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aemoreira1981
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:37 pm

Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


Operations Planning...you had one job!
 
ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:54 pm

Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


Holy crap! That is seriously concerning.
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alasizon
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:17 pm

Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


That shouldn't be a multi-day issue. Landing rights can be handled ad-hoc with advance notice to CBP. Now if CBP is claiming they don't have the capacity during this time and is denying them the landing rights, that could be more interesting.
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ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:29 pm

Judging by posts on Facebook, people are not happy. There some horror stories posted. Seems like the airline is not telling passengers what the reasoning is. Apparently, even the crews didn’t know the reasonings.
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N212R
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:39 pm

Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


The Cancellations are due to internal Norwegian "regulatory issues" whose op specs don't allow for "circle to land" approach. The above statement is false and obvious obfuscation for one misleading reason or another.
 
ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:44 pm

N212R wrote:
Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


The Cancellations are due to internal Norwegian "regulatory issues" whose op specs don't allow for "circle to land" approach. The above statement is false and obvious obfuscation for one misleading reason or another.


And you know this for a fact? If you look, they’re still canceled for tomorrow. Wind hasn’t been an issue for a few days now. They’re not canceling flights days ahead of time, due to not being able to perform a circling approach. As others have stated, there are other approved approaches they can make.
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ual777
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:19 am

N212R wrote:
Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


The Cancellations are due to internal Norwegian "regulatory issues" whose op specs don't allow for "circle to land" approach. The above statement is false and obvious obfuscation for one misleading reason or another.


They. Can. Use. 22L.

Anytime EWR uses the stadium visual to 29 (or any 29 approach for that matter), anything 767 and bigger typically stays on 22L and its not an issue.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:33 am

N212R wrote:
Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


The Cancellations are due to internal Norwegian "regulatory issues" whose op specs don't allow for "circle to land" approach. The above statement is false and obvious obfuscation for one misleading reason or another.


This would seriously require further explanation. Its rare that EWR forces traffic on to 29 much less a circle to land approach. There are charted visual approaches to 29 at EWR that can be used as well as RNAV/RNP approaches to 29 at EWR. This ignores the fact that 22L/4R are the preferred landing runways. I bet very few of the airlines that operate into EWR regularly do circle to land approaches. Pilots generally will do a circle to land as a last resort to begin with as charted visuals and RNAV/RNP are safer and easier. EWR has issues on normal days even using rwy 29 due to issues with TEB traffic. It doesnt even use 29 for arrivals on many if not most days. Why would a circle to land restriction mean they cant use the runways at EWR which have ILS approaches and dont require circle to land? In the very unusual circumstance that a circle to land at EWR would be required, you could always divert to JFK.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:38 am

ual763 wrote:
Judging by posts on Facebook, people are not happy. There some horror stories posted. Seems like the airline is not telling passengers what the reasoning is. Apparently, even the crews didn’t know the reasonings.


No offense, what horror stories? They landed 20 miles away and were provided transportation that they likely didnt use if they were a tourist going into city anyway...what is this United 232?
 
ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:47 am

jfklganyc wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Judging by posts on Facebook, people are not happy. There some horror stories posted. Seems like the airline is not telling passengers what the reasoning is. Apparently, even the crews didn’t know the reasonings.


No offense, what horror stories? They landed 20 miles away and were provided transportation that they likely didnt use if they were a tourist going into city anyway...what is this United 232?


Image

No offense taken. Mostly the fact that the airport staff and crew didn’t know what was going on, and issues with the busses. But, also, this has been happening since Wednesday and is currently scheduled to continue, as Monday’s flights have also been canceled. Guess we all have different definitions of horror stories.
Last edited by ual763 on Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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brian415
Posts: 207
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:51 am

jfklganyc wrote:
No offense, what horror stories? They landed 20 miles away and were provided transportation that they likely didnt use if they were a tourist going into city anyway...what is this United 232?

The "20 miles away" is really like 75 minutes away, when you factor in NYC Subway, Path trains, very slow people mover, etc. It's nothing like a plane that was bound for SFO that gets sent to OAK (which is pretty much a piece of cake, compared to the EWR/JFK situation).

I would feel foolish if I were a European vacationing in Manhattan, to go through a bunch of trouble to get to EWR on Path for my return flight back to Yurrup, only to find out that I have to backtrack on a bus (in the direction I came from) to JFK.

If I had a onward DY connection in ORY or BCN, I may miss it, because the JFK/TATL flight has to depart maybe an hour or two late, amid all the confusion.

WowAir does not have these poor operational problems, despite their tickets being (usually) cheaper and their growth also being at breakneck speeds. You just have to endure a sometimes short (though occasionally long-ish) connection at KEF.
 
Mitico12
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:25 am

Apparently, and according to reputable sources, DY filed EWR as an alternate airport. Therefore, these flights to EWR were to be operated to JFK and not EWR according to their paperwork.

How the Port and CBP allowed this fiasco to happen for all these months with erroneous paperwork is beyond me.

Perhaps AA/DL/UA helped unearth this very disturbing "paperwork mistake"?
 
ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:33 am

Mitico12 wrote:
Apparently, and according to reputable sources, DY filed EWR as an alternate airport. Therefore, these flights to EWR were to be operated to JFK and not EWR according to their paperwork.

How the Port and CBP allowed this fiasco to happen for all these months with erroneous paperwork is beyond me.

Perhaps AA/DL/UA helped unearth this very disturbing "paperwork mistake"?


Sounds like they listed EWR as an Alternate in their OpSpecs. Do European regulated airlines even have OpSpecs, or is that only an FAA thing. If so, how long can it take to amend OpSpecs?
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ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:37 am

Also, I imagine, since they have been operating, essentially illegally into EWR for potentially quite a while now, I imagine there will be some hefty fines that could *possibly* be imposed. This is the last thing Norwegian needed right now. I would also venture to say that the Port Authority/CBP will want to keep it relatively hush hush as well, as the US3 may have a legal case against them now, if true, for not properly reviewing/vetting the authorized airports in the OpSpecs.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:35 am

ual777 wrote:
N212R wrote:
Flypd wrote:
The Cancellations are due to no landing rights being established at the beginning of their operations. Only discovered after internal audit of CBP and Port Authority. All passengers from EWR are being Bussed over to JFK


The Cancellations are due to internal Norwegian "regulatory issues" whose op specs don't allow for "circle to land" approach. The above statement is false and obvious obfuscation for one misleading reason or another.


They. Can. Use. 22L.

Anytime EWR uses the stadium visual to 29 (or any 29 approach for that matter), anything 767 and bigger typically stays on 22L and its not an issue.


I have seen even a 747 or an MD-11 use 29 on both bridge and stadium visuals. As another poster said, it's a flight plan issue. EWR should have been listed as the destination with JFK or SWF as an alternate.
 
brian415
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:11 am

Mitico12 wrote:
[..] Perhaps AA/DL/UA helped unearth this very disturbing "paperwork mistake"?

I think the most likely candidates are (in this order):
- UA (for obvious reasons)
- LH (due to TATL immunity with UA and AC)
- SK (because DY is invading many of its markets served via connection)
- IAG (because they launched Level and want to thwart DY)
 
ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:14 am

brian415 wrote:
Mitico12 wrote:
[..] Perhaps AA/DL/UA helped unearth this very disturbing "paperwork mistake"?

I think the most likely candidates are (in this order):
- UA (for obvious reasons)
- LH (due to TATL immunity with UA and AC)
- SK (because DY is invading many of its markets served via connection)
- IAG (because they launched Level and want to thwart DY)


All very likely. I think you could also throw Delta in there. They have a direct flight EWR-CDG as well.
Last edited by ual763 on Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:31 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
ual777 wrote:
N212R wrote:

The Cancellations are due to internal Norwegian "regulatory issues" whose op specs don't allow for "circle to land" approach. The above statement is false and obvious obfuscation for one misleading reason or another.


They. Can. Use. 22L.

Anytime EWR uses the stadium visual to 29 (or any 29 approach for that matter), anything 767 and bigger typically stays on 22L and its not an issue.


I have seen even a 747 or an MD-11 use 29 on both bridge and stadium visuals. As another poster said, it's a flight plan issue. EWR should have been listed as the destination with JFK or SWF as an alternate.


I think he was referring to the alternate listed on the airline’s approved OpSpecs, not the flight plan. All OpSpecs have a list of approved airports. They are listed under categories of Regular(JFK in the case of Norwegian), Refueling (typically ETOPS alternates),Provisional (similar to Alternate, but flights can be released there), and finally Alternate (EWR in the case of Norwegian’s OpSpecs apparently).

According to the OpSpecs from United (all airlines use an almost universal template, btw), “An alternate may be designated as an alternate in a dispatch release; it may not be designated as a destination.”

It sounds as if Norwegian accidentally submitted EWR as an alternate airport instead of a regular airport in their OpSpecs. Companies can change their OpSpecs, but any changes have to be approved by the FAA, or in the case of Norwegian, some other agency possibly? But this takes time as one can imagine.
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JFKIceman
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:39 pm

The Saga is over DY will resume regular operations at EWR tomorrow 3/20
 
ual763
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:22 pm

I wouldn’t call it over. Sure, they may resume normal ops tomorrow (supposedly). It doesn’t negate the fact that they’ve been flying into EWR illegally for many months. How come there are no news articles on this? Why is the Port Authority/CBP covering this up? Are they afraid of a US3 lawsuit? There are still a lot of questions to be answered, in my opinion.
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JBLUA320
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:36 pm

CPHBob wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
CPHBob wrote:
Hello! First post from a long time lurker! ... May i ask people in the know if there is any similarities between EWR and LAX regarding landing profiles? Reason for asking is: Norwegian delayed and ultimately cancelled their flights from CPH/LAX some days ago due to "restrictions"!


Could that be “financial” restrictions as in money losing?

I have no idea tbh, and i did not at first think twice about the cancellations untill i found this thread, and went back and re-read the the explanation to cancel flights from/to LAX. According to Norwegian the cause is/was "Airport restrictions in LAX" (translated) so my guess is as good as yours! Even though i got a good imagination! But speculations is not my main reasoning to ask, and post.


The flight was delayed and CBP was closed/could not accept the aircraft, so the flight was cancelled and rescheduled with a new flight number the next day.
 
N212R
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:18 pm

JFKIceman wrote:
The Saga is over DY will resume regular operations at EWR tomorrow 3/20


Wishful thinking doesn't make it so. The unanswered questions remain. DY has been flying into EWR for months. Why have they been doing so on a supposedly "accidentally" submitted OpSpec? Why were none of the parties in any hurry to correct a simply paperwork mistake? What technical reasons would DY have to classify EWR as an Alternate airport rather than a Regular airport?
 
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spinkid
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Re: Norwegian Flight Cancellations @ EWR

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:35 am

Did anyone ever get the real reason for this issue?

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