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lightsaber
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Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:26 am

I've been tracking the quantity of MD-80/90s registered on airfleets for a long time. On 8/23/2016 I noticed there were fewer than 500.

Today, 3/13/18 there are 398.
It appears the drop was due to Allegiant not renewing registrations.

http://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-md80.htm
164 with Delta, I believe there are 106 MD-80s. Sadly soon we will see less than a hundred in their fleet. Retirement planned in 2020 for the MD-80, unknown for MD-90.
45 with American. Gone are the days when the discussion was on the huge quantity of their fleet. Retirement planned in 2019.
34 with Allegiant. It amazes me how they are the #3 MD-80/90 operator. Retirement planned in November, as in late 2018.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Allegiant%20Air.htm
Allegiant now has more A320s than MD-80s

A319: 25
A320: 35
MD-80: 34
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AirbusA6
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:54 am

Virtually none left in Europe, looking at that list Iran will soon be the place to go to see MD80s!
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:15 am

AirbusA6 wrote:
Virtually none left in Europe, looking at that list Iran will soon be the place to go to see MD80s!


I think, that the MD-80 is (at the moment?) the most widely used civilian jetliner in Iran. However, the MD-80 will probably be replaced by newer aircraft within the next years.

Years ago, I responded several times to complaints (here in the forum and as responses to e-mails) about MD-80s, that the MD-80 is on her way out and we only need some patience. Actually, the number of active MD-80s will drastically dwindle during the next few years.

Regards
Dedicated for the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95 ehhh...Boeing 717, and DC-9: http://www.MD-80.com
 
parapente
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:23 am

Isn't the 717 a sort of MD in slightly different cloths?I thought these aircraft were prized possessions but could be wrong.
 
boed
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:43 am

AirbusA6 wrote:
Virtually none left in Europe, looking at that list Iran will soon be the place to go to see MD80s!


What about Danish Air Transport and Bulgarian Air Charter? ;)
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:03 pm

That is why I decided to fly to the USA next month for an MD tribute trip on DL. MD80/90s wherever possible, while they are still operating a number of destinations. I hope I get a different registration on each sector. When they go, the aviation world will get a whole lot more boring.
Flown to 147 Airports in 59 Countries on 81 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:41 pm

Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:39 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(


Far Eastern Air Transport has a few MD-82/83s flying.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:47 pm

alex0easy wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(


Far Eastern Air Transport has a few MD-82/83s flying.

True, but they have been attracting some negative press lately due to its old fleet, thus it is not recommended to fly with them.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
34 with Allegiant. It amazes me how they are the #3 MD-80/90 operator. Retirement planned in November, as in late 2018.


The last day for MD flights at Allegiant is supposedly November 25, 2018. I have not heard which routes will be operated with MDs on the last MD flight day.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:40 pm

alex0easy wrote:
Far Eastern Air Transport has a few MD-82/83s flying.


It appears, that Far Eastern Air Transport is part of the very small group of remaining „original“-customers for the MD-80, alongside American Airlines and Delta Air Lines. All remaining MD-80-operators never ordered factory-new MD-80s.
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:15 pm

I flew TPA - DTW - HPN , then HPN - ATL - TPA over the weekend and, luckily for me, the TPA - DTW and ATL - TPA sectors were both on MD-88s. What a great ride!!
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:26 pm

PennPal wrote:
I flew TPA - DTW - HPN , then HPN - ATL - TPA over the weekend and, luckily for me, the TPA - DTW and ATL - TPA sectors were both on MD-88s. What a great ride!!


Were on first class, in any other place I dont include MD 88 and great ride in the same sentence.

Subu
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:36 pm

Taiwan's civil aviation authorities are considering to fix regulations so that pax planes cannot be over 26 years old.
https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/ ... 3/1215945/

I guess FAT's MD-80s can't stay for long.
 
raylee67
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:50 pm

The MD80 has already achieved an amazing feat that AA would have started to massively retire the 737-800 before all their MD80s are retired, considering 737-800 was ordered as a replacement for some of the MD80.

alex0easy wrote:
Taiwan's civil aviation authorities are considering to fix regulations so that pax planes cannot be over 26 years old.
https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/ ... 3/1215945/

I guess FAT's MD-80s can't stay for long.

FAT is partitioning the local authorities to extend special dispensation for them to fly the MD80 until 2020. They said it is impossible for them to replace all MD80s within the next few months due to the need to train all the pilots with a new aircraft type. It is possible that the airline will shut down if they are forced to retire all MD80 this year.
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MSPbrandon
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:56 pm

Good Riddance.
 
drdisque
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:52 pm

The original AA 737-800 order was to replace 727's. AFAIK, no MD-80's except the former Reno Air MD-87's were retired in the late 90's or early 2000's.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:51 pm

MSPbrandon wrote:
Good Riddance.


Ah yes, the obligatory hating on a classic real airplane that actually makes noise and smoke and has some character. What happened to the real aviation fans on this site? What is this obsession with seeing everything unique replaced by generic, boring, wing mounted engines, white painted plastic planes?
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:22 pm

Lest us not forget Bulgarian Air Charter (or whatever you call it).

I’m surprised Insel Air only has 1; I could’ve sworn they had a couple more of them.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:43 pm

raylee67 wrote:
The MD80 has already achieved an amazing feat that AA would have started to massively retire the 737-800 before all their MD80s are retired, considering 737-800 was ordered as a replacement for some of the MD80.

alex0easy wrote:
Taiwan's civil aviation authorities are considering to fix regulations so that pax planes cannot be over 26 years old.
https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/ ... 3/1215945/

I guess FAT's MD-80s can't stay for long.

FAT is partitioning the local authorities to extend special dispensation for them to fly the MD80 until 2020. They said it is impossible for them to replace all MD80s within the next few months due to the need to train all the pilots with a new aircraft type. It is possible that the airline will shut down if they are forced to retire all MD80 this year.


Good point! Seeing your replacement off is cool! It reminds me of when NW actively refurbished some DC-9-50s in place of A319s they were returning to lessor.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:53 pm

MSPbrandon wrote:
Good Riddance.

Isn't this an aviation enthusiast website? The MD-80 is a great aircraft. I have travelled from Europe to the United States with the sole purpose of flying on the MD-80 of American Airlines. The journey from Portland via Dallas to Philadelphia took almost six hours and I loved every minute of it. I will take an MD-80 over almost any other aircraft type.

I am very happy to have flown the MD-80 of Alitalia, Finnair, SAS and Spanair as well.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:57 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
Lest us not forget Bulgarian Air Charter (or whatever you call it).

I’m surprised Insel Air only has 1; I could’ve sworn they had a couple more of them.


They had a few, but they're grounded/returned because (partly after the hurricane) insel air is having a very rough time.
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:01 pm

boed wrote:
AirbusA6 wrote:
Virtually none left in Europe, looking at that list Iran will soon be the place to go to see MD80s!


What about Danish Air Transport and Bulgarian Air Charter? ;)


I did say virtually! All but 1 of the MD80s in Europe are in Bulgaria or Ukraine it seems
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:05 pm

Since I mostly fly DL I still do a lot of MD-88, MD-90, 717 flying every month. I take for granted the fact they are pretty much one of the last major operators of the type.

I feel like I need to log one more AA MD-80 trip for nostalgia purposes. So many vacations in my childhood started with an AA MD-80 trip on DTW-ORD or DTW-DFW.
By the late-90s/early 2000s, I got bored of MD-80s because they were so frequent.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:13 am

It’s an antique contraption, hence the good riddance comment

Just pointing out the similarities with another nutball project born in 1986, Lindsey Lohan.

(1) Both started out cute, but got stretched
(2) Both smoke
(3) Both make noise when they really should be quiet
(4) Both have legal restrictions which limit how high they are supposed to get
(5) Neither does math very quickly
(6) Both are unpredictable when you take them out in public & neither follows commands well
(7) Both get droopy when not powered up
(8) Both leak inappropriately
(9) Both show up in sequels
(10) Both drink waaay too much

Bonus (11) When either tries to stop, they get the shakes
Bonus 2 (12) Both are frequently driven by people on probation
Bonus 3 (13) The MD88 makes a lot of SkyMiles, Lindsey makes lots of Marlboro miles
Bonus 4 (14) Both do a pretty good job, but getting there involves too much drama

The MD88 has been issued a Certificate of Airworthiness. Few know how that happened.

When you board the jet and observe the stand by instruments are back in a closet, with indications which are inverted, so as to look correct if viewed through two mirrors ... you will realize that Douglas is a little "different."
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:51 am

parapente wrote:
Isn't the 717 a sort of MD in slightly different cloths?I thought these aircraft were prized possessions but could be wrong.


The 717 was originally conceived as the MD-95 before Boeing acquired McDonnell-Douglas. The 717, MD-80 series, and MD-90 are all descendants of the original DC-9, but the 717 is still a significantly different aircraft than the MD-80 as it has much newer engines, avionics, etc.
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:33 am

JBo wrote:
parapente wrote:
Isn't the 717 a sort of MD in slightly different cloths?I thought these aircraft were prized possessions but could be wrong.


The 717 was originally conceived as the MD-95 before Boeing acquired McDonnell-Douglas. The 717, MD-80 series, and MD-90 are all descendants of the original DC-9, but the 717 is still a significantly different aircraft than the MD-80 as it has much newer engines, avionics, etc.


I would go so far as including the new ARJ21 as the latest iteration of the MadDogs. Just a newer more up to date version with Antonov wings, new engine and new avionics but it is based upon the MD-90's. As per the previous quote I personally would consider the 717 a DC-9 descendant. Just because the aircraft has new engines does not mean that it is not in the same family just as the A320neo is a decendant of the A320 and the Max8 is to 738NG to 734 to 737. Same is true to ARJ21 (albeit a bit different since it is a different manufacturer) to 717 (still made in Long Beach) to MD90 to MD80's to DC-9.

Include the 717 in the MD history!
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pezzy669
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:52 am

Mark me up as one who enjoys the MD-88/90 and I end up on DL versions quite frequently on my short haul ATL-XXX routes. The 2 seat side is great and if you end up on the pointy end anywhere forward of the overwing exits the engine noise is very minimal on the MD-88, on the 90's the are engines are barely audible. I will admit the slimline seats on the DL MD-90 are awful though.

ATL is going to be very boring once the 88/90 are gone and I will honestly miss them.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:57 am

In my experience, there is a tendency of „negative consideration“ about MD-80s. I even refuse to contribute in one big specific German aviation forum to participate with topics and/or news about the MD-80, MD-90, Boeing 717, and DC-9 because it´s a waste of time and there is an approach of ignorance and unasked need of justification, why airline X once ordered the MD-80 instead of the Boeing 737. Such a question is often not asked to exchange facts and to view a specific evaluation in a dialogue to „collect as many information as possible“. It´s rather a way to find „a mistake“.
I would never claim a decision of an airline to order aircraft X as a mistake without a thorough research to claim facts. For example, I could claim my opinion, that it was a rather stupid decision by Air Malta (due to many factors) to order the Avro RJ70, to put 82 seats into the cabin at 6-abreast to provide the same 3+3-seating like on their Boeing 737s and A320s and to enhance the strcuture with added fuel tanks to allow non-stop flights between Malta and London. Was the RJ70 bad? IMO no! Was Air Malta stupid? No! Was this venture successful? No! The Aro RJ70 was probably „misused“ and not really suited for the intented missions. It was like trying to schedule a long range variant MD-83 on a regular basis for five-hour long flights with full 172 seat payload – and the MD-80 showed that it was operating at the edge of realistic performance.

In the end, the historical evolution and decisions of an airline to take a specific aircraft-type is highly interesting (for me at least) and in many cases, a huge number of factors influenced the decision and not only fuel consumption, maintenance costs and financing or political influence.
For me, it was interesting to see, that Aer Lingus opted to take the Boeing 737-400 and Avianca Colombia was able to secure financing the introduction of eleven leased MD-83s, most of them factory new and stored as white-tails. Lovely!

Airline X ordered the Fokker 100, while companies Y and Z ordered the Boeing 737-500 and MD-87.
In later years, even historical facts and the context were adjusted to ignore the MD-80. I collected rather many memorabilia stuff over the decades and in later years (approx. the beginning of the 2000s), one airline portrait and evolution about American Airlines even accomplished the task to conceal the MD-80 in its entirety, not even a photo with an MD-80, not a single word about the „Super 80“! This is sad, because the Super 80 played a major role to develop the hub-and-spoke system and the efficiency of the MD-80 allowed American Airlines to shape their business in a very positive way and allowed them to concentrate their efforts to optimize their business with other very important aircraft-types with higher capacities as well as for fewer passengers like the Fokker 100.

