LPSHobby
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Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:05 am

Southwest for a long time follows a single type strategy using the 797, will they change this ordering the 797? What do you think about?
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:58 am

What is 797?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:12 am

Probably not, Ryanair doesn't seem to be interested - for what it's worth - and they are quite similar in operating a/c.
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moa999
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:45 am

How about we wait till it's actually specced.

But theoretically a twin-aisle aircraft that is super efficient on short haul and can achieve quick turnarounds (query if it can at non-aerobridge ports) should be attractive to LCCs
But all depends on how much Boeing compromises to meet other objectives
 
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FLIHGH
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:46 am

Widebodies are in the 30 year plan for Southwest, but who knows what that means. Their expansion plans will need something a bit bigger, but its way too early to tell.
 
tphuang
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:27 pm

Gary Kelly already said wn will not operate anything other than 737 as long as he is in charge. What could be more clear than that?
 
SWADawg
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
Gary Kelly already said wn will not operate anything other than 737 as long as he is in charge. What could be more clear than that?

While he did say that, he also said that WN was actively evaluating and talking to Boeing about the potential MoM Aircraft. When or if WN would operate such an Aircraft???? Stay tuned.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
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william
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:53 pm

Since the 797 will have alot in common with the eventual 737 replacement, it does not suprise me SWA is involved in its design.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:52 pm

It would require major changes to most of their gates that they use. All of their most recent projects have been aimed at getting them 738 capable.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:20 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
It would require major changes to most of their gates that they use. All of their most recent projects have been aimed at getting them 738 capable.


Speaking of Gates - imagined being in E Group for boarding the mythical WN 797 :rotfl:

Seriously, what's next? WN getting A380 and start flying TATL, putting 800 seats in them, and have somebody having a Z60 boarding position? :white:
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:25 pm

WN and Ryan's input is essential. Even for only a 'what if' we needed a 200-300 passenger model. And a key to a successful 797 is how short a range can it go and be competitive with the largest 737/320 models.
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Route66
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:47 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
It would require major changes to most of their gates that they use. All of their most recent projects have been aimed at getting them 738 capable.


Speaking of Gates - imagined being in E Group for boarding the mythical WN 797 :rotfl:


Do two aisles mean nothing while boarding?
 
737max8
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:51 pm

tphuang wrote:
Gary Kelly already said wn will not operate anything other than 737 as long as he is in charge. What could be more clear than that?


The 797 probably won't be available until after he retires.
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KarlB737
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:53 pm

LPSHobby wrote:
Southwest for a long time follows a single type strategy using the 797, will they change this ordering the 797?


I haven't read or heard or seen any specifics of what the B797 will become as a passenger aircraft. Maybe others here have but until then any decision by anyone regarding purchase is probably up in the air. Pun intended.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:25 pm

barney captain wrote:
Speculating on whether an airline may or may not order an aircraft that may or may not be built and for one that has no solid configuration or performance information, seems like a waste of time.


Well At least it allowed a couple of posters to get their daily anti-737 drivel out of their system.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
barney captain
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:27 pm

Speculating on whether an airline may or may not order an aircraft that may or may not be built and for one that has no solid configuration or performance information, seems like a waste of time.
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par13del
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:40 pm

To the MODS, is there any way that we can take this type of thread seriously?
 
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:59 pm

par13del wrote:
To the MODS, is there any way that we can take this type of thread seriously?

If you want mods to review something, use the triangle at the top of the post and explain the issue, or send email to [email protected] ...

Just complaining in a random post in a random thread is not the way to do it.
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nine4nine
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:35 pm

Question is will Boeing ever build it in our lifetime.
737 production line has 20 years on the A320 line (let’s not forget the 737 and 727 share the 707 body based off of the Dash 80 designed in 1952...a 66 year old design!) but I bet Airbus will drop a new replacement model before Boeing does.
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:47 pm

william wrote:
Since the 797 will have alot in common with the eventual 737 replacement, it does not suprise me SWA is involved in its design.


I would have thought that the proposed 797 would be more in line with the 757 as opposed to the 737. That said, I'm not holding my breath waiting for a hypothetical 797 in WN colors, but never say never. Did anyone ever think that WN would go with the 175-seat 738 instead of sticking to the smaller 143-seat 733/735/73G?
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mjoelnir
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:47 pm

Southwest declared a few days or weeks ago, that they will order heaps of 737-7. I have difficulties to imagine Southwest ordering 737-9 or even -10. Southwest ordering 797 in the near future happens in a different reality.
 
flyguy84
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:53 pm

No. They don’t need the airplane. And no, they don’t have these “secret” international expansion plans to Europe. Hell, they don’t even fly to Hawaii, Alaska, or Canada.
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elbandgeek
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:38 pm

Short answer: Maybe

Long answer: From what I've read on the NMA/797 threads, WN is talking with Boeing and giving their input on the design the same as any other major carrier. If Boeing delivers what WN wants then WN will probably buy it. If they decide that what WN wants will make it unattractive to anyone else, they probably won't buy it.
 
airzona11
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:05 pm

WN will have the successor to the 737 in whatever iteration that might be. The 7310 I think will be the next frame WN orders.

nine4nine wrote:
Question is will Boeing ever build it in our lifetime.
737 production line has 20 years on the A320 line (let’s not forget the 737 and 727 share the 707 body based off of the Dash 80 designed in 1952...a 66 year old design!) but I bet Airbus will drop a new replacement model before Boeing does.


Based on what?

The airlines have 2 options, A or B. They are making profits operating the current technology. A and B are going to be milking their frames for as long as they can. There is not much inherent innovation in a tube with wings. Engines tech advances and slight changes are being made, but breakthrough technology isn't coming event with the 797. Same goes for Airbus.
 
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:24 pm

airzona11 wrote:
WN will have the successor to the 737 in whatever iteration that might be. The 7310 I think will be the next frame WN orders.

nine4nine wrote:
Question is will Boeing ever build it in our lifetime.
737 production line has 20 years on the A320 line (let’s not forget the 737 and 727 share the 707 body based off of the Dash 80 designed in 1952...a 66 year old design!) but I bet Airbus will drop a new replacement model before Boeing does.


Based on what?

The airlines have 2 options, A or B. They are making profits operating the current technology. A and B are going to be milking their frames for as long as they can. There is not much inherent innovation in a tube with wings. Engines tech advances and slight changes are being made, but breakthrough technology isn't coming event with the 797. Same goes for Airbus.



There isn’t? There isn’t new ovular tube technology that is found to be more aerodynamic, or new composite materials for wings fuselage and tail, new wing design concepts, and yes new engine tech? There are scores of ways a new aircraft can be developed using cutting edge tech. How about a wider taller fuselage so Airlines can use bins instead of handloading. Milking the 737 for all it’s worth is useless unless an airline can use it. You can’t get a max9 or max10 out of places like SNA, BUR (decent sized WN stations) and quite a bunch of other shorter field or hot/high places cause the pig sits too low to the ground.
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:00 am

nine4nine wrote:
Question is will Boeing ever build it in our lifetime.
737 production line has 20 years on the A320 line (let’s not forget the 737 and 727 share the 707 body based off of the Dash 80 designed in 1952...a 66 year old design!) but I bet Airbus will drop a new replacement model before Boeing does.


...and by the time the final Max or Next Max or whatever it's called makes its final flight, it easily could be a 100 year old design.
 
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:01 am

nine4nine wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
WN will have the successor to the 737 in whatever iteration that might be. The 7310 I think will be the next frame WN orders.

nine4nine wrote:
Question is will Boeing ever build it in our lifetime.
737 production line has 20 years on the A320 line (let’s not forget the 737 and 727 share the 707 body based off of the Dash 80 designed in 1952...a 66 year old design!) but I bet Airbus will drop a new replacement model before Boeing does.


Based on what?

The airlines have 2 options, A or B. They are making profits operating the current technology. A and B are going to be milking their frames for as long as they can. There is not much inherent innovation in a tube with wings. Engines tech advances and slight changes are being made, but breakthrough technology isn't coming event with the 797. Same goes for Airbus.



