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brian415
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Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:25 pm

United recently announced some very long flights to be operated by SkyWest on E175 aircraft:

MSN-SFO - 1,541 nm - daily
ORD-FAT - 1,504 nm - daily

The block times westbound are 4 hours 41 minutes, and 4 hours 32 minutes, respectively. Do the economics of these routes on this kind of equipment make sense? Or is UA simply testing the waters for a future upgauge?
 
brian415
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:04 am

An additional question is: are these the longest domestic E-Jet routes?

I know AC has a few E-Jet routes with slightly longer legs.
 
kevin5345179
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:07 am

brian415 wrote:
An additional question is: are these the longest domestic E-Jet routes?

I know AC has a few E-Jet routes with slightly longer legs.


According to wiki:

Embraer E175 Jetliner St. Louis San Francisco 2,793 kilometres (1,508 nmi; 1,735 mi) 4:23 United Airlines UA 5275

I think what you referred is E190

Embraer E190 Jetliner Toronto—Pearson Portland, Oregon 3,375 kilometres (1,822 nmi; 2,097 mi) 5:08 Air Canada AC 547
 
brian415
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:23 am

kevin5345179 wrote:
According to wiki:

Embraer E175 Jetliner St. Louis San Francisco 2,793 kilometres (1,508 nmi; 1,735 mi) 4:23 United Airlines UA 5275


Nice, thanks. Once the route to/from Fresno launch this Summer, it will displace SFO-STL. However, to/from Madison would be a slightly shorter leg than SFO-STL.

1st place: FAT-ORD - 1541 nm
2nd place: SFO-STL - 1508 nm
3rd place: SFO-MSN - 1504 nm

Source:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FAT-ORD&MS=wls&DU=nm
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-STL&MS=wls&DU=nm
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-MSN&MS=wls&DU=nm
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:36 am

Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:40 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB


I've done the SFO-STL route. I enjoyed it more than a 737. Seats are a little wider and you don't have a middle seat person to deal with (or worse being in the middle yourself!).
 
Jshank83
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:42 am

brian415 wrote:
kevin5345179 wrote:
According to wiki:

Embraer E175 Jetliner St. Louis San Francisco 2,793 kilometres (1,508 nmi; 1,735 mi) 4:23 United Airlines UA 5275


Nice, thanks. Once the route to/from Fresno launch this Summer, it will displace SFO-STL. However, to/from Madison would be a slightly shorter leg than SFO-STL.

1st place: FAT-ORD - 1541 nm
2nd place: SFO-STL - 1508 nm
3rd place: SFO-MSN - 1504 nm

Source:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FAT-ORD&MS=wls&DU=nm
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-STL&MS=wls&DU=nm
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-MSN&MS=wls&DU=nm


I think you have 1 and 3 switched. SFO-MSN is the longer one.
 
jwjsamster
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:44 am

I recently took a flight on a E175 with Air Canada from YUL to IAH and we blocked in at 4h 45. I think it responds to a specific market similar to the 787 city to city instead of going through a hub.
 
brian415
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:09 am

Jshank83 wrote:

I think you have 1 and 3 switched. SFO-MSN is the longer one.


Yes, I stand corrected. Thank you. The correct order is:

1st place: SFO-MSN - 1541 nm
2nd place: SFO-STL - 1508 nm
3rd place: FAT-ORD - 1504 nm

Source:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-MSN&MS=wls&DU=nm
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-STL&MS=wls&DU=nm
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FAT-ORD&MS=wls&DU=nm

I tried a quick test to see if it is bookable:

https://skiplagged.com/flights/SFO/MSN/ ... 718,UA5780
 
airzona11
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:21 am

That is a long way to fly such a small amount of people. But no doubt they are skimming the highest yielding traffic for the non-stop. The routes already have hub connections with many flights via SFO/ORD/DEN.

Jshank83 wrote:
TheRedBaron wrote:
Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB


I've done the SFO-STL route. I enjoyed it more than a 737. Seats are a little wider and you don't have a middle seat person to deal with (or worse being in the middle yourself!).


