Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
flymco753
Topic Author
Posts: 3412
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:26 pm

If you do a little bit of research, Waco is really becoming something. As of right now, the only scheduled passenger service is on American Eagle to Dallas. The city is also bracketed between Dallas and Austin which makes it difficult to analyze potential markets.

What kind of potential is there for new service in this region?
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
User avatar
BN727227Ultra
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:15 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:38 pm

I'd imagine the usual suspects; UA to ORD and IAH, AA to ORD, Allegiant or F9 1x to some place warm on Sat or Sun. I wouldn't expect a lot of freqs, though.

And for all the muttering from DL wanting to address their deficiencies in Texas, they did just get rid of GRK--so I think ATL is a longshot.

Possibly ELP or OKC or MSY for someone wanting to think outside the box.
 
DFWAviator76
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:50 pm

It's proximity to Dallas and Austin means it won't get anything new, other than possibly UA to IAH. CO tried to make service to IAH work in the early 2000s, but it didn't last. ACT will always play second fiddle to GRK due to GRK's military traffic. If it doesn't work at GRK, it won't work at ACT.

I am personally surprised that UA hasn't taken a run at markets such as ACT, ABI, SJT, SPS, and TYR, but my guess is that those markets just don't have enough critical mass for two carriers.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:55 pm

It's really too close to AUS and DFW. If anyone comes in it'll be G4, but that's a big if.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3347
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:59 pm

flymco753 wrote:
If you do a little bit of research, Waco is really becoming something. As of right now, the only scheduled passenger service is on American Eagle to Dallas. The city is also bracketed between Dallas and Austin which makes it difficult to analyze potential markets.

What kind of potential is there for new service in this region?



Not much, there is a reason United Express, Connection or whatever they call it left. And it was service to IAH. Most of Waco flyers drive up the I-35E or I-35W to DFW. Nice thing about ACT no crowds and free parking.

The whole I-35 corridor is growing, so is Temple and Belton thirty minutes to the south and home to the largest hospital center in Texas. Those flyers either drive and hour to AUS or thirty minutes to GRK.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3347
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:01 pm

DFWAviator76 wrote:
It's proximity to Dallas and Austin means it won't get anything new, other than possibly UA to IAH. CO tried to make service to IAH work in the early 2000s, but it didn't last. ACT will always play second fiddle to GRK due to GRK's military traffic. If it doesn't work at GRK, it won't work at ACT.

I am personally surprised that UA hasn't taken a run at markets such as ACT, ABI, SJT, SPS, and TYR, but my guess is that those markets just don't have enough critical mass for two carriers.


This is where the loss of the 30 pax turboprop comes into play.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Id love to see UA go to Waco. Of all the routes missing from UA's Texas network this is the one I want most.

But honestly without them getting prop planes back, I dont see it.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 4319
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:23 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
It's really too close to AUS and DFW. If anyone comes in it'll be G4, but that's a big if.


Actually I think this place has potential just because of it's proximity to those large cities. Landing and handling costs at Dallas and Austin are most likely much higher than in Waco. It's an easy drive from this airport to both cities, so it can serve as an alternative. I'm sure if Ryanair or Wizzair would have operated in these regions they would have given it a go, they're known for avoiding big expensive airports and picking smaller alternatives instead. Those alternatives got two benefits. First they're cheaper, second they're more flexible. No hassle with slots, never operate flights at the times you would have liked because the slots aren't available. At smaller airports the capacity is just there any time of the day.

Currently the only flight at this airport is to Dallas Fort Worth, a distance that actually means nothing. You can put a bus on that route and it would hardly be any slower. Flights got to have a certain minimum length to be profitable, anything below that faces competition from ground transport and is therefor not profitable.

If an airline would have the guts to start bus services from Waco airport to Dallas and Austin connecting to a flight let's say Waco - New York, that would be an excellent alternative to a Dallas - New York and Austin - New York flight. I think it could just be a success. These kind of constructions are often seen here in Europe (Ryanair and Wizzair offer connecting bus services from most of their remote served airports), but Americans still have to get used to the idea. Only place in America where this is done is Norwegian at New York Stewart airport, where a bus service connects the Norwegian flights to New York city. And it works because Europeans are used to the idea.
 
msycajun
Posts: 1130
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:12 pm

I think ACT-MSY would be an interesting proposition if Silver wants to expand more into the Southeast with the ATRs. It's a long enough distance that there would be some decent O&D (compared to DFW, IAH, or AUS) and with the codeshare could connect to UA and B6's flights to ORD, EWR, IAD, SFO, DEN, JFK, BOS, and FLL.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:32 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
I'd imagine the usual suspects; UA to ORD and IAH, AA to ORD, Allegiant or F9 1x to some place warm on Sat or Sun. I wouldn't expect a lot of freqs, though.

And for all the muttering from DL wanting to address their deficiencies in Texas, they did just get rid of GRK--so I think ATL is a longshot.

Possibly ELP or OKC or MSY for someone wanting to think outside the box.

All good possibilities. This would probably be a long shot, but I would also add AA Eagle to LAX on the E175.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7111
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:31 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Actually I think this place has potential just because of it's proximity to those large cities. Landing and handling costs at Dallas and Austin are most likely much higher than in Waco. It's an easy drive from this airport to both cities, so it can serve as an alternative. I'm sure if Ryanair or Wizzair would have operated in these regions they would have given it a go, they're known for avoiding big expensive airports and picking smaller alternatives instead. Those alternatives got two benefits. First they're cheaper, second they're more flexible. No hassle with slots, never operate flights at the times you would have liked because the slots aren't available. At smaller airports the capacity is just there any time of the day.


There's no shortage of capacity at AUS or DFW, and the only shortage of capacity at DAL is artificial thanks to a law put in place to protect DFW and its principal tenant. AUS is expanding its main terminal and has allowed a private company to build a low-cost terminal at the airport as well. DFW has no shortage of room to build new terminals and also has available gates for new entrants. No airport in Texas is slot-controlled. And with ULCCs like NK, F9, and G4 at AUS and/or DFW, as well as WN at both AUS & DAL, there's limited room to underprice in order to drive price-sensitive traffic to ACT.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
If an airline would have the guts to start bus services from Waco airport to Dallas and Austin connecting to a flight let's say Waco - New York, that would be an excellent alternative to a Dallas - New York and Austin - New York flight. I think it could just be a success. These kind of constructions are often seen here in Europe (Ryanair and Wizzair offer connecting bus services from most of their remote served airports), but Americans still have to get used to the idea.


Texans don't take a bus to the airport. They drive. And a key problem with the "bus to the city" concept is that American cities outside of the Northeast often tend to have multiple business areas and poor public transit, so there's no convenient central hub for that bus to service.
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:32 pm

I love Waco, though unless I need to get in-n-out in a hurry, personally I would prefer to make the drive up Hwy 6 from Houston. Perhaps a UA ACT-IAH may get another chance, who knows? N/S service from outside the state, I am skeptical. I usually hit Waco 4-5 times a year, definitely worth the visit and like Corpus, an underrated Texas gem, working very hard to shake off the tragic events of 1993 and succeeding.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:51 pm

ScottB wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Actually I think this place has potential just because of it's proximity to those large cities. Landing and handling costs at Dallas and Austin are most likely much higher than in Waco. It's an easy drive from this airport to both cities, so it can serve as an alternative. I'm sure if Ryanair or Wizzair would have operated in these regions they would have given it a go, they're known for avoiding big expensive airports and picking smaller alternatives instead. Those alternatives got two benefits. First they're cheaper, second they're more flexible. No hassle with slots, never operate flights at the times you would have liked because the slots aren't available. At smaller airports the capacity is just there any time of the day.


There's no shortage of capacity at AUS or DFW, and the only shortage of capacity at DAL is artificial thanks to a law put in place to protect DFW and its principal tenant. AUS is expanding its main terminal and has allowed a private company to build a low-cost terminal at the airport as well. DFW has no shortage of room to build new terminals and also has available gates for new entrants. No airport in Texas is slot-controlled. And with ULCCs like NK, F9, and G4 at AUS and/or DFW, as well as WN at both AUS & DAL, there's limited room to underprice in order to drive price-sensitive traffic to ACT.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
If an airline would have the guts to start bus services from Waco airport to Dallas and Austin connecting to a flight let's say Waco - New York, that would be an excellent alternative to a Dallas - New York and Austin - New York flight. I think it could just be a success. These kind of constructions are often seen here in Europe (Ryanair and Wizzair offer connecting bus services from most of their remote served airports), but Americans still have to get used to the idea.


Texans don't take a bus to the airport. They drive. And a key problem with the "bus to the city" concept is that American cities outside of the Northeast often tend to have multiple business areas and poor public transit, so there's no convenient central hub for that bus to service.


To add on to this, exactly which airport Ryanair fly to is almost 100mi away from the city it's suppose to served? For all the talk about how far BVA is, it's still "only" 60mi from Central Paris. (SWF is ~75mi from NYC. But NYC airports are a LOT more congested than DFW or AUS)

Now, if they ever build a high-speed train on I-35 corridor between San Antonio and Dallas, then yes, Waco can be a fair alternative. It goes the other way also, though (No need for air service at Waco when they can ride the HSR to Dallas or Austin to catch a flight from there).
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:59 pm

The problem with Waco is that, outside of Baylor University (my alma matter) and some health care, there's really not significant business demand for commercial flights. The city has grown some of late, what with the whole Chip and Joanna "Magnolia" craze, but those shoppers come in on private jets. When I was a student there, Waco was like the 8th poorest city in the country or something.

There is/was a shuttle service to DFW called the Waco Streak for those who don't want to drive. The issue with AA Eagle, like in many smaller cities, is reliability. Is the free parking and ability to show up 30-45 mins before a flight work having to be restricted to Eagle's infrequent schedule and taking the risk of the flight cancelling? Most people decided it is easier to drive the 1:45 to DFW or AUS. I rarely flew in and out of ACT during my 4 years as a student.

Nonstops to NYC or LA will never happen. At best, I could see UA restarting IAH, especially if they are looking for a place to dump their additional CRJ-200s, but that's about it.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:07 pm

FA9295 wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
I'd imagine the usual suspects; UA to ORD and IAH, AA to ORD, Allegiant or F9 1x to some place warm on Sat or Sun. I wouldn't expect a lot of freqs, though.

And for all the muttering from DL wanting to address their deficiencies in Texas, they did just get rid of GRK--so I think ATL is a longshot.

Possibly ELP or OKC or MSY for someone wanting to think outside the box.

All good possibilities. This would probably be a long shot, but I would also add AA Eagle to LAX on the E175.


From LAX, AA would go into AMA, LBB, MAF, and maybe GRK before ACT.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3112
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:42 pm

I think JR Ewing and Bobby were big users of Waco back in the day.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3347
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:01 pm

UALFAson wrote:
The problem with Waco is that, outside of Baylor University (my alma matter) and some health care, there's really not significant business demand for commercial flights. The city has grown some of late, what with the whole Chip and Joanna "Magnolia" craze, but those shoppers come in on private jets. When I was a student there, Waco was like the 8th poorest city in the country or something.

There is/was a shuttle service to DFW called the Waco Streak for those who don't want to drive. The issue with AA Eagle, like in many smaller cities, is reliability. Is the free parking and ability to show up 30-45 mins before a flight work having to be restricted to Eagle's infrequent schedule and taking the risk of the flight cancelling? Most people decided it is easier to drive the 1:45 to DFW or AUS. I rarely flew in and out of ACT during my 4 years as a student.

Nonstops to NYC or LA will never happen. At best, I could see UA restarting IAH, especially if they are looking for a place to dump their additional CRJ-200s, but that's about it.


