Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
rlwynn
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:24 pm

Why would SRB even have a say today with the airline he used to own?
I can drive faster than you
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1688
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:21 pm

Did they plan to put any of these into the leisure fleet at all ? Would they have had an easier time filling them in a lower density bars/casinos/massage parlour configuration ? Has any A380 operator really done that layout in any seriousness ?
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1688
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:26 pm

rlwynn wrote:
Why would SRB even have a say today with the airline he used to own?


With his Virgin Group still owning 20% I'd assume so ?
 
beenalongtime
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:43 pm

People at Broughton have known for years that Virgin would never take these a/c. The order has been dead in all but name for a very long time.
Nothing more than tidying up the order book.
Regards
b
 
United Airline
Posts: 8971
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Cheap+stupid!
 
User avatar
XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:15 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Would they have had an easier time filling them in a lower density bars/casinos/massage parlour configuration ? Has any A380 operator really done that layout in any seriousness ?


Well yeah, they'd have had an easier time filling them but an even harder time making money with them because then they wouldn't even be able to actually properly fill them on the odd occasions they actually had the traffic to justify having them. Remember, weight is weight on a plane regardless of purpose and costs money to fly, so it's generally better than the weight is paying its way :p
 
plunaaircanada
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:23 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Keith2004 wrote:
In Y many would say the 767 has best experience


You mean in 1990?


767 with the 2-3-2 seating arrangement is the best Y.
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:42 pm

plunaaircanada wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
Keith2004 wrote:
In Y many would say the 767 has best experience


You mean in 1990?


767 with the 2-3-2 seating arrangement is the best Y.


Just last week it was great. One of the best TA flights ever.
I can drive faster than you
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:17 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
With some of these older orders though I get the impression it's not so simple, mainly because the contracts date to "simpler" times (if I may :p ) and relate to aircraft models that haven't had the most straightforward of development and introduction histories. It's probably safest to assume that after all these years each different airline is going to have ended up a totally unique contractual position, though yeah eventually if nothing else the manufacturers are going to run out of patience and start demanding a level of certainty.

QF's remaining A380 orders are going to be similarly difficult to pull apart from the outside - obviously they have taken delivery of the first tranche, but they received significant upfront compensation from Airbus for the delays. We don't know exactly though how much flexibility, if any, was traded away for that and then the additional deferments. Perhaps they're now in the position where it'll be "take the planes or lose the money", or perhaps they're clinging on in the hope they can take a few new-builds in a couple more years to rotate some of the older birds out, or perhaps Airbus will allow them to transfer the deposits to a new order (sweetening the deal for the A350 as a Project Sunrise contender), or perhaps the deposits have already been transferred to existing JQ orders.

Both Boeing and Airbus have, and are, systematically clearer the decks in respect to longstanding orders, options and MOU's/LOI's.

Both companies now use standard template OEM contracts (A & B not the same) for all but their largest customers, which internally Boeing refers to as Tier 1 (Airbus uses different terminology).

Variations to templates, or promotion of a customer from Tier 2 or lower to Tier 1, requires OEM Board approval.

Tier 1 customers (including major leasors) use mutually agreed contract templates, to avoid the need for each and every contract to be tweaked / amended by the customer, OEM and financiers.

GE and RR also use templates (not so sure about PW), though they don't necessarily share the same air frame Tier definitions.

Based on when the original QF order was placed, would have what today is considered to be a 'soft' contract. But they were compensated for delivery delays, which based on their financial position at the time, was undoubtedly cash or credit (used).

The million dollar question, is was a soft contract replaced with a hard(er) one when compensation value changed hands? Should have done. Perhaps not.

Other side of order housekeeping, is if planning to close a production line, the last thing you want is for a canny customer to trigger a last minute order, which if inconvenient or costly to satisfy, you end up paying further compensation. Both parties will want resolution.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:22 pm

flee wrote:
Does anyone think that it is a good idea for OEMs and customers to put a time limit on orders? Maybe all agreements (with aircraft not delivered) older than 8-10 years should be cancelled as they have expired...

They do. Even in the era of 'soft' contracts, options and MoU's timed out, but no documented penalties, and in practice OEM's didn't enforce them. Now T&C's include fees for extensions, model hopping, deferrals, etc, so no surprises, though naturally customers consider everything is negotiable.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3642
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic cancels order for 6 A380s

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:45 am

Edited: please delete this post

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos