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LAXintl
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Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:32 am

Tokyo Narita International airport has been given the green light to extend its operating hours as well as to build a third runway.

The airport's operator Narita International Airport Corporation says agreement was reached with the Ministry of Land Infrastructure & Transport, as well as the Chiba Prefecture and local municipalities surrounding the airport.

Initially, airport operations will be extended to 0500-0030 from current 0600-2300. Airports current second runway will be extended 1,000 meters by 2020, and a 3rd new 3,500m runway is to be built as well by mid-2020s.

These measures will help raise the number of take-off and landing slots from 300,000 to 500,000 annually.


Tokyo Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nw-446792/

=

Good news for booming Japan aviation market which sees airlines struggle to gain enough slots at the Tokyo airports in particular.
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:40 am

For a stagnant nation, the growth in air travel demand has been amazing.

My airline (a cargo operator) for several years now has been unable to secure additional NRT slots at times that work for our sort times.
Our company newsletter made mention of NRT has gone from ~130,000 operations/30mil pax in 2000 to 250,000+ movements and 40m+ pax in 2017, and all this is while so many were clamoring to get into HND as well.
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HeeseokKoo
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:43 am

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/photo ... 04329.html

Hope the link that has runway diagram works. There are two surprises.

1. I thought the land owner finally agrees to sell the land for the runway extension. No. The runway extension will occur to the other direction (toward north-west). The chopped runway will stay there.
2. 3rd runway will be far southeast of the terminal, nearly align with the shorter, to be extended, runway. When I read the 3rd one will be built parallel, I thought it will be next to either of them, but that's not the case. Land is hard to get.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:46 am

Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.
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teriyaki
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:02 am

The distance to Tokyo is just killer at Narita. Par for the course for budget airlines though. I'd imagine we'd continue to see consolidation of Legacy Airlines at Haneda, and Low Cost Carriers at Narita.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:14 am

This is surprising news with the strict operational laws in Japan.

The extension of the existing runway indicates the farmers continue to stand their grounds and not giving in.

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brian415
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:39 am

Not sure it's a good thing that TYO has two airport operators. If the intent was to foster competition, it hasn't resulted in lower fees. HND should have not received a fourth runway so quickly. Instead NRT should have gotten a third runway with years of a head start before HND received a fourth. This would have put pressure on JR or other rail operators to install high speed rail or maglev to NRT.

But now that this is the situation, the only remedy is a Heathwick Airside Rail retrofit.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:12 am

Now I did not see this coming!
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:26 am

neomax wrote:
Now I did not see this coming!

Maybe it isn't a done deal. Between 15 and 20 farmers near NRT committed suicide due to eminent domain protests over the past 3 or 3.5 decades.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:50 am

brian415 wrote:
neomax wrote:
Now I did not see this coming!

Maybe it isn't a done deal. Between 15 and 20 farmers near NRT committed suicide due to eminent domain protests over the past 3 or 3.5 decades.


Yeah, that's why I was so surprised. NRT has a really strange taxiway layout that literally circumvents certain patches of land that they could not get permission for. There is literally a shrine so close to the threshold that I believe it is the closest you can get to a landing aircraft anywhere in the world for an airport as busy and as big as NRT. Google Toho shrine and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:33 am

Tokyo is one of the world's most visited cities trending upwards. Expanding its airports is so important. Happy they got it worked out.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/most ... index.html
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:30 am

Good news for NRT, it will be up and running before anything new at LHR. ;)
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eamondzhang
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:32 am

brian415 wrote:
Not sure it's a good thing that TYO has two airport operators. If the intent was to foster competition, it hasn't resulted in lower fees. HND should have not received a fourth runway so quickly. Instead NRT should have gotten a third runway with years of a head start before HND received a fourth. This would have put pressure on JR or other rail operators to install high speed rail or maglev to NRT.

But now that this is the situation, the only remedy is a Heathwick Airside Rail retrofit.

You certainly don't have much idea on TYO's amount of traffic.

HND is packed to the gills at most of the day - that is when domestic flights are in full swing. NRT, with the current capacity, is also filling up fast. It's not a competition between the two airports in any way; instead the two airports complement each other to provide enough capacity for local pax and tourists. Remember Tokyo is a city with 30 million residents already, and we haven't put in the tourist factors in. Even with HND's fourth runway, the airport can barely add flights during the daytime, and NRT's traffic growth has been unprecedented.

And, it's not like NRT does not have a high speed rail to the CBD area. It's called Keisei Skyliner to Ueno. If you don't like Narita Express, then use Keisei. Plenty of other cities don't have HSRs to the airport that are far away, thinking of Melbourne (which can take 1.25+hr for many parts of the city) and PVG (maglev only reaches a tiny part and for most you don't have HSRs at all).

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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:46 am

Great news as a regular flyer to Tokyo. As for trains, the Keisei Skyliner is great if you're in a hurry. NRT-Ueno in 41 minutes and Tokyo in 55 minutes with transfer to the Yamanote Line.

Sure, some airports have it better but its nowhere near the end of the world.

I just hope runway usage would be optimised with the terminals now. Taken many a flight from T2 where we taxied all the way to T1 to use the older runway with an A320. I've also taken a CX A330 many years back from T1, to taxi all the way past T2 to the short runway.

It adds a good 40 minutes to the journey time.
 
TC957
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:43 pm

The runway usage at NRT often puzzles me too. Far too much unnecessary taxing !
What also adds to journey times is, when using the 34's, the loop to the right all Asia-bound flights have to do after take-off and climb out back over NRT itself. Presumably that's for clearance over all the HND traffic.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:56 pm

hz747300 wrote:
Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.

The Keisei Skyliner is actually faster than Narita Express. It used part of the alignment that was intended for high speed Shinkansen line to the airport, after the plan being canceled due to resistance from land owners which is the same situation as the airport itself.

brian415 wrote:
Not sure it's a good thing that TYO has two airport operators. If the intent was to foster competition, it hasn't resulted in lower fees. HND should have not received a fourth runway so quickly. Instead NRT should have gotten a third runway with years of a head start before HND received a fourth. This would have put pressure on JR or other rail operators to install high speed rail or maglev to NRT.

But now that this is the situation, the only remedy is a Heathwick Airside Rail retrofit.

Tokyo can most probably utilize all the added capacities at both airports effectively. Even after all those extension works the total annual movement capacity at both airports are still just about a million. Not a lot compares to other megacities around the world
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:07 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Tokyo Narita International airport has been given the green light to extend its operating hours as well as to build a third runway.

The airport's operator Narita International Airport Corporation says agreement was reached with the Ministry of Land Infrastructure & Transport, as well as the Chiba Prefecture and local municipalities surrounding the airport.

Initially, airport operations will be extended to 0500-0030 from current 0600-2300.

According to Japanese report, initially the operation time will only be extended to 0600-2400 and that is only for runway A.

After completion of the 3rd runway, they will separate runway operation time into two groups, some runway will operate from 5am to 10pm, while other runways will operate between 7:30am to 00:30am so resident of approach/departure path under each runways will still have 7 hours curfew. Extra noise proof works will be provided to residents living between both runways.

For instance, an example being given is that, when in North wind, with runway C arrival and runway A departure being grouped into "early" group, and then runway B departure and runway A arrival being grouped into "late" group, then from 0500 to 0730, aircrafts will only use runway C to land and only use runway A to depart, while in 2200 to 2430, aircrafts will only land via runway A and depart from runway B. Report say the system is similar to FRA's system.

Currently, after 2200, only 10 flight are allowed to operate in the last hour. The limit is going to be removed.

Only silent planes like 787 or A380 are allowed i. extended time before 6am or after 11pm.
Airports current second runway will be extended 1,000 meters by 2020

I am not able to find out how what is the expected completion date for the second runway but earlier information say it would take 3-4 years so it would be unlikely for it to be completed by 2020.
Main measure to.increase capacity by 2020 would be extending the taxiway to the north of runway A by 560m to be a holding bay. Combined with other measures like extra apron and other taxiway layout changes, it would be able to increase capacity from 68/h to 72/h. Some of these will be completed by 2020 but to complete all of these changes it would be 2022.
, and a 3rd new 3,500m runway is to be built as well by mid-2020s.

They say it would take 10 years to build the new runway so it won't be available by mid 2020s

These measures will help raise the number of take-off and landing slots from 300,000 to 500,000 annually.


Tokyo Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nw-446792/

=

Good news for booming Japan aviation market which sees airlines struggle to gain enough slots at the Tokyo airports in particular.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:31 pm

hz747300 wrote:
Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.


To start, like many said, Skyliner is technically (much) faster if you don't mind having to change trains to reach CBDs of Tokyo (i.e. Area around Tokyo or Shinjuku Station). There are also planned to "straighten" that subway line (Toei Asakusa Line) that branch off the Keisei Line (and eventually go to HND/Yokohama) and build a deep underground station near Tokyo Stn. area (and in turn, also make it quicker to get between HND and NRT), but it has still been all talk and no concrete plans.

There are also talks about building a mini-maglev between NRT and HND also, but of course, the price tag is exorbitant (aka it probably won't ever get built) :white:

On the original topic - I'm surprised myself that they're actually able to expand NRT also. Too bad that Toho landowner still refused to gave up that little plot of land even after all these years (well, either that or maybe NRT authority think it's not worth it).
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:34 pm

Why didn't this happen 30 years ago? Instead of poor international to domestic connections, NRT would have been a viable choice for say my brother when he consulted for Sony in Southern Japan. Instead other Asia connections brought him and a hundred co-workers door to door faster. NRT would have been the Asia hub.

Split hubs always handicap the home airline. Yes, I'm aware it is worse in London, Paris, NYC, Seoul, and Mirabel being the poster child. Canada and Japan forfeited markets they once owned.

neomax wrote:
Now I did not see this coming!

Ditto! Wow, this is a smart move.

Can I hope for the exact same at LHR? 300k to 500k slots is impressive.

How many jobs were exported from Japan because of the delay?

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raylee67
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:38 pm

The early morning hours are not fully utilized now though, especially in Terminal 1. I fly to NRT on the CX 6am arrival many times, and we are almost always the only flight arriving at the Terminal. Don't get me wrong. I am not complaining. I usually get to breeze thru immigration and customs in 20 min, which is amazing for NRT. In contrast, I take the same 6am arrival at ICN and it was really busy and bustling with arriving flights. I am not sure what value it adds for NRT to extend morning hours to an even earlier time, when the current more favorable slots are not fully used.

Also, extending opening hours of NRT itself is not good enough too. The trains from the airport only starts running at 0730. My experience is that I need to wait at the train station for over 40 min to get on the first train. By opening the airport 1 hr early, the airport better coordinates with the train operators to get them to start the trains earlier.

And according to the map, taxiing from the terminal to the new third runway is probably going to take an hour...

Also on the map, there is a large piece of land above the 3rd runway marked as possible site for expansion. Possible new terminal there?

hz747300 wrote:
Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.

You may have taken the wrong train. The Skyliner is much faster.

Granted, the Skyliner goes to Ueno, not Tokyo Station. But Ueno is one of the largest train stations in Tokyo, along with Tokyo, Shinagawa and Shinjuku. So getting to Ueno is good enough.

http://www.keisei.co.jp/keisei/tetudou/ ... /index.php
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
TC957
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:38 pm

Allowing only " silent " planes after 11pm is very handy for when ANA start their A380 HNL flights.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:47 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.


To start, like many said, Skyliner is technically (much) faster if you don't mind having to change trains to reach CBDs of Tokyo (i.e. Area around Tokyo or Shinjuku Station). There are also planned to "straighten" that subway line (Toei Asakusa Line) that branch off the Keisei Line (and eventually go to HND/Yokohama) and build a deep underground station near Tokyo Stn. area (and in turn, also make it quicker to get between HND and NRT), but it has still been all talk and no concrete plans.

There are also talks about building a mini-maglev between NRT and HND also, but of course, the price tag is exorbitant (aka it probably won't ever get built) :white:

On the original topic - I'm surprised myself that they're actually able to expand NRT also. Too bad that Toho landowner still refused to gave up that little plot of land even after all these years (well, either that or maybe NRT authority think it's not worth it).

