Press release:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/actua ... -avec-joon
Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
From 18 June 2018, Air France will transfer its Paris-CDG – Mumbai service to Joon. Operated daily by Airbus A340.
Press release:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/actua ... -avec-joon
Press release:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/actua ... -avec-joon
mercure f-wtcc
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
That’s a shocker - BOM must be low-yielding for them, no? It’s sort of a dangerous road they’re on though - what’s next, JFK goes JOON? What’s to stop them from turning everything over to JOON over time and then renaming it France Air?
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- davidjohnson6
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
obelau - I think that is exactly what the shareholder and senior management would like to do with Air France / Joon !
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- crosswinds21
- Posts: 169
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
obelau24 wrote:That’s a shocker - BOM must be low-yielding for them, no? It’s sort of a dangerous road they’re on though - what’s next, JFK goes JOON? What’s to stop them from turning everything over to JOON over time and then renaming it France Air?
I doubt it. Clearly this change because there must be a lot of young millennials flying that route that Joon is hoping to attract.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
I flew AF to DEL recently. I must say I was a bit surpised that Business Class is the most premium cabin they offer to India. I would have imagined that in such a large market, F would be offered. Moreover, I was also a bit disappointed that both the A332s and 77Ws that AF flies to DEL still use the old non-true lie flat seats in J (2-2-2 in the A332 and 2-3-2 in the 77W). I believe this is the product they have been using to BOM up until now as well.
Based on that experience and this announcement, I assume India poses a challenge to AF in terms of selling high-margin premium seats. Hope this decision is not mistaken. I wonder if this might create an incentive for O&D pax to choose Jet Airways instead, or for connecting passengers to prefer Jet or altogether connecting at AMS.
Based on that experience and this announcement, I assume India poses a challenge to AF in terms of selling high-margin premium seats. Hope this decision is not mistaken. I wonder if this might create an incentive for O&D pax to choose Jet Airways instead, or for connecting passengers to prefer Jet or altogether connecting at AMS.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
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- upwardfacing
- Posts: 423
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
EddieDude wrote:I assume India poses a challenge to AF in terms of selling high-margin premium seats.
I believe this has been true for decades. Actually, there is a market for those premium seats, but LH and BA are the top choices among the Western European carriers. In addition Emirates is very popular. (Yes, even J and F flyers will fly via Dubai for a lower fare, or because they like the product.)
Even with the partnership with Jet Airways the AF-KLM service offering remains oddly limited from a schedule choice and seat capacity standpoint. You must have noticed that connecting from MEX required an overnight stay, for example.
The popular belief is that everyone is connecting across the North Atlantic but that's a myth--more like 50%. Note that the AF (soon-to-be Joon) and Jet Airways CDG-BOM services literally operate within minutes of each other. Maybe this is why there are switching to Joon, to attract those wealthy young Indian millenials for their Paris adventures.
Meanwhile Jet can handle the full-service crowd.
There is also a new 3x weekly KLM service AMS-BOM with a rather subpar neither-here-nor-there schedule.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
obelau24 wrote:That’s a shocker - BOM must be low-yielding for them, no? It’s sort of a dangerous road they’re on though - what’s next, JFK goes JOON? What’s to stop them from turning everything over to JOON over time and then renaming it France Air?
davidjohnson6 wrote:obelau - I think that is exactly what the shareholder and senior management would like to do with Air France / Joon !
Unbelievable, a major international airline is basically held hostage by employees that think its 1971. AF and AZ need to go...
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Instead of retiming the flight to avoid going head to head 9W, they replace it with Joon.
Go figure. And people wonder why AF has problems.
Go figure. And people wonder why AF has problems.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
While India is a European party destination, Joon would be the carrier I would expect to Goa, not one of the world's most important cities. Then again, AF has a pretty bad reputation where I live for getting people to India so maybe they are just trying to change things up and fix that.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
neomax wrote:Instead of retiming the flight to avoid going head to head 9W, they replace it with Joon.
Go figure. And people wonder why AF has problems.
1) If its a JV, they aren't going "head to head" with 9W
2) Maybe Joon will be more profitable / less unprofitable? Please provide us with evidence to the contrary other than your unsubstantiated conjecture.
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- MaverickM11
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Couldn’t they put a COI 777 instead? This is just embarrassing
I don't take responsibility at all
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Air France is not a popular airline in India, CDG is not popular transfer airport. But still this a shocker. What is surprising is 9W has a new service from MAA /BLR to CDG, which are less premium destinations than BOM
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- MaverickM11
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
neomax wrote:Instead of retiming the flight to avoid going head to head 9W, they replace it with Joon.
Go figure. And people wonder why AF has problems.
The flight is optimized for the AF network—why would they retime it?
I don't take responsibility at all
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- upwardfacing
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
There is a 9W service that operates at nearly identical times in both directions. That 9W flight actually ran a few years with BOM daylight departures and arrivals, but was shifted more recently.
Maybe Joon wants to attract the young hip rich millennial crowd that will Instagram their way around Paris.
Maybe Joon wants to attract the young hip rich millennial crowd that will Instagram their way around Paris.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Joon longhaul fleet will grow from initial 4 frames to 10 per approved union agreements, so they will obviously pick up additional markets be they existing AF routes or all new ones.
mercure f-wtcc
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
This is indeed a shocker, do u think JOON may replace AF services to Indian sectors or maybe BLR in the near future?
