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PennPal
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:36 pm

I live close to PGD, and many Allegiant flights begin their approaches over my house. I was delighted to see one of their MD80's flying low overhead yesterday, especially since PGD has become an A320-only airport, and plane spotting there is now pretty boring.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:39 pm

There are now a total of 373 MD-80/90 on airfleets. Much of the drop has been Allegiant retirements.

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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:47 pm

Polot wrote:
quintinsoloviev wrote:
I wonder if there is any chance of a new US start-up low-cost airline that would be willing to take some of DL's and AA's MD 80/90s. Probably very cheap...

There is 0 chance. When DL and AA get rid of theirs any support for the aircraft will essentially be gone. Parts just aren’t there. Remember the MD80 is two generations old now. Its time has passed, if you want to start up an airline with cheap used planes buying older 737NG or A320s is the way to go especially as more Maxes and Neos get delivered.

Parts today are scavanged for the MD-80. AA had a stockpile when they announced the fleet retirement in IiRC 2013) and cancelled support contracts on the spot. DL had already signed up for 2014 support, but when they cancelled, that was it for part production (Delta did a last one and done part order to tide them over for years.)

Now, consumables such as breaks, tires, window seals, and a few other regularly purchased bitems are still in production. G4 bet incorrectly that AA would release parts cheap, so that pushed them to early retirement (ironically freeing up parts for everyone else once these planes are scrapped).

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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:10 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Polot wrote:
quintinsoloviev wrote:
I wonder if there is any chance of a new US start-up low-cost airline that would be willing to take some of DL's and AA's MD 80/90s. Probably very cheap...

There is 0 chance. When DL and AA get rid of theirs any support for the aircraft will essentially be gone. Parts just aren’t there. Remember the MD80 is two generations old now. Its time has passed, if you want to start up an airline with cheap used planes buying older 737NG or A320s is the way to go especially as more Maxes and Neos get delivered.

Parts today are scavanged for the MD-80. AA had a stockpile when they announced the fleet retirement in IiRC 2013) and cancelled support contracts on the spot. DL had already signed up for 2014 support, but when they cancelled, that was it for part production (Delta did a last one and done part order to tide them over for years.)

Now, consumables such as breaks, tires, window seals, and a few other regularly purchased bitems are still in production. G4 bet incorrectly that AA would release parts cheap, so that pushed them to early retirement (ironically freeing up parts for everyone else once these planes are scrapped).

Lightsaber



I think the influx of used A319s/320s is what pushed Allegiant to retire the 80s early. Air Berlin and Monorch collapsing helped their cause a lot and allowed them to go forward with the ambitious retirement schedule of the 80.
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:30 pm

cbphoto wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Polot wrote:
There is 0 chance. When DL and AA get rid of theirs any support for the aircraft will essentially be gone. Parts just aren’t there. Remember the MD80 is two generations old now. Its time has passed, if you want to start up an airline with cheap used planes buying older 737NG or A320s is the way to go especially as more Maxes and Neos get delivered.

Parts today are scavanged for the MD-80. AA had a stockpile when they announced the fleet retirement in IiRC 2013) and cancelled support contracts on the spot. DL had already signed up for 2014 support, but when they cancelled, that was it for part production (Delta did a last one and done part order to tide them over for years.)

Now, consumables such as breaks, tires, window seals, and a few other regularly purchased bitems are still in production. G4 bet incorrectly that AA would release parts cheap, so that pushed them to early retirement (ironically freeing up parts for everyone else once these planes are scrapped).

Lightsaber



I think the influx of used A319s/320s is what pushed Allegiant to retire the 80s early. Air Berlin and Monorch collapsing helped their cause a lot and allowed them to go forward with the ambitious retirement schedule of the 80.

No disagreement that used CEO pricing *pulled* them to replace MD-80s. But they are being pushed by pilot availability (IIRC the new contract brings up rates enough to fix that) and MD-80 parts.

The MD-80 part market, specifically engine parts, is not healthy at this time. Some vendors have *really* jacked up rebuild pricing to the point DL had to start rebuilding parts they didn't want to (in the past it was cheaper to send batches to vendors). With the PW1100G, PW1500G, PW816, LEAP-1B/1B, Trent-XWB, T1000 rush, T7000, GEnX, and Passport ramp up; GE9X development, CFM-56 ramp down, V2500 ramp down, and bidding on the 797, An engine out of contract with hit and miss low volume work becomes a distraction. The minimum guaranteed buy to keep an engine under contract is 25 shipsets. That hasn't happened for years....

Pratt no longer supports the JT8D. This is the first in service engine I'm aware of that happening and that means a black eye for Pratt. Meh... They need to focus on many other projects. AA was brutal in stopping payments and there was no business case for DL to continue. That left everyone else a big Bill to pick up and that isn't in the JT8D business plan.

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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:38 pm

MD80 wrote:
In my experience, there is a tendency of „negative consideration“ about MD-80s. I even refuse to contribute in one big specific German aviation forum to participate with topics and/or news about the MD-80, MD-90, Boeing 717, and DC-9 because it´s a waste of time and there is an approach of ignorance and unasked need of justification, why airline X once ordered the MD-80 instead of the Boeing 737. Such a question is often not asked to exchange facts and to view a specific evaluation in a dialogue to „collect as many information as possible“. It´s rather a way to find „a mistake“.
I would never claim a decision of an airline to order aircraft X as a mistake without a thorough research to claim facts. For example, I could claim my opinion, that it was a rather stupid decision by Air Malta (due to many factors) to order the Avro RJ70, to put 82 seats into the cabin at 6-abreast to provide the same 3+3-seating like on their Boeing 737s and A320s and to enhance the strcuture with added fuel tanks to allow non-stop flights between Malta and London. Was the RJ70 bad? IMO no! Was Air Malta stupid? No! Was this venture successful? No! The Aro RJ70 was probably „misused“ and not really suited for the intented missions. It was like trying to schedule a long range variant MD-83 on a regular basis for five-hour long flights with full 172 seat payload – and the MD-80 showed that it was operating at the edge of realistic performance.

In the end, the historical evolution and decisions of an airline to take a specific aircraft-type is highly interesting (for me at least) and in many cases, a huge number of factors influenced the decision and not only fuel consumption, maintenance costs and financing or political influence.
For me, it was interesting to see, that Aer Lingus opted to take the Boeing 737-400 and Avianca Colombia was able to secure financing the introduction of eleven leased MD-83s, most of them factory new and stored as white-tails. Lovely!

Airline X ordered the Fokker 100, while companies Y and Z ordered the Boeing 737-500 and MD-87.
In later years, even historical facts and the context were adjusted to ignore the MD-80. I collected rather many memorabilia stuff over the decades and in later years (approx. the beginning of the 2000s), one airline portrait and evolution about American Airlines even accomplished the task to conceal the MD-80 in its entirety, not even a photo with an MD-80, not a single word about the „Super 80“! This is sad, because the Super 80 played a major role to develop the hub-and-spoke system and the efficiency of the MD-80 allowed American Airlines to shape their business in a very positive way and allowed them to concentrate their efforts to optimize their business with other very important aircraft-types with higher capacities as well as for fewer passengers like the Fokker 100.

