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Kden95
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Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:27 pm

As the title implies, will we see Delta 737-800s with the split scimitar winglets. Sorry if this has been brought already.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:55 pm

Considering how long it took them to equip them with BLENDED winglets (and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet), I highly doubt it.
 
N415XJ
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:15 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
(and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet)

They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:28 pm

N415XJ wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
(and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet)

They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.


There is are certain versions of Delta's 757-200s that does not included winglets at all. I believe they are the 75P models they have.
Flew on:
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ilovelamp
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:37 pm

Kden95 wrote:
As the title implies, will we see Delta 737-800s with the split scimitar winglets. Sorry if this has been brought already.


No plans to do so thus far.
 
PanAm788
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:40 pm

N415XJ wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
(and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet)

They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.

All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.
 
FSDan
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:47 pm

Going by the DL fleet updates thread, there are something like 17 752s that don't have winglets.
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PanAm788
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:03 pm

FSDan wrote:
Going by the DL fleet updates thread, there are something like 17 752s that don't have winglets.

You’re right. Definitely more than two. I do remember something about some frames not being able to have winglets due to previous maintenance. Not sure if that’s the case for all of them.
 
4engines4lnghll
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:55 pm

PanAm788 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
(and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet)

They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.

All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.


Does anyone know which routes these non-winglet 757s fly? It may sound strange but I’d love to fly on one. Can’t remember the last time I flew a narrowbody without winglets
4engines4lnghll
 
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seahawks7757
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:06 pm

4engines4lnghll wrote:
PanAm788 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.

All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.


Does anyone know which routes these non-winglet 757s fly? It may sound strange but I’d love to fly on one. Can’t remember the last time I flew a narrowbody without winglets



No certain routes. It’s treated like any other 757.
 
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seahawks7757
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:08 pm

4engines4lnghll wrote:
PanAm788 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.

All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.


Does anyone know which routes these non-winglet 757s fly? It may sound strange but I’d love to fly on one. Can’t remember the last time I flew a narrowbody without winglets


No certain routes. It’s treated like any other 757
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:25 pm

Logically if the 738s don't have them by now, they never will. But airlines don't always work that way. If fuel goes up, you might see them installed.

By my latest count, there's 16 752s (discounting the charter 75Cs) without winglets. It's random chance. The last two 757 flights I've been on were without winglets.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:43 pm

There was a Delta 757 without winglets in SYR for a charter back in October, N683DA
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
Airventure737
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:52 pm

The 757s used for NBA charters do not have winglets. I'm not sure how many are in this configuration though.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:20 pm

Airventure737 wrote:
The 757s used for NBA charters do not have winglets. I'm not sure how many are in this configuration though.


Delta has 11 757-200s in the charter config, 75C. It does not count them among its active fleet in the 10K filings.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:29 pm

seahawks7757 wrote:
4engines4lnghll wrote:
PanAm788 wrote:
All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.


Does anyone know which routes these non-winglet 757s fly? It may sound strange but I’d love to fly on one. Can’t remember the last time I flew a narrowbody without winglets



No certain routes. It’s treated like any other 757.

N668DN 668 Entered Sept 12, 2017; finished Nov 8, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N670DN 670 Entered Dec 6, 2016; finished Jan 22, 2017 @MSP. 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N671DN 671 Entered Nov 21, 2016; finished Jan 5, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N673DL 673 Entered Feb 15, 2017; finished March 28, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets). No SAT TV as of 9-25-17.
N674DL 674 Entered Jan 24, 2017; finished March 1, 2017 @MSP 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N675DL 675 Entered March 4, 2017; finished April 10, 2017 @MSP 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N676DL 676 Entered April 4, 2017; finished May 30, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N678DL 678 Entered Feb 26, 2017; finished April 11, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N679DA 679 Entered April 11, 2017; finished May 17, 2017 @IND. 2Ku WiFi. (No winglets).
N680DA 680 Entered Sept 6, 2016; finished Oct 30, 2016 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N681DA 681 Entered Jan 4, 2017; finished Feb 15, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N682DA 682 Entered April 11, 2017; finished May 23, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N683DA 683 Entered April 15, 2017; finished May 31, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N684DA 684 Entered Dec 6, 2016; finished Jan 24, 2017 @IND 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N697DL 697 Entered Dec 28, 2015; finished Feb 16, 2016 @SAT 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N698DL 698 Entered Feb 13, 2016; finished March 30, 2016 @SAT 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).
N6716C 6716 Entered Nov 3, 2015; finished Dec 23, 2015 @ATL 2Ku WiFi (No winglets).

That's a cut and paste from a FlyerTalk 757 update thread. What these have in common is that they're all the domestic F, no ETOPS config.