Thank you, this is the Waco I know. All of this talk of increasing flights for Waco was throwing me off. Outside of Baylor what is there at Waco, and please do not the Dr. Pepper Museum. We are talking about Waco, Texas, right?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:28 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
I'd imagine the usual suspects; UA to ORD and IAH, AA to ORD, Allegiant or F9 1x to some place warm on Sat or Sun. I wouldn't expect a lot of freqs, though.

And for all the muttering from DL wanting to address their deficiencies in Texas, they did just get rid of GRK--so I think ATL is a longshot.

Possibly ELP or OKC or MSY for someone wanting to think outside the box.

All good possibilities. This would probably be a long shot, but I would also add AA Eagle to LAX on the E175.


From LAX, AA would go into AMA, LBB, MAF, and maybe GRK before ACT.


Add on, for any addition on AA towards the west it'll be PHX first WAY before LAX. That's what PHX is there for anyway (LBB, MAF, and soon AMA all have DFW and PHX services for that reason).

The other factor is that ACT catchment area is just not big. The only other larger metro in that area, Killeen/Temple, has its own airport (that doesn't really have that much services either and can't even sustain flights to ATL).

Like many said, about the only routes that ACT will see in short-term is IAH, but that's about it.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8479
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:12 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
If an airline would have the guts to start bus services from Waco airport to Dallas and Austin connecting to a flight let's say Waco - New York, that would be an excellent alternative to a Dallas - New York and Austin - New York flight. I think it could just be a success. These kind of constructions are often seen here in Europe (Ryanair and Wizzair offer connecting bus services from most of their remote served airports), but Americans still have to get used to the idea.


Americans haven't gotten used to the idea because it's a stupid idea, landing at an airport that's more than 100 miles away from your destination. It kills the time efficiency of flight, and it's time savings that leads business travelers to pay good money for air travel.

The idea 'caught on' in Europe because legacy carriers couldn't restructure effectively (Sabena, Alitalia 1 2 3, Olympic, BMI...), and established airports didn't grow, to meet the price & service needs of travelers. Nobody really wants to fly to Beauvais, or Hahn, or Charleroi. If CDG, FRA and BRU had capacity, people would prefer them overwhelmingly.

It's as if Denver International Airport had never been built to replace Stapleton and we told people they really ought to be happy flying to Cheyenne and busing down US-85.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:29 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
If an airline would have the guts to start bus services from Waco airport to Dallas and Austin connecting to a flight let's say Waco - New York, that would be an excellent alternative to a Dallas - New York and Austin - New York flight. I think it could just be a success. These kind of constructions are often seen here in Europe (Ryanair and Wizzair offer connecting bus services from most of their remote served airports), but Americans still have to get used to the idea.


Americans haven't gotten used to the idea because it's a stupid idea, landing at an airport that's more than 100 miles away from your destination. It kills the time efficiency of flight, and it's time savings that leads business travelers to pay good money for air travel.

The idea 'caught on' in Europe because legacy carriers couldn't restructure effectively (Sabena, Alitalia 1 2 3, Olympic, BMI...), and established airports didn't grow, to meet the price & service needs of travelers. Nobody really wants to fly to Beauvais, or Hahn, or Charleroi. If CDG, FRA and BRU had capacity, people would prefer them overwhelmingly.

It's as if Denver International Airport had never been built to replace Stapleton and we told people they really ought to be happy flying to Cheyenne and busing down US-85.


Quite frankly, ACT is really, really far from Austin or DFW when it comes to driving distance.

The furthest of the 3 you listed, HHN to Frankfurt, is about 75mi. CRL to Brussels is like 40mi (and people easily drive that far within a metro area in USA. Take my old home in SW suburb of Houston, to IAH it's 45mi).

Meanwhile, Waco is 110mi from central Austin and 100mi from central Dallas. Nobody is going to waste their time to drive that far to catch a domestic flight with much better options nearby in AUS and DAL/DFW. Try to fight with fare? SWA is going to kill them off in no time.
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:19 am

This is up there with AUS-MNL as potential flights.

This forum is getting insured!

