A380MSN004
Topic Author
Posts: 372
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:06 am

Hi everyone, recently flown on Norwegian between Europe and LA.
Spoke a bit with the flight attendants and discover they are not based in Europe but based in Miami.

My question are :
What AOC Norwegian use for his Transatlantic flights? US AOC that allows them to hire US based flights attendants?
EU AOC?
Norway AOC which allow to hire US based people?

Thanks for your feedbacks,
 
a340crew
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:01 pm

Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) for the 787 flights. Crew bases are FLL, JFK, LGW, BCN, FCO and BKK.

Norwegian Air International (D8) operates the 737 Max flights from Europe to the east coast. Bases in PVD, SWF, EDI and DUB.

All the crew members are employed by local contract companies of the country they are based in. For the USA crews this is OSM Aviation. They are US employees with US taxes taken out and work rules.
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:12 pm

a340crew wrote:
Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) for the 787 flights. Crew bases are FLL, JFK, LGW, BCN, FCO and BKK.

Norwegian Air International (D8) operates the 737 Max flights from Europe to the east coast. Bases in PVD, SWF, EDI and DUB.

All the crew members are employed by local contract companies of the country they are based in. For the USA crews this is OSM Aviation. They are US employees with US taxes taken out and work rules.


There is also CDG and the new LAX base.

DY Bases(including the opening dates):

BKK (2013)
JFK (2013)
FLL (2013)
LGW (2014)
CDG (2016)
BCN (2017)
FCO (2017)
LAX (2018)

D8 Bases:

PTP (2015) (Seasonal)
FDF (2015) (Seasonal)
EDI (2017)
SWF (2017)
PVD (2017)
DUB (2018) (for crew base. Pilot base opened in 2017).
My Instagram account: @Jfkmxpairlinespotting
 
B747forever
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:47 pm

a340crew wrote:
Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) for the 787 flights. Crew bases are FLL, JFK, LGW, BCN, FCO and BKK.

Norwegian Air International (D8) operates the 737 Max flights from Europe to the east coast. Bases in PVD, SWF, EDI and DUB.
.


According to planespotters.net there are no 787s on the DY AOC.

The 787s are either flown by

DU/NLH - Norwegian Long Haul
DI/NRS - Norwegian Air UK

DY/NAX (Norwegian Air Shuttle) only have 737s on their AOC and operate in Europe.
D8/IBK (Norwegian Air International) only have 737s (NG/MAX) on their AOC and operate in Europe/TATL.

Confusing!
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
itismarkc
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:18 pm

Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:04 pm

Such complex arrangements all engineered to save a buck or 2.
It absolutely does my head in how these companies are bypassing established labour rules and work practises with absolute zeal in their race to the bottom.
In the company I work for, we have literally 8 different work contracts for flight attendants in both long and short haul divisions.
Seriously, this is supposed to be a cost saving measure but you can not tell me that this set up is efficient. Its clearly a method of dividing the work force and ensuring that there is a permanent wedge in play.

I really despair at whats happening to the industry. We have people in management earning excessive bonuses while those at the coal face are working harder and faster than ever before with less and less.
Something has got to give and one day, it will. The sad thing is, that in aviation, when things do eventually give, it aint pretty ;(
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4130
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:32 pm

The Gatwick based B787s are flown under DY/NAX "NorShuttle" to the US and DI/NRS "RedNose" to EZE and SIN. Most are G-, around two are currently LN-
The Scandi 787 fleet use DY/NAX at least to the US.
I don't know either (!)
 
MO11
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:53 pm

B747forever wrote:

According to planespotters.net there are no 787s on the DY AOC.

The 787s are either flown by

DU/NLH - Norwegian Long Haul
DI/NRS - Norwegian Air UK

DY/NAX (Norwegian Air Shuttle) only have 737s on their AOC and operate in Europe.
D8/IBK (Norwegian Air International) only have 737s (NG/MAX) on their AOC and operate in Europe/TATL.

Confusing!


Norwegian Long Haul was folded into NAX in 2014. Norwegian Air International operated one 787 on one route (AFAIK BKK) for about a year.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 421
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:39 pm

US staff are cheap to hire and fire and don’t get the employment rights that Europeans get .... i Hope the EU brings in a law that any employee ( whatever nationality ) on an EU flagged carrier gets the employment rights of that flag .,
 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 2630
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:18 pm

Galwayman wrote:
US staff are cheap to hire and fire and don’t get the employment rights that Europeans get .... i Hope the EU brings in a law that any employee ( whatever nationality ) on an EU flagged carrier gets the employment rights of that flag .,


Even then, they'd set up Norwegian Bulgaria or whatever. Since Bulgaria is in the EU they can operate anywhere in and out of the EU, but the wages and employment rights in Bulgaria are miserable. That's the case for a number of other EU-countries as well, so they get to choose.

As an alternative the EU has decided that airlines are to apply the wages and employment terms of the country where the crew is based. The idea is that the wages comply with the cost of living in that country. A Bulgarian wage is very low, but in Bulgaria it's enough to live from. In Denmark it's not, so someone based in Copenhagen under a Bulgarian contract would have a problem.

This same law allows them to hire Americans for their crew bases there on American contracts. Same is true for Thai crew that fall under Thai contracts. Compared to European crews they're dirt cheap, but considering life in Thailand is dirt cheap it doesn't make much difference. For them it's enough to live of just like someone in Denmark can live of a Danish wage that's much higher but buys you more or less the same. It's even true that Norwegian pays their Thai crews better than Thai Airways.
 
Pe@rson
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:38 pm

The usual union managers will be in very shortly to give their usual anti-Norwegian diatribe. ;-)
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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Crosswind
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:05 pm

The Gatwick based B787s are flown under DY/NAX "NorShuttle" to the US and DI/NRS "RedNose" to EZE and SIN. Most are G-, around two are currently LN-
The Scandi 787 fleet use DY/NAX at least to the US.


There is some order coming, all the remaining LGW long-haul routes move to Norwegian Air UK AOC with the changeover to the summer timetable, 24 March 2018.

This includes; Austin, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Ft. Lauderdale, Los Angeles, New York JFK, Oakland, Orlando, Seattle.
At least I think that's all of them...

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
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zkojq
Posts: 3281
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:16 pm

Can anyone explain to me how "Norwegian Air Norway" (DH/NAN/NORSHIP) fits into all of this? They only seem to have one aircraft registered to them (LN-NIJ).
Most recent aircraft flown: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, 717 VH-YQW, 737-600 LN-RPA, 737-700 OY-JTY, 737-800 LN-NGA, 767-300 ZK-NCI, 777-300 ZK-OKN, 787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
A380MSN004
Topic Author
Posts: 372
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Galwayman wrote:
US staff are cheap to hire and fire and don’t get the employment rights that Europeans get .... i Hope the EU brings in a law that any employee ( whatever nationality ) on an EU flagged carrier gets the employment rights of that flag .,


Interesting. Can you drop some numbers in order To compare EU based crew (lets say UK or France) and US based crew?
 
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mooseofspruce
Posts: 81
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Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:45 am

I find it interesting that (for a time), which callsign/AOC is used at least for the 787s seemed to be first determined by the route, not the country the aircraft is registered in. A G-registered aircraft could fly to a destination that is neither SIN or EZE but use the DY/Nor Shuttle AOC but from what I've seen, LN-registered aircraft don't do the opposite and operate to SIN or EZE.

Initially the 787s were registered in Ireland and were later moved to the Norwegian country registry (you'll still find merchandise of Norwegian 787s registered as EI-LNA/LNB/LNI as opposed to the LN-regs they are now) but now they've been taking deliveries as G-regs, with the exception of one (LN-LNL, the Kirsten Flagstad tail from 2016). Even then, whether they are EI or G-registered they slowly become LN-registered (normally I'd say this happens ~1 year after delivery, but the 788s all seemed to be done in a batch while LNA was one of the last to be reregistered despite being the oldest, and G-CJGI was skipped and continued to operate under the NAUK AOC on LGW-SIN-LGW while the next, G-CJUI, was registered to LN-LNN in December, 6 months after delivery).

In addition a 789 whether it's an LN-reg or G-reg can be found going to one of the other bases (OSL, ARN, CPH, CDG or BCN) operating under DY codes.

Interesting as in I have no idea how or even why this all actually works as much as I can see that it is working. These are just my observations since other than here I've effectively found nothing elsewhere online.
I saw a flock of Moosen! Many much moosen! Out in the woods, in the wood-es, in the woodsen!
 
a350lover
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:06 pm

Are still the BKK crews flying to the States? Norwegian is rostering some of the weirdest trips I have ever seen for a commercial airline.
 
dcajet
Posts: 2756
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:10 pm

Crosswind wrote:
The Gatwick based B787s are flown under DY/NAX "NorShuttle" to the US and DI/NRS "RedNose" to EZE and SIN. Most are G-, around two are currently LN-
The Scandi 787 fleet use DY/NAX at least to the US.


There is some order coming, all the remaining LGW long-haul routes move to Norwegian Air UK AOC with the changeover to the summer timetable, 24 March 2018.

This includes; Austin, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Ft. Lauderdale, Los Angeles, New York JFK, Oakland, Orlando, Seattle.
At least I think that's all of them...

Regards
CROSSWIND


And Buenos Aires and Singapore.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
dcajet
Posts: 2756
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Norwegian AOC / Transatlantic flights / Crews bases

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:14 pm

mooseofspruce wrote:
I find it interesting that (for a time), which callsign/AOC is used at least for the 787s seemed to be first determined by the route, not the country the aircraft is registered in. A G-registered aircraft could fly to a destination that is neither SIN or EZE but use the DY/Nor Shuttle AOC but from what I've seen, LN-registered aircraft don't do the opposite and operate to SIN or EZE.


Correct - only G- registered 787s fly to EZE and SIN. I'm certain that in the case of EZE it has to do with the Argentina-UK bilateral.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"

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