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kngkyle
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:46 pm

Where I work the bonus for meeting your metrics is getting to keep your job.

But I would agree that if you are going to give a bonus like this then it should be entirely based on performance.
 
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cranberrysaus
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:22 pm

UPlog wrote:
iad51fl wrote:
This is all extra stuff... stuff that the company really does not have to give you. I do not remember seeing an "on time bonus guarantee" in the papers I signed when I started....I don't even remember a "Profit Sharing guarantee" being in there.

You get paid to do a job, you know what the pay is and the attendance, performance, and other requirements of that job.... the company should not have to dangle carrots out there to get you to do the job you voluntarily chose to do. They must see a problem with the abuse of sick time, so they combined attendance with the performance program... to try to fix it because apparently the employees were not fixing it themselves.


:checkmark: Right on.

The company is not required to give any monthly or quarterly bonus.

These programs - the old one, and the new one are above and beyond and not part of your compensation package. Sadly it seems too many employees believe its their God given right to get these monies when reality is the opposite.


Nice try Mr. Munoz
 
Cubsrule
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:25 pm

UPlog wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Pretty high. $100k is not much to quit a job over imo. Especially when it will be treated as a one-off bonus check tax wise (40-50% rate).


To be fair, a 50 percent tax rate, while theoretically possible, is not close to what most employees would pay on a $100,000 bonus, especially if they live in a relatively low-tax state (or Texas, where employees will pay only federal income taxes on it).


You can look online and calculate it.
https://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/flatbonus/

I work in a company where things like bonus/profit sharing are paid out in one big check and normally a good 40%+ is eaten away in taxes.

For fun I looked at the above calculator and even in Texas a little above 30% is taken away by the tax man on such large bonus payments.

Regardless, I doubt people will be quitting their jobs particularly those with some tenure after winning the $100k


Let’s take a single person making $80,000 before bonus. The effective income tax rate on a $100,000 bonus is about 27 percent. Social security is about 3 percent (6.2 up to $128,400, zero above that). Medicare is another percent. So we are at 31 before state taxes. What’s the highest state income tax on a state with a UA hub?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:33 pm

jumbojet wrote:
iad51fl wrote:
I say its a good program that will reward the people who do not abuse sicktime (and who were/are always stuck covering the callouts) and who work together to turn the planes.


So now poor 'johnny' who assists in turning the plane, has the flu, and really wants that 100 grand, sucks it up and comes to work because he needs the money from being paid poor wages to begin with having to deal with a subpar profit sharing plan, gets nearly everyone who he had contact with sick causing them in turn to be forced to call out sick. Think it wont happen? It absolutely will, just that Johnny wont tell you he's sick and Johnny won't post it on Anet.


Absolutely. I've seen some people come in very rough shape just to keep their attendance bonus under the previous plan. I can't imagine the people who will try and come in because a $100k carrot is being dangled in front of them. The airline industry has a lot of people who are addicted to gambling, increase the stakes and this is a recipe for a lot less sick calls (for the wrong reason) and a lot more dangerous situations.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:57 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
iad51fl wrote:
I say its a good program that will reward the people who do not abuse sicktime (and who were/are always stuck covering the callouts) and who work together to turn the planes.


So now poor 'johnny' who assists in turning the plane, has the flu, and really wants that 100 grand, sucks it up and comes to work because he needs the money from being paid poor wages to begin with having to deal with a subpar profit sharing plan, gets nearly everyone who he had contact with sick causing them in turn to be forced to call out sick. Think it wont happen? It absolutely will, just that Johnny wont tell you he's sick and Johnny won't post it on Anet.


Absolutely. I've seen some people come in very rough shape just to keep their attendance bonus under the previous plan. I can't imagine the people who will try and come in because a $100k carrot is being dangled in front of them. The airline industry has a lot of people who are addicted to gambling, increase the stakes and this is a recipe for a lot less sick calls (for the wrong reason) and a lot more dangerous situations.


Maybe the best thing would be to just kill the incentives. I doubt in the big picture they really make much of a difference anyhow. In my experience, the "best" people will always do their best. The "worst" people will always do the minimum or wait to get fired and collect unemployment. The goal should be to reward the "best" with more pay or more opportunities, while weeding out the "worst" for poor performance or inability to show up for work consistently. Whether that's even doable in the service industry anymore is one question.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:10 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

So now poor 'johnny' who assists in turning the plane, has the flu, and really wants that 100 grand, sucks it up and comes to work because he needs the money from being paid poor wages to begin with having to deal with a subpar profit sharing plan, gets nearly everyone who he had contact with sick causing them in turn to be forced to call out sick. Think it wont happen? It absolutely will, just that Johnny wont tell you he's sick and Johnny won't post it on Anet.