Younger people are sometimes looking at me in a sceptical way and claim the MD-80 as commercially unsuccessful. Some of the new generation enthusiasts even doubt the fact that companies like Finnair or Austrian Airlines operated the DC-9 and MD-80 in a very successful way. They are not even willing to understand the respective ways of considerations which culminated in the individual decisions of airline X to order the MD-80. A good example: no one questioned the decision of Braathens to order the Boeing 737 and Fokker F28 but there is a tendency to question, why Finnair once decided to order the MD-80.
Finnair is (IMO) a very good example of decison-making), because it is known that in the beginning of the 1970s and 1980s and first half of the 1990s, there were attempts by Boeing to attract Finnair as a new custumer. Even as an enthusiast of Douglas aircraft, I would have looked at these offers in detail as „an imaginative owner of Finnair“. Be always open to other scenarios and don´t ignore the development of other aircraft. At the same time, many factors must be taken into consideration – including the current fleet-structure and there was no open skies and free market. Even the seat pitch was regulated and the frequencies and capacities offered between two cities. Additionally, due to ist geographical position, Finnair operated on of the longest routes when flying to Spain, Portugal etc..

Finnair was not blind and looked at the different scenarios, the second attempt also included the (then new) Boeing 757. A very versatile aircraft! Even the late deliveries of DC-9-51s in 1980/81 was not a reason to ignore the Boeing-offer and potential of the future Boeing 737-300! At the same time, their operational experience with the DC-8/DC-9, and DC-10 was very positive.
Finnair decided at the time that the 757 was simply too big for their needs and even very attractive operating costs and high operational flexibilty could not compensate this fact. It was a better solution to take three MD-82s originally earmarked for aeromexico and it was probably very important for McDonnell Douglas to retain Finnair as a customer and to develop the DC-10-30ER (Boeing offered the Boeing 747SP to Finnair) for non-stop flights between Helsinki and Tokyo.

The decision to take the MD-82 cleared the path for the fleet-policy of the 1980s at Finnair, while other airlines ordered the second-generation Boeing 737 and/or Airbus A320. For Finnair, it was a more than logic step to order the long range MD-83 and to order the MD-87, while for Air France, the order for A320 allowed them to replace the Boeing 727 – so no Boeing 737-400s for Air France…
Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines „suffered“ from political pressure during the 1960s to order the BAC One-Eleven. Both companies ensured their policies to decide freely from any political influence towards aircraft best-suited to their needs. The maintenance co-operation between Austrian and Swissair allowed Austrian to rise like a phoenix in a very short time, after Austrian Airlines decided to simplify their entire fleet to one single type – the DC-9-32. Expansion occured with DC-9-51s and MD-81s. Asking for MD-87s with aft service doors and operating two of the five MD-87s as MD-87ERs for long flights were the ice on the cake. The three MD-87SR´s replaced three remaining DC-9-32s in 1990 and these three aircraft became part of British Midland – a company, which selected the Boeing 737-300/-400 as their future aircraft after evaluating the MD-80 as a logical successor oft he DC-9-10/-30s.

Was the BAC One-Eleven a bad aircraft, because Lufthansa and Austrian decided against it? No.

It´s in my opinion „to easy“ to claim, that the aviation history and number of delivered aircraft as the only benchmark.

I know, that it´s a very complex topic but let us not forget to enjoy the historical evolution of airlines and some decisions had a higher impact on an individual airline than the delivery of one A380 or Boeing 787 to a big airline.

Feel free to continue this thread. I would be pleased to read interesting facts from the past. A follow-on order for another 150 A320neo-aircraft is boring. ;)

Regards
Dedicated for the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95 ehhh...Boeing 717, and DC-9: http://www.MD-80.com
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:20 am

sovietjet wrote:
What is this obsession with seeing everything unique replaced by generic, boring, wing mounted engines, white painted plastic planes?

Better question: what is it with equating nostalgia for obsolete relics of a bygone era, to aircraft enthusiasm? :roll:

The likes of the 747 and MD80 had their time.
Now they're essentially worthless on the passenger market.

