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KarelXWB
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LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:03 pm

As pointed out earlier in Lufthansa might change Long-Haul order, Spohr admits that LH might need additional A350s.

Carrier is also satisfied with the A350’s performance.

Lufthansa is considering a follow-on order for more Airbus A350s now that the airline has seen the initial results of flying Airbus’ latest widebody. “We are looking at it,” Lufthansa Group CEO Carsten Spohr said on the sidelines of the A4E Aviation Summit here. “We may need more than what we ordered.” The company has 25 A350-900s on firm order, seven of which had been delivered by the end of January.


Article
http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... order-more
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MrBren
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:22 pm

That would be fantastic news. I have not heard so far any airline being disappointed with the product, quite the contrary.
 
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Peeter
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:33 pm

In the age of fleet commonality, I hope they keep the 777X order still and add A35Js to their A350 order. Only for the sake of my hobby!
 
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keesje
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:39 pm

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
na
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:44 pm

Peeter wrote:
In the age of fleet commonality, I hope they keep the 777X order still and add A35Js to their A350 order. Only for the sake of my hobby!

The 77X order will likely remain as it is, yes, but chances are that some options will be dropped, and some 779s transferred to Swiss to replace the 77Ws.
 
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Peeter
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:31 pm

na wrote:
Peeter wrote:
In the age of fleet commonality, I hope they keep the 777X order still and add A35Js to their A350 order. Only for the sake of my hobby!

The 77X order will likely remain as it is, yes, but chances are that some options will be dropped, and some 779s transferred to Swiss to replace the 77Ws.


Thank you for the clarification. I haven't read through the other thread.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:51 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
As pointed out earlier in Lufthansa might change Long-Haul order, Spohr admits that LH might need additional A350s.

Of course they need more A350s. LH originally intended the A359 as A343 replacement, but instead they are using it as A346 replacement. 25 is not enough.
na wrote:
Peeter wrote:
In the age of fleet commonality, I hope they keep the 777X order still and add A35Js to their A350 order. Only for the sake of my hobby!

The 77X order will likely remain as it is, yes, but chances are that some options will be dropped, and some 779s transferred to Swiss to replace the 77Ws.

LH recently dropped the 14 options they had (originally they planned to order 34 779s, it will remain at 20 firm orders now). The 779 was as said to replace all A346s, but now will replace the remaining 744s and perhaps the A346 just on routes where first class is still required.
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ap305
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:16 pm

He says reliability, fuel burn and costs are up to expectations. Of course the non aviation media does not seem interested in reporting anything positive about Airbus these days.
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NZ321
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:43 pm

I don't see the 77X in LH fleet somehow. I agree LX will get them but probably not 20. So who knows. Fingers crossed for A35K.
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EPA001
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:44 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I don't see the 77X in LH fleet somehow. I agree LX will get them but probably not 20. So who knows. Fingers crossed for A35K.


Well, they have ordered them for a reason. But imho the combination of the B779 and A35K will be one we are likely to see more and more over the coming decade. So why not at LH? :)
 
columba
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:15 pm

There are now three topics on Lufthansa´s fleet and possible orders in the future maybe we could put them all together in one thread ?
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Stitch
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:25 pm

frigatebird wrote:
LH recently dropped the 14 options they had (originally they planned to order 34 779s, it will remain at 20 firm orders now). The 779 was as said to replace all A346s, but now will replace the remaining 744s and perhaps the A346 just on routes where first class is still required.


LH's supervisory board approved the purchase of 34 777-9 and 25 A350-900s in September of 2013. They only put down deposits for 20 of the 34 (by transferring monies held in Purchase Rights for the 747-8) which is why Boeing only shows 20 frames ordered on their books with the other 14 being "reconfirmable" at a later date. They also approved options and purchase rights for up to 64 777X and 55 A350 family aircraft.

In June of 2017, LH's CEO said they may have ordered too many 777X and not enough A350, but I have not seen any reports showing LH has in fact informed Boeing they will not "reconfirm" any of the 14 777-9 subject to that clause and I expect any "trigger date" for doing so is still many years away.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:05 pm

Sounds really well! I hope they consider it! The A350s are truly a unique aircraft in Lufthansas fleet!
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caverunner17
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:27 pm

Stitch wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
LH recently dropped the 14 options they had (originally they planned to order 34 779s, it will remain at 20 firm orders now). The 779 was as said to replace all A346s, but now will replace the remaining 744s and perhaps the A346 just on routes where first class is still required.


LH's supervisory board approved the purchase of 34 777-9 and 25 A350-900s in September of 2013. They only put down deposits for 20 of the 34 (by transferring monies held in Purchase Rights for the 747-8) which is why Boeing only shows 20 frames ordered on their books with the other 14 being "reconfirmable" at a later date. They also approved options and purchase rights for up to 64 777X and 55 A350 family aircraft.

In June of 2017, LH's CEO said they may have ordered too many 777X and not enough A350, but I have not seen any reports showing LH has in fact informed Boeing they will not "reconfirm" any of the 14 777-9 subject to that clause and I expect any "trigger date" for doing so is still many years away.

Everything I've read is that the 777-9's are replacements for the 747-400's, which LH has 13 of currently.

Replacing the 744's with 359's would be a huge capacity drop - 20-30% depending on the configuration. Unless LH plans on shrinking their LH ops over the next 5 years, I can't see downgauging that much being a good long-term strategy.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:31 pm

caverunner17 wrote:
Replacing the 744's with 359's would be a huge capacity drop - 20-30% depending on the configuration. Unless LH plans on shrinking their LH ops over the next 5 years, I can't see downgauging that much being a good long-term strategy.


Well, they could up gauche and down gauche: getting the A350-1000 and more A380 (unlikely). Would have the benefit of not adding another type to the mix.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Stitch
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:38 pm

As noted by caverunner17, the 777-9 makes the most sense as both a 747 family replacement (747-400 now, 747-8 down the road) as well as a platform for up-gauging routes in the future. It can also serve as an A380 replacement if there is no comparable frame available when those aircraft start to leave the fleet.

A350-1000 would be a perfect A340-600 replacement so I would not be surprised if LH adds the model to their fleet when it comes time for those frames to be retired from service.
 
mig17
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Since neither the 747-8i nor the A380 are leaving LH's fleet anytime soon, the focus is to replace the A346 and the 747-400. Both the A350 and 77X can do that and unlike EPA001 I am always a bit suprised by airlines wanting to combine those.

Like I already said elsewhere, it would mean 6 types at LH in the "near future" : A333, A343, A359, 748, A388 & 779. (3 with 4 engines)
While it could be more optimised considering the age of the remaining A330/340 and an alternate choice of boeing product, this time only 4 types : 787 (-9 &-10), A350(-900 & 1000), 748 & A380 (only 2 with 4 engines).
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Stitch
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:37 pm

The A350-900 seems a natural A340-300 replacement and it would work as well for an A330-300 replacement. So long term, LH could still be on a four-family widebody fleet with the A350-900 / A350-1000, 777-9, 747-8 and A380-800.
 
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ClipperYankee
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Re: LH likes A350 performance, mulls additional orders

Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:21 pm

IIRC, LH has said that they refuse to go all-in on one manufacturer for their fleet so canceling 779 orders would not gibe with that (yes, I know they'd still have 748s and a dwindling number of 744s, but that would be en ever shrinking number).
I can absolutely see more A350 orders but the 777X does fill slots in their line up in more ways than one.
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