So, trying to extend DL's logic for 757s, I'll guess the answer to the OP's question is no, not all 738s will get split scimitars. There's some finance function of frame age, fuel price, capital hurdle rate, and stage length at the root of this.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:15 pm

A seemingly random portion of Delta's 737-900ER fleet has them, but AFAIK no -700s or -800s.
Slightly off topic, but it is almost entirely doubtful their 757s will feature the scimitar winglets, which I have seen only on FI and UA aircraft.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL, FFT | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:38 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
Considering how long it took them to equip them with BLENDED winglets (and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet), I highly doubt it.

The 757s without winglets wont get them. They are older frames and fuel prices don't give the ROI for the work to be done.

Kden95 wrote:
As the title implies, will we see Delta 737-800s with the split scimitar winglets. Sorry if this has been brought already.

not unless fuel goes up again. ROI isn't there.

Last I heard the company is looking at putting the pivot bins on the 737/757s that do not have them. (I think its the 75H and 753 fleets)

but any mod project wont be done till all the current work is finished.
Narfish641 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
(and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet)

They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.


There is are certain versions of Delta's 757-200s that does not included winglets at all. I believe they are the 75P models they have.

any 75 without winglets are 75Ds.
PanAm788 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
(and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet)

They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.

All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.

There is one 757 that can't have winglets due to a repair from some wing damage.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:48 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
Kden95 wrote:
As the title implies, will we see Delta 737-800s with the split scimitar winglets. Sorry if this has been brought already.


Someone told me this a couple of months ago. The reason why many 737NGs don't have the splits are because of the fuel prices. When they are this good they do not need splits even though they help save fuel. But in my honest opinion, with that dumb tax break pull that the Georgia legislation did, I do have a feeling they might be added to the -800s or -700s, but then again that's just me thinking. I don't think it's gonna do damage.

You are talking about spending dollars to save cents.

1) Delta is already paying the jet fuel tax. The tax break would have been a new benefit.
2) more importantly 40M is nothing compared to the billions Delta pays in fuel. The lack of the jet fuel tax break is not going to cause modifications to the fleet. If it was worth it it would have been done already. (because again, Delta is already paying. Would have been a new benefit)



FWIW the only people making any kind of big deal about all that is anet and the media.......
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:16 pm

seahawks7757 wrote:
4engines4lnghll wrote:
PanAm788 wrote:
All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.


Does anyone know which routes these non-winglet 757s fly? It may sound strange but I’d love to fly on one. Can’t remember the last time I flew a narrowbody without winglets



No certain routes. It’s treated like any other 757.


Except for the Delta One-equipped frames. Now, as for the issue at hand, many of those 737s are approaching 17-18 years in service and so I don’t see them being equipped and I wouldn’t be surprised to see A21Ns replace them.
 
ilovelamp
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:00 am

BWIAirport wrote:
A seemingly random portion of Delta's 737-900ER fleet has them, but AFAIK no -700s or -800s.


Yes, no 700 or 800s have them. If memory serves, the 900s started getting them at ship number 3831 or so and the plan is convert 3800-30 at point soon.
 
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neomax
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:38 am

What kind of maintenance prevents 757's from getting winglets?
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:21 am

neomax wrote:
What kind of maintenance prevents 757's from getting winglets?

The 757 in question had wing damage that had been repaired years earlier.

I can't remember the exact details but engineering ran the numbers and decided (IIRC with Boeing's input) that that frame couldn't take winglets. Stress/weight would have been too much.
 
716131
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:39 am

Nope, do their -700 has split as well?
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aeromoe
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:51 am

deltal1011man wrote:
neomax wrote:
What kind of maintenance prevents 757's from getting winglets?

The 757 in question had wing damage that had been repaired years earlier.

I can't remember the exact details but engineering ran the numbers and decided (IIRC with Boeing's input) that that frame couldn't take winglets. Stress/weight would have been too much.


Forgive my ignorance but I'm wondering why stress/weight of winglets added would be "too much?" However, fuel, passengers, baggage and the potential for some stressing during some unexpected flight maneuvers/turbulence would be OK? Curious.
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deltal1011man
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:05 am

aeromoe wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
neomax wrote:
What kind of maintenance prevents 757's from getting winglets?

The 757 in question had wing damage that had been repaired years earlier.

I can't remember the exact details but engineering ran the numbers and decided (IIRC with Boeing's input) that that frame couldn't take winglets. Stress/weight would have been too much.


Forgive my ignorance but I'm wondering why stress/weight of winglets added would be "too much?" However, fuel, passengers, baggage and the potential for some stressing during some unexpected flight maneuvers/turbulence would be OK? Curious.

because the airplane was built with the stress of all of that in mind. The plane wasn't designed with wing damage, a repair, then the beefing up of the wing/wing box for the winglet, then the stresses of the winglet itself in mind. You would have to talk to an engineer at TechOps for the exact detail on why they decided they couldn't do it. (there probably some engineers on here who can give you a rough ball park as to why)

Like I said I can't remember the exact detail of why they couldn't do it. I just know Delta/Boeing looked at it and decided they couldn't add winglets to that plane.


Let me note, I'm not saying the airplane would like lose a wing or something because of it. Also remember that sometimes even the smallest of changes to the plane or its engines can require more maintenance. More maintenance equals higher cost. The juice has to be worth the squeeze and I'm going to assume it wasn't worth it for Delta/Boeing to try to work out a way to put winglets on that frame.
 
737max8
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:53 am

Dont think the split scimitars are turning out to be everything people thought they would be...it makes sense from the start but not to put on old birds that won't be around for terribly long.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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n7371f
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:14 am

There are several 75D's without winglets. The conversion was stopped during the basement of oil prices.

Narfish641 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
(and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet)

They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.


There is are certain versions of Delta's 757-200s that does not included winglets at all. I believe they are the 75P models they have.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1851
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:18 am

Considering the original 757-200 plan was to retire anything forward of ship 685, it makes sense that there are several birds in earlier sequences that don't have winglets.

But I believe, count there are 3 75D's among the last delivered that still don't have winglets. Granted the plan was stopped with the oil price fall, these 3 planes have several more years on them than the rest, should DL chose to keep flying them.

deltal1011man wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Considering how long it took them to equip them with BLENDED winglets (and, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think their 757 fleet has been fully winglet modified yet), I highly doubt it.

The 757s without winglets wont get them. They are older frames and fuel prices don't give the ROI for the work to be done.

Kden95 wrote:
As the title implies, will we see Delta 737-800s with the split scimitar winglets. Sorry if this has been brought already.

not unless fuel goes up again. ROI isn't there.

Last I heard the company is looking at putting the pivot bins on the 737/757s that do not have them. (I think its the 75H and 753 fleets)

but any mod project wont be done till all the current work is finished.
Narfish641 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.


There is are certain versions of Delta's 757-200s that does not included winglets at all. I believe they are the 75P models they have.

any 75 without winglets are 75Ds.
PanAm788 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
They haven't. I saw a 757 at DTW a few days ago that didn't have winglets yet.

All the 757s that will be modified have been modified. I believe there are two frames that will never get winglets due to some previous wing maintenance.

There is one 757 that can't have winglets due to a repair from some wing damage.
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:22 am

737max8 wrote:
Dont think the split scimitars are turning out to be everything people thought they would be...it makes sense from the start but not to put on old birds that won't be around for terribly long.


Delta is getting 0.5-2.5% fuel savings per flight depending stage length. Since they also like to keep planes flying for years past what other airlines do, the business case could be made for the -700 & -800s.
 
n515cr
Posts: 1828
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:49 am

Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:38 pm

None of the 737-700s or 737-800s have pivot bins.
 
akelley728
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:07 pm

n515cr wrote:
None of the 737-700s or 737-800s have pivot bins.


Except for these 737-800s:

73As (Ex-GOL): 4/4, all have 2Ku WiFi.
N774DE – ex-PR-GUW, (entered Apr 7, 2017; finished Jun 21, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
N775DE – ex-PR-GXG, (entered Apr 5, 2017; finished Jun 13, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
N776DE – ex-PR-GXK, (entered Apr 3, 2017; finished Jun 6, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
N377DE – ex-PR-GXO, (entered Feb 15, 2017; finished May 18, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
*Interim 73A config has Sky Interior with F16W30Y108, 2Ku, and streaming IFE, but no AVOD/ISP.
 
n515cr
Posts: 1828
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Re: Will Delta's 737-800 fleet have split scimitars?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:41 pm

akelley728 wrote:
n515cr wrote:
None of the 737-700s or 737-800s have pivot bins.


Except for these 737-800s:

73As (Ex-GOL): 4/4, all have 2Ku WiFi.
N774DE – ex-PR-GUW, (entered Apr 7, 2017; finished Jun 21, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
N775DE – ex-PR-GXG, (entered Apr 5, 2017; finished Jun 13, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
N776DE – ex-PR-GXK, (entered Apr 3, 2017; finished Jun 6, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
N377DE – ex-PR-GXO, (entered Feb 15, 2017; finished May 18, 2017) – SAL. 2Ku WiFi.
*Interim 73A config has Sky Interior with F16W30Y108, 2Ku, and streaming IFE, but no AVOD/ISP.


You’re right! I forgot about those 4 from GOL

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