Sure, I guess that give them an endearing charm, to some. But it's rather irrational to fault others for moving on.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:50 am

juliuswong wrote:
Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(

Airfast Indonesia still flies those
 
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quintinsoloviev
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:15 am

I wonder if there is any chance of a new US start-up low-cost airline that would be willing to take some of DL's and AA's MD 80/90s. Probably very cheap...
 
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SKAirbus
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:25 am

Good! The sooner these noisy, polluters are gone the better.
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:15 pm

TheEuphorian wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(

Airfast Indonesia still flies those

Their own fleet page says they don't.
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juliuswong
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:19 pm

Spacepope wrote:
TheEuphorian wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(

Airfast Indonesia still flies those

Their own fleet page says they don't.

They have one MD-803 in service PK-OCS (originated from Reno Air N834RA), flying fairly irregular service. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pk-ocs

I think booking is done through local local agent or on ground. Airfast main business are charter flight and helicopter flight for oil and gas sector in Indonesia.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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Polot
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:24 pm

quintinsoloviev wrote:
I wonder if there is any chance of a new US start-up low-cost airline that would be willing to take some of DL's and AA's MD 80/90s. Probably very cheap...

There is 0 chance. When DL and AA get rid of theirs any support for the aircraft will essentially be gone. Parts just aren’t there. Remember the MD80 is two generations old now. Its time has passed, if you want to start up an airline with cheap used planes buying older 737NG or A320s is the way to go especially as more Maxes and Neos get delivered.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:52 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
sovietjet wrote:
What is this obsession with seeing everything unique replaced by generic, boring, wing mounted engines, white painted plastic planes?

Better question: what is it with equating nostalgia for obsolete relics of a bygone era, to aircraft enthusiasm? :roll:

The likes of the 747 and MD80 had their time.
Now they're essentially worthless on the passenger market.

Sure, I guess that give them an endearing charm, to some. But it's rather irrational to fault others for moving on.


Ummm because if it weren't for these obsolete relics to pave the way for the current aircraft, that enthusiasm wouldn't even be there. I never said I think the MD-80 or 747 aren't obsolete. They are, they will be replaced of course. But some comments are just immature, as old and noisy as they are they deserve respect. Say you're at an airport watching or photographing airplanes. I don't understand how you can be excited to see the 100th 737 or A320 in a row, as opposed to an MD-80 or something else old. I understand performance, economics, bean counters and greed will inevitably make everything new and generic since the world is slowly approaching an asymptote that is wing mounted twin engined aircraft. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy and respect "the elders" so to say. It's like cars, everyone respects and admires a Corvette from the 70s, even though performance wise it is slow and clunky compared to today's Corvette.
 
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Polot
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:58 pm

sovietjet wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
sovietjet wrote:
What is this obsession with seeing everything unique replaced by generic, boring, wing mounted engines, white painted plastic planes?

Better question: what is it with equating nostalgia for obsolete relics of a bygone era, to aircraft enthusiasm? :roll:

The likes of the 747 and MD80 had their time.
Now they're essentially worthless on the passenger market.

Sure, I guess that give them an endearing charm, to some. But it's rather irrational to fault others for moving on.


Ummm because if it weren't for these obsolete relics to pave the way for the current aircraft, that enthusiasm wouldn't even be there. I never said I think the MD-80 or 747 aren't obsolete. They are, they will be replaced of course. But some comments are just immature, as old and noisy as they are they deserve respect. Say you're at an airport watching or photographing airplanes. I don't understand how you can be excited to see the 100th 737 or A320 in a row, as opposed to an MD-80 or something else old. I understand performance, economics, bean counters and greed will inevitably make everything new and generic since the world is slowly approaching an asymptote that is wing mounted twin engined aircraft. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy and respect "the elders" so to say. It's like cars, everyone respects and admires a Corvette from the 70s, even though performance wise it is slow and clunky compared to today's Corvette.

Let’s be honest though, most of that is just nostalgia because they are rare now though. Sitting at DFW watching MD-80 after MD-80 take off back in the day wasn’t any more exciting than watching 737/A320s take off now. The reason everyone hates on the 737 and A320 is because they are ubiquitous. If there were 10,000 MD90s sold and <400 A320s in service everyone here would be going gaga over the A320 and lamenting how there are so few of them versus the “boring” 737s or MD-90s everywhere. It has nothing to do with looks or placement of engines.