Younger people are sometimes looking at me in a sceptical way and claim the MD-80 as commercially unsuccessful. Some of the new generation enthusiasts even doubt the fact that companies like Finnair or Austrian Airlines operated the DC-9 and MD-80 in a very successful way. They are not even willing to understand the respective ways of considerations which culminated in the individual decisions of airline X to order the MD-80. A good example: no one questioned the decision of Braathens to order the Boeing 737 and Fokker F28 but there is a tendency to question, why Finnair once decided to order the MD-80.
Finnair is (IMO) a very good example of decison-making), because it is known that in the beginning of the 1970s and 1980s and first half of the 1990s, there were attempts by Boeing to attract Finnair as a new custumer. Even as an enthusiast of Douglas aircraft, I would have looked at these offers in detail as „an imaginative owner of Finnair“. Be always open to other scenarios and don´t ignore the development of other aircraft. At the same time, many factors must be taken into consideration – including the current fleet-structure and there was no open skies and free market. Even the seat pitch was regulated and the frequencies and capacities offered between two cities. Additionally, due to ist geographical position, Finnair operated on of the longest routes when flying to Spain, Portugal etc..

Finnair was not blind and looked at the different scenarios, the second attempt also included the (then new) Boeing 757. A very versatile aircraft! Even the late deliveries of DC-9-51s in 1980/81 was not a reason to ignore the Boeing-offer and potential of the future Boeing 737-300! At the same time, their operational experience with the DC-8/DC-9, and DC-10 was very positive.
Finnair decided at the time that the 757 was simply too big for their needs and even very attractive operating costs and high operational flexibilty could not compensate this fact. It was a better solution to take three MD-82s originally earmarked for aeromexico and it was probably very important for McDonnell Douglas to retain Finnair as a customer and to develop the DC-10-30ER (Boeing offered the Boeing 747SP to Finnair) for non-stop flights between Helsinki and Tokyo.

The decision to take the MD-82 cleared the path for the fleet-policy of the 1980s at Finnair, while other airlines ordered the second-generation Boeing 737 and/or Airbus A320. For Finnair, it was a more than logic step to order the long range MD-83 and to order the MD-87, while for Air France, the order for A320 allowed them to replace the Boeing 727 – so no Boeing 737-400s for Air France…
Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines „suffered“ from political pressure during the 1960s to order the BAC One-Eleven. Both companies ensured their policies to decide freely from any political influence towards aircraft best-suited to their needs. The maintenance co-operation between Austrian and Swissair allowed Austrian to rise like a phoenix in a very short time, after Austrian Airlines decided to simplify their entire fleet to one single type – the DC-9-32. Expansion occured with DC-9-51s and MD-81s. Asking for MD-87s with aft service doors and operating two of the five MD-87s as MD-87ERs for long flights were the ice on the cake. The three MD-87SR´s replaced three remaining DC-9-32s in 1990 and these three aircraft became part of British Midland – a company, which selected the Boeing 737-300/-400 as their future aircraft after evaluating the MD-80 as a logical successor oft he DC-9-10/-30s.

Was the BAC One-Eleven a bad aircraft, because Lufthansa and Austrian decided against it? No.

It´s in my opinion „to easy“ to claim, that the aviation history and number of delivered aircraft as the only benchmark.

I know, that it´s a very complex topic but let us not forget to enjoy the historical evolution of airlines and some decisions had a higher impact on an individual airline than the delivery of one A380 or Boeing 787 to a big airline.

Feel free to continue this thread. I would be pleased to read interesting facts from the past. A follow-on order for another 150 A320neo-aircraft is boring. ;)

Regards


I appreciate what you wrote. Do you know by chance, there is an AA SUPER 80 with engines intact sitting in KBP airport. I asked on Polish group which aircraft this is and nobody answered. Do you know about it by chance.

Edit> According to internet, this frame is N70504 .
Last edited by Alphazone on Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
N664US The Spirit of Beijing
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N674US City of Shanghai
N675NW Spirit of the Northwest People
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:52 pm

Anyone know how many have been converted to freighters (if at all).

Interested in this as these aircraft could be great for an idea I have....
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:44 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
Anyone know how many have been converted to freighters (if at all).

Interested in this as these aircraft could be great for an idea I have....

Everts operates two frames, and UsaJet has one. Not sure how many others there are, if any
Image
Image
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:34 pm

diverted wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
Anyone know how many have been converted to freighters (if at all).

Interested in this as these aircraft could be great for an idea I have....