The plan is still smaller tho. I have done some 2-hour flights with a seatmate and the EJets quickly lose their appeal, especially with bags under the seat. Now if there is no one next to me, different story.
 
ninspeed
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:34 am

Done YYC - EWR 1750 nm, 4.5 hrs there, and 5hr 10mkn return on a 190... I never really saw a full flight so you could stretch out a bit and relax... but gets tights when more than 80%full
 
COSPN
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:35 am

The SFO-STL diverted to IND one time so it can make it ..
 
flight152
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:42 am

COSPN wrote:
The SFO-STL diverted to IND one time so it can make it ..

So they overflew its destination and diverted 200 miles in the opposite direction so they could “make it”? Clearly you’re confused.
 
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N776AU
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:55 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB

I appreciate the seat width they have, but if my one flight on a United E175 is any indication, I would pass. Those seats have absolutely zero padding.
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
United1689
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:07 am

N776AU wrote:
TheRedBaron wrote:
Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB

I appreciate the seat width they have, but if my one flight on a United E175 is any indication, I would pass. Those seats have absolutely zero padding.


I agree, I flew AUS-IAD on the E175 a few months ago and the width was good but I really noticed the lack of padding, especially on the back of my head where it touched the top of the seat...pretty uncomfortable.
 
DBKissORD
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:32 am

I know for a fact a company based in Madison has a 100's of employees that travel every week for business across the country. They currently primarily use Delta but United is making a big push to win the business. Note the mainline service added between MSN and ORD the last couple years. On a personal note I don't mind that stage length on an E175 nearly as much as I mind a 1000+ miles on a CR7.
 
cschleic
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:41 am

flight152 wrote:
COSPN wrote:
The SFO-STL diverted to IND one time so it can make it ..

So they overflew its destination and diverted 200 miles in the opposite direction so they could “make it”? Clearly you’re confused.


Maybe it was weather related?
 
JBLUA320
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:15 am

There is also MKE-SEA and ORD-GEG.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:39 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB


I'd fly the E75's 2x2 anyday over a 3x3 config. I don't get this thing that the bigger E-jets and CRJ7/900's are uncomfortable.
 
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TransWorldOne
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:06 am

The biggest problem for me when it comes to these long E-jet flights is the lack of power ports in the main cabin. Wifi and streaming entertainment are great, so long as your phone/tablet/computer doesnt die.
 
jbmitt
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:09 am

My flight yesterday had just turned from the MKE-SEA inbound. I'd presume the crews like the longer block times. It was a pretty comfortable flight.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:14 am

They're not uncomfortable. It's a matter of perception. When Load factors we're in the 60-70% range hardly anybody complained. NOW they're in the 80-90% range and EVERYBODY has heartburn. I find it Amazing!!
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:15 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB


I have done 5:40 in a 737-800 BOM-SIN economy class and it was not too bad. Decent IFE, knock down 2 beers, eat my meal and get knocked out for 4.5 hours. Probably should have taken the aisle seat though.

Have only done 1-2 hour segments on the E170 but I would guess they would be more, not less comfortable than the 737 in economy class?

Having taken both widebodies (787/A310) and the 737 on the route, I dont see much difference honestly. Atleast in economy class.
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
GoSharks
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:45 am

I've done 4 hour blocks on the E175 dozens of times - would take it any day over a 737/A320. Both Y and F.
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:17 am

I have flown on 738 and A320 for close to 6 hours, some seats are better than others, but the cabin is bigger and you have a more airy and less cramped atmosphere. The longest I have flown on a E195 was MEX-SAT and its like 2 hours, its confortable and wider in the seat, but the smaller cabin makes you feel more cramped , I KNOW its a perception, but seating in the back you feel the long thin tube, but its not too bad compared to the smaller older E jets in its 1-2 config or the United´s CRJ from SEA-SFO.... those are torture chambers.... just like the last 3 rows of the old Md-83...

