AA747123
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AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:32 am

Well they are getting old, but still have a lot of life left in them. Wonder if someone else will pick them up??

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -two-years

Wonder if AA is feeling pressure on keeping capacity under control?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:34 am

This strikes me as odd. Are these particularly high-cycle or high hours for their chronological age? It would seem these are worthy of another D check. It is peculiar that AA would be looking for used A319s and retire 738s early.
 
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enilria
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:39 am

Also strikes me as odd. I suppose they think they are worth a lot more now than they will be in the future? ...or this a situation where they are coming off lease?
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:40 am

That’s interesting, you’d think they would go after the A320s first.
 
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Aeroplasma
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:43 am

Well according to the article, it indicates, "between the end of this year and the end of 2020, American plans to add 50 Airbus SE A321neo jets and 40 Boeing 737 Max aircraft, according to a regulatory filing."
From what I assume, they're obtaining newer jets in order to probably replace older jets or expand on more routes. It does indicate in the article that American Airlines is trying to balance the delivery of new aircraft by retiring older jets.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:45 am

Well...that puts 45 737-800's on the market over time. That should help bolster some airlines' fleet size.
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:51 am

For me, at least, Southwest comes to mind. They've bought numerous 737-700s on the second-hand market, and they're probably looking for some cheap larger capacity planes. Would they possibly be in the market to pick some of these up?
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:53 am

Looks like they have ~36 738's that would be at least 20 years old by the end of 2020. If you add that with the MD80's, you're close to the 90 new planes the article says AA is scheduled to take between now and 2020. How many A320's are they planning on retiring over the next three years? Looks like they got rid of about 5 of those last year and ~20 of them are around the same vintage as the oldest 738's.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:54 am

From the AA Fleet update thread: viewtopic.php?t=1382671&start=150

ckfred wrote:
I had dinner with a friend who is an AA 738 captain. While the older 738s still have cycles left, one problem is that they use an older HUD system than the planes that started arriving in 2009. Parts for the old system are becoming difficult to find. For whatever reason, the HUD system in the newer 738s will not work with the older planes. It's both a hardware and a software issue. Rather than spend a lot of money to find a solution for planes that are coming up on 20 years old, it's probably better to retire the planes while there are a decent number of cycles left (i.e., have value on the used aircraft market).

At least, that is what he heard from instructors at training recently.


I can't find the post, but I recall another issue with the earlier 738s which involved potential metal fatigue which would be costly to repair.. I'll keep looking but I think this was another factor (Also affecting Southwest).
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:57 am

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
For me, at least, Southwest comes to mind. They've bought numerous 737-700s on the second-hand market, and they're probably looking for some cheap larger capacity planes. Would they possibly be in the market to pick some of these up?

...Or FedEx...
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:59 am

All of these are pre 9/11 737-800 then soon after AA stopped getting 737-800 so there was a LONG time by the time the next one came.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:13 am

I have a feeling this could introduce the star of a 737-800F program. What say you all?
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:16 am

Spacepope wrote:
Deltabravo1123 wrote:
For me, at least, Southwest comes to mind. They've bought numerous 737-700s on the second-hand market, and they're probably looking for some cheap larger capacity planes. Would they possibly be in the market to pick some of these up?

...Or FedEx...


A freight airline may be making a good offer on these planes. There is a newly launched 737-800BCF program, but the problem with that is used 737-800 prices are quite high, especially compared to older used A320s. The number of 737-800s available on the used market is low. Here are prices

viewtopic.php?t=1361025

If AA can get a freight operator or even Boeing to buy these planes at $15 Million each, that may explain why they are being sold. The price of 737-800s is likely to drop quite a bit in 5 years, so this might be an opportunistic sale.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:18 am

eraugrad02 wrote:
I have a feeling this could introduce the star of a 737-800F program. What say you all?


I am sure the freighter conversion people would be thrilled at getting 45 of the same type airplanes in the same configuration that are well maintained. The airplanes currently on the used market are a random mix of flight deck configurations and combinations of hours and cycles that adds quite a bit to the cost of converting them to freighters,
 
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STT757
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:22 am

I wonder if UA would be interested, they have some 738s that are the same age.
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william
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:23 am

Anyone else getting over the fact that the 737-800 is already 20 years old?
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:25 am

United needs some more planes for the extra gates in Ohare.
 
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STT757
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:34 am

[threeid][/threeid]
william wrote:
Anyone else getting over the fact that the 737-800 is already 20 years old?


I remember when they first came out, my first 73NG flight was EWR-SJU-EWR in 1998.
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Cointrin330
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:51 am

And yet they keep flying those ratty old 763s and 752s...
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:03 am

jfk777 wrote:
All of these are pre 9/11 737-800 then soon after AA stopped getting 737-800 so there was a LONG time by the time the next one came.