Tomorrow: MKE to overtake ORD on number of international seats per day.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
All good possibilities. This would probably be a long shot, but I would also add AA Eagle to LAX on the E175.


From LAX, AA would go into AMA, LBB, MAF, and maybe GRK before ACT.


Add on, for any addition on AA towards the west it'll be PHX first WAY before LAX. That's what PHX is there for anyway (LBB, MAF, and soon AMA all have DFW and PHX services for that reason).

The other factor is that ACT catchment area is just not big. The only other larger metro in that area, Killeen/Temple, has its own airport (that doesn't really have that much services either and can't even sustain flights to ATL).

Like many said, about the only routes that ACT will see in short-term is IAH, but that's about it.


That's what I was pointing out. Lot's of Texas cities would see an LAX flight before Waco. In reality, none will, but as you say, might get a flight from PHX.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 4319
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:20 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
To add on to this, exactly which airport Ryanair fly to is almost 100mi away from the city it's suppose to served? For all the talk about how far BVA is, it's still "only" 60mi from Central Paris. (SWF is ~75mi from NYC. But NYC airports are a LOT more congested than DFW or AUS)


Maybe not "supposed to serve" as it doesn't carry the name, but Eindhoven is about that distance from Amsterdam and it's the main airport for Ryanair and Wizzair in the Netherlands. There's a bus connection between Eindhoven airport and Amsterdam that's bookable through both airlines and a good deal of all passengers using Eindhoven actually go to Amsterdam. Compare that to EasyJet who has their main Dutch base at Amsterdam, but is always more expensive than Ryanair out of Eindhoven. Often so much more expensive that even with the Eindhoven - Amsterdam bus added to the ticket price Ryanair from Eindhoven is still cheaper. On top of that Ryanair also captures a lot of local demand from Eindhoven and surroundings, where Easyjet at Amsterdam doesn't capture any demand other than from Amsterdam and surroundings. Nobody from Eindhoven goes all the way to Amsterdam to fly EasyJet.
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1971
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:51 pm

william wrote:
Thank you, this is the Waco I know. All of this talk of increasing flights for Waco was throwing me off. Outside of Baylor what is there at Waco, and please do not the Dr. Pepper Museum. We are talking about Waco, Texas, right?


Well there is SpaceX just south of Waco where they flight test their rocket engines before assembling them onto their Falcon rockets for launch. Every day in Waco you can hear the thunder of a Falcon rocket 90-120 seconds at a time.

L3 at TSTC does aircraft mods for airplanes - the engineers that work there can't say who the airplanes belong to but they're working on large private airliners 747/737 sized but the military contracts are winding down.

There is the Chip and Joanna craze going on that causes the perpetual traffic jam in downtown Waco and the church next door is making out like bandits selling parking spaces at $10/parking spot.

The problem with Waco is that DFW is just 1:45 away. If you took the time to drive to the Waco airport, wait to go through security, and then board the flight to DFW, if you had just kept going to DFW instead of the ACT airport, you beat the plane from ACT. That is if the plane actually goes - ACT is usually one of the first flights to cancel coming from DFW if DFW goes irregular. The ACT station manager goes ape-crazy on the managers in DFW that decide to cancel her flights.

The speed limit on the I-35 to Fort Worth and DFW is 75- so usually you can set your cruise control to 80-85 all the way to Fort Worth and Dallas and not have too much interference with the state police, so driving is faster than flying when you factor in all of the extra waiting.

Austin is just 1:30 away - and the speed limit is 80 (once you get past the mess in Temple/Belton) - so you can set your cruise control even faster to 85-90 - but my car doesn't do so well doing 90 on cruise control.

Once you're in the plane and take-off, the flight from DFW to ACT is just 12 minutes. But the taxi from the gate in DFW to takeoff is around 10 minutes, so taxi time is just as long as the flight to ACT. Flying from ACT to DFW, the flight time is longer around 25-27 minutes because they just can't fly direct to DFW - they have to fly to JEN/BOOVE and join all of the other arrivals get slowed down, etc.

