out of poverty, if you want to make more money do something about it and stop complaining because an entry level job is only paying you $10 dollars an hour.

:checkmark:
The problem with arguments from critics like neomax is that there's very little sense of proportion when talking about low wage jobs. Yes, making a low wage can suck, but the key here is "starting point." The labor stats bear out this fact in that the vast majority of workers at these pay scales are part-timers who move on to better positions. Instances of people working long-term and full-time in these positions, trying to support families are actually pretty rare. For the vast majority, these positions are an important starting point for getting into the labor pipeline to move up, particularly if you're trying to establish work history and skills that better paying jobs require.

I actually worked at American Eagle part-time and none of the station employees but for perhaps 4-6 (out of 20 or so total) were full-time...and those that were were making higher supervisor/manager/dispatcher-level pay. One of the guys I worked with had a very well paying job as a tattoo artist but was only working the Eagle job for the health insurance...another was a full-time postal employee who worked Eagle maybe for 8-10 hours a week on the late shifts just for the flight benefits because his wife was from Belgium.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:27 am

IPFreely wrote:
AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
"For the next 10 years, however, there are no guarantees."


LOL. I guess they should go find an employer that will give them a 10 year guarantee.

iad51fl wrote:
If they do not like the pay, move on. If Envoy has enough people walking out and can not run operations...


This is 100% correct. These employees are not victims. Nobody is forcing them to work for $10 an hour or less. They are free to go make as much or as little money as they can, anywhere they want.

The issue is there has been little real economic growth for a decade. Look at Shadowstats unemployment. They aren't political, they just report unemployment as it used to (politicians are always working to artificially lower the number). We're just now starting to come down from recession levels of job availability. The gig economy and the destruction of full time jobs (due to health care taxes, for example with waitresses) just peanut buttered out what jobs there were:

Link: shadowstats.com (as required to share the data):
Image

neomax wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
neomax wrote:

I would like to see all of you work for less than $10 an hour and support your family with that. We'll see how long you last. Nobody gives a fuck if there are other jobs are out there if they all offer the same shit wage. If you can't pay your employees a living wage, then don't hire them in the first place. Temporary unemployment is better than the permanent poverty employees suffer with sub $10 wages. There is no moral way to justify it, especially when executives are printing money at the expense of the hard-working employees who are on the front lines and without whom you wouldn't have an airline. Stop treating your people like criminals, they're your employees for God's sake!


Most people here don't have to raise a family on less than $10 an hour because they believe in getting paid more by being worth more to their employer, and not demanding higher wages for reasons of social justice. And most of them have started out at less than that, and progressed by remembering who they work for and not by whining, constantly saying "That's not my job", refusing to spend 5 minutes finishing something off the clock, demanding a hug because they're stressed or standing on soap boxes, crying about what the world owes them.


Do you currently raise a family on less than $10/hr?


Near minimum wage jobs are not for people raising families. If you want real wages, you have to go out and earn skills. My employer highers technicians at paltry wages. But they will, over 15 years, work their way up to $50+/hour if they develop skills.

Regionals are a marginal business. AA has cut costs to the bone in order to make the minimum profit required to keep serving markets. What is needed is much more efficient equipment (say MRJs), and automated systems so you don't need $10/hr employees.

Or raise the wages and give reasons to automate.

[quote="airtran737"Envoy is able to hire and train, but Piedmont is taking six months to train new hire pilots. Soon, all three carriers will have even more trouble finding qualified applicants due to airlines such as Endeavor and Republic substantially raising wages and sucking the best pilots up.[/quote]

We're finally seeing enough economic growth to put strain on wages, in particular for jobs that require training (skills).

Airtravel is a reflection of the economy. We have the same thing happening with pilots, truck drivers, welders,
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career ... ?a=viewall

It is good to finally be having the real economy growing. For this will push up real wages. Now, with increasing costs, it will also push up automation... Cest la vie, this isn't a zero sum gain.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17961
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:27 am

IPFreely wrote:
AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
"For the next 10 years, however, there are no guarantees."


LOL. I guess they should go find an employer that will give them a 10 year guarantee.

iad51fl wrote:
If they do not like the pay, move on. If Envoy has enough people walking out and can not run operations...


This is 100% correct. These employees are not victims. Nobody is forcing them to work for $10 an hour or less. They are free to go make as much or as little money as they can, anywhere they want.

The issue is there has been little real economic growth for a decade. Look at Shadowstats unemployment. They aren't political, they just report unemployment as it used to (politicians are always working to artificially lower the number). We're just now starting to come down from recession levels of job availability. The gig economy and the destruction of full time jobs (due to health care taxes, for example with waitresses) just peanut buttered out what jobs there were:

Link: shadowstats.com (as required to share the data):
Image

neomax wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
neomax wrote:

I would like to see all of you work for less than $10 an hour and support your family with that. We'll see how long you last. Nobody gives a fuck if there are other jobs are out there if they all offer the same shit wage. If you can't pay your employees a living wage, then don't hire them in the first place. Temporary unemployment is better than the permanent poverty employees suffer with sub $10 wages. There is no moral way to justify it, especially when executives are printing money at the expense of the hard-working employees who are on the front lines and without whom you wouldn't have an airline. Stop treating your people like criminals, they're your employees for God's sake!


