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Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:22 am
by Thenoflyzone
D8, in a recent application with the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA), has mentioned that it intends to commence commercial activities in Canada on July 23, 2018.

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2018-a-36

No routes stated, but this opens up a lot of possibilities from Ireland/UK to Eastern Canada.

If the recent D8 secondary US destinations are any indication, this bodes well for places like YOW, YQB, YQM, YYT and YHZ.

Discuss.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:26 am
by LMFNINJA
I am curious to see if Norwegian's fares will be that much lower than Air Canada/Westjet/Transat. YYZ is an expensive airport from which to operate so I can't see the fares being as cheap as they are from Providence or Stewart. Hopefully I am wrong but I'm sure the Canadian airlines will fight Norwegian tooth and nail.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:44 am
by Thenoflyzone
LMFNINJA wrote:
I am curious to see if Norwegian's fares will be that much lower than Air Canada/Westjet/Transat. YYZ is an expensive airport from which to operate so I can't see the fares being as cheap as they are from Providence or Stewart. Hopefully I am wrong but I'm sure the Canadian airlines will fight Norwegian tooth and nail.


I highly doubt they will serve YYZ. It will most likely be a secondary Canadian destination, YOW being top among them. Plus westbound from the UK to YYZ is pushing it on a 7M8. This is also why I didn't include YHM in my list.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:48 am
by YYZLGA
I'm a big believer that PTP and FDF would work well on Norwegian to YUL and YYZ. If they're making American cities work, there's a much riper market in a country where millions of people speak French. AC yields are huge on their flights from YUL. Flying Saturday to Saturday at the end of this month, a round trip to PTP is $1536 on Rouge.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:46 am
by Mortyman
Interesting. Had to happen sooner or later I guess ...

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:02 am
by SQ789
YUL is the possible destination?

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:31 am
by skipness1E
Hamilton anyone? Just like flyglobespan, that ended well...

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:06 am
by lesfalls
How long will it most likely take for the CTA to apporve their application?

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:46 am
by Danny
If Norwegian survives till the summer. Check Leaham article about their creative accounting, mounting lossess and shrinking cash reserves.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:49 am
by Skyblue39
Hopefully they can serve Dublin-Halifax

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:50 am
by andymartin
Oh god, another day, another announcement by basket case airlines(aka Norwegian) of yet another country they 'intend' to operate to.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:18 am
by opticalilyushin
If they do start to Canada hopefully Belfast will get a route, the family and ancesteral connections between Ulster and Canada are huge.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 am
by klm617
YQG-LGW 3 weekly

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:32 am
by UAL777UK
Jesus, I cannot keep up with these announcements from them.

Can we second guess next weeks announcement?

I would say I hope they will succeed, a few people I know that have flown on them both long and short haul, raved about them.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:43 am
by peterinlisbon
Norweigan is by far the best translatlantic airline I have ever flown. I wish them good luck on this route.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:04 pm
by jfk777
Thenoflyzone wrote:
LMFNINJA wrote:
I am curious to see if Norwegian's fares will be that much lower than Air Canada/Westjet/Transat. YYZ is an expensive airport from which to operate so I can't see the fares being as cheap as they are from Providence or Stewart. Hopefully I am wrong but I'm sure the Canadian airlines will fight Norwegian tooth and nail.


I highly doubt they will serve YYZ. It will most likely be a secondary Canadian destination, YOW being top among them. Plus westbound from the UK to YYZ is pushing it on a 7M8. This is also why I didn't include YHM in my list.


If they fly from Gatwick to Toronto(YYZ) why would they use a 737 MAX, logic would say Norwegian would fly a 787.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:35 pm
by whywhyzee
Toronto could really benefit from OSL/ARN, as the only current Scandinavian destination here is CPH. Elsewise, Montreal could probably do really well with just about any of their destinations. I bring these up because I really don't see a secondary destination being added. There is a reason outside of the big 4 Canadian cities, service is sparse...there just aren't that many more people. Canada has a sparse population density and an already small population. They would be better served using sarge city and codesharing to access smaller markets.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:36 pm
by skipness1E
jfk777 wrote:
If they fly from Gatwick to Toronto(YYZ) why would they use a 737 MAX, logic would say Norwegian would fly a 787.

Gatwick also has a D8 base, and logic didn't suggest LGW-SIN on a B789 would be so far up the list either.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:58 pm
by Dominion301
Will be great to have them here. YOW could easily fill 2-4 weekly to the likes of CDG, LGW, DUB & EDI (YOW used to have 2- weekly service to GLA) on a MAX. YHZ’s transatlantic offering is staggering compared to YOW’s or YQB’s. YQB-Europe is another obvious one.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:04 pm
by klm617
YWG-LGW 4 Weekly

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:09 pm
by vrefplus5
YHM ground handler Menzies Aviation, has bid on, and is expecting to be awarded the contract to sevice D8.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:13 pm
by Thenoflyzone
jfk777 wrote:

If they fly from Gatwick to Toronto(YYZ) why would they use a 737 MAX, logic would say Norwegian would fly a 787.


D8 is the one applying, and they don't operate 787s.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:24 pm
by vrefplus5

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:29 pm
by Thenoflyzone
klm617 wrote:
YWG-LGW 4 Weekly


D8 only operates 737s, and LGW-YWG is out of reach for the 7M8.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:34 pm
by vrefplus5
D8 operates B787, B738 & B78M

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:47 pm
by MapleLeaf789
After the US, the UK (and Europe) are Canadians largest travel destinations.

I think an airline with an established reputation could definitely fill a 787 out of YYZ, especially into the London area (currently, I believe, 8 flights per day). And, the population catchment area for Toronto, I suspect makes the fees worthwhile. In my opinion, they will have to pull from those people not within easy commute to Pearson to make Hamilton work. Otherwise, their fares will have to be much cheaper to pull from YYZ.

Having said that, all for spreading the love. And it's great that Canada is attracting more competitive attention. Especially with a weak currency, travel is becoming more expensive, so if we can save on fares...

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:57 pm
by Thenoflyzone
vrefplus5 wrote:
D8 operates B787, B738 & B78M


According to latest aircraft registry data, no they dont.

https://www.iaa.ie/commercial-aviation/ ... -changes-1

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:36 pm
by ahj2000
I think Ottawa and Halifax are the two that will get service. Maybe Montréal.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:59 pm
by Dominion301
Thenoflyzone wrote:
klm617 wrote:
YWG-LGW 4 Weekly


D8 only operates 737s, and LGW-YWG is out of reach for the 7M8.


Maybe YWG once the 321LRs start flying.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:00 pm
by MartyMcFlyYYC
I would like to see YYC to compete headon with Westjet's international service but I'm not holding my breath. Also a part of me just wants to see the Rald Dahl 787 Tail in person

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:26 pm
by loonytoon44
MartyMcFlyYYC wrote:
I would like to see YYC to compete headon with Westjet's international service but I'm not holding my breath. Also a part of me just wants to see the Rald Dahl 787 Tail in person



As a Welshman, I too would LOVE to see that tail in Calgary or Edmonton (really pushing it haha)

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:35 pm
by pabloeing
Spain-Canada is under service........Norwegian can work very well too.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:36 pm
by ddp
They have already contracted ground crew in Hamilton, and so far only Hamilton in Canada. So initially they will be launching from there.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:51 pm
by Thenoflyzone
ddp wrote:
They have already contracted ground crew in Hamilton, and so far only Hamilton in Canada. So initially they will be launching from there.


So i guess the only question that remains is where from.

Most likely DUB, as LGW-YHM is pushing the range of the 7M8.

EDI-YHM could also work.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:32 pm
by vrefplus5
https://flightaware.com/live/fleet/NAX

Lots of B787’s in D8’s fleet.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:48 pm
by CFWAD

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:59 pm
by Skyblue39
Dublin to Toronto is already 4 daily during the Summer: 2 x A330 (Aer Lingus and Air Canada), Air Transat (A310/A330) and WestJet 737.
I think another flight into the Toronto Metro area from Dublin would be overkill.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:00 pm
Seems a pretty obvious development. Hopefully they'll also serve St John's and Halifax at some point.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:09 pm
by vrefplus5
I aplogize. D8, DY & DU....who can keep track. D8 is only B738.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:03 pm
by PatrickZ80
vrefplus5 wrote:
I aplogize. D8, DY & DU....who can keep track. D8 is only B738.