There isn’t? There isn’t new ovular tube technology that is found to be more aerodynamic, or new composite materials for wings fuselage and tail, new wing design concepts, and yes new engine tech? There are scores of ways a new aircraft can be developed using cutting edge tech. How about a wider taller fuselage so Airlines can use bins instead of handloading. Milking the 737 for all it’s worth is useless unless an airline can use it. You can’t get a max9 or max10 out of places like SNA, BUR (decent sized WN stations) and quite a bunch of other shorter field or hot/high places cause the pig sits too low to the ground.


BUR/SNA make up a small fraction of the WN operation and most if not all routes are the quick short hops with high frequency where the 737-7 size is ideal. WN would not use the larger planes on those routes. I don't know what you are arguing. The 737 is continuing to printing billions of dollars of airlines and Boeing. More to the point, I was just questioning your assertion that Airbus will come out with a new model before Boeing does. Airbus and Boeing have and will take their platforms for as long as they can.
 
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:06 am

nine4nine wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
WN will have the successor to the 737 in whatever iteration that might be. The 7310 I think will be the next frame WN orders.

nine4nine wrote:
Question is will Boeing ever build it in our lifetime.
737 production line has 20 years on the A320 line (let’s not forget the 737 and 727 share the 707 body based off of the Dash 80 designed in 1952...a 66 year old design!) but I bet Airbus will drop a new replacement model before Boeing does.


Based on what?

The airlines have 2 options, A or B. They are making profits operating the current technology. A and B are going to be milking their frames for as long as they can. There is not much inherent innovation in a tube with wings. Engines tech advances and slight changes are being made, but breakthrough technology isn't coming event with the 797. Same goes for Airbus.



There isn’t? There isn’t new ovular tube technology that is found to be more aerodynamic, or new composite materials for wings fuselage and tail, new wing design concepts, and yes new engine tech? There are scores of ways a new aircraft can be developed using cutting edge tech. How about a wider taller fuselage so Airlines can use bins instead of handloading. Milking the 737 for all it’s worth is useless unless an airline can use it. You can’t get a max9 or max10 out of places like SNA, BUR (decent sized WN stations) and quite a bunch of other shorter field or hot/high places cause the pig sits too low to the ground.


How is the 737 a pig? And what's wrong with making as much money as possible from the airframe before switching to a new design?
 
Avi8r747
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:12 am

When Boeing closes the 737 line, is when Southwest will introduce a new type. And it will be what ever directly replaces the 737
 
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Channex757
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:33 am

WN has a business model; operate two size variants of the 737 (the 737-700 and 737-MAX, plus the 737-800 and 737-8MAX) and that's it. They are not some kind of Kingfisher operation; they have a plan and stick to it.

Ryanair is the same with the 737-800 and equivalent MAX200. Both are profitable and have no need to deviate from their plan. It keeps costs down across the board to stick to the type. There just isn't any justification to deviate from those policies when money is being made.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:42 am

Planeyguy wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
WN will have the successor to the 737 in whatever iteration that might be. The 7310 I think will be the next frame WN orders.



Based on what?

The airlines have 2 options, A or B. They are making profits operating the current technology. A and B are going to be milking their frames for as long as they can. There is not much inherent innovation in a tube with wings. Engines tech advances and slight changes are being made, but breakthrough technology isn't coming event with the 797. Same goes for Airbus.



There isn’t? There isn’t new ovular tube technology that is found to be more aerodynamic, or new composite materials for wings fuselage and tail, new wing design concepts, and yes new engine tech? There are scores of ways a new aircraft can be developed using cutting edge tech. How about a wider taller fuselage so Airlines can use bins instead of handloading. Milking the 737 for all it’s worth is useless unless an airline can use it. You can’t get a max9 or max10 out of places like SNA, BUR (decent sized WN stations) and quite a bunch of other shorter field or hot/high places cause the pig sits too low to the ground.


How is the 737 a pig? And what's wrong with making as much money as possible from the airframe before switching to a new design?



Have you ever seen a 900 take off? I’ve seen 900’s use almost the entire runway for take off roll at LAX on a regular basis and that’s sea level. The fuselage is too long for the short gear. So yes she’s a pig.
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caverunner17
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:43 am

Nobody knows because the plane doesn't exist. And when it does, WN's strategy could be completely different than today.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:16 am

tphuang wrote:
Gary Kelly already said wn will not operate anything other than 737 as long as he is in charge. What could be more clear than that?