Most people here don't have to raise a family on less than $10 an hour because they believe in getting paid more by being worth more to their employer, and not demanding higher wages for reasons of social justice. And most of them have started out at less than that, and progressed by remembering who they work for and not by whining, constantly saying "That's not my job", refusing to spend 5 minutes finishing something off the clock, demanding a hug because they're stressed or standing on soap boxes, crying about what the world owes them.


Do you currently raise a family on less than $10/hr?


Near minimum wage jobs are not for people raising families. If you want real wages, you have to go out and earn skills. My employer highers technicians at paltry wages. But they will, over 15 years, work their way up to $50+/hour if they develop skills.

Regionals are a marginal business. AA has cut costs to the bone in order to make the minimum profit required to keep serving markets. What is needed is much more efficient equipment (say MRJs), and automated systems so you don't need $10/hr employees.

Or raise the wages and give reasons to automate.

[quote="airtran737"Envoy is able to hire and train, but Piedmont is taking six months to train new hire pilots. Soon, all three carriers will have even more trouble finding qualified applicants due to airlines such as Endeavor and Republic substantially raising wages and sucking the best pilots up.[/quote]

We're finally seeing enough economic growth to put strain on wages, in particular for jobs that require training (skills).

Airtravel is a reflection of the economy. We have the same thing happening with pilots, truck drivers, welders,
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career ... ?a=viewall

It is good to finally be having the real economy growing. For this will push up real wages. Now, with increasing costs, it will also push up automation... Cest la vie, this isn't a zero sum gain.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:28 am

I understand the Envoy employees problem, but it's not that simple. If the costs between the regionals and mainline gets too small then there is no reason to even have regional employees. They can pay the Envoy employees more, but will just outsource more work to another vendor with no flight benefits and back at the lower pay that Envoy refused.

Envoy employees voted to go union a while back and are still formulating a contract so I think this is just a ploy to get management to move more quickly.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:04 am

sunking737 wrote:
Any smart person would use Eagle as a stepping stone to American or any other major airline. I took a job with Signature Flight Support, to get to know people at Sun Country in MSP. I worked for SY for many years.

If you want to work for American, the worst thing you can do is to start by working for one of the subsidiaries. They almost never hire folks that work for Envoy, PSA or Piedmont, with the exception of pilots who flow based on seniority.
 
nutsaboutplanes
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:37 am

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:14 am

silentbob wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Any smart person would use Eagle as a stepping stone to American or any other major airline. I took a job with Signature Flight Support, to get to know people at Sun Country in MSP. I worked for SY for many years.

If you want to work for American, the worst thing you can do is to start by working for one of the subsidiaries. They almost never hire folks that work for Envoy, PSA or Piedmont, with the exception of pilots who flow based on seniority.


This is not true. In every hiring effort there are significant numbers of Envoy personnel who are hired by mainline AA. There is also a preferential hiring process for the ramp groups and the airline struggles to keep employment numbers stable at the subsidiaries when accomplishing large scale hiring in the mainline operation.
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2834
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:22 am

MAH4546 wrote:
I can’t stand Parker but there is nothing wrong being done here. Nobody is forced to work for $9.48/hr. If an employee is unhappy they can quit.


Such is also below the minimum wage in certain states though.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:27 am

nutsaboutplanes wrote:
silentbob wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Any smart person would use Eagle as a stepping stone to American or any other major airline. I took a job with Signature Flight Support, to get to know people at Sun Country in MSP. I worked for SY for many years.

If you want to work for American, the worst thing you can do is to start by working for one of the subsidiaries. They almost never hire folks that work for Envoy, PSA or Piedmont, with the exception of pilots who flow based on seniority.


This is not true. In every hiring effort there are significant numbers of Envoy personnel who are hired by mainline AA. There is also a preferential hiring process for the ramp groups and the airline struggles to keep employment numbers stable at the subsidiaries when accomplishing large scale hiring in the mainline operation.


I know for both McGee and United Ground Express, both represented by the IAM, they are given priority for IAM positions open at mainline. I'm assuming the new Envoy contract with the CWA will be similar as well as other regionals.
 
continental004
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:30 am

Disgusting how so many of you are blinded by your economic privilege to see why this is a problem. We need a $15 minimum wage NOW.

I wish Bernie was our president...
 
thegoldenargosy
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:14 am

Re: Employees of American Airlines-Owned American Eagle Make Less Than $10 an Hour

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:36 am

Delta full time agents above & below wing start at $13.63. They cap out at $30.13 after 10yrs of service.

Ready Reserve (part time) agents start at $14.13 and cap at out $15.01 after a year.

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