At the moment, yes, but they can easily shift their aircraft around. If one of them needs a Dreamliner, they get one.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:05 pm
by PatrickZ80
Thenoflyzone wrote:
ddp wrote:
They have already contracted ground crew in Hamilton, and so far only Hamilton in Canada. So initially they will be launching from there.


So i guess the only question that remains is where from.

Most likely DUB, as LGW-YHM is pushing the range of the 7M8.

EDI-YHM could also work.


I think (and hope) it'll be Dublin. One of the benefits of Dublin is that it's APD-free, opposed to British airports where you pay APD. The British can always connect in Dublin to catch these flights.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:08 pm
by mcdu
vrefplus5 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/fleet/NAX

Lots of B787’s in D8’s fleet.


Huge problem with the one card Monte that Norwegian does with certificates. What planes are attached to each certificate to offshore employees and circumvent local labor rules is a sign that no one should trust a company that uses these tactics for travel.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:46 pm
by MartijnNL
peterinlisbon wrote:
Norweigan is by far the best translatlantic airline I have ever flown. I wish them good luck on this route.

What made them better than the other ones?

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:47 pm
by Mangs
mcdu wrote:
vrefplus5 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/fleet/NAX

Lots of B787’s in D8’s fleet.


Huge problem with the one card Monte that Norwegian does with certificates. What planes are attached to each certificate to offshore employees and circumvent local labor rules is a sign that no one should trust a company that uses these tactics for travel.


Wait, what?

They use their AOCs as tools to get traffic rights to and from different markets. If they could use one they most probably would.

Please provide a valid source for your claims regarding offshore employees and circumvent local labor rules.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:55 pm
by skipness1E
DU and DI fly 787s, often under the DY label. D8 do not have any 787s.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:59 pm
by skipness1E
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
ddp wrote:
They have already contracted ground crew in Hamilton, and so far only Hamilton in Canada. So initially they will be launching from there.


So i guess the only question that remains is where from.

Most likely DUB, as LGW-YHM is pushing the range of the 7M8.

EDI-YHM could also work.


I think (and hope) it'll be Dublin. One of the benefits of Dublin is that it's APD-free, opposed to British airports where you pay APD. The British can always connect in Dublin to catch these flights.


@patrickz80 why is every post you make about how bad APD is for the UK economy and why we should all self connect offshore? I don’t get the obsession you have with a tax in another country? It’s not as if growth has really fallen away or anything.....

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:41 pm
by PatrickZ80
skipness1E wrote:
@patrickz80 why is every post you make about how bad APD is for the UK economy and why we should all self connect offshore? I don’t get the obsession you have with a tax in another country? It’s not as if growth has really fallen away or anything.....


Because I do like Norwegian, they are one of my favourite airlines. They serve a good number of interesting destinations, but for me every destination served from the UK only is useless. In theory the APD should not apply to me if I only transfer in the UK, but theory and practice are two different things. The problem is that I cannot transfer in the UK because they don't fly from anywhere around here to the UK. My local airport is Amsterdam, but Norwegian doesn't fly Amsterdam - Gatwick.

The APD is making the tickets so much more expensive that they're simply not interesting anymore. There is a certain limit I'm willing to pay for a flight ticket, if it's more than that then I'm simply not flying. The APD is the main reason tickets become too expensive. I want to go to all those destinations that Norwegian flies to and I want to fly there on Norwegian, but it should also be affordable. As it is now, it's not.

I'm not saying they should serve all those destinations from Amsterdam. Sure, that would be convenient for me but I don't mind transfering. Lots of destinations are served from for example Copenhagen. And no surprise, the tickets out of Copenhagen are a whole lot cheaper than the tickets out of Gatwick. Now that's what I call interesting fares, that's in line with what I'm willing to pay.