Everts operates two frames, and UsaJet has one. Not sure how many others there are, if any
Image
Image

Everts has orders for 5 total, and Aeronaves has orders for 9 frames (with at least 4 delivered)
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:55 pm

An all-analog beast from the days of the slide-rule. RIP.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:56 pm

Sad to see them go.

So much more pleasing on the eye than 737s etc.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:11 pm

Spacepope wrote:
diverted wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
Anyone know how many have been converted to freighters (if at all).

Interested in this as these aircraft could be great for an idea I have....

Everts operates two frames, and UsaJet has one. Not sure how many others there are, if any
Image
Image

Everts has orders for 5 total, and Aeronaves has orders for 9 frames (with at least 4 delivered)


Thanks guys. Will take a look into this more.

I have to say, it looks awesome as a cargo aircraft.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:31 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
MSPbrandon wrote:
Good Riddance.

Isn't this an aviation enthusiast website? The MD-80 is a great aircraft. I have travelled from Europe to the United States with the sole purpose of flying on the MD-80 of American Airlines. The journey from Portland via Dallas to Philadelphia took almost six hours and I loved every minute of it. I will take an MD-80 over almost any other aircraft type.


It’s a novelty to you because you obviously live somewhere where they aren’t plentiful. I lived in STL in the days where it was still an AA hub and you couldn’t get anywhere without flying on an MD80. Suffice it to say, I’ve flown on them a couple hundred times between TW, AA, DL, and G4, so, no, I won’t miss them either. I'll take a modern Airbus narrowbody every day of the week over a rattley, noisy POS MD80.

sovietjet wrote:
Ummm because if it weren't for these obsolete relics to pave the way for the current aircraft, that enthusiasm wouldn't even be there. I never said I think the MD-80 or 747 aren't obsolete. They are, they will be replaced of course. But some comments are just immature, as old and noisy as they are they deserve respect.


Deserve respect? Please. It's a god damn piece of metal, glass and rubber. Why are you getting so upset over someone else's opinion?
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:27 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
Anyone know how many have been converted to freighters (if at all).

Interested in this as these aircraft could be great for an idea I have....



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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:38 pm

smithbs wrote:
Don't forget the AS MD-80s! My last flight on a MD-80 was on AS, SEA-SMF and back. I sat forward of the wing on the two-seat side with my wife and enjoyed a super quiet and smooth-as-glass ascent out of Seattle on a beautiful morning (once above the low drizzle clouds, that is). But those aircraft left AS 10 years ago now.


I rode an AS MD-80 once, 11.5 years ago. It was SEA-ANC in January, and I was seated near the back, immediately in front of the engine outside my window. The approach over Prince William Sound was some of the roughest flying I've experienced, and several times the pilots applied a lot of power to get out of whatever hole they were in. Eight feet from my head. Wow.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:41 am

Crazy to see the old girl getting so rare. I love these aircraft but losing them isn’t the end of the world to me. They’re quite nice up front but I spent 12 hours 4 rows from the back of a mad dog in one day and that was rough. Airbus narrow bodies are definitely nicer just not as fun!

This machine does deserve respect though. It may be metal and rubber but every airplane has soul and personality and the MD80/90s was great. There has always been something special about it. It’s like the old dog that just doesn’t want to stop working for it’s owner. Sorry for going on. Just a lot of memories of these birds. Some good and some bad but either way it’s a great airplane in my book.
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:47 am

MSPbrandon wrote:
Good Riddance.


The MD80/MD90 series is certainly a far nicer Aircraft to fly on than the awful CRJ's that are currently flying.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:56 am

sovietjet wrote:
MSPbrandon wrote:
Good Riddance.


Ah yes, the obligatory hating on a classic real airplane that actually makes noise and smoke and has some character. What happened to the real aviation fans on this site? What is this obsession with seeing everything unique replaced by generic, boring, wing mounted engines, white painted plastic planes?


This has been discussed on A.net in the past. There are people including me who thought that the AA MD-80s have the most comfortable coach seat in the US on the two-seat side.
 
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afterburner
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:05 am

juliuswong wrote:
Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(

MD80 used to be the workhorse for Lion Air.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:20 am

kabq737 wrote:
Crazy to see the old girl getting so rare. I love these aircraft but losing them isn’t the end of the world to me. They’re quite nice up front but I spent 12 hours 4 rows from the back of a mad dog in one day and that was rough. Airbus narrow bodies are definitely nicer just not as fun!

This machine does deserve respect though. It may be metal and rubber but every airplane has soul and personality and the MD80/90s was great. There has always been something special about it. It’s like the old dog that just doesn’t want to stop working for it’s owner. Sorry for going on. Just a lot of memories of these birds. Some good and some bad but either way it’s a great airplane in my book.

Every aircraft has its time.

On the plus side, it enables mad spotters (like me at times.....) in their endless quest to go hunting down rare frames. As old types die off, the thrill starts of chasing the last of its kind. Look how many took this to extremes by travelling to Iran so they could ride the last 707s in commercial service!

With me it was the last genuine DC-9 passing through our local airport (a Series 30 off to the Gulf) as well as a particularly madcap chase one day to catch an original 747-100 just so I could hear the engines one last time!
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:44 am

777PHX wrote:
Deserve respect? Please. It's a god damn piece of metal, glass and rubber. Why are you getting so upset over someone else's opinion?


It's actually a relatively complex and sophisticated piece of engineering that is an important testament to the aviation history of humanity that has successfully propelled millions of humans across the planet at hundreds of miles per hour in ways that were never conceived of outside of fantasy writing just a century ago. This particular plane and its predecessor have been ubiquitous in commercial aviation for decades and are woven into its history. How utterly spoiled we've become (on an airliner enthusiast site no less) if we can so casually dismiss one of the first broadly commercially viable twin engine narrowbodies and technology that played a role in changing the face of this planet if we simply dismiss them as "god damn pieces of metal" in their penultimate years, not to mention the disrespect it conveys to those who spent their careers working on them in all capacities. The "noisy POS" comment relative to the "modern" Airbus narrowbodies is pretty rich considering that you can easily get on an in service Airbus that is 12-14 years newer and be treated to a full on chorus of its barking dog and whirring noises and that rattles like an old spring mattress on taxi, when you can get into a 1980's build MD8X that is one of the quietest planes in the sky forward of the exit row.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:58 am

afterburner wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Delta has shed few MD-90 for past few weeks. Well at least one can still get it in US soil, there is nil in South East Asia, Asia for that matter. =(

MD80 used to be the workhorse for Lion Air.

Yes, back in those days when Lion Air was starting up, MD-80s/90s really came in handy after their short dabble with Yak-42(!) and A310. They were one of the largest MD-80s series operators in Asia, with a total of 25 aircraft (19 MD-82, 1 MD-83 and 5 MD-90). Out of these, they crashed two MD-82 and two MD-90.
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:14 am

My last jet ride was on N403NV last January; it was stored a month later. Almost 30 years old, first serving AM.

If I could turn back time.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:32 am

Afraid of them ever since the Alaskan crash, the whole plane hanging on that single jack screw, no fail safe back up system. The check list test of pushing elevators up & down is useless if the tipping point of failure happens later in flight. Not a warn fuzzy feeling.
Or is common among all other aircraft.
 
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:32 pm

quintinsoloviev wrote:
I wonder if there is any chance of a new US start-up low-cost airline that would be willing to take some of DL's and AA's MD 80/90s. Probably very cheap...

Zero chance. As others have stated, support for both the airframe and the engine has dried up. This is driven by the massive upgrades to the avionics package that would be required to operate the aircraft beyond the 2020 deadline. This mandate I think only applies to the US and Europe, but it kills any support for other regions.