...well the fact that he can be made "not in charge" rather quickly, for starters. :razz:

That's a minor obstacle to overcome, if the board decides they want the airline to go another direction.


nine4nine wrote:
Have you ever seen a 900 take off? I’ve seen 900’s use almost the entire runway for take off roll at LAX on a regular basis and that’s sea level.

While the 739ER typically uses more runway than other variants; if you believe that the above is representative of what the aircraft requires, then you've just told us that you don't know what a derated/assumed temp takeoff is.
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brian415
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:55 am

LPSHobby wrote:
Southwest for a long time follows a single type strategy using the 797, will they change this ordering the 797? What do you think about?

Southwest will be forced into a "two" type-rating solution for a decade or two. It is inevitable during the transition period.

The best question to ask is whether Southwest will have two type ratings on all-Boeing aircraft [(a) 737 + 797] or whether they will have VERY split fleets: (b) 737 + A320, (c) 737 + CSeries.

There are no other options. Why? It is unlikely that Boeing can obtain a common type between the 737 and the not yet specified 808 (NSA).
 
brian415
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:01 am

Planeyguy wrote:
How is the 737 a pig? And what's wrong with making as much money as possible from the airframe before switching to a new design?

The 737 MAX is a bridge to the past, not the future. (LOL, that sounds like what Bill Clinton said about Bob Dole!) The 737 airframe should have been retired by 1985 at the latest. In short, the 737s redeemable qualities were expired by the mid-1980s.
 
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 am

Channex757 wrote:
WN has a business model; operate two size variants of the 737 (the 737-700 and 737-MAX, plus the 737-800 and 737-8MAX) and that's it. They are not some kind of Kingfisher operation; they have a plan and stick to it.

Ryanair is the same with the 737-800 and equivalent MAX200. Both are profitable and have no need to deviate from their plan. It keeps costs down across the board to stick to the type. There just isn't any justification to deviate from those policies when money is being made.

Southwest would benefit by dumping their 737 NGs when about 66% to 80% of their NG fleet reaches end of life, and replacing these frames with 797s instead of 737 MAXs.

Around this time, the industry would reach a critical pilot shortage. WN would encourage pilot retention and new hires with to the possibility of flying a prestige fleet. Also, since WN is the only large carrier to NOT have declared bankruptcy, the only way to maintain profitability in the mid-2020s is to upgauge, and/or increase utilization. The 797 would achieve both these goals. In the absence of either of these options, WN may consider a Ch 11 re-org a decade from now.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:03 am

brian415 wrote:
Southwest would benefit by dumping their 737 NGs when about 66% to 80% of their NG fleet reaches end of life, and replacing these frames with 797s instead of 737 MAXs.

Around this time, the industry would reach a critical pilot shortage. WN would encourage pilot retention and new hires with to the possibility of flying a prestige fleet. Also, since WN is the only large carrier to NOT have declared bankruptcy, the only way to maintain profitability in the mid-2020s is to upgauge, and/or increase utilization. The 797 would achieve both these goals. In the absence of either of these options, WN may consider a Ch 11 re-org a decade from now.


Considering that WN has turned a profit every year since 1973, you're implying that, somehow, WN is on the path to failure within 10 years. You weren't being serious about that statement, were you?
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:59 am

Planeyguy wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
WN will have the successor to the 737 in whatever iteration that might be. The 7310 I think will be the next frame WN orders.



Based on what?

The airlines have 2 options, A or B. They are making profits operating the current technology. A and B are going to be milking their frames for as long as they can. There is not much inherent innovation in a tube with wings. Engines tech advances and slight changes are being made, but breakthrough technology isn't coming event with the 797. Same goes for Airbus.



There isn’t? There isn’t new ovular tube technology that is found to be more aerodynamic, or new composite materials for wings fuselage and tail, new wing design concepts, and yes new engine tech? There are scores of ways a new aircraft can be developed using cutting edge tech. How about a wider taller fuselage so Airlines can use bins instead of handloading. Milking the 737 for all it’s worth is useless unless an airline can use it. You can’t get a max9 or max10 out of places like SNA, BUR (decent sized WN stations) and quite a bunch of other shorter field or hot/high places cause the pig sits too low to the ground.