Liking and/or perferring 737/A320s or any other twin engine wing mounted jet doesn’t make you a “fake” enthusiast.
 
sovietjet
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:14 pm

Polot wrote:
Let’s be honest though, most of that is just nostalgia because they are rare now though. Sitting at DFW watching MD-80 after MD-80 take off back in the day wasn’t any more exciting than watching 737/A320s take off now. The reason everyone hates on the 737 and A320 is because they are ubiquitous. If there were 10,000 MD90s sold and <400 A320s in service everyone here would be going gaga over the A320 and lamenting how there are so few of them versus the “boring” 737s or MD-90s everywhere. It has nothing to do with looks or placement of engines.

Liking and/or perferring 737/A320s or any other twin engine wing mounted jet doesn’t make you a “fake” enthusiast.


Yes I agree, 10 years ago they were common enough to not gain much attention. It is time for them to be sent off in history with dignity. The DC-9 family have been flying for 50 years now. It's not a matter of being "fake" enthusiast if you like 737/A320. I like them too, but I also like the old stuff, which I think everyone should somewhat because they represent the roots of our hobby. Some decades from now, will the same people advocating for these new generation 737/320 have the same attitude when they are in their twilight? That's what I'm saying. Respect the elders.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:17 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
TheEuphorian wrote:
Airfast Indonesia still flies those

Their own fleet page says they don't.

They have one MD-803 in service PK-OCS (originated from Reno Air N834RA), flying fairly irregular service. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pk-ocs

I think booking is done through local local agent or on ground. Airfast main business are charter flight and helicopter flight for oil and gas sector in Indonesia.

Yes, but that's not an MD-90.
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Douglas DC-9
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:41 pm

Ill sure miss seeing the MD's around! Anybody remember Midwest Express' nice fleet of Dc-9's and MD-80's?!
 
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MD80
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:00 pm

Douglas DC-9 wrote:
Ill sure miss seeing the MD's around! Anybody remember Midwest Express' nice fleet of Dc-9's and MD-80's?!


Of course! :smile: For many years, Midwest Express had 60-seat DC-9-10s, 84-seat DC-9-30s and two 112-seat MD-88s (originally earmarked for Wardair Canada). Later, Midwest Express added eight 116-seat MD-81s from Japan Air System.
Dedicated for the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95 ehhh...Boeing 717, and DC-9: http://www.MD-80.com
 
juliuswong
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:05 am

Spacepope wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Their own fleet page says they don't.

They have one MD-83 in service PK-OCS (originated from Reno Air N834RA), flying fairly irregular service. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pk-ocs

I think booking is done through local local agent or on ground. Airfast main business are charter flight and helicopter flight for oil and gas sector in Indonesia.

Yes, but that's not an MD-90.

Yes, all the MD-90 which used to be in Asia have left to Delta, at least those in good condition. There are three MD-90 left rotting at CGK, all ex-Lion Air PK-LIL, PK-LIO, and PK-LIP. PK-LIL and PK-LIO were both damaged in accident and were never repaired.

All five Lion Air MD-90 (the other two being PK-LIM and PK-LIK) were ex-Reno Air.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:18 am

I'm lucky enough to work the MD-80 twice a week at my local station. Absolutely none of my coworkers are sad to see the plane go, but I am, and I take pictures of each one that comes in. :)

I recently flew two legs on one as well, hopefully will get more flights in before theyre all retired.
 