If Delta or AA had gone through with the upgrades there would be a possible secondary market for the aircraft. I know Delta looked very hard at doing the upgrades but the supplier for the package could not come through and by then the timeline was too tight to find another package. Plus the cost involved were not justified in the end.It was just more reasonable to purchase the C Series and more A321. I don't know how far AA got into the upgrade proposal.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:34 pm

777PHX wrote:
It’s a novelty to you because you obviously live somewhere where they aren’t plentiful. I lived in STL in the days where it was still an AA hub and you couldn’t get anywhere without flying on an MD80.

It's not so much novelty, it's more nostalgia. Back in the day European skies also saw large numbers of MD80's. Alitalia and SAS each operated almost one hundred of the type. Austrian Airlines, Finnair, Iberia, Meridiana, Spanair and Swissair also spring to mind. I am pretty sure there were more operators.

777PHX wrote:
Suffice it to say, I’ve flown on them a couple hundred times between TW, AA, DL, and G4, so, no, I won’t miss them either.

So far I have logged twenty MD80 flights on Alitalia, American Airlines, Finnair, SAS and Spanair. They are all cherished memories for me.

777PHX wrote:
I'll take a modern Airbus narrowbody every day of the week over a rattley, noisy POS MD80.

Not me. The MD80 in front of the wing is one of the best (quietest) rides available.

I had to look POS up. It conveniently also stands for Positively Outstanding Service.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:01 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
777PHX wrote:
It’s a novelty to you because you obviously live somewhere where they aren’t plentiful. I lived in STL in the days where it was still an AA hub and you couldn’t get anywhere without flying on an MD80.

It's not so much novelty, it's more nostalgia. Back in the day European skies also saw large numbers of MD80's. Alitalia and SAS each operated almost one hundred of the type. Austrian Airlines, Finnair, Iberia, Meridiana, Spanair and Swissair also spring to mind. I am pretty sure there were more operators.

777PHX wrote:
Suffice it to say, I’ve flown on them a couple hundred times between TW, AA, DL, and G4, so, no, I won’t miss them either.

So far I have logged twenty MD80 flights on Alitalia, American Airlines, Finnair, SAS and Spanair. They are all cherished memories for me.

777PHX wrote:
I'll take a modern Airbus narrowbody every day of the week over a rattley, noisy POS MD80.

Not me. The MD80 in front of the wing is one of the best (quietest) rides available.

I had to look POS up. It conveniently also stands for Positively Outstanding Service.

I avoid MD-80s because I only pay for the front on flights longer than MD-80 range. I've been stuck by the engines. As much of an engine nut as I am, it is too much even with Bose headphones.

The front, sure. By the plane isn't all fat seats for a reason. I'm sad such a classic design is going, but the end is neigh and the very back is horrible. Unacceptable in my book.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
a350lover
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:33 pm

Definitely the best classic design ever to me.

Despite it broke my heart when I saw it falling down back in 2008 in Madrid, it'll be for sure ever one of my favorites. Love it from nose to tail.
 
Wacker1000
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:56 pm

raylee67 wrote:
The MD80 has already achieved an amazing feat that AA would have started to massively retire the 737-800 before all their MD80s are retired, considering 737-800 was ordered as a replacement for some of the MD80.


Except the 737 did succeed at replacing AA's MD80 fleet.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:21 pm

transaeroyyz wrote:
Afraid of them ever since the Alaskan crash, the whole plane hanging on that single jack screw, no fail safe back up system. The check list test of pushing elevators up & down is useless if the tipping point of failure happens later in flight. Not a warn fuzzy feeling.
Or is common among all other aircraft.


Suggest you go AMTRAK. Every jet has a jack screw to drive the stab, usually back-up power system, but the jack screw and nut drive is the standard and is, mechanically, a single point of failure for everything from a Lear to a 747. Must meet FAA standard as a structural item.

GF
 
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RobK
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:56 pm

raylee67 wrote:
The MD80 has already achieved an amazing feat that AA would have started to massively retire the 737-800 before all their MD80s are retired, considering 737-800 was ordered as a replacement for some of the MD80.

alex0easy wrote:
Taiwan's civil aviation authorities are considering to fix regulations so that pax planes cannot be over 26 years old.
https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/ ... 3/1215945/

I guess FAT's MD-80s can't stay for long.

FAT is partitioning the local authorities to extend special dispensation for them to fly the MD80 until 2020. They said it is impossible for them to replace all MD80s within the next few months due to the need to train all the pilots with a new aircraft type. It is possible that the airline will shut down if they are forced to retire all MD80 this year.


FAT was supposed to be getting some brand new 737NGs on lease to replace them but their first one, B-28066, sat awaiting delivery at BFI for some time in full livery before eventually going to SpiceJet on lease instead. I don't recall the true reason ever coming in public over why it all fell apart other than a "disagreement" between FAT and Air Lease Corp.

Image
BFICPICT2496B28066sm copy by Joe, on Flickr
 
Marik154
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:19 pm

Ukraine still has 2 active MD83, UR-COC (Bravo Airways) and UR-CPB (Anda). The 3rd flying frame UR-CPR had a runway accident 2 weeks ago, and is unlikely to ever see service again.
I was lucky to fly on Oscar Charlie in April to Sharm, great aircraft and had a new-ish seats inside, which were comfortable.
However, there are about 4-5 MD's in Iran Air colors in KBP and UR-COU looks more or less in tact, just without engines, so maybe these could be substituted for the loss of CPR.
Anda, this week announced plans to swap their MD for A319, so these great machines could be gone rather soon.
 
PennPal
Posts: 247
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:20 pm

I was thrilled to see a MD flying over my house on final into PGD last Thursday, especially since PGD has become A320-only recently with Allegiant. What a beautiful sight...such a graceful looking bird. I also had the pleasure of flying one from PIE to ABE last year, and will again this fall ATL-BUF on Delta. I go out of my way to find flights they serve...love the 2-3 seating...
 
DDR
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:48 pm

From a flight attendant perspective, years ago they were not a bad aircraft to work, The nice double galley in the back had plenty of storage room and was set up nicely. Once the airlines started ripping out ovens and storage space and replacing most of the rear galley with more seats, the plane became something that no one wants to work. Luckily at my base we haven't had the plane for years. But for the first ten years or so, it was a nice plane.

It was certainly not the most hated plane by our flight attendants though. That honor went to the F100
 
jghealey
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:44 pm

MD80 wrote:
AirbusA6 wrote:
Virtually none left in Europe, looking at that list Iran will soon be the place to go to see MD80s!


I think, that the MD-80 is (at the moment?) the most widely used civilian jetliner in Iran. However, the MD-80 will probably be replaced by newer aircraft within the next years.

Years ago, I responded several times to complaints (here in the forum and as responses to e-mails) about MD-80s, that the MD-80 is on her way out and we only need some patience. Actually, the number of active MD-80s will drastically dwindle during the next few years.

Regards


You're right. The MD80s are being replaced by ATR72-600s which aren't affected by the new sanctions apparenty.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Fewer than 400 MD-80/90 on airfleets

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:36 pm

By my calculations:
Total MD-80: 308 (airfleets subtracting out DL's MD-90s now at 49).

DL MD-80s: 99.
There now are no opperators with an active fleet over a hundred.
AA: 34 (airfleets-production summary-Douglas MD-80/90).
G4:. 25:(I know, some parked, but still registered).

We are only a few months away from less than three hundred MD-80s in service. :(

Late edit, in my OP post I noted soon DL would have less than a hundred. Well, a retirement of about one per month since then has been all the fleet removal!

G4's end of the year retirement will be more abrupt. And ironically, free up parts allowing AA and DL to buy spares... Not the order I predicted at all as I thought G4 would be the last of the US opperators. Huh... It is good to benchmark predictions.
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.

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