lanperu
Topic Author
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777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:37 am

Hi:

I was wondering if a configuration of 2-4-2 in economy would be profitable or will it cost the airline too much money? Would it save money on fuel since there are less seats? Any help? Thanks.

LP
 
DeltaAir
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 1:36 am

I've actually pondered this myself. There are only a limited number of arrangements that even remotely make this worth while. The main one is similar to what Delta has on their 777s, only 2 classes.
 
fly_emirates
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 1:36 am

the 777's are designed either to be 9 abreast or 10 abreast!!! cant reduce more than that, other wise airlines would have opted fo the Airbus wide bodies or the 767 instead
 
baec777
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 2:26 am

American Airlines has more leg room, removing some seats off the plane getting the best seat pitch & width. I was on AA105 JFKDFW flight Oct 27/01, and I felt pretty much happy about it. American B772s really has more leg room as well, not much passengers as with more legroom. More Passengers are without legrooms like other airline does.....

baec
 
Jj
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 2:41 am

I prefer to have a 3-3-3 config, with more legroom, than a 2-4-2 with less legroom. Actually in boath ways you are getting rid of some seats, and save weight a bit, and in consecuence fuel.

jj
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 6:36 am

I want happen, remember the L1011 and the DC-10 were originally with 8 abreast. The need for profits came and 9 became the standard and all of them are about the same width, I doubt they will go back to 8 abreast.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
bacardi182
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:55 am

Don't BA have 2-4-2 in buisness class?
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:00 am

Maybe in business class Bacardi, but I think he was referring to Coach/Economy class.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
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keesje
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:09 am

BA is introducing 8 abreast in economy plus class, also with more 25 % more pitch.

Lots of accounts are now buying economy plus tickets instead of business class tickets.

I think BA hates it. It was hoped economy passenger would pay extra to get in economy plus ..

BA also has beds in Business class, now First class passengers are buying those, same issue.

Perhaps BA lost their heads in improving quality and underestimated the calculating passengers ...

cheers

kees



"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
transswede
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:53 am

Speaking of Economy plus, SAS A340's have 7 seats across (2-3-2) in their economy plus, compared to the normal 2-4-2.
 
baec777
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 11:08 am

Well, I flew on British Airways DC10-30 2x and the economy is really 9 abreasts per row. [DFW-LGW(1x)][LGW-DFW(1x)]; And for Royal Jordanian Tristar 500s, I flew on them 4x with 9 abreasts as well in economy class. [ORD-AMS-AMM(1x)], [AMM-AMS-ORD(2x)], [JFK-AMS-AMM(1x)]

baec
 
thadocta
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Sun Mar 03, 2002 11:00 pm

"I prefer to have a 3-3-3 config, with more legroom, than a 2-4-2 with less legroom."

For nine-across, I actually prefer 2-5-2 - with 3-3-3 you have two passengers who are three seats from the aisle, three who are two seats from the aisle and four who are on the aisle. With 2-5-2 you only have one passenger who is three seats from the aisle, four who are two seats from the aisle and four who are on the aisle.

Makes it much more convenient passenger-wise (and cabin crew wise) on a long flight, as passengers generally have to climb over less bodies to get to the lavs, etc. Cabin crew have less distance to pass meal trays, etc.

Dave
 
delta-flyer
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:34 am

In response to the original post, I suppose 2-4-2 may be profitable if a higher price can be realized per seat. You are looking at reducing capacity in coach by 11%.

If your load factors are low, then of course it will not matter. But in that case, it would make more sense to switch to a smaller aircraft.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
cba
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:02 am

Actually, 9 abreast is quite generous for a 777. I remember reading somewhere that the aircraft was originally designed with 10 abreast in mind. Take a look at Boeing's web site:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/777technical.html

I also heard that the 777 has wider seats than an A340 does, and this is when the 777 is in a 3-4-3 configuration.
 
milesrich
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:11 am

8 abreast with 36 inches of pitch is how domestic DC-10's were originally configured. An economy plus of limited capacity would work with this arrangement. If your company wont swing for business class, are you going to pick the airline with this configuration, or just worry about FF miles that can't be redeemed easily.
 
Jj
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Thadocta

Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:18 am

Actually, with 3-3-3, you have:

2 pax, 2 seats from the aisle
3 pax, 1 seat from the aisle
4 pax, in the aisle

'Sides, i wouldn't like to get cramped in the middle seat of the row of 5.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:34 am

There's also the possibility of 2-4-3; this way there is no "middle seat" in the row of 5, and there is the flexibility of having either 2 or 3 seats side by side along the wall for families traveling together.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
cba
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:47 am

The only complaint I have about 3-3-3 is that it's not too great for people travelling in pairs. However, the middle seat on 2-5-2 must be horrendous. I flew an 11 hour CDG-IAH haul in the center seat of a 763, and it was torture. I can't imagine flying in the center seat of a 2-5-2 configuration. 3-4-2 is the best way to go IMO.
 
strickerje
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:02 am

KLM has 3-4-2 on their MD-11's, and I've heard that in some cases, such an asymmetrical configuration may confuse passengers in the event of an emergency evacuation. It seems there is no perfect configuration for 9 across...

How about a 12 abreast, 3-6-3?  Smile
 
jaysit
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:03 am

The reason most airlines cram in as many pax as possible is because the airline industry has very very low profit margins - 1% or perhaps 2% in a good year. So, its those additional 3 pax on a full flight that provide the profits.

I'm sorry, but I just dont think that a 2-4-2 config in coach on a 777 is in any way even a remote possibility.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Iflewrepublic
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:02 am

12 abreast...don't say that too loud or else Leo and what's his name at United will get the bright idea to do that. I've always felt sorry for the people who've had to sit in the middle of any row...even on the DC-9's and 727's.

Iflewrepublic.
Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
transswede
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:36 am

>I also heard that the 777 has wider seats than an
>A340 does, and this is when the 777 is in a 3-4-3
>configuration.

Nope - This is in 2-5-2 (or 3-3-3) configuration (but not by much). In 3-4-3, the seats are thinner than standard Airbus seat width.
 
transswede
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:41 am

Regarding seat configurations - What I'd like to see on the A380 is 2-3-3-2 - that would be awesome! (and doable)
 
bombayhog
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:59 am

What will the A380 configuration be for economy class?
 
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keesje
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Mon Mar 04, 2002 8:10 pm

Interresting subject, we had a well attended discussion on this a few months ago :

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/666334/6/

cheers

keesje
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
CF-CPI
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RE: 777 Configuration Of 2-4-2 Profitable?

Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:44 am

The 2-4-2 seating on a 777 would give you pairs of seats that are the same width as the 767 2-2-2. i.e., domestic first class or perhaps a 'premium economy' cabin for international runs. When Thai Airways introduced the 777 in int'l service, the business cabin was indeed configured 2-4-2 and pax screamed bloody murder. Perhaps they have reconfigured, but I sure would enjoy 2-4-2 at something resembling coach prices.

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