DFW17L
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:20 am

Just flew AA 2779 DFW-IAH seated in 3B. From that seat, I marvel at the Maddog's speed and quiet hush. When I'm on the ground, well, I won't miss those JT8Ds. Only thing worse was the 727 3-holer.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:32 am

MD80 wrote:
In my experience, there is a tendency of „negative consideration“ about MD-80s. I even refuse to contribute in one big specific German aviation forum to participate with topics and/or news about the MD-80, MD-90, Boeing 717, and DC-9 because it´s a waste of time and there is an approach of ignorance and unasked need of justification, why airline X once ordered the MD-80 instead of the Boeing 737. Such a question is often not asked to exchange facts and to view a specific evaluation in a dialogue to „collect as many information as possible“. It´s rather a way to find „a mistake“.
I would never claim a decision of an airline to order aircraft X as a mistake without a thorough research to claim facts. For example, I could claim my opinion, that it was a rather stupid decision by Air Malta (due to many factors) to order the Avro RJ70, to put 82 seats into the cabin at 6-abreast to provide the same 3+3-seating like on their Boeing 737s and A320s and to enhance the strcuture with added fuel tanks to allow non-stop flights between Malta and London. Was the RJ70 bad? IMO no! Was Air Malta stupid? No! Was this venture successful? No! The Aro RJ70 was probably „misused“ and not really suited for the intented missions. It was like trying to schedule a long range variant MD-83 on a regular basis for five-hour long flights with full 172 seat payload – and the MD-80 showed that it was operating at the edge of realistic performance.

In the end, the historical evolution and decisions of an airline to take a specific aircraft-type is highly interesting (for me at least) and in many cases, a huge number of factors influenced the decision and not only fuel consumption, maintenance costs and financing or political influence.
For me, it was interesting to see, that Aer Lingus opted to take the Boeing 737-400 and Avianca Colombia was able to secure financing the introduction of eleven leased MD-83s, most of them factory new and stored as white-tails. Lovely!

Airline X ordered the Fokker 100, while companies Y and Z ordered the Boeing 737-500 and MD-87.
In later years, even historical facts and the context were adjusted to ignore the MD-80. I collected rather many memorabilia stuff over the decades and in later years (approx. the beginning of the 2000s), one airline portrait and evolution about American Airlines even accomplished the task to conceal the MD-80 in its entirety, not even a photo with an MD-80, not a single word about the „Super 80“! This is sad, because the Super 80 played a major role to develop the hub-and-spoke system and the efficiency of the MD-80 allowed American Airlines to shape their business in a very positive way and allowed them to concentrate their efforts to optimize their business with other very important aircraft-types with higher capacities as well as for fewer passengers like the Fokker 100.

Younger people are sometimes looking at me in a sceptical way and claim the MD-80 as commercially unsuccessful. Some of the new generation enthusiasts even doubt the fact that companies like Finnair or Austrian Airlines operated the DC-9 and MD-80 in a very successful way. They are not even willing to understand the respective ways of considerations which culminated in the individual decisions of airline X to order the MD-80. A good example: no one questioned the decision of Braathens to order the Boeing 737 and Fokker F28 but there is a tendency to question, why Finnair once decided to order the MD-80.
Finnair is (IMO) a very good example of decison-making), because it is known that in the beginning of the 1970s and 1980s and first half of the 1990s, there were attempts by Boeing to attract Finnair as a new custumer. Even as an enthusiast of Douglas aircraft, I would have looked at these offers in detail as „an imaginative owner of Finnair“. Be always open to other scenarios and don´t ignore the development of other aircraft. At the same time, many factors must be taken into consideration – including the current fleet-structure and there was no open skies and free market. Even the seat pitch was regulated and the frequencies and capacities offered between two cities. Additionally, due to ist geographical position, Finnair operated on of the longest routes when flying to Spain, Portugal etc..

Finnair was not blind and looked at the different scenarios, the second attempt also included the (then new) Boeing 757. A very versatile aircraft! Even the late deliveries of DC-9-51s in 1980/81 was not a reason to ignore the Boeing-offer and potential of the future Boeing 737-300! At the same time, their operational experience with the DC-8/DC-9, and DC-10 was very positive.
Finnair decided at the time that the 757 was simply too big for their needs and even very attractive operating costs and high operational flexibilty could not compensate this fact. It was a better solution to take three MD-82s originally earmarked for aeromexico and it was probably very important for McDonnell Douglas to retain Finnair as a customer and to develop the DC-10-30ER (Boeing offered the Boeing 747SP to Finnair) for non-stop flights between Helsinki and Tokyo.

The decision to take the MD-82 cleared the path for the fleet-policy of the 1980s at Finnair, while other airlines ordered the second-generation Boeing 737 and/or Airbus A320. For Finnair, it was a more than logic step to order the long range MD-83 and to order the MD-87, while for Air France, the order for A320 allowed them to replace the Boeing 727 – so no Boeing 737-400s for Air France…
Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines „suffered“ from political pressure during the 1960s to order the BAC One-Eleven. Both companies ensured their policies to decide freely from any political influence towards aircraft best-suited to their needs. The maintenance co-operation between Austrian and Swissair allowed Austrian to rise like a phoenix in a very short time, after Austrian Airlines decided to simplify their entire fleet to one single type – the DC-9-32. Expansion occured with DC-9-51s and MD-81s. Asking for MD-87s with aft service doors and operating two of the five MD-87s as MD-87ERs for long flights were the ice on the cake. The three MD-87SR´s replaced three remaining DC-9-32s in 1990 and these three aircraft became part of British Midland – a company, which selected the Boeing 737-300/-400 as their future aircraft after evaluating the MD-80 as a logical successor oft he DC-9-10/-30s.

Was the BAC One-Eleven a bad aircraft, because Lufthansa and Austrian decided against it? No.

It´s in my opinion „to easy“ to claim, that the aviation history and number of delivered aircraft as the only benchmark.

I know, that it´s a very complex topic but let us not forget to enjoy the historical evolution of airlines and some decisions had a higher impact on an individual airline than the delivery of one A380 or Boeing 787 to a big airline.

Feel free to continue this thread. I would be pleased to read interesting facts from the past. A follow-on order for another 150 A320neo-aircraft is boring. ;)

Regards

The historical reasons are amazingly interesting! I even read about how Douglas taking a mistress was the beginning of the end.

The MD-80 did the job when oil was low in price. No one knew about the shift coming. For the point of discussion, in today's dollars anything over $40/bbl is pricey.

But it is time.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:42 am

DFW17L wrote:
Just flew AA 2779 DFW-IAH seated in 3B. From that seat, I marvel at the Maddog's speed and quiet hush. When I'm on the ground, well, I won't miss those JT8Ds. Only thing worse was the 727 3-holer.



I see that sentiment a lot...and yet...the JT8D is my favorite aircraft engine.

Gimme loud smokey classic jet engines anyday. Reminds me of the era I grew up in where I first fell in love with aviation. <3 I miss those days.

I'd be happy as a clam in modern times if I was a huge fan of A320s and 738s...but...I'm a fan of the classics XD
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:26 am

sovietjet wrote:
Ummm because if it weren't for these obsolete relics to pave the way for the current aircraft, that enthusiasm wouldn't even be there.

But if that's the stance you want to take, then know that like all progenitors: they need to die off, and allow ensuing generations to flourish-- hence the good riddance.


sovietjet wrote:
I never said I think the MD-80 or 747 aren't obsolete. They are

Then we're done here. :razz:


sovietjet wrote:
But some comments are just immature

So is pointless whining


sovietjet wrote:
as old and noisy as they are they deserve respect.

They're inanimate objects, they don't "deserve" anything.


sovietjet wrote:
I don't understand how

Then you can stop right there-- because that indicates a deficiency on your behalf, not anyone else's.


sovietjet wrote:
I understand performance, economics, bean counters and greed will inevitably make everything new and generic since the world is slowly approaching an asymptote that is wing mounted twin engined aircraft.

So in other words, you don't understand the concept of convergent evolution. Fair enough.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
smithbs
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:34 am

Don't forget the AS MD-80s! My last flight on a MD-80 was on AS, SEA-SMF and back. I sat forward of the wing on the two-seat side with my wife and enjoyed a super quiet and smooth-as-glass ascent out of Seattle on a beautiful morning (once above the low drizzle clouds, that is). But those aircraft left AS 10 years ago now.
 
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ghost77
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:30 am

Wow, seeing the link, Aeronaves TSM will become the 3rd operator worldwide.

That list is not updated, but current fleet with few conversions going on are:

49342 - 1337
49663 - 1437
49558 - 1451
49562 - 1475
49804 - 1669
49990 - 1770
49941 - 1793
53287 - 2006
53288 - 2011
53289 - 2012
53292 - 2020
53293 - 2021

Most of them, many ex. AA here being converted as we speak.

Great aircraft! I loved to fly it with AM and sit at the front, when empty, those things felt like rockets!}

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!

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