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
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Qantas94Heavy
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:31 am

Now how about this 3 hour 22 minutes flight in an ERJ-145? :eek: :redflag: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LOF4662
 
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ro1960
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:36 am

Long flights on narrow bodies were the norm before the 747, 767 and A300. 8 hour flights on the 707 or DC8 were common. Even Transcon on 5-abreast CV880/990! Of course pitch and seat confort were different back then. There are still numerous TATL on the 757 today. Nothing out of the ordinary.
You may like my airport photos:
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TransWorldOne
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:13 am

Qantas94Heavy wrote:
Now how about this 3 hour 22 minutes flight in an ERJ-145? :eek: :redflag: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LOF4662


Inhumane.
 
PDX88
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:41 am

TransWorldOne wrote:
Qantas94Heavy wrote:
Now how about this 3 hour 22 minutes flight in an ERJ-145? :eek: :redflag: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LOF4662


Inhumane.


First world problems.
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:10 am

DBKissORD wrote:
I know for a fact a company based in Madison has a 100's of employees that travel every week for business across the country. They currently primarily use Delta but United is making a big push to win the business. Note the mainline service added between MSN and ORD the last couple years. On a personal note I don't mind that stage length on an E175 nearly as much as I mind a 1000+ miles on a CR7.


The worst is when the bathroom line reaches the emergency exits.
 
chiki
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:34 am

Constantly do 2.5 to 3 hr on E190 and will take it over a 737/A320 any day. the only problem is no IFE
 
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ro1960
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:05 am

chiki wrote:
Constantly do 2.5 to 3 hr on E190 and will take it over a 737/A320 any day. the only problem is no IFE


No IFE for 3 hours? The idea of having to read a book, a newspaper or a magazine is frightnening! ;)
You may like my airport photos:
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Faro
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:15 am

chiki wrote:
Constantly do 2.5 to 3 hr on E190 and will take it over a 737/A320 any day. the only problem is no IFE



In a very farsighted, truly visionary effort...that problem was tackled and solved to most people's satisfaction...by one J. Gutenberg quite some time ago...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
MaksFly
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:37 pm

ERJ and CRJ, in the 135/145 and 200 variety are one of the only planes I can fall asleep on, lol, especially if there is some decent turbulence.

The older interiors have far better padding on the seats and are more comfortable and you cannot beat how quickly the plane loads and unloads.

Only downside is the lack of wifi/power as someone else mentioned.

Window in a CRJ 200 vs middle seat on a 737? No contest.... give me the CRJ all day long.

Even better on the 135/145 if you are lucky to sit in the single seat.... would fly that ALL day long even cross country if the legs were there.
The single seat in exit row on a 135/145 is probably the BEST economy class seat you can fly today.
 
chiki
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:46 pm

ro1960 wrote:
chiki wrote:
Constantly do 2.5 to 3 hr on E190 and will take it over a 737/A320 any day. the only problem is no IFE


No IFE for 3 hours? The idea of having to read a book, a newspaper or a magazine is frightnening! ;)

Catch up with work a good 2 hours little disturbance
 
COSPN
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:56 pm

Yes weather diversion
 
quickmover
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:09 pm

How can they make any money flying 70 or so passengers halfway across the country? I know flying a larger aircraft is more expensive, but wouldn’t it be more profitable with 200 or so passengers?
 
32andBelow
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:13 pm

They are more comfortable than 737/A320. I'd take the E175 everytime.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:22 pm

Gives me hope of a SFO/MEM on UA. SFO/XNA is out there as well.
Isn't these routes the bread basket of the CS100 and E2's (175 and 190) with their improved performance?
 
N766UA
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:26 pm

N776AU wrote:
TheRedBaron wrote:
Holy Guacamole ! 5 hours, the E jets are quite confortable but 5 hours... heck 5.5 hours on a 739 or A320 is also my top....afterwards I get claustrophobic. Did not know that had that much range...

TRB

I appreciate the seat width they have, but if my one flight on a United E175 is any indication, I would pass. Those seats have absolutely zero padding.


Yep, United’s new seats, especially on Express flights, are absolutely horrendous. I’d almost rather stand.
 
737MAX7
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:00 pm

flight152 wrote:
COSPN wrote:
The SFO-STL diverted to IND one time so it can make it ..