I'm projecting my personal situation on people in the rest of Europe. Because, let's face it, most people live in an area that's not served by Norwegian from Gatwick. Often they live in an area not served by Norwegian at all, but they still want to fly Norwegian. This goes for the UK as well as mainland Europe. All of those people should be able to fly Norwegian, not just the few living near Gatwick and the few places in Europe served from Gatwick. They can't fly long haul from all those airports that are their local airports, but they can make sure those people can get to their long haul hubs. And looking from that point of view, Gatwick is just not a good choice.

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:26 pm
by Thenoflyzone
YYZLGA wrote:
I'm a big believer that PTP and FDF would work well on Norwegian to YUL and YYZ. If they're making American cities work, there's a much riper market in a country where millions of people speak French. AC yields are huge on their flights from YUL. Flying Saturday to Saturday at the end of this month, a round trip to PTP is $1536 on Rouge.


According to the CCO of Norwegian, Thomas Ramdahl, they are interested in YUL/YQB to FDF/PTP for a winter 2018/2019 launch.

Boston/Providence and Washington to PTP/FDF were not performing as expected.

Link in french only

https://www.lesoleil.com/affaires/vols- ... 779425ddfc

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:52 pm
by Cunard
PatrickZ80 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
@patrickz80 why is every post you make about how bad APD is for the UK economy and why we should all self connect offshore? I don’t get the obsession you have with a tax in another country? It’s not as if growth has really fallen away or anything.....


Because I do like Norwegian, they are one of my favourite airlines. They serve a good number of interesting destinations, but for me every destination served from the UK only is useless. In theory the APD should not apply to me if I only transfer in the UK, but theory and practice are two different things. The problem is that I cannot transfer in the UK because they don't fly from anywhere around here to the UK. My local airport is Amsterdam, but Norwegian doesn't fly Amsterdam - Gatwick.

The APD is making the tickets so much more expensive that they're simply not interesting anymore. There is a certain limit I'm willing to pay for a flight ticket, if it's more than that then I'm simply not flying. The APD is the main reason tickets become too expensive. I want to go to all those destinations that Norwegian flies to and I want to fly there on Norwegian, but it should also be affordable. As it is now, it's not.

I'm not saying they should serve all those destinations from Amsterdam. Sure, that would be convenient for me but I don't mind transfering. Lots of destinations are served from for example Copenhagen. And no surprise, the tickets out of Copenhagen are a whole lot cheaper than the tickets out of Gatwick. Now that's what I call interesting fares, that's in line with what I'm willing to pay.

I'm projecting my personal situation on people in the rest of Europe. Because, let's face it, most people live in an area that's not served by Norwegian from Gatwick. Often they live in an area not served by Norwegian at all, but they still want to fly Norwegian. This goes for the UK as well as mainland Europe. All of those people should be able to fly Norwegian, not just the few living near Gatwick and the few places in Europe served from Gatwick. They can't fly long haul from all those airports that are their local airports, but they can make sure those people can get to their long haul hubs. And looking from that point of view, Gatwick is just not a good choice.


Now that you have told everyone the real reason why you bang on about APD in the United Kingdom can we take it that this subject is over and from now on none of your posts will contain APD as it's getting a bit boring now as we've read the same rhetoric time and time again!

Re: Norwegian Air Intl plans Canada launch on July 23, 2018

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:55 pm
by mcdu
Mangs wrote:
mcdu wrote:
vrefplus5 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/fleet/NAX

Lots of B787’s in D8’s fleet.


Huge problem with the one card Monte that Norwegian does with certificates. What planes are attached to each certificate to offshore employees and circumvent local labor rules is a sign that no one should trust a company that uses these tactics for travel.


Wait, what?

They use their AOCs as tools to get traffic rights to and from different markets. If they could use one they most probably would.

Please provide a valid source for your claims regarding offshore employees and circumvent local labor rules.


articles about NOrwegian and the need for alter egos to circumvent labor and air transport laws

http://ttd.org/news-and-media/ttd-in-the-news/the-foreigner-stop-norwegian-airs-descent-into-low-road-labor-policies/

http://www3.alpa.org/portals/Alpa/deptpages/communications/sos/NAI_FactSheet_110714.pdf