You would be correct, IIRC, there were 75 738's in that pre 9-11 batch. I bet the all end up getting retired early.

On a related subject, if AA decides to go ahead and take the A359's on order, they could use them to start
replacing the 77E's , some of which are quickly approaching 20 years old themselves
 
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Runway28L
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:03 am

Wishful thinking and already a reoccurring theme on here... but IMO these would be a decent option for Delta as short-term MD-88/90 replacements.

WN I'll add as well. Didn't they recently hint at taking up used 738s if the opportunity presented itself?
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:12 am

I wonder if AA may be interested in a similar number of soon-to-be former VX A320s? ;)
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:18 am

Earlier examples are fleet leaders that find issues before everyone knows to do preventative maintenance. At 20 years is a good time to sell.

I join the chorus hoping these will be freighters.


STT757 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
william wrote:
Anyone else getting over the fact that the 737-800 is already 20 years old?


I remember when they first came out, my first 73NG flight was EWR-SJU-EWR in 1998.

I still remember Douglas engineers pointing out all the faults in the 738. Huh... Kinda like a.net!

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william
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:22 am

Runway28L wrote:
Wishful thinking and already a reoccurring theme on here... but IMO these would be a decent option for Delta as short-term MD-88/90 replacements.

WN I'll add as well. Didn't they recently hint at taking up used 738s if the opportunity presented itself?


Why would SWA want aircraft that are near the end cycles wise and probaby needs an expensive D check?
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:23 am

EA CO AS wrote:
I wonder if AA may be interested in a similar number of soon-to-be former VX A320s? ;)


Had that exact same thought when the merger was first announced...
 
airzona11
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:32 am

How much life left do the A320s have? They aren't investing in those interiors, no MCE, etc.
 
citationjet
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:43 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
And yet they keep flying those ratty old 763s and 752s...

And MD80s....
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:45 am

william wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Wishful thinking and already a reoccurring theme on here... but IMO these would be a decent option for Delta as short-term MD-88/90 replacements.

WN I'll add as well. Didn't they recently hint at taking up used 738s if the opportunity presented itself?


Why would SWA want aircraft that are near the end cycles wise and probaby needs an expensive D check?


I doubt AA ran enough cycles per year to really hit that limit at 19 years of age. Flight hour limits might be closer, but I doubt that as well.

A D-check is not that expensive, $2-3M for 737s, and if it was truly due then it’s customary for the seller to take the full cost of the upcoming check out of the sale price. If it was due sometime in the future then a pro-rated portion of the check cost would come out of the price.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:52 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
This strikes me as odd. Are these particularly high-cycle or high hours for their chronological age? It would seem these are worthy of another D check. It is peculiar that AA would be looking for used A319s and retire 738s early.

The NG fleet is not in the same A,B,C,D check program. The highest check is now a C. All C checks are not equal though. Some require a crown structural inspection. That is more costly and these might be coming up on their second. That cost with as others have alluded to avionics issues, could be the driver to retirement.
I do find it shocking they are retiring the MD replacement in the same breathe as the MD goes to the big beach. I don't think DL is even thinking about parking any NG's yet.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:02 am

citationjet wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
And yet they keep flying those ratty old 763s and 752s...

And MD80s....



Well...the MD-80s end is in sight...not so with the others
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:18 am

citationjet wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
And yet they keep flying those ratty old 763s and 752s...

And MD80s....


The -83 I flew on in December was in good shape...

Edit: my window appeared to have some fragmentations in the plastic https://imgur.com/a/o2UsJ
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:25 am

I guess I find it odd that AA is retiring 738's and simultaneously bring ERJ-145's out of storage.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:31 am

Makes me feel old. I remember when these were joining the fleet in 1999.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:31 am

What's odd is if you go buy face value of age is that their oldest 737s should be retired before their youngest MD80s.
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:32 am

heavymetal wrote:
A D-check is not that expensive, $2-3M for 737s, and if it was truly due then it’s customary for the seller to take the full cost of the upcoming check out of the sale price. If it was due sometime in the future then a pro-rated portion of the check cost would come out of the price.

Indeed, that's exactly the starting point for negotiations.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:40 am

mcg wrote:
I guess I find it odd that AA is retiring 738's and simultaneously bring ERJ-145's out of storage.


It is odd, but it makes sense when thinking how many airplanes AA is taking delivery of while prices of used planes are high. AA got great deals when they ordered their first 737MAX and A321neos sine it was during a recession in the United States. Nowadays, narrowbodies are in hot demand. Used 737-800s are priced very high especially with the freight market picking up and demand for feedstock for freighters. Meanwhile ERJ145s, 737-700s and A319s are priced lower and are getting added by US majors. It may be financially beneficial to sell of planes that still have life left in them and are valuable as freighters rather than trying to get 5-10 more years out of them. Fuel savings and getting value out of their used assets may be worth it. Used 737-800s are selling for more than some 777s. I see AA being opportunistic. Adding ERJs does seem odd but they do need the capacity
Last edited by Newbiepilot on Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
dbo861
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:42 am

Planesmart wrote:
heavymetal wrote:
A D-check is not that expensive, $2-3M for 737s, and if it was truly due then it’s customary for the seller to take the full cost of the upcoming check out of the sale price. If it was due sometime in the future then a pro-rated portion of the check cost would come out of the price.

Indeed, that's exactly the starting point for negotiations.


Also, if these had a fresh D-check, how much life is left I them?

WN hasn’t shown any interest in second hand 738s, but I’ve always wondered if that would change when airlines start receiving the 738MAX and there were plenty of used 738s on the market.
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:10 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
And yet they keep flying those ratty old 763s and 752s...


Most of the remaining 757's and 767's that should be remaining after 2020 were built between 2001 - 2003, fyi :roll:
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:12 am

eraugrad02 wrote:
I have a feeling this could introduce the star of a 737-800F program. What say you all?


738´s are already in conversion, (BDSF) one is in Israel (ex Transaero) already.
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:22 am

These aircraft have a whole lot of remaining life, with the oldest being around 55k hours and 23k cycles. Between that relatively light usage and good AA maintenance I'd think a number of passenger operators would be interested, possibly including any of the other big three US airlines.

I find the decision quite puzzling and would have expected a deferral of some MAXes instead.
Last edited by seabosdca on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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EK413
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:23 am

jfk777 wrote:
All of these are pre 9/11 737-800 then soon after AA stopped getting 737-800 so there was a LONG time by the time the next one came.


Really find it odd considering QF took on the deferred AA B738’s & don’t plan on retiring their 1st B738 until mid 2020!

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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:34 am

If the maintenance and cycle numbers are good, UA should be taking a hard look at these. If they can get another 4-5 years out of them then they would be worth it.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:46 am

Well the oldest 737-800's have enough life left to be worth converting to freighters, while AA doesn't have to spend money refurbishing their interiors. This way AA gets new 737-8Max aircraft with new interiors that also have better fuel economy. In addition to better reliability and efficiency, passengers get a more consistent product inside.
 
AA321T
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:49 am

Relatively low hours and cycles. As said above, about 55k hours and 23k cycles.

For comparison, the oldest MD80 is 88k hours and 48k cycles and the oldest 757 is 83k hours and 23k cycles. I wish they’d expedite those first...
 
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:04 am

OneSexyL1011 wrote:
If the maintenance and cycle numbers are good, UA should be taking a hard look at these. If they can get another 4-5 years out of them then they would be worth it.

Highly doubt AA would sell them to a direct domestic competitor. I still think freighter fleet as they still have some useful life, haven't been run into the ground.

WN will use theirs till scrapping. That they stopped buying used 73Gs will cause used prices to drop for the entire NG family.
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:05 am

Spacepope wrote:
OneSexyL1011 wrote:
If the maintenance and cycle numbers are good, UA should be taking a hard look at these. If they can get another 4-5 years out of them then they would be worth it.

Highly doubt AA would sell them to a direct domestic competitor. I still think freighter fleet as they still have some useful life, haven't been run into the ground.
.

Depending on who actually owns these frames, they may not have much a say in who gets them.
 
tullamarine
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:09 am

EK413 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
All of these are pre 9/11 737-800 then soon after AA stopped getting 737-800 so there was a LONG time by the time the next one came.


Really find it odd considering QF took on the deferred AA B738’s & don’t plan on retiring their 1st B738 until mid 2020!

EK413

Australian 738s tend to have a very good life as they are never subjected to de-icing etc. They also have an average stage length of around 2 hours meaning a 2001 QF 738 probably has a lot less cycles on it than an AA 738 of the same vintage.
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:33 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the Korean LCC's pick up a fair few of these. Lots of ex Ryanair and Air Berlin 738's have found a new home over there.
 
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bgm
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:45 am

ikolkyo wrote:
That’s interesting, you’d think they would go after the A320s first.


And why would that be?
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ikolkyo
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Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:57 am

bgm wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
That’s interesting, you’d think they would go after the A320s first.


And why would that be?


Oh look you again, hunting down my posts.

I say this because the A320 fleet has been slowly shrinking ever since the merger and there are aircraft of similar age still around.

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