They have already scrapped the original 3rd runway plan because technological advancement have rendered such runway that is designed for crosswind landing/takeoff unnecessary. They said the diversion rate from Narita airport due to crosswind is only 0.03% in the past decade. Parallel runway would offer more capacity gains.

As for those who protests against the airport, it seems like a few months ago there were still a bomb threat targeted against the airport
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airbazar
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:54 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/photo/AS20180314004329.html

Hope the link that has runway diagram works. There are two surprises.

1. I thought the land owner finally agrees to sell the land for the runway extension. No. The runway extension will occur to the other direction (toward north-west). The chopped runway will stay there.

This is the classic definition of, you can adapt to the changes or watch the world pass you by. These guys had a unique opportunity to sell their land at a price that would leave a lasting financial improvement for their families and instead chose to fight it. With 3 full size runways, their land has just lost all its value.
 
Nami
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:08 pm

I assume the longer operating hours will make night time departures to Europe more viable as under the current curfew they would arrive in the middle of the night?
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:02 pm

Nami wrote:
I assume the longer operating hours will make night time departures to Europe more viable as under the current curfew they would arrive in the middle of the night?

Currently, the only night flight out of NRT to Europe is TK's flight to IST. As it is now, flights departing to Europe by the present curfew would arrive in the dead of night, so yes, the longer operating hours would allow flights to depart that much later at NRT to arrive around 5 - 6 am in Europe.
All other late-night services to Europe depart from HND.
 
77H
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:06 pm

Having looked at the new runway diagram I'm a bit confused as to how they plan to use it given its position relative to existing Runway B? When arriving from the North will Runway C be strictly departures and strictly for arrivals during South flow? Will they use an offset approach similar to ORD's new South Runway to facilitate simultaneous "parallel" approaches?

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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:08 pm

Love Narita quick immigration and movement in the terminal. Totally hate the 30 minutes of taxing around to get to the gate and the slow "Express" to the Yamanote line. Nest time I go to Japan I am planing on getting to HND to see if its worth the extra $$$ fare.

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MatthewDB
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:57 am

hz747300 wrote:
Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.


What's the ride like? So far I've used NRT only as a stop-over for other Asian destinations, and HND to get to Tokyo.

My employer has some weird contracts. We mostly have Sky Team contracts. I fly out of PDX, so I can take a direct to NRT and then stay on DL or another carrier for elsewhere in Asia. But then we also have a deal with ANA that beats DL so I've traveled with them for destinations in Japan.
 
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:19 am

MatthewDB wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.


What's the ride like? So far I've used NRT only as a stop-over for other Asian destinations, and HND to get to Tokyo.


JR's Narita Express takes exactly 1 hour from Narita Terminal 1 to Tokyo Station. N'Ex's premise is a comfortable ride with reduced need for changing. If you get a special round-trip ticket for foreigners only, connecting JR services within the Greater Tokyo area, Saitama and Yokohama are also free of charge should you need to change, and venture well beyond the CBD. Just note that if there are delays on the line, N'Ex train schedules tend to get shafted in order to get local commuter trains back on track. Top speed 130km/h through a relatively short, straight section. Cost is 3,020yen to Tokyo and 4,000yen round trip with the special ticket.

The quicker and cheaper option is Keisei's Skyliner. Narita to Nippori (Yamanote Loop Line) in 40 minutes, and Ueno in 45 minutes. Taking Keisei Skyliner is cheaper one way at 2,200yen if bought online, but 4,300yen return. To get to other places in Tokyo other than Ueno, you must change trains. Top speed 160km/h through a long, straight section.

I'm frugal and take the commuter Keisei Express train costing 1,030 yen, taking 80 minutes to Ueno.
The commuter JR Express train to Tokyo costs 1,320 yen and takes 93 minutes.
 
Yossarian22
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:42 am

Pacific wrote:
Great news as a regular flyer to Tokyo. As for trains, the Keisei Skyliner is great if you're in a hurry. NRT-Ueno in 41 minutes and Tokyo in 55 minutes with transfer to the Yamanote Line.

Sure, some airports have it better but its nowhere near the end of the world.

I just hope runway usage would be optimised with the terminals now. Taken many a flight from T2 where we taxied all the way to T1 to use the older runway with an A320. I've also taken a CX A330 many years back from T1, to taxi all the way past T2 to the short runway.

It adds a good 40 minutes to the journey time.


Xi’an, which gets a reasonable amount of tourist traffic, the airport is either a 40ish USD taxi ride, that takes over an hour in good traffic, or more than 4 hours on various busses.

Last summer, my soon to be wife and I landed at DMK at around 16:00, got through customs around 17:00, called an Uber, got in the Uber around 17:30 and got to our downtown AirBnB around 19:00.

TPE just finally got a raillink about a year ago. In October of 2016, I landed in TPE around 4, and it took about two hours on the airport shuttle bus to get to my hotel in downtown.

DEN is probably the worst I’ve experience. It has irregular bus service and a taxi to the city can cost $70 USD, more in peak hours with rush hour traffic. Over the last 2 decades Denver has built a comprehensive light rail system, they really need to connect that to their giant domestic hub, which is a major hub for 3 airlines.
 
sincx
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:07 am

Yossarian22 wrote:
Pacific wrote:
DEN is probably the worst I’ve experience. It has irregular bus service and a taxi to the city can cost $70 USD, more in peak hours with rush hour traffic. Over the last 2 decades Denver has built a comprehensive light rail system, they really need to connect that to their giant domestic hub, which is a major hub for 3 airlines.

The RTA's A line from Denver Union Station to DEN airport opened in April 2016. Your complaint is about 2 years out of date.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:27 am

airbazar wrote:
This is the classic definition of, you can adapt to the changes or watch the world pass you by. These guys had a unique opportunity to sell their land at a price that would leave a lasting financial improvement for their families and instead chose to fight it. With 3 full size runways, their land has just lost all its value.


I'm not sure how that follows. Their land is exactly the same as it always was. If they were happy with it yesterday, they're happy with it today.

Pacific wrote:
The quicker and cheaper option is Keisei's Skyliner. Narita to Nippori (Yamanote Loop Line) in 40 minutes, and Ueno in 45 minutes.


It depends on where you're going whether or not it's actually quicker. It definitely *can* be, if you happen to be going to Ueno. But if going to Shinjuku or Tokyo station, it almost definitely isn't, and it's less convenient because you need to change trains.

I've taken both. Depending on where I'm staying, one or the other can be a better option. They serve different purposes. There is a reason the N'EX is absolutely packed at certain hours of the day, despite being more expensive.

And yeah, it takes too long either way, but it's not completely out of bounds with the public transport options at a lot of other major airports. It doesn't take much less time, if any, to get to EWR or JFK from most parts of Manhattan, for example. (Unless you happen to live above Penn Station or the Port Authority bus terminal.)
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Yossarian22
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:51 am

sincx wrote:
Yossarian22 wrote:
Pacific wrote:
DEN is probably the worst I’ve experience. It has irregular bus service and a taxi to the city can cost $70 USD, more in peak hours with rush hour traffic. Over the last 2 decades Denver has built a comprehensive light rail system, they really need to connect that to their giant domestic hub, which is a major hub for 3 airlines.

The RTA's A line from Denver Union Station to DEN airport opened in April 2016. Your complaint is about 2 years out of date.


That is good to know! I was last there in 2014. I just sorta assumed America, so no train.
 
hz747300
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:56 am

MatthewDB wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
Any word if they will make the train to Tokyo faster? Right now, the only "express" bit of Narita Express is that it is non-stop.


What's the ride like? So far I've used NRT only as a stop-over for other Asian destinations, and HND to get to Tokyo.

My employer has some weird contracts. We mostly have Sky Team contracts. I fly out of PDX, so I can take a direct to NRT and then stay on DL or another carrier for elsewhere in Asia. But then we also have a deal with ANA that beats DL so I've traveled with them for destinations in Japan.


Most of time, it's as advertised, around 55 minutes, nonstop from Tokyo Station; however, there are times when it slows way down. One time I took it, and the map at the front of the train was just plain lying to us. The train was slow most of the way, and made stops periodically (probably due to signalling--only explained in Japanese), but the map still showed our arrival and progress as if the train was on time. On the nice side, there is a well equipped cart that makes its way through the train during the journey. The seats are preassigned too, if you have a window seat, there are nice views of the change from Urban to Rural with lovely villages on the way to Narita.

Please for anyone reading this--board the train from Tokyo Station that is three hours prior to your flight at the latest. Have your passport ready as you exit the train as there is a passport check between the train and entering the terminal.
Keep on truckin'...
 
YIMBY
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:22 am

Nami wrote:
I assume the longer operating hours will make night time departures to Europe more viable as under the current curfew they would arrive in the middle of the night?


Departures before 23:00 will arrive before 3 o'clock at HEL and a bit later at AMS and extended departure window may push arrivals to around 5 o'clock. It will be possible to arrive after 6 o'clock to some more distant airports in Western Continental Europe, at least by flying slower.

Which airports allow landings before 5 o'clock? Locals may confirm, but I understand that 350-941 will be permitted to land at and depart from HEL all night long, while most other European airports have a full curfew.

A night bank at HEL may not be so foolish as it sounds as it may allow to optimize the use of their narrow-bodies that otherwise sleep at distant airports.
 
JA786A
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:32 am

hz747300 wrote:
Please for anyone reading this--board the train from Tokyo Station that is three hours prior to your flight at the latest. Have your passport ready as you exit the train as there is a passport check between the train and entering the terminal.

There is no passport check anymore (since 2015)!
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:38 am

Yossarian22 wrote:

Last summer, my soon to be wife and I landed at DMK at around 16:00, got through customs around 17:00, called an Uber, got in the Uber around 17:30 and got to our downtown AirBnB around 19:00.


Completely off topic but when is the BTS opening to DMK? Should be soon. Work was well under way when I was there a couple years ago.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:10 am

LupineChemist wrote:
Completely off topic but when is the BTS opening to DMK? Should be soon. Work was well under way when I was there a couple years ago.


Didn't seem so when I was there about a month ago, seemed almost finished though
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:20 pm

JA786A wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
Please for anyone reading this--board the train from Tokyo Station that is three hours prior to your flight at the latest. Have your passport ready as you exit the train as there is a passport check between the train and entering the terminal.

There is no passport check anymore (since 2015)!


IDK when on 2015 that stopped, but as of November 21st when I last entered NRT via the Kesei they sure in hell did check mine and everyone else who exited the platform.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:50 am

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r2rho
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 pm

This is great news for an airport that has been forced to operate with a hand tied to its back since its inception. Having said that...

1. I thought the land owner finally agrees to sell the land for the runway extension. No. The runway extension will occur to the other direction (toward north-west). The chopped runway will stay there.

I cannot believe it. Of course this solution is better than nothing, but taxi times will be horrible. The chopped off runway will continue remain a distinct "feature" of NRT.... incredible.

2. 3rd runway will be far southeast of the terminal, nearly align with the shorter, to be extended, runway. When I read the 3rd one will be built parallel, I thought it will be next to either of them, but that's not the case. Land is hard to get.

An odd aligment, likely dictated by land availability. Runways B & C will interfere with each other in certain conditions. It looks like the intended use is takeoffs on one and landings on the other. I guess you could do dual parallel staggered approaches without Problem too.

I'm surprised that with the three (or two and a half effective) runways they can only achieve 98 movements/hr. Airports like MUC or LHR can manage 90/hr, this is only marginally more. I assume it is due to the Long taxi times...

Whatever happened to the never completed crosswind runway? While it may not be so needed for crosswind purposes, it could provide some small additional capacity at low cost, low risk. And decent taxi times! Given the constraints at NRT, it is better than nothing.
Last edited by r2rho on Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
r2rho
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 pm

As for transportation, the Skyliner alignment looks like it could take higher top speeds (probably 200km/h in some sections) with some upgrading, which would shave off some more time. What is the limiting factor here? Signalling? Level crossings?
 
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athena
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:21 pm

r2rho wrote:
As for transportation, the Skyliner alignment looks like it could take higher top speeds (probably 200km/h in some sections) with some upgrading, which would shave off some more time. What is the limiting factor here? Signalling? Level crossings?


The initial part of the Sky Access Line could probably handle it, but it’s probably the local sections of the old Hokusō line that weren’t built to handle anything faster than what the Skyliner is doing now. Not to mention that their trains have to be timed to allow for clearances of slower traffic along the route.
 
AirlineBrat
Posts: 507
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:23 am

Pacific wrote:
As for trains, the Keisei Skyliner is great if you're in a hurry. NRT-Ueno in 41 minutes and Tokyo in 55 minutes with transfer to the Yamanote Line.


I just returned from Tokyo yesterday. I rode the NEX several times in between LAX-NRT, NRT-DPS, DPS-NRT and NRT-LAX legs of my trip. I stayed with friends real close to the Yokohama station off and on. Trains extend to Yokohama and beyond every half hour or so and it took exactly 1 hour and 29 minutes between Yokohama and NRT T-2/3. I had great experiences with NEX. There is adequate space for luggage and with a seat reservation, you a guaranteed a seat. I would be hesitant in connecting through Ueno if you have any luggage larger than a purse or small backpack. Throughout much of the day, trains and stations throughout the Tokyo metro area are completely packed or close to it. Especially between 7am and 11am and 4pm and 8pm. Ueno station was a complete zoo during last weeks cherry blossom period :-)

In regards to the runways at NRT, the runway and taxiway layout was definitely interesting from a passenger perspective. Both landings were on 16L and takeoffs were on 16R/34L. They are doing taxiway reconstruction near the bend by Terminal 2.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
Pacific
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:36 am

N'EX definitely has the Network advantage and it's a good choice if you're very unfamiliar with Japan or really value the comfort of the seat.

I'd take the Yokosuka Line local towards Yokohama from the airport as I'm more financially sensitive! I'm estimating 2 hours and 10 minutes trip time.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:33 pm

Pacific wrote:
N'EX definitely has the Network advantage and it's a good choice if you're very unfamiliar with Japan or really value the comfort of the seat.

I'd take the Yokosuka Line local towards Yokohama from the airport as I'm more financially sensitive! I'm estimating 2 hours and 10 minutes trip time.

The quickest and cheapest non N'EX route from Narita to Yokohama is using the Access - Tokkyu train to Haneda and transfer to the Keikyu Main Line in Shinagawa. It's just 13 minutes slower then the N'EX and 20 minutes faster then using the Yokosuka Line, but with a change of trains of course. The only time you have to worry about not getting a seat is during the evening rush hour, and then only between Shinagawa and Yokohama.

If you are arriving at Narita you simply have to check beforehand on http://www.hyperdia.com what's the quickest or cheapest option to you final destination in the city. Taking the bus is often also a good option, especially if the bus stops are your hotel, then you don't have to worry finding your way from the station to the hotel in the busy streets.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:48 pm

So I see an area to be acquired north of the new runway and a dotted line that I'm guessing is a new road? I don't read Japanese...will that parcel of land be used for a new terminal? Or cargo area so the existing terminals be expanded?
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3582
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:50 pm

Pacific wrote:
N'EX definitely has the Network advantage and it's a good choice if you're very unfamiliar with Japan or really value the comfort of the seat.


I don't think there's any difference between the N'EX and Skyliner in terms of seating. Both are 2+2, both are reserved trains. The Skyliner has crazy legroom too; I'm not sure what the pitch is on N'EX (I haven't ridden it since the E259 replaced the 253 sets).

It may not have always been this way, on either train... I clearly remember the N'EX being standing room only the last time I rode it in the 253 series days, and I also don't remember buying a reserved ticket the first time I rode the Skyliner (though it was empty so it didn't matter). But nowadays both are reserved trains and they require separate reserved seat tickets.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 687
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Re: Narita cleared to extend hours, build new runway

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:53 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
So I see an area to be acquired north of the new runway and a dotted line that I'm guessing is a new road? I don't read Japanese...will that parcel of land be used for a new terminal? Or cargo area so the existing terminals be expanded?


the dotted line is proposal expansion of Ken-Ō Expressway , intersected with Chūō Expressway

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