So they overflew its destination and diverted 200 miles in the opposite direction so they could “make it”? Clearly you’re confused.

Uhhh what? Pretty sure COSPN is saying it has the legs for SFO-IND since one was forced to divert en route to STL... pretty sure COSPN isn’t the one that is confused. ;)
 
richierich
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:39 pm

MaksFly wrote:
Window in a CRJ 200 vs middle seat on a 737? No contest.... give me the CRJ all day long.
.


Ugh, a CRJ-200? I don't know about that...the windows are misaligned and give me neck cramps. So I inevitably spend most of the flight staring ahead of me - to which I'd probably just as well fly middle on a B737. At least the seats are generally wider and have better legroom, not impeded by the curvature of the airframe such as in the CRJ, and there is more overhead space too. If you said a CRJ-700 or -900, or anything from the E-jet family, I would agree with you with far less hesitation...Bombardier adjusted the location of the windows in the -700/-900 series, it is a big improvement. I'm a windows guy!
None shall pass!!!!
 
seatrump
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:29 pm

Alaska had been flying MKE-SEA for a couple of years. It's 1473nm but often directly into headwinds in winter. I have flown it dozens of times clocking up 5:17 of flight time once. March 11 AS starts STL-SEA on the 175. 1486 nm. Blocked at 4:48.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:42 pm

Qantas94Heavy wrote:
Now how about this 3 hour 22 minutes flight in an ERJ-145? :eek: :redflag: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LOF4662


UA used to run EWR-OKC (or was it TUL?). That's a good deal farther than DAY-DEN.

If that E175 is the only non-stop in the market then people who value their time will book it. If weather is bad - unusual headwinds, or typical diversion airports blocked by weather - it may need a tech stop. United knows about tech stops... in Gander, Goose Bay, Bangor...
 
panam330
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:26 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
UA used to run EWR-OKC (or was it TUL?). That's a good deal farther than DAY-DEN.

I believe the all-time winner was CO’s IAH-BOI. As RJs go, I love the 145, but no thanks. EWR-DAB was long enough.
 
roadpilot
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:37 am

panam330 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
UA used to run EWR-OKC (or was it TUL?). That's a good deal farther than DAY-DEN.

I believe the all-time winner was CO’s IAH-BOI. As RJs go, I love the 145, but no thanks. EWR-DAB was long enough.


I think the short lived IAH-FRS that CoEx was running with the XRs is up there
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 322
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:42 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Qantas94Heavy wrote:
Now how about this 3 hour 22 minutes flight in an ERJ-145? :eek: :redflag: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LOF4662


UA used to run EWR-OKC (or was it TUL?). That's a good deal farther than DAY-DEN.

If that E175 is the only non-stop in the market then people who value their time will book it. If weather is bad - unusual headwinds, or typical diversion airports blocked by weather - it may need a tech stop. United knows about tech stops... in Gander, Goose Bay, Bangor...


EWR-OKC used to be on an ERJ-145XR. Another a fun flight. I had the “pleasure” to do a round trip on it lol. It was a roughly 4 hour flight.
 
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LOWS
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:56 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Qantas94Heavy wrote:
Now how about this 3 hour 22 minutes flight in an ERJ-145? :eek: :redflag: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LOF4662


UA used to run EWR-OKC (or was it TUL?). That's a good deal farther than DAY-DEN.


EWR-OKC for sure until quite recently.

CO's scope clause didn't allow for RJs above 50 seats. I was once in 3A on a horribly bumpy IAH-PIT. CO ran some incredibly long e145 routes out of the IAH terminal B banjos.

There's a reason Embraer created the E-145XR for Continental.

Those seats barely reach the top of my back though (I'm ~190cm/6'2").

I've seen 145s and CR7s on IAD-ABQ before. That's 1628nm.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Pushing E175 to 4 hours 41 minutes block time

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:40 am

quickmover wrote:
How can they make any money flying 70 or so passengers halfway across the country? I know flying a larger aircraft is more expensive, but wouldn’t it be more profitable with 200 or so passengers?

It would be if the loads were 200 passengers on a regular basis. Maybe 70 passengers are all they can get at the moment.

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