So in short - its' just better to drive to Austin or DFW to fly and skip the crappy Envoy/ExpressJet/Mesa/Skywest service to ACT.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3347
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:46 pm

Woodreau wrote:
william wrote:
Thank you, this is the Waco I know. All of this talk of increasing flights for Waco was throwing me off. Outside of Baylor what is there at Waco, and please do not the Dr. Pepper Museum. We are talking about Waco, Texas, right?


Well there is SpaceX just south of Waco where they flight test their rocket engines before assembling them onto their Falcon rockets for launch. Every day in Waco you can hear the thunder of a Falcon rocket 90-120 seconds at a time.

L3 at TSTC does aircraft mods for airplanes - the engineers that work there can't say who the airplanes belong to but they're working on large private airliners 747/737 sized but the military contracts are winding down.

There is the Chip and Joanna craze going on that causes the perpetual traffic jam in downtown Waco and the church next door is making out like bandits selling parking spaces at $10/parking spot.

The problem with Waco is that DFW is just 1:45 away. If you took the time to drive to the Waco airport, wait to go through security, and then board the flight to DFW, if you had just kept going to DFW instead of the ACT airport, you beat the plane from ACT. That is if the plane actually goes - ACT is usually one of the first flights to cancel coming from DFW if DFW goes irregular. The ACT station manager goes ape-crazy on the managers in DFW that decide to cancel her flights.

The speed limit on the I-35 to Fort Worth and DFW is 75- so usually you can set your cruise control to 80-85 all the way to Fort Worth and Dallas and not have too much interference with the state police, so driving is faster than flying when you factor in all of the extra waiting.

Austin is just 1:30 away - and the speed limit is 80 (once you get past the mess in Temple/Belton) - so you can set your cruise control even faster to 85-90 - but my car doesn't do so well doing 90 on cruise control.

Once you're in the plane and take-off, the flight from DFW to ACT is just 12 minutes. But the taxi from the gate in DFW to takeoff is around 10 minutes, so taxi time is just as long as the flight to ACT. Flying from ACT to DFW, the flight time is longer around 25-27 minutes because they just can't fly direct to DFW - they have to fly to JEN/BOOVE and join all of the other arrivals get slowed down, etc.

So in short - its' just better to drive to Austin or DFW to fly and skip the crappy Envoy/ExpressJet/Mesa/Skywest service to ACT.


As a fellow Texan very nice summation of the Waco and Central Texas area.

1. The Temple/Belton construction should be done by the end of the year.
2. That's so wrong that Waco suffers when an aircraft goes tech at DFW, but understandable.
3. Flight times too and from GRK are the same as you stated from ACT. DFW-GRK once wheels up, 15 minutes to go 150 or so miles. So ACT DFW flights fly out of the way to Stephenville too before turning toward Ft.Worth, interesting.
4.TSTC, when it was TSTI back in the 80s used to have TWA and other airlines 707s out on the tarmac. Had a field trip there, and it was cool to walk among 707s and DC8s.
5. Watch out for that speed trap on I-35E at Italy, Texas.
 
wntex
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:54 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:34 pm

Woodreau wrote:
william wrote:
Thank you, this is the Waco I know. All of this talk of increasing flights for Waco was throwing me off. Outside of Baylor what is there at Waco, and please do not the Dr. Pepper Museum. We are talking about Waco, Texas, right?


Well there is SpaceX just south of Waco where they flight test their rocket engines before assembling them onto their Falcon rockets for launch. Every day in Waco you can hear the thunder of a Falcon rocket 90-120 seconds at a time.

L3 at TSTC does aircraft mods for airplanes - the engineers that work there can't say who the airplanes belong to but they're working on large private airliners 747/737 sized but the military contracts are winding down.

There is the Chip and Joanna craze going on that causes the perpetual traffic jam in downtown Waco and the church next door is making out like bandits selling parking spaces at $10/parking spot.