Absolutely. I've seen some people come in very rough shape just to keep their attendance bonus under the previous plan. I can't imagine the people who will try and come in because a $100k carrot is being dangled in front of them. The airline industry has a lot of people who are addicted to gambling, increase the stakes and this is a recipe for a lot less sick calls (for the wrong reason) and a lot more dangerous situations.


Maybe the best thing would be to just kill the incentives. I doubt in the big picture they really make much of a difference anyhow. In my experience, the "best" people will always do their best. The "worst" people will always do the minimum or wait to get fired and collect unemployment. The goal should be to reward the "best" with more pay or more opportunities, while weeding out the "worst" for poor performance or inability to show up for work consistently. Whether that's even doable in the service industry anymore is one question.


I'm fine with any type of program as long as it is guided correctly. Having an individual performance bonus is fine, but they are lumping individual performance along with company performance. So, the people who are potentially being rewarded are ONLY rewarded if the company hits the operational metrics (that the entire company and all work groups are working for). So, again a few are rewarded for the hard work of everyone in this particular case. If they dropped the operational requirement, and rewarded only those who have perfect attendance and were recommended for the nomination by their supervisor or manager that would be completely different.

So to recap, the bonus will be paid if:

1. The employee is nominated or otherwise eligible
2. The entire company performs to a certain standard.

The bonus for both of those conditions will only be paid if both are true, and will only be paid to individuals who were nominated.

Do you see the problem? The whole company has to perform to a predetermined standard and not everyone who helped get the whole company to that standard will be in the running for the bonus. It's wrong.
 
IPFreely
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:17 am

janders wrote:
Profit sharing still exist for all eligible work groups. That has not changed.

This program is an above and beyond reward incentive.


From what I gather, this is true? If so, the thread title needs to be changed. It says "United replacing employee bonuses with new program". It should say "United adding a performance incentive program on top of the existing bonus program." That's a huge difference.
 
ikramerica
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:36 am

Attendance bonuses are discriminatory. They favor unmarried, childless people with strong constitutions. The first two factors can not legally be rewarded, and the third is beyond the control of the employee.

Any company who uses perfect attendance as a metric is just asking for a lawsuit.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
UALifer
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:08 am

This is purely a cost-cutting move, nothing to do with changing things up, new leadership wanting to try new things, or any of that.

Under the old program, roughly 80,000 employees were eligible for up to $100 in operational bonuses per month, which means United was paying out up to $96M in operational bonuses per year if targets were met every month. Even if only half of them were met, you're still looking at $48M.

The new program gives out $100,000 to 1 person, $40,000 to 10 people, $20,000 to 20 people, $10,000 to 30 people, $5,000 to 300 people, and $2,000 to 1,000 people, totaling a maximum annual payout of $18.8M. At a time where United is very focused on keeping costs down, this is an easy way to save some money, even if it's not a lot. I'm sure this is just one of many small moves they are making to keep costs down.
 
iad51fl
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:16 am

ikramerica wrote:
Attendance bonuses are discriminatory. They favor unmarried, childless people with strong constitutions. The first two factors can not legally be rewarded, and the third is beyond the control of the employee.

Any company who uses perfect attendance as a metric is just asking for a lawsuit.


Yes, because I NEVER cover another employee because their kid is sick, has to go to the doctor, etc... or cover an employee who is out on maternity leave. Also get stuck short handed when little Sally requires a parent/teacher meeting or gets sent home from school. Single, childless employees are screwed over daily. Just because you decided to procreate, its not my job to take up your slack.
Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.980548, -95.271201
 
charlienorth
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:29 am

Instead of whining and complaining read the E-mail from Kirby and read the Q&A, I see so many assumptions here that are answered if you just read it, don't just jump on the piss and moan band wagon and see how it works,
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
ual763
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:30 am

UALifer wrote:
This is purely a cost-cutting move, nothing to do with changing things up, new leadership wanting to try new things, or any of that.

Under the old program, roughly 80,000 employees were eligible for up to $100 in operational bonuses per month, which means United was paying out up to $96M in operational bonuses per year if targets were met every month. Even if only half of them were met, you're still looking at $48M.

The new program gives out $100,000 to 1 person, $40,000 to 10 people, $20,000 to 20 people, $10,000 to 30 people, $5,000 to 300 people, and $2,000 to 1,000 people, totaling a maximum annual payout of $18.8M. At a time where United is very focused on keeping costs down, this is an easy way to save some money, even if it's not a lot. I'm sure this is just one of many small moves they are making to keep costs down.


Get this right from The Points Guy article? Not even close to the blanket number of "90,000" employees received the $100 per month under the old policy. His article is pure sensationalistic journalism meant to feed off of the negative press United has been getting over the last year. He made up most of his statistics by simply taking 90,000 and multiplying by 300.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:40 am

UALifer wrote:
This is purely a cost-cutting move, nothing to do with changing things up, new leadership wanting to try new things, or any of that.

Under the old program, roughly 80,000 employees were eligible for up to $100 in operational bonuses per month, which means United was paying out up to $96M in operational bonuses per year if targets were met every month. Even if only half of them were met, you're still looking at $48M.

The new program gives out $100,000 to 1 person, $40,000 to 10 people, $20,000 to 20 people, $10,000 to 30 people, $5,000 to 300 people, and $2,000 to 1,000 people, totaling a maximum annual payout of $18.8M. At a time where United is very focused on keeping costs down, this is an easy way to save some money, even if it's not a lot. I'm sure this is just one of many small moves they are making to keep costs down.


I'm sure it's likely costing them less. Whether it's better or not is up to the UA employees I guess.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
charlienorth
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:52 am

Instead of whining and complaining read the E-mail from Kirby and read the Q&A, I see so many assumptions here that are answered if you just read it, don't just jump on the piss and moan band wagon and see how it works,
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
UALifer
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:35 am

Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:53 am

ual763 wrote:
UALifer wrote:
This is purely a cost-cutting move, nothing to do with changing things up, new leadership wanting to try new things, or any of that.

Under the old program, roughly 80,000 employees were eligible for up to $100 in operational bonuses per month, which means United was paying out up to $96M in operational bonuses per year if targets were met every month. Even if only half of them were met, you're still looking at $48M.

The new program gives out $100,000 to 1 person, $40,000 to 10 people, $20,000 to 20 people, $10,000 to 30 people, $5,000 to 300 people, and $2,000 to 1,000 people, totaling a maximum annual payout of $18.8M. At a time where United is very focused on keeping costs down, this is an easy way to save some money, even if it's not a lot. I'm sure this is just one of many small moves they are making to keep costs down.


Get this right from The Points Guy article? Not even close to the blanket number of "90,000" employees received the $100 per month under the old policy. His article is pure sensationalistic journalism meant to feed off of the negative press United has been getting over the last year. He made up most of his statistics by simply taking 90,000 and multiplying by 300.


Didn't read the TPG article... I just did my own math. Of United's 90k employees, how many weren't eligible for operational bonuses? Managers and above? How many people is that? It can't be more than 10-15% of them.

I personally think that this move makes sense. I have no problem with UA trying to cut costs, especially with fuel rising. I'd wager that most employees hardly noticed the $100 that they got most months.
 
B737900ER
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:16 am

UALifer wrote:
I'd wager that most employees hardly noticed the $100 that they got most months.

You’d loose that one. We got a 325 dollar check and a granola bar every quarter. The majority will notice it’s gone. I for one will miss the extra play dough
 
Rdh3e
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:50 am

This discussion has really highlighted that the old program ceased being an incentive and became an entitlement.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:12 am

Bald1983 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Actually, instead of just handing you a $100 bonus per month for meeting DOT measures, UA has revised measure around its core4 program (be safe, caring, dependable and efficient), and will include other internal measures including customer satisfaction and employee attendance.

Up to 5,000 employees will now earn more meaningful prizes, be it a car, vacation package or even $100,000 cash! In many ways this goes back to the CO way of awarding employees cars.


Actually rewarding everyone, except pilots, (Who had their own incentive program) was what Mr. Bethune put in place at Continental. From what I have heard, Mr. Bethune managed to install a "Its our company" attitude and the employees wanted to make it work. Also included was allowing employees to use common sense, even if procedures did not quite fit.


The employees at UA are NOT allowed to use common sense, period. 100% by the book, be a good robot. Just think back a few days to the post of the UA employee, and the basic economy fare pax and her handbag.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
ikramerica
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:41 am

iad51fl wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
Attendance bonuses are discriminatory. They favor unmarried, childless people with strong constitutions. The first two factors can not legally be rewarded, and the third is beyond the control of the employee.

Any company who uses perfect attendance as a metric is just asking for a lawsuit.


Yes, because I NEVER cover another employee because their kid is sick, has to go to the doctor, etc... or cover an employee who is out on maternity leave. Also get stuck short handed when little Sally requires a parent/teacher meeting or gets sent home from school. Single, childless employees are screwed over daily. Just because you decided to procreate, its not my job to take up your slack.

While you may be bitter, it doesn’t change the fact that workplace discrimination against people who are married or have children is illegal.

And people who work hourly don’t get paid for much of that time you claim you are “covering” for them. People on salary like my wife bring their work home to make up for the time they miss to take care of something family related.

As for maternity leave, the only pay she got was a small amount of disability paid for by the years she worked paying into the system.

But you are so right.

You can use your PTO however you like. We basically use it to take care of sick family members.
You get to go out at night and weekends. We haven’t been to a movie in 4 years.

Your life is so hard compared to our easy life. I’m sorry to inconvenience you.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jakubz
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:55 am

Alias1024 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
....


It is not fair. Cubicle farm workers can go to work sick and retain their eligibility for the bonus program.
.....


First off, I won't comment on the program itself since I'm a United employee other than to say it definitely got my attention.

Secondly, no. I called in sick the day after the Super Bowl. I was feeling like crap. I thought I was better the next day, but 30 seconds after my group's VP walked past me he came back and sent me home. So no, it isn't 100% that the office workers can come in sick and keep working. On the other hand, if I'm contagious-sick, but otherwise mentally alert enough to do my work remotely/from home, why shouldn't I get to retain my eligibility?

Secondly, "cubicle farm workers"? What's your position? I'm sure I can think of something just as lovely to call your role.
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of SA!
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My comment are my own. I don't speak for any company.
 
OKCDCA
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:01 am

As someone who has managed a unionized workforce, there is nothing I enjoy more than watching a company incentivize them outside of the CBA. You really see who is loyal to the company and wants to keep their job. The union will argue that it’s not in the CBA to do this to protect the bottom feeders. CBA’s outline the areas companies can enforce policies agreed to between labor and management. If it’s not in the CBA, then labor hasn’t been smart enough to think of it, therefore it belongs to the company and they can enforce it as policy. I’m not a United person but I sure enjoy seeing a company push their work force to achieve maximum efficiency. You can put down management all you want but at the end of the day, managements attorneys and labor professionals will always outsmart their counterparts from labor.

Also, anyone claiming using attendance as an input is discriminatory needs to pull their head out. Employers in the US have been using attendance as grounds for discipline forever. If you’re claiming using attendance as a disciplinary or deciding factor as an input to an incentive is discriminatory, you’ve been listening to too much union rhetoric as a basis for your own ability to not show up at work.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:22 am

Rdh3e wrote:
If I remember it is each quarter the company reaches it's goal in any of the four categories (which will likely be every quarter), any front-line and lower-management employees with perfect attendance will be eligible for a drawing of:

1 - $100K Cash prise
10 - Choice of $40K Cash or a Benz
20 - Choice of $20K Cash or platinum UA vacation
30 - Choice of $10K Cash or Gold UA vacation
300 - $5K Cash
1,000 - $2K Cash

That works out to about 5,500 employees getting one of these large bonuses each year, which is about 7% of the eligible workforce. That means there is a high likelihood that employees will either A) WIn, or B) Be in close contact with a winner, which serves to make the program more tangible than the old "breadcrumbs" bonus program.


This is a pretty exciting program, if you ask me. As was said earlier, you have a high likelihood of knowing at least one person who won something, assuming you yourself don't win something, that is. The excitement of knowing that in any quarter you may, depending on your performance, be eligible to win one of these prizes is a pretty nice incentive. I remember when CO gave away cars for perfect attendance, and AS mimicked that program for awhile as well. They were popular, but - speaking at least for the AS side - it became unwieldy when we had to award "perfect attendance" to people who actually missed a lot of time that was covered under FMLA and/or similar state leave laws.

I wonder how UA will get around that problem?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jakubz
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:36 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
If I remember it is each quarter the company reaches it's goal in any of the four categories (which will likely be every quarter), any front-line and lower-management employees with perfect attendance will be eligible for a drawing of:

1 - $100K Cash prise
10 - Choice of $40K Cash or a Benz
20 - Choice of $20K Cash or platinum UA vacation
30 - Choice of $10K Cash or Gold UA vacation
300 - $5K Cash
1,000 - $2K Cash

That works out to about 5,500 employees getting one of these large bonuses each year, which is about 7% of the eligible workforce. That means there is a high likelihood that employees will either A) WIn, or B) Be in close contact with a winner, which serves to make the program more tangible than the old "breadcrumbs" bonus program.


This is a pretty exciting program, if you ask me. As was said earlier, you have a high likelihood of knowing at least one person who won something, assuming you yourself don't win something, that is. The excitement of knowing that in any quarter you may, depending on your performance, be eligible to win one of these prizes is a pretty nice incentive. I remember when CO gave away cars for perfect attendance, and AS mimicked that program for awhile as well. They were popular, but - speaking at least for the AS side - it became unwieldy when we had to award "perfect attendance" to people who actually missed a lot of time that was covered under FMLA and/or similar state leave laws.

I wonder how UA will get around that problem?


Well, I guess it comes down to weather you'd rather get something small but (semi-)consistently or small random chance of getting a big bonus. Personally my opinion is based on the expected value. All I will say is there is a large difference between the two different programs in that area.

"Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math" - Ambrose Bierce
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of SA!
Yes, I use ICAO codes
Flown: PA-28, PA-38
Passenger on: A319/A320, A380, 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, 787-8/9
Finally got on a 747!

My comment are my own. I don't speak for any company.
 
DXTraveler
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 am

"So now poor 'johnny' who assists in turning the plane, has the flu, and really wants that 100 grand, sucks it up and comes to work because he needs the money from being paid poor wages to begin with having to deal with a subpar profit sharing plan, gets nearly everyone who he had contact with sick causing them in turn to be forced to call out sick. Think it wont happen? It absolutely will, just that Johnny wont tell you he's sick and Johnny won't post it on net."

If Johnny's job sucks that much, I'd encourage him to look for something else, something that he enjoys doing, in a better environment. I just don't understand why people voluntarily tie themselves to something that makes them miserable. Take control of your life. It's kind of sad.
 
Bald1983
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Re: United is taking away employee bonuses

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:48 am

janders wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
1.5% of the workforce will be rewarded each quarter for the operational success of the entire airline.

I usually have perfect attendance so I am likely in the running. But it's still not fair to reward that few of people for the operational goals of the entire workforce.


In reality how many employees have perfect attendance over the year? 50%.

So 5,000+ employees will get atleast a $2,000 prize out of a potential pool of 40,000? with perfect attendance.

That seems like much better odds, and good incentive imo.


Bald1983 wrote:
Actually rewarding everyone, except pilots, (Who had their own incentive program) was what Mr. Bethune put in place at Continental. From what I have heard, Mr. Bethune managed to install a "Its our company" attitude and the employees wanted to make it work. Also included was allowing employees to use common sense, even if procedures did not quite fit.


Profit sharing still exist for all eligible work groups. That has not changed.

This program is an above and beyond reward incentive.


Bethune at Continental did the bonus program for meeting operational goals. It actually saved money. For every dollar, at least in the beginning, they paid, they saved two, in fewer lost bags, fewer compensation claims for delays or cancellations, at least form what I read.
 
COSPN
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 am

Most of us make 80k plus so I don’t think anyone will “quit” if they get 100 (55 tax free )
 
FermiParadox
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:41 am

B737900ER wrote:
I’ve had perfect attendance for close to two decades. Never been recognized by the company. Never won anything. Same will happen with this. 93% of employees won’t see a cent. We got close to 1400 dollars last year by hitting the metrics and it was a meaningful bonus and when the money started showing up people did try harder. United has 80,000 employees. You just took away a bonus for 75,000 of them.

I haven’t talked to a single co worker who is excited about this.


On behalf of United Airlines, I just wanted to thank you for showing up to work while you were presumably sick, and in turn getting your coworkers sick, many of whom were considerate enough to call in sick so as not to infect other coworkers.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:17 am

DDR wrote:
I have never said it is a "God given right" for companies to give away bonuses. I just think that if they are going to do it, everyone should receive a share. Not just a lucky few. In the current scenario, someone who doesn't give a shit can get a great bonus while someone who busted their ass all year will get nothing.


This new program is a swing-and-a-miss for United.
 
VC10er
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:01 am

I who know nothing: Does Delta, American or Southwest etc...have anything like this program? Or will United (for now) have this additional bonus program with such hefty awards?
As a United heavy user I am interested to see if the passenger will feel a palpable bump up in customer service and across the board operational improvements.
Seems like this program needs a minimum of a year in action to gauge if the end result ladders up to United becoming a favored airline vs being often ranked last on most measures.
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B737900ER
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:32 pm

FermiParadox wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
I’ve had perfect attendance for close to two decades. Never been recognized by the company. Never won anything. Same will happen with this. 93% of employees won’t see a cent. We got close to 1400 dollars last year by hitting the metrics and it was a meaningful bonus and when the money started showing up people did try harder. United has 80,000 employees. You just took away a bonus for 75,000 of them.

I haven’t talked to a single co worker who is excited about this.


On behalf of United Airlines, I just wanted to thank you for showing up to work while you were presumably sick, and in turn getting your coworkers sick, many of whom were considerate enough to call in sick so as not to infect other coworkers.

You assume I get sick
 
FermiParadox
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:23 pm

B737900ER wrote:
FermiParadox wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
I’ve had perfect attendance for close to two decades. Never been recognized by the company. Never won anything. Same will happen with this. 93% of employees won’t see a cent. We got close to 1400 dollars last year by hitting the metrics and it was a meaningful bonus and when the money started showing up people did try harder. United has 80,000 employees. You just took away a bonus for 75,000 of them.

I haven’t talked to a single co worker who is excited about this.


On behalf of United Airlines, I just wanted to thank you for showing up to work while you were presumably sick, and in turn getting your coworkers sick, many of whom were considerate enough to call in sick so as not to infect other coworkers.

You assume I get sick


20 years and you were 100% each and every day huh? I guess your illness is mental then, since that's clearly a delusion.
 
jumbojet
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:20 pm

Employees United in Hating United's New Idea...

Seems that United still cant get it right. United's execs are out of touch and alienate employees on this horrendous new plan. Most employees seem to hate the new idea. Some quotes from newser.com

United Airlines employees were told on Friday that each quarter, one of them would receive a $100,000 prize—and the news reportedly landed with a thud.

The rank and file: Employees aren't reacting warmly. Bloomberg quotes the president of United’s flight dispatchers union as saying, "we all want to win, but this program doesn't encourage a team approach to winning. No team-oriented reward should be dictated by lottery."
More reaction: In an Inc. piece titled, "United Airlines' President Just Showed How Not to Talk to Employees (and Now They're Mad as Hell)," Chris Matyszczyk writes that he's heard from "appalled" flight attendants, and parses the language used in Kirby's memo, for instance, "rewards program." He writes, "What does that remind you of? Why, frequent flyer miles. And what has happened to those miles over recent years? Why, they've become significantly devalued. Might this give you a clue to what's on United's mind here?"

Resentment towards Kirby is growing. Read the entire article here:

http://www.newser.com/story/256158/2/un ... -idea.html
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:31 pm

UPlog wrote:

I work in a company where things like bonus/profit sharing are paid out in one big check and normally a good 40%+ is eaten away in taxes.

For fun I looked at the above calculator and even in Texas a little above 30% is taken away by the tax man on such large bonus payments.


You are confusing withholding of taxes and actual payment of taxes. While a huge bonus may trigger a substantial withholding amount, your taxes you pay will be at the regular rate of your overall yearly net earnings. It does not matter if it is one payment or a hundred. Your net earnings for the year are your net earnings for the year. Any withholding overage will be refunded after you submit your 1040.
 
red66mustang
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:18 pm

VC10er wrote:
I who know nothing: Does Delta, American or Southwest etc...have anything like this program? Or will United (for now) have this additional bonus program with such hefty awards?
As a United heavy user I am interested to see if the passenger will feel a palpable bump up in customer service and across the board operational improvements.
Seems like this program needs a minimum of a year in action to gauge if the end result ladders up to United becoming a favored airline vs being often ranked last on most measures.


For SWA, there are yearly "Kicktail" goals. The goals are tied to DOT complaints, MBR, and OTP. Hitting each goal netted every employee 3000 "SWAG" points for each goal hit with 10k pts being awarded if all three are met. Separately there are perfect attendance awards every month. A month of perfect attendance nets something like 2500 SWAG points each month. SWAG points are redeemable for buddy passes, RR points, as well as Visa gift cards.
 
cle757
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:24 pm

Over 3000 negative comments have been made on the internal website!..It was also on the local news today! .People are pissed!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
flyguy84
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:46 pm

The new program has been scrapped... they will work with all work groups to come up with a new program.
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ikramerica
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:52 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
As someone who has managed a unionized workforce, there is nothing I enjoy more than watching a company incentivize them outside of the CBA. You really see who is loyal to the company and wants to keep their job. The union will argue that it’s not in the CBA to do this to protect the bottom feeders. CBA’s outline the areas companies can enforce policies agreed to between labor and management. If it’s not in the CBA, then labor hasn’t been smart enough to think of it, therefore it belongs to the company and they can enforce it as policy. I’m not a United person but I sure enjoy seeing a company push their work force to achieve maximum efficiency. You can put down management all you want but at the end of the day, managements attorneys and labor professionals will always outsmart their counterparts from labor.

Also, anyone claiming using attendance as an input is discriminatory needs to pull their head out. Employers in the US have been using attendance as grounds for discipline forever. If you’re claiming using attendance as a disciplinary or deciding factor as an input to an incentive is discriminatory, you’ve been listening to too much union rhetoric as a basis for your own ability to not show up at work.

You are confusing the issue. Discipline based on poor attendance is one thing. Rewarding PERFECT attendance is discriminatory.

There is no evidence that would support the assertion that someone who is sick once a quarter or who has to take a child to the doctor once a quarter or has to take an unplanned day off because their mother died and uses a PTO day is necessarily and categorically less valuable or productive than the person who doesn’t have that happen. There IS evidence that someone who is constantly missing work is detrimental to the workplace.

Conflating the two is disingenuous, and punishing someone for missing a day for those reasons is a good way to damage morale and loyalty, not enhance it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cle757
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:04 pm

UPDATE!!! THIS new Program has been scrapped!!...for now
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
 
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OA412
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:20 pm

cle757 wrote:
UPDATE!!! THIS new Program has been scrapped!!...for now
flyguy84 wrote:
The new program has been scrapped... they will work with all work groups to come up with a new program.

Is there a link to this story? I searched and don't find anything. If it is indeed true that UA is scrapping this new program, presumably because of employee backlash, on the one hand at least they listened, but on the other, it's just another in a long string of bad and poorly executed decisions since the merger.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:23 pm

OA412 wrote:
cle757 wrote:
UPDATE!!! THIS new Program has been scrapped!!...for now
flyguy84 wrote:
The new program has been scrapped... they will work with all work groups to come up with a new program.

Is there a link to this story? I searched and don't find anything. If it is indeed true that UA is scrapping this new program, presumably because of employee backlash, on the one hand at least they listened, but on the other, it's just another in a long string of bad and poorly executed decisions since the merger.


Scott Kirby sent out an email to all employees. Yes it is pn "pause" for now. (His words)
 
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OA412
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:28 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
OA412 wrote:
cle757 wrote:
UPDATE!!! THIS new Program has been scrapped!!...for now
flyguy84 wrote:
The new program has been scrapped... they will work with all work groups to come up with a new program.

Is there a link to this story? I searched and don't find anything. If it is indeed true that UA is scrapping this new program, presumably because of employee backlash, on the one hand at least they listened, but on the other, it's just another in a long string of bad and poorly executed decisions since the merger.


Scott Kirby sent out an email to all employees. Yes it is pn "pause" for now. (His words)

Ah got it. Thanks!
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B737900ER
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:38 pm

FermiParadox wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
FermiParadox wrote:

On behalf of United Airlines, I just wanted to thank you for showing up to work while you were presumably sick, and in turn getting your coworkers sick, many of whom were considerate enough to call in sick so as not to infect other coworkers.

You assume I get sick


20 years and you were 100% each and every day huh? I guess your illness is mental then, since that's clearly a delusion.

I take care of myself, live a healthy lifestyle, and wash my hands. I’m not the only person with multiple years of perfect attendance.

First time I’ve ever been criticized for not taking a sickcation
 
toxtethogrady
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:12 pm

HPRamper wrote:
So the employees that are more dependable and efficient, thus more valuable to the company, are rewarded for it. That's not a lottery. I wish FedEx would go back to merit bonuses instead of treating every employee the same, financially speaking.


If you will not win as a team, you will lose as individuals. This exact same dog-eat-dog strategy finally destroyed Sears.

Good riddance to Ayn Rand.
 
toxtethogrady
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:50 pm

And it now appears that this idea got walked back quicker than Lufthansa's new paint scheme...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companie ... ocid=ientp
 
PI4EVER
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 pm

I just read on an MSN.com/Business posting that Scott Kirby announced to employees on Monday, March 5 the incentive program will be shelved and a new program will be unveiled after they receive and review additional feedback from employee groups.
It is a good sign that Willis Tower has their ear to the employees and will listen and act.
I was unable to post the link but is being widely distributed on the internet, including a picture of a UA 747 tail as a header to the story.
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:50 pm

If anything, the "outrage" has shown that the previous program had indeed become an de facto entitlement program and has likely outlived its original purpose. That implies management is on the right track to desire a replacement.

I'll put my bet down that employees won't like the 2nd new program either.
 
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Jamake1
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:10 pm

This entire charade was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the rank and file by spinning the lottery for cash and prizes as a better incentive program. There was no employee engagement about pending changes to the program and there was absolutely no transparency by which it was introduced. Basically, the new incentive program was a way for Scott Kirby to cut costs without telling his employee stakeholders what his motivation really was for tinkering with a performance-based compensation program that yielded meaningful results.

During the reign of terror of Jeff Smisek, United had become a very unreliable operation. Stealing from the former Continental playbook, the company announced that modest monthly and quarterly bonuses would be paid to eligible employees when certain benchmarks were achieved that improved metrics such as on time rankings; baggage mishandling rankings; and certain customer satisfaction rankings. Well guess what? The rank and file rose to the occasion to deliver and United's operating metrics markedly improved. So now that the rank and file have banded together to play to win, Scott Kirby has come along and disrupted the ONE thing that is actually going really well at United Airlines (team work among employee groups and greatly improved operating metrics). The backlash was swift.
Come fly the sun.
 
mcdu
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:08 pm

OA412 wrote:
cle757 wrote:
UPDATE!!! THIS new Program has been scrapped!!...for now
flyguy84 wrote:
The new program has been scrapped... they will work with all work groups to come up with a new program.

Is there a link to this story? I searched and don't find anything. If it is indeed true that UA is scrapping this new program, presumably because of employee backlash, on the one hand at least they listened, but on the other, it's just another in a long string of bad and poorly executed decisions since the merger.


I disagree wholeheartedly. While people came to accept the bonus as a defecto payment.

It’s a bonus It’s not a union negotiated benefit and it is at the company’s discretion. Perhaps the next program is zero for everyone. I thought the chance for the large payouts were good. Those amounts could be life changing.

Making perfect attendance is also a good qualifier. It wasn’t perfect for life. Just during the award period. We used to have this when employees were given a car. It required perfect attendances.
 
T5towbar
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Re: United replacing employee bonuses with new program

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:25 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

To be fair, a 50 percent tax rate, while theoretically possible, is not close to what most employees would pay on a $100,000 bonus, especially if they live in a relatively low-tax state (or Texas, where employees will pay only federal income taxes on it).


You can look online and calculate it.
https://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/flatbonus/

I work in a company where things like bonus/profit sharing are paid out in one big check and normally a good 40%+ is eaten away in taxes.

For fun I looked at the above calculator and even in Texas a little above 30% is taken away by the tax man on such large bonus payments.

Regardless, I doubt people will be quitting their jobs particularly those with some tenure after winning the $100k


Let’s take a single person making $80,000 before bonus. The effective income tax rate on a $100,000 bonus is about 27 percent. Social security is about 3 percent (6.2 up to $128,400, zero above that). Medicare is another percent. So we are at 31 before state taxes. What’s the highest state income tax on a state with a UA hub?




I think that there has been changes in the tax code. I don't know if the new tax law kicks in as of yet, but we were told that our profit sharing payment we got last week was taxed at the rate of withholding at 22% instead of 25 to 27%. But State & Local taxes along with SS will still take their bite into it. You would figure that CA; NJ; and/or IL are higher taxed states. I know that NJ property taxes are very high, and we will be losing our SALT exemption. But that is another story.......


I just got the news about the hold on the program. And I just got selected for my "Core4" training next week. All employees must take this new training. So how will the hold on the incentive program changes this, since I understood that this incentive was part of the course.
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