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- CaliguyNYC
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Does the Joon A343 have lie flat or the old angle flat J clas? AF was operating CDG-BOM with their new J class on the 777 for a good length of time. My guess is AF turned BOM into a Joon flight because 9W also flies this route. I think from a JV perspective, 9W is probably capping the costs AF can bill to what 9W bills. So AF has to bring costs down. Premium pax can fly 9W CDG-BOM. That said, I really don't see much difference between Joon and AF in J (do other people)? In fact some of their "innovations" are probably more India friendly (and maybe they can even have two Indian staff aboard that speak Hindi). Right now AF's service to BOM can be VERY French (in food and customer service). I hope the Joon change is a prelude to AF chasing the times of their flight. You don't need two flights at the exact same time.
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- studentdrbev
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
If JOON doesn't live upto the hype, then it would definitely tarnish Air France's reputation. So I'm sure AF is in charted waters.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Surprising BOM went to Joon before BLR. Also IIRC LH operates the B748 to BLR but the B744 to BOM. Even though BLR is still a smaller market from EU, is it believable that BLR is higher-yielding than BOM in general these days?
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
AF 343 has the angle flat seats, perhaps the hipsters prefer the funky sleeping angles 
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
If Air France use an aircraft with an older business class and don't offer a first class product, does this mean that CDG-BOM is really a route they make much money from? At least in business class.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Wouldn’t Bangalore/Bengalaru Ben more “millennial”? Smh...they really should’ve just done a LH Jump-style operation.
-Andrés Juánez
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
studentdrbev wrote:If JOON doesn't live upto the hype, then it would definitely tarnish Air France's reputation. So I'm sure AF is in charted waters.
There is no hype. If JOON does exactly what AF does, they make significant cost savings because of cheaper cabin staff.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Irehdna wrote:Surprising BOM went to Joon before BLR. Also IIRC LH operates the B748 to BLR but the B744 to BOM. Even though BLR is still a smaller market from EU, is it believable that BLR is higher-yielding than BOM in general these days?
Would not be surprised if BLR is higher-yielding. There is virtually no tourist traffic to BLR. There may be some VFR traffic but would be limited as well. What is really filling the flights are business traffic. While many places in India has technology centers, Bangalore is still the largest one. While most of those technology or outsourcing people in Bangalore don't need to travel, the "subject matter experts", the "senior developers" or the senior managers are still traveling a lot to work with local teams across the world or even to visit clients. And people from across the world would need to go there to visit their development teams or outsourcing service teams from time to time as well. Many of those travel would be on business class, and they are often last-minute.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
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- FlyingHamster33
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
BA has been doing this for years now, (with more and more routes going to the cheaper Mixed Fleet crews), except they kept the brand's name and look (livery and uniform).
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Well they should Slash the ticket prices by at least $200 if they are using a low cost product.
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Irehdna wrote:Surprising BOM went to Joon before BLR. Also IIRC LH operates the B748 to BLR but the B744 to BOM. Even though BLR is still a smaller market from EU, is it believable that BLR is higher-yielding than BOM in general these days?
Excuse me??? LH operates a 748 to Mumbai. Both the cities are equally high yielding. The difference is the demand which is more in BOM as evident.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
Well I have said the same thing in another thread also. AF is using the low cost product not because of low yield. The reason is 2 airlines AF and 9W operate BOM CDG at the same time. If there had been so much demand for this route at that time of the day to fill two wide bodies then AF would have sent its A380 to Mumbai.
AF might return to Mumbai once the navi Mumbai airport is ready but that would have a different timing than 9W's flight
AF might return to Mumbai once the navi Mumbai airport is ready but that would have a different timing than 9W's flight
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
binayak wrote:Excuse me??? LH operates a 748 to Mumbai. Both the cities are equally high yielding. The difference is the demand which is more in BOM as evident.
LH is operating the 748 during the winter months. Last summer they used the 744 to fly the route. I agree BOM has higher demand than BLR and that is why LH was looking at flying the A380 to BOM.
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- JOYA380B747
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
binayak wrote:Excuse me??? LH operates a 748 to Mumbai. Both the cities are equally high yielding. The difference is the demand which is more in BOM as evident.
It is 74H only during the winter holiday season, now back to the 744s. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lh757
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
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- JOYA380B747
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
binayak wrote:Irehdna wrote:Surprising BOM went to Joon before BLR. Also IIRC LH operates the B748 to BLR but the B744 to BOM. Even though BLR is still a smaller market from EU, is it believable that BLR is higher-yielding than BOM in general these days?
Excuse me??? LH operates a 748 to Mumbai. Both the cities are equally high yielding. The difference is the demand which is more in BOM as evident.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
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- abrelosojos
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
AF has almost zero brand presence in India. Just Google AF and Indian service reviews. AF in itself is shoddy brand, and so good luck as it uses Joon. I think this venture will be Soon out of luck.
Saludos,
Alex
Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
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- AAvgeek744
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Re: Joon to take over Air France Mumbai service
obelau24 wrote:That’s a shocker - BOM must be low-yielding for them, no? It’s sort of a dangerous road they’re on though - what’s next, JFK goes JOON? What’s to stop them from turning everything over to JOON over time and then renaming it France Air?
Seems AF/KL management hasn't got a clue. AF has endured so many strikes, there's something wrong somewhere. I would love to see KL independent again. AF is dragging them down big time.
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