miaintl
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Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:24 pm

I am just curious to know where Pan Am flew internationally from MIA. Where did they send their 747’s? Europe? Deep South America?
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:29 pm

Well, I flew Pan Am Boeing 747 from Miami International to London Heathrow back in 1990
 
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OA260
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:38 pm

MIA-FRA and MIA-GIG were B747 routes. South America routes were mostly A310/B727 operated.Based on 1990 operations.
 
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ClipperYankee
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:42 pm

My sister flew MIA-EZE-SCL on a 742 which I always envied as the largest PA airliner I ever flew on was a 707-300. So there is one route for you.
707/717/727/737-100,200,300,400,500,700,800/747-200,300,400/757-200,300/767-300,400
772/788&9/DC3/DC6/DC8/DC9/DC10/MD80s/L1011/A300/A319,320,321/A332&3/A343/A359/A388/
BAE146/ATP/ATR42/DHC2,3,7,8/S340B/CRJ200,700,900/E140,145,175,190/F70,100/B1900
 
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OA260
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:49 pm

MIA-CCS was a mix of B747 and A300.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:53 pm

PAN AM flew MIA-CCS Daily with a 747. Eventually they changed to an Airbus 310.
I believe they also flew MIA-MARACAIBO albeit on a 727.
 
msiebert09
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:25 pm

Check out departedflights.com for a real good source of route maps, etc.
 
TWA85
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Here's a good article that discusses Pan Am's operations in Florida over the years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theflorida ... orida/amp/
 
miaintl
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:31 am

Did AA take over the routes to CDG, FRA, and LHR after 1991? I think UA took over some international routes after 1991.
 
afcjets
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:12 am

miaintl wrote:
Where did they send their 747’s? Europe? Deep South America?


Yes, and also JFK and LAX.
 
dcajet
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:13 am

1987/88: at EZE. PA operated the following flights:

PA453/4 MIA-EZE-SCL-EZE-MIA B747
PA201/202 JFK-GIG-EZE-GIG-JFK (once a week it stopped at MVD on the way back to GIG) B747
PA2XX/X EZE-JFK-EZE (left EZE of Fridays, left JFK on Saturdays) B747
PAXXX/XXX LAX-GYE-SCL-EZE-SCL-GYE-LAX (arrived to EZE on Fridays, left for LAX on Sundays, using plane that went to JFK) 747

For the most part, all 747s used where the 747-122 that Pan Am had obtained from United with the sale of the Asia routes. These differed from the 747-121 in that they were Premium (First & Clipper classes) heavy. They also had 10 windows on the upper deck. Some of their Clipper names that come to mind are: Clipper Witch of the Wave, Clipper Nautilus, Clipper Neptune's Car, Clipper Beacon Light....

All flights in/out of EZE were operated by the MIA base crews.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
superjeff
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:54 am

Pan Am was traditionally the unofficial U.S. flag carrier to the East Coast of South America. Its former 50% owned affiliate, covered the West Coast of South America until they sold it to Braniff in 1967. Pan Am flew South of Miami to Panama, Rio, Sao Paolo, Buenos Aires, and Montevideo, among other destinations. In the Caribbean, they flew to places like Jamaica until the early 1980's
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:15 am

Did PanAm fly MIA-LGW at any date before stopping operations?
Or it was Eastern?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Kadish
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:52 am

Did PanAm to Spain?
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:46 am

From the October 27, 1991 timetable:

PA134 MIA-CDG
PA441 MIA-GIG-GRU and MIA-GRU-GIG
PA443 MIA-CCS-REC
PA451 MIA-GRU-GIG
PA453 MIA-EZE-SCL

Interestingly, PA was still flying from JFK to GRU & GIG nonstop.
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:49 am

Kadish wrote:
Did PanAm to Spain?


They only flew JFK-MAD.
 
Kadish
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:05 pm

It has just came to my mind tha accident in los Rodeos . It was a Klm n a PanAm, no?
What was doing there that PanAm?
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:13 pm

dcajet wrote:
1987/88: at EZE. PA operated the following flights:

PA453/4 MIA-EZE-SCL-EZE-MIA B747
PA201/202 JFK-GIG-EZE-GIG-JFK (once a week it stopped at MVD on the way back to GIG) B747
PA2XX/X EZE-JFK-EZE (left EZE of Fridays, left JFK on Saturdays) B747
PAXXX/XXX LAX-GYE-SCL-EZE-SCL-GYE-LAX (arrived to EZE on Fridays, left for LAX on Sundays, using plane that went to JFK) 747

For the most part, all 747s used where the 747-122 that Pan Am had obtained from United with the sale of the Asia routes. These differed from the 747-121 in that they were Premium (First & Clipper classes) heavy. They also had 10 windows on the upper deck. Some of their Clipper names that come to mind are: Clipper Witch of the Wave, Clipper Nautilus, Clipper Neptune's Car, Clipper Beacon Light....

All flights in/out of EZE were operated by the MIA base crews.


Clipper Beacon Light was a 747-123, N9674.

The seven aircraft sub-fleet configured 40/48/259 for South America consisted of five 747-122s, as well as two 747-123s, which were the former AA 747s acquired in the equipment swap which saw the majority of Pan Am (former National) DC-10s go to AA.

The other 747-123 was N9670, Empress of the Skies.

The 747-123s, as well as the -122s, featured lower lobe galleys, which were problematic due to, among other things, lift; oven and incompatibility issues.
 
jfk777
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:50 pm

Pan AM's MIA 747 operation was based on London, Rio, Buenos Aires and LAX( extension of MIA to GIG flight) nonstop from Miami. Santiago was an extension of .EZE. CDG & FRA were flown at certain times but not consistently.
 
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OA260
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:56 pm

Here is a route map from the October 1990 timetable

Image


And the routing for the MIA-CCS route.

Image
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:21 pm

miaintl wrote:
I am just curious to know where Pan Am flew internationally from MIA. Where did they send their 747’s? Europe? Deep South America?


Heathrow, Paris, Frankfurt, Rio (Sao Paulo was highly restricted then and PA never had a nonstop MIA-GRU or MIA-VCP), Buenos Aires, Santiago (usually a tag-on) and every now and then JFK, Los Angeles and San Francisco in terms of 747's.

Paris and Frankfurt were discontinued as nonstops from Miami in October 1982 when Florida and Houston flying in general was slashed by Ed Acker for an increased focus on JFK. They were restored in 1986 but neither flight was ever daily again.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:26 pm

Kadish wrote:
It has just came to my mind tha accident in los Rodeos . It was a Klm n a PanAm, no?
What was doing there that PanAm?


It was a charter flight.
 
xtra1
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:38 pm

Remember flying a Pan Am 747 from London Heathrow to Miami; then changing to a Provincetown-Boston Airlines DC-3, to Key West.
 
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N717TW
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:25 pm

Pan Am's MIA operations during the 80s were mostly 747s (Deep South America, Europe); A300s (LAX/JFK/Caribbean) and 727s (domestic, Central America and Caribbean). There are plenty of exceptions, especially on seasonal service where 747s were added for demand, such as CCS and SDQ and I'm pretty sure there was a A300 turn to MCO in the morning in '87 and '88. The A310s were mostly running TATL from JFK (plus DTW-LHR and IAD-CDG) as early 310s didn't have the legs for MIA flights although I'm pretty sure they opened MIA-SCL on a 310.

PA listed the 742 as the "South American" configuration in the timetable seat map, although I flew one of them from JFK to SNN in '88 (so not sure how true that listing was). PA was also opening a lot of tags through Rio and there was an odd rule in 80s that didn't allow people to connect in Brazil to Chile...which is why the EZE-SCL tag came off both the MIA-EZE and LAX-SCL routes; I'm not sure if that was a Brazil rule, a Chile rule or some odd negotiation with the US bilateral.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:23 pm

Should point out one or two summers Pan Am did fly from Frankfurt to Tampa twice a week. Flight continued to Miami.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

The MIA-LHR route was a remnant of the National Airlines acquisition.
 
airlinermiami
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:49 pm

Panam had quite a big operation out of CCS....
MIA-CCS was two daily flights on 747 ( one early morning and one mid-afternoon departure)
Panam also flew daily to CCS-JFK on DC10
Daily CCS-SJU 727
4 x week CCS-LAX on L1011
4 x week CCS-RIO on L1011
 
dcajet
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:05 pm

N717TW wrote:
I'm pretty sure they opened MIA-SCL on a 310.

PA listed the 742 as the "South American" configuration in the timetable seat map, although I flew one of them from JFK to SNN in '88 (so not sure how true that listing was). PA was also opening a lot of tags through Rio and there was an odd rule in 80s that didn't allow people to connect in Brazil to Chile...which is why the EZE-SCL tag came off both the MIA-EZE and LAX-SCL routes; I'm not sure if that was a Brazil rule, a Chile rule or some odd negotiation with the US bilateral.


Yes, you are correct. In 1991, right before its demise, PA operated a non stop MIA-SCL-MIA run with the A310-300. In 1991 the demand out of Argentina was very strong, so Pan Am stopped flying the EZE-SCL tag and the PA453/4 747 MIA service ended at EZE. Pan Am had full fifth freedoms on all of its South American routes.

PA was late entrant into the Chilean market. It only started flying to SCL from MIA via EZE in 1984. Up to then, SCL was Braniff/Eastern territory. Flights first started with the L1011, then 747 and finally, the A310-300 that operated non stop from MIA for a few months before the airline was shut down.

Pan Am's last ever service to Buenos Aires was operated by N747PA, Clipper Juan J Trippe on Dec. 4, 1991.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:20 pm

dcajet wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Pan Am's last ever service to Buenos Aires was operated by N747PA, Clipper Juan J Trippe on Dec. 4, 1991.


And it ferried back to JFK that same day, as chronicled once by John A Marshall in Airways, since he was the captain of that flight.
 
panamair
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:09 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Did PanAm fly MIA-LGW at any date before stopping operations?
Or it was Eastern?


Yes, Pan Am did fly MIA-LGW with a 747 for a short period in 1991 after the LHR operation was sold to UA. PA continued flying to London via LGW but only from MIA and DTW. Later in 1991, both those LGW flights were taken over by DL.
 
doulasc
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:19 am

Ionosphere wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Did PanAm to Spain?


They only flew JFK-MAD.

Pan Am flew MIA-SJU-LIS-MAD-FCO through the Mid 1970s.In 1979-1980 a timetable showed Pan Am operated MIA-MAD non stop with a 707.
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:44 am

Kadish wrote:
It has just came to my mind tha accident in los Rodeos . It was a Klm n a PanAm, no?
What was doing there that PanAm?


It was a charter flight from LAX to Las Palmas via JFK. They diverted to Tenerife after a bomb scare at the Las Palmas Airport. The passengers were boarding a Med cruise in Las Palmas.
 
xdlx
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Fri May 11, 2018 11:30 pm

doulasc wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Did PanAm to Spain?


They only flew JFK-MAD.

Pan Am flew MIA-SJU-LIS-MAD-FCO through the Mid 1970s.In 1979-1980 a timetable showed Pan Am operated MIA-MAD non stop with a 707.


My Dad a pilot for PQ ( PRINAIR ) in SJU took me on the SJU-LIS-MAD around mid 70's.
 
chrisjake
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Fri May 11, 2018 11:59 pm

I recall flights 440/441 was a 747 that did LAX-MIA-GIG and back around 1990/91. Back then I regularly flew Pan Am between Miami and Cleveland and the CLE-MIA leg would arrive MIA at night and we'd park next to 440 more often than not.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sat May 12, 2018 1:48 am

In 1982, I was doing ministry work with teens at a church in South Alabama. There was to be an international youth conference in Buenos Aires, and I was putting together a group trip to the conference. Teens and their chaperons from several other churches would go with us to make up the group. The tour operator that I worked with had us leaving MIA aboard a Pan Am Boeing 747, direct to Buenos Aires-Ezeiza with one stop, at Rio de Janeiro-Galeao. Following the conference, our return to Miami would be nonstop EZE-MIA aboard a Pan Am Lockheed L-1011 TriStar.

Then, the Falklands War broke out, and that put a stop to everything--our trip, and the conference itself ! ! !
"Your talents may take you where your character can not keep you." - Terry Nelson
 
rbavfan
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sat May 12, 2018 1:54 am

OA260 wrote:
MIA-CCS was a mix of B747 and A300.


A310 Pan Am did not have A300.
 
OB1504
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sat May 12, 2018 2:10 am

rbavfan wrote:
OA260 wrote:
MIA-CCS was a mix of B747 and A300.


A310 Pan Am did not have A300.


Pan Am did fly the A300 and they were primarily used out of Miami.

 
superjeff
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sat May 12, 2018 2:19 am

miaintl wrote:
Did AA take over the routes to CDG, FRA, and LHR after 1991? I think UA took over some international routes after 1991.


United picked up Pan Am's South American routes when they shut down in 1991. (American got Eastern's routes, which originally were Braniff's). They maintained a hub in Miami for a couple of years, flying primarily down the East Coast of South America (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, etc.) The London route from Miami was acquired from National when Pan Am bought National in 1987. I don't recall Pan Am flying MIA-FRA or MIA-CDG, although particularly Frankfurt would have been logical as Pan Am had a hub there. Paris was more of a TWA stronghold.
 
superjeff
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sat May 12, 2018 2:22 am

Kadish wrote:
It has just came to my mind tha accident in los Rodeos . It was a Klm n a PanAm, no?
What was doing there that PanAm?


Both the PAN AM and KLM airplanes were charters, diverted to Tenerife due to a bombing scare at their original destination. I don't think either airline flew into Tenerife on a regular basis.
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sat May 12, 2018 10:01 am

Pan Am rescheduled their routings quite frequently. If I remember correctly the main 747 routes out of MIA by the end were:
- Rio - Sao Paulo or Sao Paulo - Rio depending on the day of the week (some days both ran)
- Buenos Aires

I can't remember if the tags onto Montevideo and Santiago were out of Miami or JFK. Over the years there were direct Santiago flights and Sao Paulo was often served via Bueno Aires.

London was a 747 route too. At various times Frankfurt and Paris were served too.

Earlier on the L1011s spent quite a lot of time down there and for a short while before being sold to Delta the A310s too.
 
Cunard
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sun May 13, 2018 3:33 pm

superjeff wrote:
miaintl wrote:
Did AA take over the routes to CDG, FRA, and LHR after 1991? I think UA took over some international routes after 1991.


United picked up Pan Am's South American routes when they shut down in 1991. (American got Eastern's routes, which originally were Braniff's). They maintained a hub in Miami for a couple of years, flying primarily down the East Coast of South America (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, etc.) The London route from Miami was acquired from National when Pan Am bought National in 1987. I don't recall Pan Am flying MIA-FRA or MIA-CDG, although particularly Frankfurt would have been logical as Pan Am had a hub there. Paris was more of a TWA stronghold.


Pan Am bought National in 1980 not 1987.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Cunard
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Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sun May 13, 2018 3:42 pm

panamair wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Did PanAm fly MIA-LGW at any date before stopping operations?
Or it was Eastern?


Yes, Pan Am did fly MIA-LGW with a 747 for a short period in 1991 after the LHR operation was sold to UA. PA continued flying to London via LGW but only from MIA and DTW. Later in 1991, both those LGW flights were taken over by DL.


Eastern ceased MIA to LGW in 1986 after only about 18 months of operations, prior to that MIA to LGW was operated by Air Florida which started in May 1980.

MIA to LGW then went to Continental in 1987.

Pan Am operated MIA to LGW from 1991 after the airline and it's two routes not included in the United deal we're both transferred to LGW along with DTW from LHR after United acquired the remaining Pan Am network at LHR that didn't include Miami and Detroit.

Delta acquired many of the Pan Am routes after the collapse of Pan Am which saw them taking over the routes from MIA and DTW to LGW.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2509
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Sun May 13, 2018 4:30 pm

rbavfan wrote:
OA260 wrote:
MIA-CCS was a mix of B747 and A300.


A310 Pan Am did not have A300.


As already proven by the accompanying photo Pan Am operated a total of 21 A300.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1270
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon May 14, 2018 12:33 am

Cunard wrote:
superjeff wrote:
miaintl wrote:
Did AA take over the routes to CDG, FRA, and LHR after 1991? I think UA took over some international routes after 1991.


United picked up Pan Am's South American routes when they shut down in 1991. (American got Eastern's routes, which originally were Braniff's). They maintained a hub in Miami for a couple of years, flying primarily down the East Coast of South America (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, etc.) The London route from Miami was acquired from National when Pan Am bought National in 1987. I don't recall Pan Am flying MIA-FRA or MIA-CDG, although particularly Frankfurt would have been logical as Pan Am had a hub there. Paris was more of a TWA stronghold.


Pan Am bought National in 1980 not 1987.


You are correct, Cunard. Not sure if it was a typo or if I just am getting too old :-)
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: Pan am long haul operations from Miami 1980-1991

Mon May 14, 2018 11:01 am

superjeff wrote:
miaintl wrote:
Did AA take over the routes to CDG, FRA, and LHR after 1991? I think UA took over some international routes after 1991.


United picked up Pan Am's South American routes when they shut down in 1991. (American got Eastern's routes, which originally were Braniff's). They maintained a hub in Miami for a couple of years, flying primarily down the East Coast of South America (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, etc.) The London route from Miami was acquired from National when Pan Am bought National in 1987. I don't recall Pan Am flying MIA-FRA or MIA-CDG, although particularly Frankfurt would have been logical as Pan Am had a hub there. Paris was more of a TWA stronghold.


MIA-CDG was actually Pan Am's only remaining Trans Atlantic flight when they shut down.

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