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DTWLAX
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AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:19 am

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/amer ... nance.html

Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:28 am

so on what routes? Norwegian doesn't fly into LHR from JFK and I am not sure what other routes a ULCC exists on that competes with AA over the Atlantic.

I just read another article on this and it said you can take one personal item and one carry-on for free. Plus if your flying a domestic leg to a international leg in basic econ then the international baggage rules apply. At least that's a plus.
 
IPFreely
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:56 am

DTWLAX wrote:
Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.


What do you mean "how it goes"? Basic Economy isn't a new section on the plane, it's just economy seats with even fewer perks included. Nobody has to buy it if they don't want it.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:27 am

DTWLAX wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/american-airlines-enters-low-cost-trans-atlantic-market-215931331--finance.html

Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.

I would assume it will go fine just like it has with Delta....

jumbojet wrote:
so on what routes? Norwegian doesn't fly into LHR from JFK and I am not sure what other routes a ULCC exists on that competes with AA over the Atlantic.

I just read another article on this and it said you can take one personal item and one carry-on for free. Plus if your flying a domestic leg to a international leg in basic econ then the international baggage rules apply. At least that's a plus.

Also like Delta, I would assume they will roll it out to the entire network.

Its not just about competing with ULCCs or LCCs.
 
airzona11
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:22 am

Wonder if any of the airlines will advertise lower prices as a result? Regardless of the feelings towards it, Basic Economy is the new baseline. Airlines are not dropping fares on basic economy. What was economy is now basic economy.
 
ahj2000
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:43 am

THe most interesting part is that bit about partners. I wonder how that will work
-Andrés Juánez
 
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stl07
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:51 am

IPFreely wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.

Nobody has to buy it if they don't want it.

And that would be just fine if they actually lowered the prices, but from my experience, the regular fare has just changed to basic and the regular was more expensive
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
brian415
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:25 am

DTWLAX wrote:
Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.

It seems unfair that AA will cause its partners, BA / AY / IB, with whom they codeshare, to be the gestapo at the gates to enforce another employer's policy. Europe-based passengers that buy these tickets may be less savvy than U.S.-based passengers, because unbundled/austerity pricing measures aren't in use by network carriers in Europe. Network carriers in Europe behave very distinctly from ULLCs and they haven't tried to blur the lines they way AA / UA / DL have. Instead European network carriers started using a "carrier-within-a-carrier"/"subsidiary-within-a-carrier" model that didn't work in the U.S. (Ted, Song, Continental Lite, etc.)
 
pdp
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:34 am

brian415 wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.

It seems unfair that AA will cause its partners, BA / AY / IB, with whom they codeshare, to be the gestapo at the gates to enforce another employer's policy. Europe-based passengers that buy these tickets may be less savvy than U.S.-based passengers, because unbundled/austerity pricing measures aren't in use by network carriers in Europe. Network carriers in Europe behave very distinctly from ULLCs and they haven't tried to blur the lines they way AA / UA / DL have. Instead European network carriers started using a "carrier-within-a-carrier"/"subsidiary-within-a-carrier" model that didn't work in the U.S. (Ted, Song, Continental Lite, etc.)


A lot of the airlines here actually do have a basic fare level. BAs is so basic that the only appreciable difference between it and Ryanair is the name on the side of the aircraft!
 
SCQ83
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:02 am

brian415 wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.

It seems unfair that AA will cause its partners, BA / AY / IB, with whom they codeshare, to be the gestapo at the gates to enforce another employer's policy. Europe-based passengers that buy these tickets may be less savvy than U.S.-based passengers, because unbundled/austerity pricing measures aren't in use by network carriers in Europe. Network carriers in Europe behave very distinctly from ULLCs and they haven't tried to blur the lines they way AA / UA / DL have. Instead European network carriers started using a "carrier-within-a-carrier"/"subsidiary-within-a-carrier" model that didn't work in the U.S. (Ted, Song, Continental Lite, etc.)


I have no doubt that BA and IB will implement this very soon. Finnair I would have more doubts without Norwegian flying long-haul from HEL.

Btw Air Europa now also offers "basic economy".

I bet in a couple of years all European/American majors will offer "basic economy" (no luggage, no food) fares TATL to compete with the Norwegian, LEVELs, WOW, Icelandair, Primera Air, etc of this world.
 
brian415
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:36 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I bet in a couple of years all European/American majors will offer "basic economy" (no luggage, no food) fares TATL to compete with the Norwegian, LEVELs, WOW, Icelandair, Primera Air, etc of this world.

The CEO of WOW air has stated publicly that he has a future goal of offering a $0 transatlantic base fare. For this class of passengers, and if this ever comes to fruition, he wants to offset it with ancillary revenues and still make a profit.
 
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seahawk
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:11 am

Basic economy will become standard economy and everything better will become premium economy.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:17 am

brian415 wrote:
It seems unfair that AA will cause its partners, BA / AY / IB, with whom they codeshare, to be the gestapo at the gates to enforce another employer's policy. Europe-based passengers that buy these tickets may be less savvy than U.S.-based passengers, because unbundled/austerity pricing measures aren't in use by network carriers in Europe. Network carriers in Europe behave very distinctly from ULLCs and they haven't tried to blur the lines they way AA / UA / DL have. Instead European network carriers started using a "carrier-within-a-carrier"/"subsidiary-within-a-carrier" model that didn't work in the U.S. (Ted, Song, Continental Lite, etc.)


That may have been true a decade ago, but not anymore. By now European legacy airlines are just as basic as their American counterparts.

Here's a news article (in Dutch) saying that British Airways will introduce basic economy on long haul flights to the USA. Passengers will get a lower ticket price, but will have to pay extra for checked luggage and seat selection. A meal will still be included.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... en-naar-vs

Personally I think the ticket price will remain more or less the same, only what once was included is now excluded. That's how it went when they introduced this on flights within Europe, and intercontinental will be no different.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:23 am

DTWLAX wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/american-airlines-enters-low-cost-trans-atlantic-market-215931331--finance.html

Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.



i wouldn't have it in my airline, or do i choose to use it. many seem to want it so what does it matter.
 
jomur
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:44 am

Its happening on all partner airlines operating the JV, So AA, BA, IB and Finnair
 
LupineChemist
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:10 pm

Do you still get status benefits? I'm OW emerald so this could be great if I can still get everything included (plus lounge access) regardless.
 
Jo8338
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:01 pm

They should make a section of the plane basic economy. 10 across on a 777 is it. Regular should be 9 across.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:14 pm

Jo8338 wrote:
They should make a section of the plane basic economy. 10 across on a 777 is it. Regular should be 9 across.


Problem with that is that for every flight you got a different number of basic economy and regular economy passengers, but you can't have a different number of basic/regular economy seats for every flight. If the flight is full and your number of basic economy bookings does not equal the number of basic economy seats, you got a problem.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:14 pm

So are they going to limit this to secondary routes or those where they compete directly with an LCC?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:14 pm

brian415 wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
Would love to see how this goes. I think this is taking basic economy a little too far.
The article also says the fares will be available on BA and other partners.

It seems unfair that AA will cause its partners, BA / AY / IB, with whom they codeshare, to be the gestapo at the gates to enforce another employer's policy.


Actually, it's a coordinated roll-out across AA, BA, IB and AY. It seems AA's European partners think there's some demand for it on TATL, too.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... satlantic/
 
jeffrey1970
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:51 pm

I guess Basic Economy must be doing good.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
Ziyulu
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:56 pm

3-4-3 on a 777 is already basic economy in my opinion.
 
axiom
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:14 pm

Terrible news for consumers. Contrary to all of the chest thumping about consumer choice, while ignoring the fantastic rise in corporate power that has enabled a historically exceptional transfer of wealth from working people to the richest, I contend that all this boils down to a mechanism to charge the consumer the same amount for less product. In the case of most AA economy products, this is already pretty atrocious.

(And yes, I am the type of consumer that does pay more for MCE on the 77W, even though my employer only books the cheapest fare. And what a heinously bad value it is. For those of us who are tall but otherwise ordinary in size, and who are among the 99%, there simply isn't a better option that allows us to actually fit into our seat. Now that MCE is going ten abreast, I simply won't fly this airline in Y.)
 
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Rookie87
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:59 pm

axiom wrote:
Terrible news for consumers. Contrary to all of the chest thumping about consumer choice, while ignoring the fantastic rise in corporate power that has enabled a historically exceptional transfer of wealth from working people to the richest, I contend that all this boils down to a mechanism to charge the consumer the same amount for less product. In the case of most AA economy products, this is already pretty atrocious.

(And yes, I am the type of consumer that does pay more for MCE on the 77W, even though my employer only books the cheapest fare. And what a heinously bad value it is. For those of us who are tall but otherwise ordinary in size, and who are among the 99%, there simply isn't a better option that allows us to actually fit into our seat. Now that MCE is going ten abreast, I simply won't fly this airline in Y.)



I don’t understand what you wrote.
It makes me think that you assume that WOW air, Icelandair, Norwegian air fares are in line with the legacies. The legacies are introducing a fare class without perks as close to what the LCCs offer to get the LCC customers to fly them instead of those LCCs. If you or anyone finds the ticket too expensive, then the LCCs are there waiting for you with open arms.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:41 pm

The problem at least so far is that all the third party travel sites like Priceline and Orbitz don't distinguish between economy and basic economy. I have used them in the past to put together itineraries that cross different airline alliances and are impossible to piece together on the airlines' websites. I can't imagine wanting to fly transatlantic in basic economy. Having to be careful to not accidentally book basic economy is a pain.
 
axiom
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:56 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
axiom wrote:
Terrible news for consumers. Contrary to all of the chest thumping about consumer choice, while ignoring the fantastic rise in corporate power that has enabled a historically exceptional transfer of wealth from working people to the richest, I contend that all this boils down to a mechanism to charge the consumer the same amount for less product. In the case of most AA economy products, this is already pretty atrocious.

(And yes, I am the type of consumer that does pay more for MCE on the 77W, even though my employer only books the cheapest fare. And what a heinously bad value it is. For those of us who are tall but otherwise ordinary in size, and who are among the 99%, there simply isn't a better option that allows us to actually fit into our seat. Now that MCE is going ten abreast, I simply won't fly this airline in Y.)



I don’t understand what you wrote.
It makes me think that you assume that WOW air, Icelandair, Norwegian air fares are in line with the legacies. The legacies are introducing a fare class without perks as close to what the LCCs offer to get the LCC customers to fly them instead of those LCCs. If you or anyone finds the ticket too expensive, then the LCCs are there waiting for you with open arms.


What does my post have to do with LCCs? I wrote that I was content to pay - and to pay more - for a solid product. Contrary to the argument that this is about consumer choice, all I see are massive corporations charging more for less.
 
incitatus
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:25 pm

axiom wrote:
Terrible news for consumers. Contrary to all of the chest thumping about consumer choice, while ignoring the fantastic rise in corporate power that has enabled a historically exceptional transfer of wealth from working people to the richest, I contend that all this boils down to a mechanism to charge the consumer the same amount for less product. In the case of most AA economy products, this is already pretty atrocious.


OMG! Where did you copy that from? It sounds like a communist vendetta.

First, if you look at the long term trend of fares, traveling has been, for decades, becoming cheaper. It is a race to the lowest cost to stay in business. Let's just play along and say basic economy is some sort of trick. Then by all means airlines need tricks to continue viable.

Second, look at other sectors of the economy that are consistently profitable. Look at their "tricks". How about health care, drug pricing? Those tricks make airlines look like beginners. Imagine coming into the airplane and being told they will send you a bill after you land. That is what hospitals do!
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
michman
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:55 pm

LCC/ULCC's have been growing at 10-20% annually, while the legacies are in the low single digits. That growth is now occurring on both domestic and international markets (did you all miss the route additions from the likes of WOW, Iceland, and Norwegian these last few years?). The legacies had a nice run, but I don't think it will last much longer. There's still a place for them, but they will have an increasingly smaller marketshare and profit margins. These things take time as you just can't snap your fingers and make 100 planes appear along with the pilots to fly them. An attempt at a market intervention at this point will likely have it's own set of unintended consequences. The market is correcting as it usually does even if the timescale isn't as quick as some would like.
 
coolian2
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:07 pm

axiom wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
axiom wrote:
Terrible news for consumers. Contrary to all of the chest thumping about consumer choice, while ignoring the fantastic rise in corporate power that has enabled a historically exceptional transfer of wealth from working people to the richest, I contend that all this boils down to a mechanism to charge the consumer the same amount for less product. In the case of most AA economy products, this is already pretty atrocious.

(And yes, I am the type of consumer that does pay more for MCE on the 77W, even though my employer only books the cheapest fare. And what a heinously bad value it is. For those of us who are tall but otherwise ordinary in size, and who are among the 99%, there simply isn't a better option that allows us to actually fit into our seat. Now that MCE is going ten abreast, I simply won't fly this airline in Y.)



I don’t understand what you wrote.
It makes me think that you assume that WOW air, Icelandair, Norwegian air fares are in line with the legacies. The legacies are introducing a fare class without perks as close to what the LCCs offer to get the LCC customers to fly them instead of those LCCs. If you or anyone finds the ticket too expensive, then the LCCs are there waiting for you with open arms.


What does my post have to do with LCCs? I wrote that I was content to pay - and to pay more - for a solid product. Contrary to the argument that this is about consumer choice, all I see are massive corporations charging more for less.


It's effectively the same as the companies that make a big fuss about BRAND NEW PACKAGING only for you to notice the product costs the same but they've shaved off some of the net weight.
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
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spinkid
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:24 pm

For me, it all depends on the booking process. Orbitz and Expedia, etc don't distinguish what you are actually getting with the fare you are browsing.
At least with LCC and ULCC carriers they state very clearly what you get and how much extra all the add ons cost. I haven't tried booking directly with a legacy lately to see what its like. Perhaps I'll go experiment!
 
Aliqiout
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:59 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The problem at least so far is that all the third party travel sites like Priceline and Orbitz don't distinguish between economy and basic economy. I have used them in the past to put together itineraries that cross different airline alliances and are impossible to piece together on the airlines' websites. I can't imagine wanting to fly transatlantic in basic economy. Having to be careful to not accidentally book basic economy is a pain.

I agree this is a problem, hopefully it will be fixed soon, but I don't think it is a problem if you are shopping for interline tickets. Unless I am mistaken domestic basic econmy fares don't allow end-on-end combinations. I assume that the same will be true transatlantic, so any fares like this that show up on OTAs should exclude basic economy.
 
axiom
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:03 pm

incitatus wrote:
axiom wrote:
Terrible news for consumers. Contrary to all of the chest thumping about consumer choice, while ignoring the fantastic rise in corporate power that has enabled a historically exceptional transfer of wealth from working people to the richest, I contend that all this boils down to a mechanism to charge the consumer the same amount for less product. In the case of most AA economy products, this is already pretty atrocious.


OMG! Where did you copy that from? It sounds like a communist vendetta.

First, if you look at the long term trend of fares, traveling has been, for decades, becoming cheaper. It is a race to the lowest cost to stay in business. Let's just play along and say basic economy is some sort of trick. Then by all means airlines need tricks to continue viable.

Second, look at other sectors of the economy that are consistently profitable. Look at their "tricks". How about health care, drug pricing? Those tricks make airlines look like beginners. Imagine coming into the airplane and being told they will send you a bill after you land. That is what hospitals do!


A communist vendetta? Compared to what, the diaries of Von Hayek that (unconsciously) cited here after other post? I'd like to think it's a perspective rooted in the material realities and concerns of ordinary working people.

I don't find the "but other industries are worse" argument particularly compelling. Especially not with regards to healthcare. Indeed, in some ways both healthcare and air transport are more like public goods than they are true private enterprises, and perhaps they ought to be managed that way, rather than at the mercy of the quarterly shareholder's dividend... radical thought, radical thought.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:13 pm

Yaaaaay...scamming customers on an international scale! Way to go AA!!!
 
steeler83
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:31 pm

I'd rather fly in the cargo hold... Or FedEx... I did basic economy once. You learn from your mistakes and move on.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
incitatus
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:33 pm

axiom wrote:
(...)

I don't find the "but other industries are worse" argument particularly compelling. Especially not with regards to healthcare. Indeed, in some ways both healthcare and air transport are more like public goods than they are true private enterprises, and perhaps they ought to be managed that way, rather than at the mercy of the quarterly shareholder's dividend... radical thought, radical thought.


Transportation between US and Europe as a "public good"? How do you think government would manage air transportation as a public good? Better than private companies? Cheaper? More plenty? They still have to break even because public money should not subsidize someone's travel. The vast majority of governments around the world are terrible at managing corporations. Even at managing themselves - just look at Trump pitching his personal pilot as head of the FAA. I am confident we are better off with a competitive industry. People like yourself who do not like the idea of basic economy can always buy premium economy or business class on at least a couple dozen airlines between the two continents.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
michman
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:54 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The problem at least so far is that all the third party travel sites like Priceline and Orbitz don't distinguish between economy and basic economy. I have used them in the past to put together itineraries that cross different airline alliances and are impossible to piece together on the airlines' websites. I can't imagine wanting to fly transatlantic in basic economy. Having to be careful to not accidentally book basic economy is a pain.


This is simply not true. Have you used Priceline and Orbitz recently? While they don't let you specify main cabin in the search, they definitely show whether or not the fare is a Basic Economy fare in the results and allow you to upfare to main cabin if you desire.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:06 pm

Wonder if the prices will actually go down, or if the lowest fare now becomes BE.

AA is offering BOS-CDG for $430 on regular economy. I doubt they drop this even lower as a BE fare.
@DadCelo
 
axiom
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:28 pm

incitatus wrote:
axiom wrote:
(...)

I don't find the "but other industries are worse" argument particularly compelling. Especially not with regards to healthcare. Indeed, in some ways both healthcare and air transport are more like public goods than they are true private enterprises, and perhaps they ought to be managed that way, rather than at the mercy of the quarterly shareholder's dividend... radical thought, radical thought.


Transportation between US and Europe as a "public good"? How do you think government would manage air transportation as a public good? Better than private companies? Cheaper? More plenty? They still have to break even because public money should not subsidize someone's travel. The vast majority of governments around the world are terrible at managing corporations. Even at managing themselves - just look at Trump pitching his personal pilot as head of the FAA. I am confident we are better off with a competitive industry. People like yourself who do not like the idea of basic economy can always buy premium economy or business class on at least a couple dozen airlines between the two continents.



Public money should not subsidize someone's travel? I take it you do not drive on roads, then?

Transportation systems enable economies. They are utilities in many respects. Transportation is not a true economic good, which should be apparent to anyone who studies the market.

You keep reducing this to "price," but that wasn't really what my point was or is now. I can and do pay for premium economy when I can, and I avoid carriers that I believe are eroding the basic dignity of economy travel, to the extent that I can. But this isn't about consumer choice, at least not entirely.
 
T1a
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:36 pm

Problem with that is that for every flight you got a different number of basic economy and regular economy passengers, but you can't have a different number of basic/regular economy seats for every flight. If the flight is full and your number of basic economy bookings does not equal the number of basic economy seats, you got a problem.


While that is true, I think it's only a matter of time until airlines will start using move-able cabin dividers (MDCs) to divide basic economy from regular economy on long-haul flights. Airlines in Europe have been using them for decades to divide Business and Eco on their European routes. That way you would still have the same seat in Y and Y-, but you could introduce a different cabin service, with Y still getting food and drinks, while Y- is all buy on board. The airline can then adjust the divider for every flight as needed according to the booking situation.
I don't look forward to this, but it certainly is the direction we're headed.
The most important thing for me would be that some kind of international ICAO/IATA legislation is passed that requires airlines to display the seat size/pitch and complementary products they're offering, so this can be displayed and compared on booking sites in a way the regular flyer understands.
All views expressed under this username are mine as a private person and don't necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
 
Varsity1
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:41 pm

T1a wrote:
Problem with that is that for every flight you got a different number of basic economy and regular economy passengers, but you can't have a different number of basic/regular economy seats for every flight. If the flight is full and your number of basic economy bookings does not equal the number of basic economy seats, you got a problem.


While that is true, I think it's only a matter of time until airlines will start using move-able cabin dividers (MDCs) to divide basic economy from regular economy on long-haul flights. Airlines in Europe have been using them for decades to divide Business and Eco on their European routes. That way you would still have the same seat in Y and Y-, but you could introduce a different cabin service, with Y still getting food and drinks, while Y- is all buy on board. The airline can then adjust the divider for every flight as needed according to the booking situation.
I don't look forward to this, but it certainly is the direction we're headed.
The most important thing for me would be that some kind of international ICAO/IATA legislation is passed that requires airlines to display the seat size/pitch and complementary products they're offering, so this can be displayed and compared on booking sites in a way the regular flyer understands.



IATA is the "bro club" of airlines. They aren't going to push anything unpopular with the carriers.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:52 pm

michman wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The problem at least so far is that all the third party travel sites like Priceline and Orbitz don't distinguish between economy and basic economy. I have used them in the past to put together itineraries that cross different airline alliances and are impossible to piece together on the airlines' websites. I can't imagine wanting to fly transatlantic in basic economy. Having to be careful to not accidentally book basic economy is a pain.


This is simply not true. Have you used Priceline and Orbitz recently? While they don't let you specify main cabin in the search, they definitely show whether or not the fare is a Basic Economy fare in the results and allow you to upfare to main cabin if you desire.


There is no box to check to only show economy fares rather than a mix of economy and basic economy. That means one has to be extra careful about buying airline tickets through them now. The basic economy fares get listed first, because they are lower even though they aren't what I want. You say that you can upgrade to the main cabin, but that fare doesn't show in the search sorted by price. That sounds like a bait and switch. If I wanted a basic economy fare, I would specify it explicitly.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:20 pm

T1a wrote:
Problem with that is that for every flight you got a different number of basic economy and regular economy passengers, but you can't have a different number of basic/regular economy seats for every flight. If the flight is full and your number of basic economy bookings does not equal the number of basic economy seats, you got a problem.


While that is true, I think it's only a matter of time until airlines will start using move-able cabin dividers (MDCs) to divide basic economy from regular economy on long-haul flights. Airlines in Europe have been using them for decades to divide Business and Eco on their European routes. That way you would still have the same seat in Y and Y-, but you could introduce a different cabin service, with Y still getting food and drinks, while Y- is all buy on board. The airline can then adjust the divider for every flight as needed according to the booking situation.
I don't look forward to this, but it certainly is the direction we're headed.
The most important thing for me would be that some kind of international ICAO/IATA legislation is passed that requires airlines to display the seat size/pitch and complementary products they're offering, so this can be displayed and compared on booking sites in a way the regular flyer understands.


Except that United won't do this. They want to distribute basic economy amongst all the economy seats. They are pretty much guaranteed to fill up the middle seats that are between two passengers who are not traveling together. Also since they have no access to overhead bins, they give more space to regular economy passengers near their seats. If basic economy passengers are clumped together, the unused overhead bins space will be clustered in the back of the plane.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:30 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Wonder if the prices will actually go down, or if the lowest fare now becomes BE.

AA is offering BOS-CDG for $430 on regular economy. I doubt they drop this even lower as a BE fare.

They won't and that's the scam...they've tried to market this as a price savings, when in fact it's nothing more than a fare INCREASE.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:21 am

axiom wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
axiom wrote:
Terrible news for consumers. Contrary to all of the chest thumping about consumer choice, while ignoring the fantastic rise in corporate power that has enabled a historically exceptional transfer of wealth from working people to the richest, I contend that all this boils down to a mechanism to charge the consumer the same amount for less product. In the case of most AA economy products, this is already pretty atrocious.

(And yes, I am the type of consumer that does pay more for MCE on the 77W, even though my employer only books the cheapest fare. And what a heinously bad value it is. For those of us who are tall but otherwise ordinary in size, and who are among the 99%, there simply isn't a better option that allows us to actually fit into our seat. Now that MCE is going ten abreast, I simply won't fly this airline in Y.)



I don’t understand what you wrote.
It makes me think that you assume that WOW air, Icelandair, Norwegian air fares are in line with the legacies. The legacies are introducing a fare class without perks as close to what the LCCs offer to get the LCC customers to fly them instead of those LCCs. If you or anyone finds the ticket too expensive, then the LCCs are there waiting for you with open arms.


What does my post have to do with LCCs? I wrote that I was content to pay - and to pay more - for a solid product. Contrary to the argument that this is about consumer choice, all I see are massive corporations charging more for less.


The WHOLE subject is because of LCCs and why bother flying on the legacies by buying a cheaper basic economy IF it isn’t as cheap as what you’d want it to be? It’s like complaining that the sale is 20% when you think it SHOULD have been 60%. But the sale stays the same and you forget that there are other products available and other stores.
 
incitatus
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:47 am

axiom wrote:
Public money should not subsidize someone's travel? I take it you do not drive on roads, then?

Transportation systems enable economies. They are utilities in many respects. Transportation is not a true economic good, which should be apparent to anyone who studies the market.

You keep reducing this to "price," but that wasn't really what my point was or is now. I can and do pay for premium economy when I can, and I avoid carriers that I believe are eroding the basic dignity of economy travel, to the extent that I can. But this isn't about consumer choice, at least not entirely.


Have you "studied the market"? If so I would love to be enlightened with your wisdom. Evidently in the age of discretionary air travel, I need to understand how it is not a "true economic good".

Public money should not subsidize someone's air travel. Roads a different story because it is too inefficient to have competing private road networks - people should pay for road usage with a combination of tolls and taxation. The private sector can in many cases do a better job of maintaining roads than governments.

You appreciate the fact you have a choice in air travel, If transportation was managed as a "public good", like you advocate, we would have less choice.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
TSS
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Re: AA expands basic economy to transatlantic flights

Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:04 am

axiom wrote:
Public money should not subsidize someone's travel? I take it you do not drive on roads, then?


Public money does build the roads, true, but how much you enjoy traveling on those roads depends entirely on how much you want to spend on a personal conveyance: Do you want a bare-bones, base-price-justifying subcompact with no A/C, no radio, and no power anything that will nonetheless get you where you want to go, or do you want to travel in something equipped with a few more amenities that costs more but will almost certainly make the travel time more pleasant overall?
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