The problem with Waco is that DFW is just 1:45 away. If you took the time to drive to the Waco airport, wait to go through security, and then board the flight to DFW, if you had just kept going to DFW instead of the ACT airport, you beat the plane from ACT. That is if the plane actually goes - ACT is usually one of the first flights to cancel coming from DFW if DFW goes irregular. The ACT station manager goes ape-crazy on the managers in DFW that decide to cancel her flights.

The speed limit on the I-35 to Fort Worth and DFW is 75- so usually you can set your cruise control to 80-85 all the way to Fort Worth and Dallas and not have too much interference with the state police, so driving is faster than flying when you factor in all of the extra waiting.

Austin is just 1:30 away - and the speed limit is 80 (once you get past the mess in Temple/Belton) - so you can set your cruise control even faster to 85-90 - but my car doesn't do so well doing 90 on cruise control.

Once you're in the plane and take-off, the flight from DFW to ACT is just 12 minutes. But the taxi from the gate in DFW to takeoff is around 10 minutes, so taxi time is just as long as the flight to ACT. Flying from ACT to DFW, the flight time is longer around 25-27 minutes because they just can't fly direct to DFW - they have to fly to JEN/BOOVE and join all of the other arrivals get slowed down, etc.

So in short - its' just better to drive to Austin or DFW to fly and skip the crappy Envoy/ExpressJet/Mesa/Skywest service to ACT.


You can add...

Caterpillar has a large operation...Mars has it's North American headquarters in Waco...several other corporations have sizable distribution centers here...several insurance companies...the list can go on.

BUT, like others have said, the most I can see starting up (again) is UA to IAH. And MAYBE, just maybe, seasonal weekend flights on Allegiant. I had even heard at one time that Allegiant did consider ACT but decided against it.

The big perk of living smack in the middle of the Metroplex and AUS is the ability to shop multiple airlines between the two and then drive 1.5 hours or so to make it happen.
"The chief cause of failure and unhappiness is trading what you want most for what you want now." -Zig Ziglar
 
JDawgboy512
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: Potential of Waco

Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:35 pm

I think this is more of an in the future question rather than near term. I'm thinking decades into the future. Waco's airport will eventually grow with more flights and new carriers as the city and surrounding areas grow but it will be awhile.
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:54 pm

If UA wants IAH to be anything domestically, it needs to control the hinterlands (aka Texas/ Louisiana).
Waco, San Angelo, Wichita Falls, Tallahassee, and Montgomery would seem great regional adds for UA at IAH to boost its domestic connecting traffic.
UA DL LH NW AA WN - Hope I don't have to leave WY for a while
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3884
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Potential of Waco

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:16 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
To add on to this, exactly which airport Ryanair fly to is almost 100mi away from the city it's suppose to served? For all the talk about how far BVA is, it's still "only" 60mi from Central Paris. (SWF is ~75mi from NYC. But NYC airports are a LOT more congested than DFW or AUS)


Maybe not "supposed to serve" as it doesn't carry the name, but Eindhoven is about that distance from Amsterdam and it's the main airport for Ryanair and Wizzair in the Netherlands. There's a bus connection between Eindhoven airport and Amsterdam that's bookable through both airlines and a good deal of all passengers using Eindhoven actually go to Amsterdam. Compare that to EasyJet who has their main Dutch base at Amsterdam, but is always more expensive than Ryanair out of Eindhoven. Often so much more expensive that even with the Eindhoven - Amsterdam bus added to the ticket price Ryanair from Eindhoven is still cheaper. On top of that Ryanair also captures a lot of local demand from Eindhoven and surroundings, where Easyjet at Amsterdam doesn't capture any demand other than from Amsterdam and surroundings. Nobody from Eindhoven goes all the way to Amsterdam to fly EasyJet.


No one from DFW or AUS is going to go to ACT for a flight to NYC unless it is like $20 RT at which point the airline is not making any money. As the Skybus debacle and the ongoing struggles at Norwegian demonstrate the European alternate airport model does not really translate to the US well. Most primary US airports do not have the cost and congestion issues that their European peers nor do the secondary airports have the ability to make special deals like Euro airports do - so it is difficult to undercut the.primary airports.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos