Probably a case of route map updated...schedules still work in progress

WaywardMemphian wrote:

MEM/DEN, about damn time

Starts Wed Oct 3rd

M thru F
Mem - Den 10:30 to 12:00
Den - Mem 3:35 to 6:35

Sat
Mem - Den 10:45 to 12:15
Den - Mem 12:05 to 3:15

Sun
Mem - Den 10:50 to 2:00
Den - Mem 12:50 to 2:25

greenair727 wrote:

Any CLE updates?

Doesn't look like it. But I don't see any subtractions either. Encouraging to see MKE still at 2x daily.

modernArt wrote:

El Paso - Denver is on the route map. Was that previously announced?

no that's a new route. Southwest has needed to add that one for a long time.

TWA302 wrote:

Is there any reason why WN does not have any International routes out of DAL? I just booked STL-SJD and never knew this after scanning the route map.

The Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 and the 5-party agreement both prohibit nonstop international flights out of DAL. In addition, DAL does not have an international arrivals facility that would be required for nonstop international flights, and all 20 of the gates at DAL were designed solely for domestic flights.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

MEM/DEN, about damn time

Starts Wed Oct 3rd

M thru F
Mem - Den 10:30 to 12:00
Den - Mem 3:35 to 6:35

Sat
Mem - Den 10:45 to 12:15
Den - Mem 12:05 to 3:15

Sun
Mem - Den 10:50 to 2:00
Den - Mem 12:50 to 2:25

Are you sure all those times are correct. It seems like the Sunday flight times are significantly different than the other days.

jplatts wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

Is there any reason why WN does not have any International routes out of DAL? I just booked STL-SJD and never knew this after scanning the route map.

The Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 and the 5-party agreement both prohibit nonstop international flights out of DAL. In addition, DAL does not have an international arrivals facility that would be required for nonstop international flights, and all 20 of the gates at DAL were designed solely for domestic flights.

Thanks! I didn't know the reform of the WA still restricted this. Makes sense! Thanks

Anything on KISP?!? I don’t know how to search!

flydulles wrote:

Wow next schedule release not till 31 may goes through January 6 that seems like a long gap ... to me.

Not really, given they generally only keep up to 7-8 months available for sale, at most.

SeaDoo wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

MEM/DEN, about damn time

Starts Wed Oct 3rd

M thru F
Mem - Den 10:30 to 12:00
Den - Mem 3:35 to 6:35

Sat
Mem - Den 10:45 to 12:15
Den - Mem 12:05 to 3:15

Sun
Mem - Den 10:50 to 2:00
Den - Mem 12:50 to 2:25

Are you sure all those times are correct. It seems like the Sunday flight times are significantly different than the other days.

Got them reversed
Sun
Mem/Den 12:50 to 2:25
Den/Mem 10:50 to 2:00

TWA302 wrote:

gerstetm wrote:

STL get any new flights?

I don't see anything new.

I didn't see anything new but ECP keeps getting extended. It didn't run this late last year.

Balloonchaser wrote:

Anything on KISP?!? I don’t know how to search!

Nothing new. Nor I expect anything new.

So far I believe people have just been looking at the route map:
https://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html

Balloonchaser wrote:

Anything on KISP?!? I don’t know how to search!

On the local Long Island New 12 I heard SWA will start nonstop ISP-RDU. Not much detail in the new report. Does anyone know when this route will start? I have been waiting for this route..Glad to hear it will be SWA.

That's it folks, we've found them all.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... t-airlines

sspontak wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

Anything on KISP?!? I don’t know how to search!

On the local Long Island New 12 I heard SWA will start nonstop ISP-RDU. Not much detail in the new report. Does anyone know when this route will start? I have been waiting for this route..Glad to hear it will be SWA.

Same-plane service, not nonstop.

https://libn.com/2018/03/07/southwest-l ... gh-durham/

I don't believe they listed everything seasonal that starts up on 3/10.

airliner371 wrote:

That's it folks, we've found them all.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... t-airlines

sspontak wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

Anything on KISP?!? I don’t know how to search!

On the local Long Island New 12 I heard SWA will start nonstop ISP-RDU. Not much detail in the new report. Does anyone know when this route will start? I have been waiting for this route..Glad to hear it will be SWA.

Same-plane service, not nonstop.

https://libn.com/2018/03/07/southwest-l ... gh-durham/

Yes, I checked the print release and I saw the "same plane" in quotes. Thanks for the correction. This may still be a good option. Hopefully the same plane service does well enough to be upgraded to nonstop.

From what I can tell, according to the route map and the loaded skeds, SAN will see 2 fewer flights than the previous release, seasonally losing 1 MDW and a PDX freq. Total weekday departures (eff. Oct 2) will therefore be 112, which is 11 more than last year's edition! Can't complain -- no surprises (as predicted) or any real disappointments.

It does look like BWI might remain at triple-daily service year-round now, as well as AUS, while DAL appears to be holding at 4 daily flights permanently! Some other routes like MCI and BNA that have historically had seasonal reductions in the winter also seem to be holding at higher frequency levels, perhaps year-round. Nice growth at SAN for WN!

bb

Buffalo / BNIA didnt get a new route or anything .......ughhhhhh.

[url][/url]

AWACSooner wrote:

WN1196 wrote:

Southwest adds OKC-BNA

Yesssssssssssssssssss!!!!!

edit: looking at dummy bookings, I'm not seeing it...any idea when it starts?

1x weekly on sunday begining Oct 7.

jetmatt777 wrote:

1x weekly on sunday begining Oct 7.

So, just like that piddly Sat only MCO service they had a few years ago...this'll stick around just long enough for them to say "well, we tried" and pull the plug on it. I hate this G4/F9 1x weekly crap they've been pulling!

modernArt wrote:

El Paso - Denver is on the route map. Was that previously announced?

Looks like it is Sunday only just like SAN. I hope they both go to daily!

AWACSooner wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

1x weekly on sunday begining Oct 7.

So, just like that piddly Sat only MCO service they had a few years ago...this'll stick around just long enough for them to say "well, we tried" and pull the plug on it. I hate this G4/F9 1x weekly crap they've been pulling!

For the record, and not that I disagree (I don't) but the 1x weekly MCO resumes this year April-June. So that's a few seasons they have kept it. Hopefully one of these days BNA and MCO will go daily.

What, no XNA service announcement?
Wa wa waaaaaaaa

LAX is on the back end of the week day MEM/DEN giving MEM a direct, no plane change there. The week day front end of DEN/MEM starts at PDX for a direct PDX/MEM without a plane change during the week.

SteveXC500 wrote:

I don't believe they listed everything seasonal that starts up on 3/10.

You are correct. They didn't list some of them.

WN732 wrote:

modernArt wrote:

El Paso - Denver is on the route map. Was that previously announced?

Looks like it is Sunday only just like SAN. I hope they both go to daily!

Yeah, big whoop, eh? Of course in the ELP-SAN market, the only competition is currently G4 offering twice weekly and highly seasonal service (which is ridiculous.) I keep waiting and hoping for WN to increase frequency -- or for AS to jump into the market with their EMJ -- but so far, the market is certainly not served real well....

bb

southwest1675 wrote:

BNA folks are hearing OKC or PDX.

It looks like BNA-PDX is a no go...

SDF/CMH-HOU starts in Oct....finally!!!

Other adds here:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 407246002/

zakuivcustom wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

Anything on KISP?!? I don’t know how to search!

Nothing new. Nor I expect anything new.

So far I believe people have just been looking at the route map:
https://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html

That link doesn't work but this one does: https://www.southwest.com/travel_center ... p_dyn.html

Italianflyer wrote:

SDF/CMH-HOU starts in Oct....finally!!!

Other adds here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 407246002/

While WN did add SDF-HOU nonstop service, WN is unlikely to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon. There is less O&D demand to SDF from DAL today than was the case 8 years ago, and there is nowhere near enough O&D demand for WN to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon.

There was an average of 65 passengers a day who traveled between SDF and DAL back in 2010, but that number decreased to 34 passengers day in Q2 2017. Several factors have led to decreasing demand for travel between SDF and DAL, including the following:

• WN discontinuing SDF-STL nonstop service
• F9 adding CVG-DFW nonstop service right after the repeal of the Wright Amendment
• AA and DL lowering fares on CVG-DFW nonstop service
• WN's entry into CVG last year
• Fewer Cincinnati area travelers flying out of SDF

There is more O&D demand to MSP, CVG, and BDL from DFW/DAL than there is to SDF, and the O&D demand to CVG from DFW/DAL is more than double that of SDF from DFW/DAL. In addition, there is more O&D demand from DAL to MSP, JAX, CRP, BUF, CHS, PVD, RNO, RIC, CLE, BDL, EWR, and ORF than there is to SDF.

jplatts wrote:

Italianflyer wrote:

SDF/CMH-HOU starts in Oct....finally!!!

Other adds here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 407246002/

While WN did add SDF-HOU nonstop service, WN is unlikely to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon. There is less O&D demand to SDF from DAL today than was the case 8 years ago, and there is nowhere near enough O&D demand for WN to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon.

There was an average of 65 passengers a day who traveled between SDF and DAL back in 2010, but that number decreased to 34 passengers day in Q2 2017. Several factors have led to decreasing demand for travel between SDF and DAL, including the following:

• WN discontinuing SDF-STL nonstop service
• F9 adding CVG-DFW nonstop service right after the repeal of the Wright Amendment
• AA and DL lowering fares on CVG-DFW nonstop service
• WN's entry into CVG last year
• Fewer Cincinnati area travelers flying out of SDF

There is more O&D demand to MSP, CVG, and BDL from DFW/DAL than there is to SDF, and the O&D demand to CVG from DFW/DAL is more than double that of SDF from DFW/DAL. In addition, there is more O&D demand from DAL to MSP, JAX, CRP, BUF, CHS, PVD, RNO, RIC, CLE, BDL, EWR, and ORF than there is to SDF.

So who was asking about DAL-SDF???? Too much answer for no question.
I am somewhat amazed that there is no DAL-MSP n/s yet though.

OKC-BNA is a Sunday only flight.

cvgComair wrote:

Let's hope the growth at CVG continues! I am hoping they make PHX year round, plus perhaps another destination. I know I may trigger an enthusiastic response from a certain user , but WN identified that Texas, Southeast, and the Northwest are the regions to be targeted from CVG.

None of the Texas stations seem likely, perhaps HOU now that F9 dropped the route, but DAL/AUS are too crowded IMO. The Southeast makes more sense as ATL/MCO/RSW/TPA/FLL all have a lot of demand. For the Northwest, I honestly have no clue, BOS seems like too big of a gamble for WN against DL, but you never know. MDW/BWI/DEN/PHX were the pretty obvious choices, but this is where it will get interesting...

While it would be nice to see WN grow at CVG.....think that growth will take time and be incremental. WN needs to create a base of fliers in the market. Am sure there are lots of DL FF in the area and that will make it tough for WN to compete on any route that DL also flies...particularly the long hauls....even those that require a connection.

mtnwest1979 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Italianflyer wrote:

SDF/CMH-HOU starts in Oct....finally!!!

Other adds here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 407246002/

While WN did add SDF-HOU nonstop service, WN is unlikely to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon. There is less O&D demand to SDF from DAL today than was the case 8 years ago, and there is nowhere near enough O&D demand for WN to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon.

There was an average of 65 passengers a day who traveled between SDF and DAL back in 2010, but that number decreased to 34 passengers day in Q2 2017. Several factors have led to decreasing demand for travel between SDF and DAL, including the following:

• WN discontinuing SDF-STL nonstop service
• F9 adding CVG-DFW nonstop service right after the repeal of the Wright Amendment
• AA and DL lowering fares on CVG-DFW nonstop service
• WN's entry into CVG last year
• Fewer Cincinnati area travelers flying out of SDF

There is more O&D demand to MSP, CVG, and BDL from DFW/DAL than there is to SDF, and the O&D demand to CVG from DFW/DAL is more than double that of SDF from DFW/DAL. In addition, there is more O&D demand from DAL to MSP, JAX, CRP, BUF, CHS, PVD, RNO, RIC, CLE, BDL, EWR, and ORF than there is to SDF.

So who was asking about DAL-SDF???? Too much answer for no question.
I am somewhat amazed that there is no DAL-MSP n/s yet though.

You neglected to mention AA has 5 daily nonstops SDF-DFW as a reason for declining SDF-DAL. The Wright Amendment has nothing to do with DFW.

Italianflyer wrote:

SDF/CMH-HOU starts in Oct....finally!!!

Other adds here:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 407246002/

Glad to see WN add SDF service. Maybe it is the start of a trend. Would LUV to see WN begin Focus city ops at SDF. Think their focus city ops in STL, BNA and lesser degree IND, CMH might begin to slow...otherwise the focus becomes more hub-like and that is not WN's model.

Bluegrass60 wrote:

Italianflyer wrote:

SDF/CMH-HOU starts in Oct....finally!!!

Other adds here:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 407246002/

Glad to see WN add SDF service. Maybe it is the start of a trend. Would LUV to see WN begin Focus city ops at SDF. Think their focus city ops in STL, BNA and lesser degree IND, CMH might begin to slow...otherwise the focus becomes more hub-like and that is not WN's model.

I share the same thoughts on MEM. There's a few holes from MEM. Small things I know, but destinations like Greenville, Wichita, Reno, Pensacola and Des Moines aren't bookable at times.
Would like to see them add BNA or ATL, STL, MSY, FLL, LAS or PHX and OAK

mtnwest1979 wrote:

I am somewhat amazed that there is no DAL-MSP n/s yet though.

Technically, they are flying this route, Sundays ONLY, 6/10-8/5

jplatts wrote:

Italianflyer wrote:

SDF/CMH-HOU starts in Oct....finally!!!

Other adds here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 407246002/

While WN did add SDF-HOU nonstop service, WN is unlikely to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon. There is less O&D demand to SDF from DAL today than was the case 8 years ago, and there is nowhere near enough O&D demand for WN to add SDF-DAL nonstop service anytime soon.

There was an average of 65 passengers a day who traveled between SDF and DAL back in 2010, but that number decreased to 34 passengers day in Q2 2017. Several factors have led to decreasing demand for travel between SDF and DAL, including the following:

• WN discontinuing SDF-STL nonstop service
• F9 adding CVG-DFW nonstop service right after the repeal of the Wright Amendment
• AA and DL lowering fares on CVG-DFW nonstop service
• WN's entry into CVG last year
• Fewer Cincinnati area travelers flying out of SDF

There is more O&D demand to MSP, CVG, and BDL from DFW/DAL than there is to SDF, and the O&D demand to CVG from DFW/DAL is more than double that of SDF from DFW/DAL. In addition, there is more O&D demand from DAL to MSP, JAX, CRP, BUF, CHS, PVD, RNO, RIC, CLE, BDL, EWR, and ORF than there is to SDF.

There may be more demand to the Dallas area from MSP than SDF, but there is far more competition to the entire Dallas area from DL, AA, SY, and NK. I assume this is why WN is staying away.

SteveXC500 wrote:

There may be more demand to the Dallas area from MSP than SDF, but there is far more competition to the entire Dallas area from DL, AA, SY, and NK. I assume this is why WN is staying away.

There is probably enough demand for WN to do daily year-round nonstop service to DAL from MSP, and WN is able to successfully compete against DL on DAL-LAX, DAL-SLC, DAL-DTW, DAL-ATL, and DAL-LGA nonstop service. There is more O&D demand to MSP from DFW/DAL than there is to DTW and SLC from DFW/DAL. NK also already serves LAX, DTW, ATL, and LGA nonstop from DFW.

There are only 15 destinations that have more O&D demand from DFW/DAL than MSP does, including LAX, LGA, ATL, ORD, DEN, LAS, MCO, SFO, PHX, DCA, BOS, HOU, SEA, SAN, and PHL, but WN already serves 14 of these 15 destinations nonstop from DAL. ORD is the only destination with more O&D demand from DFW/DAL than MSP that isn't already served nonstop from DAL, but WN does have nonstop service to MDW from DAL.

Demand for WN service to DAL from MSP might increase with SY moving to a ULCC business model, and WN is not unwilling to go head-to-head with AA, DL, or NK on nonstop service to DL hub airports out of DAL. WN would also be able to connect passengers to smaller Texas markets not served by DL, NK, or SY (such as AMA, LBB, and MAF) through DAL from MSP if it adds daily year-round nonstop service to MSP from DAL. SY also does not have the brand recognition that AA, DL, WN, or NK do in the DFW Metroplex, despite SY serving more than just MSP nonstop from DFW.

WN has been able to fly beyond the WA restrictions, on DAL-MSP, for how long now? And they still haven’t made it a yet-round route. Something tells me there is a reason for that. Your analysis is nice, jplatts, but if WN won’t sustain LAS-MSP, I just can’t see them with much for DAL-MSP yet.

SteveXC500 wrote:

WN has been able to fly beyond the WA restrictions, on DAL-MSP, for how long now? And they still haven’t made it a yet-round route. Something tells me there is a reason for that. Your analysis is nice, jplatts, but if WN won’t sustain LAS-MSP, I just can’t see them with much for DAL-MSP yet.

Southwest Airlines has recently stated that it wants to expand at LAS, and MSP, LGB, CRP, and HRL are the only WN stations in the contiguous U.S. west of the Mississippi that do not have year-round daily nonstop service to LAS on WN. WN could extend MSP-LAS nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service since WN has plans to further expand at LAS and since MSP is located in the 3rd largest U.S. metro area that doesn't have year-round daily nonstop service to LAS on WN.

jplatts wrote:

SteveXC500 wrote:

WN has been able to fly beyond the WA restrictions, on DAL-MSP, for how long now? And they still haven’t made it a yet-round route. Something tells me there is a reason for that. Your analysis is nice, jplatts, but if WN won’t sustain LAS-MSP, I just can’t see them with much for DAL-MSP yet.

Southwest Airlines has recently stated that it wants to expand at LAS, and MSP, LGB, CRP, and HRL are the only WN stations in the contiguous U.S. west of the Mississippi that do not have year-round daily nonstop service to LAS on WN. WN could extend MSP-LAS nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service since WN has plans to further expand at LAS and since MSP is located in the 3rd largest U.S. metro area that doesn't have year-round daily nonstop service to LAS on WN.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but WN doesn't exactly have a lot of gate space to work with at MSP to restore a daily, year-round MSP-DAL service, or, for that matter, MSP-LAS. Unless SY is planning on dropping a gate or two at MSP's T2...

jplatts wrote:

MSP is located in the 3rd largest U.S. metro area that doesn't have year-round daily nonstop service to LAS on WN.

Interesting. What are the larger two?

ctrabs0114 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

SteveXC500 wrote:

WN has been able to fly beyond the WA restrictions, on DAL-MSP, for how long now? And they still haven’t made it a yet-round route. Something tells me there is a reason for that. Your analysis is nice, jplatts, but if WN won’t sustain LAS-MSP, I just can’t see them with much for DAL-MSP yet.

Southwest Airlines has recently stated that it wants to expand at LAS, and MSP, LGB, CRP, and HRL are the only WN stations in the contiguous U.S. west of the Mississippi that do not have year-round daily nonstop service to LAS on WN. WN could extend MSP-LAS nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service since WN has plans to further expand at LAS and since MSP is located in the 3rd largest U.S. metro area that doesn't have year-round daily nonstop service to LAS on WN.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but WN doesn't exactly have a lot of gate space to work with at MSP to restore a daily, year-round MSP-DAL service, or, for that matter, MSP-LAS. Unless SY is planning on dropping a gate or two at MSP's T2...

Correct. They have access to 4-5 gates, basically for themselves. There are periods during the day where the place is completely empty, so it is "possible" to add a few more flights, but they are fairly maxed out right now.

WN must be seeing some decent success with their Sunday-only flights. That still seems kind of odd to me - who are these Sunday flights targeting? I'd imagine there are a decent number of corporate travelers who would head out on Sunday afternoon for a business trip, but they would probably want to fly back on Thursday or Friday at the latest. I suppose the Sunday flights would be for people looking to take a week-long vacation somewhere?

FSDan wrote:

WN must be seeing some decent success with their Sunday-only flights. That still seems kind of odd to me - who are these Sunday flights targeting? I'd imagine there are a decent number of corporate travelers who would head out on Sunday afternoon for a business trip, but they would probably want to fly back on Thursday or Friday at the latest. I suppose the Sunday flights would be for people looking to take a week-long vacation somewhere?

They also probably run less Sunday routes than week day so they have extra planes on the ground. Better to use them for a Sunday only route than let them sit. If that means someone only gets a non stop one leg of the trip that is better than no nonstop at all.