How is the 737 a pig? And what's wrong with making as much money as possible from the airframe before switching to a new design?


A very dramatic response I must admit and a bit over the top!

The nickname for the original Boeing 737 100/200 series was the ''PIG'' for it's stubby appearance as in the B747 being fondly called the ''JUMBO'' for obvious reasons, neither are a slant to the aircraft it's more of a case when plane spotters then had nicknames for almost every aircraft.
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JustSomeDood
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:37 am

brian415 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
WN has a business model; operate two size variants of the 737 (the 737-700 and 737-MAX, plus the 737-800 and 737-8MAX) and that's it. They are not some kind of Kingfisher operation; they have a plan and stick to it.

Ryanair is the same with the 737-800 and equivalent MAX200. Both are profitable and have no need to deviate from their plan. It keeps costs down across the board to stick to the type. There just isn't any justification to deviate from those policies when money is being made.

Southwest would benefit by dumping their 737 NGs when about 66% to 80% of their NG fleet reaches end of life, and replacing these frames with 797s instead of 737 MAXs.

Around this time, the industry would reach a critical pilot shortage. WN would encourage pilot retention and new hires with to the possibility of flying a prestige fleet. .


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

brian415 wrote:
Planeyguy wrote:
How is the 737 a pig? And what's wrong with making as much money as possible from the airframe before switching to a new design?

The 737 MAX is a bridge to the past, not the future. (LOL, that sounds like what Bill Clinton said about Bob Dole!) The 737 airframe should have been retired by 1985 at the latest. In short, the 737s redeemable qualities were expired by the mid-1980s.


Last time I checked, being able to offer more cabin floor area at lighter airframe weights than the competition counts as a very "redeemable quality".
 
airzona11
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:42 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Planeyguy wrote:
nine4nine wrote:


There isn’t? There isn’t new ovular tube technology that is found to be more aerodynamic, or new composite materials for wings fuselage and tail, new wing design concepts, and yes new engine tech? There are scores of ways a new aircraft can be developed using cutting edge tech. How about a wider taller fuselage so Airlines can use bins instead of handloading. Milking the 737 for all it’s worth is useless unless an airline can use it. You can’t get a max9 or max10 out of places like SNA, BUR (decent sized WN stations) and quite a bunch of other shorter field or hot/high places cause the pig sits too low to the ground.


How is the 737 a pig? And what's wrong with making as much money as possible from the airframe before switching to a new design?



Have you ever seen a 900 take off? I’ve seen 900’s use almost the entire runway for take off roll at LAX on a regular basis and that’s sea level. The fuselage is too long for the short gear. So yes she’s a pig.


But the airlines operating 739 say it is very efficient... so I guess "pig" is relative.
 
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:58 pm

brian415 wrote:
Planeyguy wrote:
How is the 737 a pig? And what's wrong with making as much money as possible from the airframe before switching to a new design?

The 737 MAX is a bridge to the past, not the future. (LOL, that sounds like what Bill Clinton said about Bob Dole!) The 737 airframe should have been retired by 1985 at the latest. In short, the 737s redeemable qualities were expired by the mid-1980s.

Then explain the fact that the 10,000th 737 just rolled out of the factory and thousands more behind it are already on order.

Cunard wrote:
The nickname for the original Boeing 737 100/200 series was the ''PIG'' for it's stubby appearance as in the B747 being fondly called the ''JUMBO'' for obvious reasons, neither are a slant to the aircraft it's more of a case when plane spotters then had nicknames for almost every aircraft.

LH at FRA had the famous "Bay of Pigs" ("Schweinebucht"), a remote parking area for 737s. (ref: viewtopic.php?t=606337#p9665417)
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:51 pm

There has been speculation on another thread that the 797(whatever) could hold upwards of 400 people. I don't think that would be the 797 that WN and Ryanair would have in mind.
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:18 pm

par13del wrote:
To the MODS, is there any way that we can take this type of thread seriously?



... or a post like this ^^^ ??
 
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jscottwomack
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Re: Will Southwest order the 797?

Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:18 pm

Avi8r747 wrote:
When Boeing closes the 737 line, is when Southwest will introduce a new type. And it will be what ever directly replaces the 737




Hands down the best response.
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