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cle757
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United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:41 pm

For some reason my post was removed, but UA has announced that they are taking away employee bonuses for on-time,baggage perfomance and other operational goals. They are replacing it with a lottery system that only a fraction of employees will receive. Along with reduced profit sharing, this has caused a huge morale dive among employees system wide.
Last edited by qf789 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: misleading title
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LAXintl
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:50 pm

Actually, instead of just handing you a $100 bonus per month for meeting DOT measures, UA has revised measure around its core4 program (be safe, caring, dependable and efficient), and will include other internal measures including customer satisfaction and employee attendance.

Up to 5,000 employees will now earn more meaningful prizes, be it a car, vacation package or even $100,000 cash! In many ways this goes back to the CO way of awarding employees cars.
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United1
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:50 pm

cle757 wrote:
For some reason my post was removed, but UA has announced that they are taking away employee bonuses for on-time,baggage perfomance and other operational goals. They are replacing it with a lottery system that only a fraction of employees will receive. Along with reduced profit sharing, this has caused a huge morale dive among employees system wide.


...it was probably removed because it is factually wrong.

See LAX's post for what UA is actually doing.
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WIederling
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:08 pm

"...it was probably removed because it is factually wrong."

both screeds reduce to the same facts.

one is in
workforce relative speak
the other in
management relative speak.

Thus I Can't follow your judgement.
Murphy is an optimist
 
HPRamper
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:11 pm

So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.
 
United1
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:13 pm

WIederling wrote:
"...it was probably removed because it is factually wrong."

both screeds reduce to the same facts.

one is in
workforce relative speak
the other in
management relative speak.

Thus I Can't follow your judgement.


Perhaps then he should ask the moderators why it was removed rather than ask the hive mind...I am entitled to my opinion the same as you and the OP are.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
United1
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:23 pm

HPRamper wrote:
So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.


Indeed...paying for performance vs rewarding everyone equally is really a very fair way to do it and it encourages employees to actually perform.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
WIederling
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:36 pm

United1 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.


Indeed...paying for performance vs rewarding everyone equally is really a very fair way to do it and it encourages employees to actually perform.


If single persons "overperform" it tends to be because they stand on the fingers of their team comrades in just the right moment.

airline business is teamwork. singling out winners creates strife.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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janders
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:37 pm

I actually like the new program. Reminds me of CO and giving away cars.

I read the email and presentation yesterday and think its good move. Existing program was basically a blanket benefit everyone got while the new one is more targeted and uses more meaningful criteria beyond the DOT stats. Combined with the recently launched internal commendation program it will better reward and measure the performance of employees and also how customers view UA as a whole.
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cle757
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:38 pm

Wow! I didn't know UA management were moderators here
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Rdh3e
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:50 pm

The new program is actually amazing. Wide-ranging feedback from employees was that the $65 bonus (post-tax, 401k etc) was not meaningful (equates to about $0.40/hr) The new program actually provides significant rewards each quarter.

If I remember it is each quarter the company reaches it's goal in any of the four categories (which will likely be every quarter), any front-line and lower-management employees with perfect attendance will be eligible for a drawing of:

1 - $100K Cash prise
10 - Choice of $40K Cash or a Benz
20 - Choice of $20K Cash or platinum UA vacation
30 - Choice of $10K Cash or Gold UA vacation
300 - $5K Cash
1,000 - $2K Cash

That works out to about 5,500 employees getting one of these large bonuses each year, which is about 7% of the eligible workforce. That means there is a high likelihood that employees will either A) WIn, or B) Be in close contact with a winner, which serves to make the program more tangible than the old "breadcrumbs" bonus program.

All in all, the budget for this program appears to be approximately the same as the old program, but it is structured in a much more meaningful way.
 
wanderlustlax
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:53 pm

United1 wrote:

Perhaps then he should ask the moderators why it was removed rather than ask the hive mind...I am entitled to my opinion the same as you and the OP are.


Ummm...

cle757 wrote:
For some reason my post was removed, but UA has announced that they are taking away employee bonuses for on-time,baggage perfomance and other operational goals. They are replacing it with a lottery system that only a fraction of employees will receive. Along with reduced profit sharing, this has caused a huge morale dive among employees system wide.


Did he ever ask us why it was removed? Not quite.
 
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tlecam
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:55 pm

Looks like one of the big 3 strat firms have been hard at work.

It's hard to make a call on the changes without understand the entire compensation structure ("total rewards" in performance management speak).

On the one hand, having some form of individual performance based compensation is a good practice. However, to do this for a relatively small percentage of the workforce without providing company and individual performance based variable compensation isn't a leading practice. I'm not suggesting that UA is doing this - I have no idea, but it's hard to opine on the merits of these changes without more information.
Last edited by tlecam on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rdh3e
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:56 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Safe to say that the entire front line is not happy about this. They aren't directly rewarding people who are over achievers. They put their name in a hat. There's no guarantee they will be rewarded.

The previous program was also for everyone, not just over-achievers, how does that make any difference?

The problem with merit pay in a union environment is it is extremely difficult to reward high-performers without incentivizing people to step on the heads of their peers.
 
United1
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:57 pm

WIederling wrote:
United1 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.


Indeed...paying for performance vs rewarding everyone equally is really a very fair way to do it and it encourages employees to actually perform.


If single persons "overperform" it tends to be because they stand on the fingers of their team comrades in just the right moment.

airline business is teamwork. singling out winners creates strife.


There are times when people do step on their co-workers to get ahead and that is not right. However the opposite is also true there are people who do not perform and hide among the people who do expecting them to carry their weight..that is equally not right. Rewarding those who perform at least recognises that not everyone performs the same.
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jetmatt777
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:57 pm

Safe to say that the entire front line is not happy about this. They aren't directly rewarding people who are over achievers. They put their name in a hat. There's no guarantee they will be rewarded.

Also, it's a shame that attendance is a part of this. Some people abuse sick time but most don't, by penalizing people for being sick they are more likely to come in sick and spread a virus to coworkers and customers, or in the case of the ramp critically injure them self or a coworker by not being fit for duty. Someone sick with a severe cold or the flu is very dangerous in a fast paced, heavy machinery environment.

Huge mistake by our out of touch management.
Last edited by jetmatt777 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:02 pm

WIederling wrote:
United1 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.


Indeed...paying for performance vs rewarding everyone equally is really a very fair way to do it and it encourages employees to actually perform.


If single persons "overperform" it tends to be because they stand on the fingers of their team comrades in just the right moment.

airline business is teamwork. singling out winners creates strife.


When you have under-performing co-workers who are unreliable and not contributing to the team, morale suffers. Particularly when they often make the exact same amount of money as you do. Being recognized for your contributions rather than just treated as another cog in the wheel encourages people to stay and to continue to contribute. Often, anymore, it seems easier for management to pick on or take advantage of those who are contributing the most rather than address the issues of those who aren’t contributing.

The most meaningful bonuses that I’ve ever received in my life have not been the ones that everyone has gotten, but going back to the day when the owner of the company would walk in and hand YOU a check and thank YOU for your contributions, recognizing you for your stand out performance. That has largely been lost in the American business world from my experience. Now, there just isn’t an incentive to perform in the same way as there once was.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
United1
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:03 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
They aren't directly rewarding people who are over achievers. They put their name in a hat. There's no guarantee they will be rewarded.
.


...not entirely correct. The only people who are eligible to get their name stuck in the proverbial hat are the ones who meet/exceet all of the metrics. So while it won't reward everyone who "overachieves" it does motivate people to hit their metrics if they want a shot at the prizes.
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UPlog
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:17 pm

I have UA family and they shared the info about the new program yesterday.

Overall I think its more exciting and potentially rewarding. It can actually make employees strive to win.
The current program basically throws a few crumbs at everyone regardless of how individuals are doing, nor consider the new core4 customer metrics.

jetmatt777 wrote:
Also, it's a shame that attendance is a part of this. Some people abuse sick time but most don't, by penalizing people for being sick they are more likely to come in sick and spread a virus to coworkers and customers, or in the case of the ramp critically injure them self or a coworker by not being fit for duty. Someone sick with a severe cold or the flu is very dangerous in a fast paced, heavy machinery environment.
Huge mistake by our out of touch management.


Perfect attendance is something host of industries and companies reward. Yes its a shame when you get sick, but its still a fair measure to strive for.
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jetmatt777
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:20 pm

UPlog wrote:
I have UA family and they shared the info about the new program yesterday.

Overall I think its more exciting and potentially rewarding. It can actually make employees strive to win.
The current program basically throws a few crumbs at everyone regardless of how individuals are doing, nor consider the new core4 customer metrics.

jetmatt777 wrote:
Also, it's a shame that attendance is a part of this. Some people abuse sick time but most don't, by penalizing people for being sick they are more likely to come in sick and spread a virus to coworkers and customers, or in the case of the ramp critically injure them self or a coworker by not being fit for duty. Someone sick with a severe cold or the flu is very dangerous in a fast paced, heavy machinery environment.
Huge mistake by our out of touch management.


Perfect attendance is something host of industries and companies reward. Yes its a shame when you get sick, but its still a fair measure to strive for.


We have always had perfect attendance separate from operational metric bonuses. Combining them is isn't fair.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:24 pm

United1 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
They aren't directly rewarding people who are over achievers. They put their name in a hat. There's no guarantee they will be rewarded.
.


...not entirely correct. The only people who are eligible to get their name stuck in the proverbial hat are the ones who meet/exceet all of the metrics. So while it won't reward everyone who "overachieves" it does motivate people to hit their metrics if they want a shot at the prizes.


Thats exactly what I said. You do good, you have a chance to win a prize. You aren't guaranteed anything by even hitting all of your metrics. People may be encouraged a few quarters but when they do all of the steps a few quarters and don't get anything they'll decide it's not worth it.
 
Alias1024
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:45 pm

UPlog wrote:
Perfect attendance is something host of industries and companies reward. Yes its a shame when you get sick, but its still a fair measure to strive for.


It is not fair. Cubicle farm workers can go to work sick and retain their eligibility for the bonus program. Pilots are prohibited from going to work sick by federal law. That disparate treatment alone means this is not fair.

Worse than not being fair, I’d consider a perfect attendnance policy to be of questionable morality. Many airline employees work in a dangerous environment with lots of ways to be maimed or killed. Encouraging them to come to work sick for the chance to win large sums of money is wrong. Encouraging office workers to come to work and spread their illness to fellow employees is wrong. An incentive that could result in an employee delaying a doctor’s appointment and a more serious medical condition developing, all so they don’t lose their perfect attendance, is wrong.

Perfect attendance incentives sounds like a good idea until you think through all the bad things it can encourage.
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Aesma
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:04 pm

Personally I wouldn't like that system at all.

I don't really like the current system at my company, but replacing it with something totally random, no thanks. Going to work and getting paid for it should have nothing random about it.

At my company we have profit sharing, and raises and bonuses are individual and optional. Profit sharing is a formula that includes your pay, so the bigger your pay the bigger your profit sharing, but there is no individual performance parameter, if the company makes money, you get a share. I feel it's not just that the bigger the pay the bigger the share, it should be the same for everyone, especially considering that the higher your pay, the less you need the bonus anyway. But I certainly wouldn't give my share away in exchange for a lottery ticket !
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ual763
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:15 pm

Aesma wrote:
Personally I wouldn't like that system at all.

I don't really like the current system at my company, but replacing it with something totally random, no thanks. Going to work and getting paid for it should have nothing random about it.

At my company we have profit sharing, and raises and bonuses are individual and optional. Profit sharing is a formula that includes your pay, so the bigger your pay the bigger your profit sharing, but there is no individual performance parameter, if the company makes money, you get a share. I feel it's not just that the bigger the pay the bigger the share, it should be the same for everyone, especially considering that the higher your pay, the less you need the bonus anyway. But I certainly wouldn't give my share away in exchange for a lottery ticket !


United still has profit sharing. This is totally separate, and is just meant to award the top performing employees. Those that are not top-performing, will now have something to strive for. A lot of companies, including my current one, have no performance bonuses at all. I would love even the opportunity to win $100k or a car.

Also, it does suck about people getting sick and then not being eligible for the bonus. But such is life. A lot of companies have rewards for perfect attendance, including many airlines w/ safety sensitive positions. This is nothing new. United has just combined that previously separate program, with this new one.
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United1
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:19 pm

Aesma wrote:
Personally I wouldn't like that system at all.

I don't really like the current system at my company, but replacing it with something totally random, no thanks. Going to work and getting paid for it should have nothing random about it.

At my company we have profit sharing, and raises and bonuses are individual and optional. Profit sharing is a formula that includes your pay, so the bigger your pay the bigger your profit sharing, but there is no individual performance parameter, if the company makes money, you get a share. I feel it's not just that the bigger the pay the bigger the share, it should be the same for everyone, especially considering that the higher your pay, the less you need the bonus anyway. But I certainly wouldn't give my share away in exchange for a lottery ticket !


What we are talking about on this thread is a separate program above and beyond UAs existing profit sharing program.
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B737900ER
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:02 pm

I’ve had perfect attendance for close to two decades. Never been recognized by the company. Never won anything. Same will happen with this. 93% of employees won’t see a cent. We got close to 1400 dollars last year by hitting the metrics and it was a meaningful bonus and when the money started showing up people did try harder. United has 80,000 employees. You just took away a bonus for 75,000 of them.

I haven’t talked to a single co worker who is excited about this.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:22 pm

United1 wrote:
cle757 wrote:
For some reason my post was removed, but UA has announced that they are taking away employee bonuses for on-time,baggage perfomance and other operational goals. They are replacing it with a lottery system that only a fraction of employees will receive. Along with reduced profit sharing, this has caused a huge morale dive among employees system wide.


...it was probably removed because it is factually wrong.

See LAX's post for what UA is actually doing.

He just said the same exact thing LAX said.....just didn't put management speak for it.

United1 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.


Indeed...paying for performance vs rewarding everyone equally is really a very fair way to do it and it encourages employees to actually perform.

because no management employee has EVER given a bad review based on opinions outside of work right? Or no manager has been pressed by a company EVER to gave a average review to employees to keep bonuses down right?

Merit sucks. It just rewards the yes men employees at bet.

BTW, this is so great unless you are the 5,001 person who busted their ass for the year and ends up with nothing.

B737900ER wrote:
I’ve had perfect attendance for close to two decades. Never been recognized by the company. Never won anything. Same will happen with this. 93% of employees won’t see a cent. We got close to 1400 dollars last year by hitting the metrics and it was a meaningful bonus and when the money started showing up people did try harder. United has 80,000 employees. You just took away a bonus for 75,000 of them.

I haven’t talked to a single co worker who is excited about this.

I can't see how anyone outside of management would think this is a good idea.

but Scoot Kirby is going to Scoot Kirby..... :banghead: :banghead:
 
Bald1983
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:31 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Actually, instead of just handing you a $100 bonus per month for meeting DOT measures, UA has revised measure around its core4 program (be safe, caring, dependable and efficient), and will include other internal measures including customer satisfaction and employee attendance.

Up to 5,000 employees will now earn more meaningful prizes, be it a car, vacation package or even $100,000 cash! In many ways this goes back to the CO way of awarding employees cars.


Actually rewarding everyone, except pilots, (Who had their own incentive program) was what Mr. Bethune put in place at Continental. From what I have heard, Mr. Bethune managed to install a "Its our company" attitude and the employees wanted to make it work. Also included was allowing employees to use common sense, even if procedures did not quite fit.
 
Planesmart
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:40 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
When you have under-performing co-workers who are unreliable and not contributing to the team, morale suffers.

When this is the situation in a company, it means you have managers and senior managers who are UNDER-PERFORMING.

DO NOT use incentive programs to do the work of lazy, overpaid and ineffective management.

When reviewing best practice, productivity, processes and people, always start at the top with the CEO, seeking out the so-called the weakest links. Then ask for details of the mentor/s appointed to lift the senior manager's performance, documented correspondence, training, customised KRA's and incentives to support the changes required............... Nothing. Who is really the weak link?

How transparent are United's senior management incentive programs?

And yes, based on writing style, some earlier posts on this thread seem to be from United senior management, and their personnel and PR consultants.
 
Planesmart
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:45 pm

tlecam wrote:
Looks like one of the big 3 strat firms have been hard at work.

It's hard to make a call on the changes without understand the entire compensation structure ("total rewards" in performance management speak).

On the one hand, having some form of individual performance based compensation is a good practice. However, to do this for a relatively small percentage of the workforce without providing company and individual performance based variable compensation isn't a leading practice. I'm not suggesting that UA is doing this - I have no idea, but it's hard to opine on the merits of these changes without more information.

Agree. Good post.
 
Planesmart
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:51 pm

cle757 wrote:
For some reason my post was removed, but UA has announced that they are taking away employee bonuses for on-time,baggage perfomance and other operational goals. They are replacing it with a lottery system that only a fraction of employees will receive. Along with reduced profit sharing, this has caused a huge morale dive among employees system wide.

Perhaps your post was removed to allow United management time to 'organise' responses from a number of 'banked' posters.

Financially successful hosts offer all sorts of fee-paying services to corporate clients, so they don't have to employ staff to read every post.
 
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janders
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:06 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
1.5% of the workforce will be rewarded each quarter for the operational success of the entire airline.

I usually have perfect attendance so I am likely in the running. But it's still not fair to reward that few of people for the operational goals of the entire workforce.


In reality how many employees have perfect attendance over the year? 50%.

So 5,000+ employees will get atleast a $2,000 prize out of a potential pool of 40,000? with perfect attendance.

That seems like much better odds, and good incentive imo.


Bald1983 wrote:
Actually rewarding everyone, except pilots, (Who had their own incentive program) was what Mr. Bethune put in place at Continental. From what I have heard, Mr. Bethune managed to install a "Its our company" attitude and the employees wanted to make it work. Also included was allowing employees to use common sense, even if procedures did not quite fit.


Profit sharing still exist for all eligible work groups. That has not changed.

This program is an above and beyond reward incentive.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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admanager
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:13 pm

ual763 wrote:
United still has profit sharing. This is totally separate, and is just meant to award the top performing employees. Those that are not top-performing, will now have something to strive for. A lot of companies, including my current one, have no performance bonuses at all. I would love even the opportunity to win $100k or a car.


Fixed it for you..This is totally separate, and is just meant to award [b]a random selection based on chance[/b] of the top performing employees.

That said - let's see what happens. Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it's not a step in the right direction.
 
B737900ER
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:14 pm

janders wrote:
In reality how many employees have perfect attendance over the year?

This isn’t an attendance incentive. Your attendance really has little bearing on operational efficiency. I could be the laziest, dumbest emoloyeee and my bad work habits and incompetent decision will making actually contribute to delays. But as long as I show up I’ll be rewarded.

At CO they used to give out the cars. I don’t know anyone who actually won a car. And most don’t. So what happened was people saw that winning a car was unrealistic, and there was more personal value in using sick time twice a year. So more people called in sick. Once the majority see that there is no more incentive, they won’t try as hard. That unfortunately is human nature.
 
flydude380
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:30 pm

Terrible stuff! All employees should be rewarded equally!
 
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malaysia
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:34 pm

I had a friend who use to work at CO and he mentioned that that an employee did win a car twice or something.... wonder if at UA, someone might win 100K more than once or 2-3 cars. That would probably cause friction among peers and imagine if that repeat winner was a low level manager as someone stated above that they are eligible at UA.
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Antarius
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:58 pm

WIederling wrote:
United1 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.


Indeed...paying for performance vs rewarding everyone equally is really a very fair way to do it and it encourages employees to actually perform.


If single persons "overperform" it tends to be because they stand on the fingers of their team comrades in just the right moment.

airline business is teamwork. singling out winners creates strife.


This is the attitude of a poor performing workforce. Oil and Gas is full of this too. It's no wonder that when times get tough layoffs and benefit slashing is endemic in both fields.

You can encourage people to stand out while not trampling their coworkers. That's the right thing to Do- not reward every one whether they try or not.
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DDR
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:01 pm

This kind of bones all the other employees who don't get picked, no? Doesn't UA have over 20,000 flight attendants alone? Then you have all the other employees. Seems like a relative small portion of the workforce has a chance at getting anything. And what good is a car when someone already has a perfectly good car and doesn't need/want another? Also, what are the chances of the person who gets the 100,000.00 staying on with the company?
 
gwrudolph
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:08 pm

I remember pmUA used to have a program of this nature. The only criteria was perfect attendance. If you had perfect attendance for the period, your name was placed in the drawing. One year, the person who won was out sick the day of the drawing. I never missed a day in 10 years. I couldn't help but think about the irony . . . what a kick in the pants that was . . .
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:35 pm

There is virtually an all new senior leadership team at United. They are looking to build a new company, with a new message for employees and customers.

Whether the core4 principles hold or fade away time will tell, however in the meantime there certainly is no reason why not try different incentive programs with employees.

The old flat $100/mo payout was rather stale imo in that is was predictable and as this thread shows too many got used to their monthly candy fix for it to be special. New program adds more metric to reach including personal attendance plus includes a new element of variability with the lottery with much higher rewards which might or might not incentivize folks at the end. Lets see and lets give it a couple years.
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Antarius
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:55 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Counting attendance as a personal performance goal is pretty standard thing at companies. Heck many companies consider it as a basic metric in your annual performance review.


I mean, in the sense that it is a baseline. If your attendance is lacking then you get written up or a talking to. Same as showing up to work on time, adhering to the dress code etc. You get paid to do that.
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LAXintl
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:55 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
We have always had perfect attendance separate from operational metric bonuses. Combining them is isn't fair.

Counting attendance as a personal performance goal is pretty standard thing at companies. Heck many companies consider it as a basic metric in your annual performance review.

Yes getting sick sucks, but as you state yourself maintaining perfect attendance is certainly possible, and can be striven for.

DDR wrote:
Also, what are the chances of the person who gets the 100,000.00 staying on with the company?

Pretty high. $100k is not much to quit a job over imo. Especially when it will be treated as a one-off bonus check tax wise (40-50% rate).
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jumbojet
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:58 pm

ual763 wrote:
[
United still has profit sharing. This is totally separate, and is just meant to award the top performing employees. Those that are not top-performing, will now have something to strive for. A lot of companies, including my current one, have no performance bonuses at all. I would love even the opportunity to win $100k or a car.

.


Maybe UA needs to up it profit sharing so that its industry leading. But all in all, this program is horrible. Say myself and several other people work in the same work group and neither of us miss a day of work and we equally, as a team, bust our ass to get the employee bonus of $100,000.00 and only one of us gets it. You don't think that's going to cause resentment? Especially for the one worker who sucked it up and came into work while being very sick? And how about the one worker who decides he/she is going for the 'gold' and comes in while sick and because of that spreads his/her germs and gets others sick? Terrible, terrible idea. UA really doesn't think these things through at all.
 
iad51fl
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:07 pm

This is all extra stuff... stuff that the company really does not have to give you. I do not remember seeing an "on time bonus guarantee" in the papers I signed when I started....I don't even remember a "Profit Sharing guarantee" being in there.

You get paid to do a job, you know what the pay is and the attendance, performance, and other requirements of that job.... the company should not have to dangle carrots out there to get you to do the job you voluntarily chose to do. They must see a problem with the abuse of sick time, so they combined attendance with the performance program... to try to fix it because apparently the employees were not fixing it themselves.

I say its a good program that will reward the people who do not abuse sicktime (and who were/are always stuck covering the callouts) and who work together to turn the planes.
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jumbojet
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:14 pm

iad51fl wrote:
I say its a good program that will reward the people who do not abuse sicktime (and who were/are always stuck covering the callouts) and who work together to turn the planes.


So now poor 'johnny' who assists in turning the plane, has the flu, and really wants that 100 grand, sucks it up and comes to work because he needs the money from being paid poor wages to begin with having to deal with a subpar profit sharing plan, gets nearly everyone who he had contact with sick causing them in turn to be forced to call out sick. Think it wont happen? It absolutely will, just that Johnny wont tell you he's sick and Johnny won't post it on Anet.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:22 pm

On the surface I'm skeptical of the program, but it would be nice to see the full details. I don't exactly trust employees to give the whole truth. Also, I suspect management is thinking the previous system had grown stale and wasn't as useful as before. And as mentioned previously, it wouldn't surprise me if sick leave is being abused. There's no perfect system. It isn't "fair" for somebody.

But what really bugs me is the sense of entitlement from airline employees that somehow they deserve something extra for doing their job well. No, that should be the goal every day no matter if there's extra tied with it or not.

jumbojet wrote:
Maybe UA needs to up it profit sharing so that its industry leading.


UA doesn't need to when they already provide good pay and benefits up front in a binding contract.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:24 pm

LAXintl wrote:
DDR wrote:
Also, what are the chances of the person who gets the 100,000.00 staying on with the company?

Pretty high. $100k is not much to quit a job over imo. Especially when it will be treated as a one-off bonus check tax wise (40-50% rate).


To be fair, a 50 percent tax rate, while theoretically possible, is not close to what most employees would pay on a $100,000 bonus, especially if they live in a relatively low-tax state (or Texas, where employees will pay only federal income taxes on it).
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UPlog
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:30 pm

iad51fl wrote:
This is all extra stuff... stuff that the company really does not have to give you. I do not remember seeing an "on time bonus guarantee" in the papers I signed when I started....I don't even remember a "Profit Sharing guarantee" being in there.

You get paid to do a job, you know what the pay is and the attendance, performance, and other requirements of that job.... the company should not have to dangle carrots out there to get you to do the job you voluntarily chose to do. They must see a problem with the abuse of sick time, so they combined attendance with the performance program... to try to fix it because apparently the employees were not fixing it themselves.


:checkmark: Right on.

The company is not required to give any monthly or quarterly bonus.

These programs - the old one, and the new one are above and beyond and not part of your compensation package. Sadly it seems too many employees believe its their God given right to get these monies when reality is the opposite.
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UPlog
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:37 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
DDR wrote:
Also, what are the chances of the person who gets the 100,000.00 staying on with the company?

Pretty high. $100k is not much to quit a job over imo. Especially when it will be treated as a one-off bonus check tax wise (40-50% rate).


To be fair, a 50 percent tax rate, while theoretically possible, is not close to what most employees would pay on a $100,000 bonus, especially if they live in a relatively low-tax state (or Texas, where employees will pay only federal income taxes on it).


You can look online and calculate it.
https://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/flatbonus/

I work in a company where things like bonus/profit sharing are paid out in one big check and normally a good 40%+ is eaten away in taxes.

For fun I looked at the above calculator and even in Texas a little above 30% is taken away by the tax man on such large bonus payments.

Regardless, I doubt people will be quitting their jobs particularly those with some tenure after winning the $100k
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DDR
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:44 pm

I have never said it is a "God given right" for companies to give away bonuses. I just think that if they are going to do it, everyone should receive a share. Not just a lucky few. In the current scenario, someone who doesn't give a shit can get a great bonus while someone who busted their ass all year will get nothing.

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