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4engines4lnghll
Topic Author
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AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:03 am

On Wednesday, March 14th multiple drunk passengers who were traveling together caused quite a rucus onboard. The intoxicated male assaulted one of the flight attendants and tried to open the cabin door. He was saying how everyone should go down and that he would fight anyone that tried to calm him down. Multiple passengers tried to subdue him and it almost ended up into an all out brawl. Flight attendants restrained him and the flight was divirted to PTY. Policie came on board and arrested the couple who were traveling with their 8 year old son.

Multiple passengers recorded the incident. Keep in mind this went on for 2 hours.
Last edited by qf789 on Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed CAP locks
4engines4lnghll
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:04 am

Where's there a link for this?
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
4engines4lnghll
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:07 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
Where's there a link for this?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KDFW/MPTO

I know someone who was on board, but I am not allowed to name who it was. For company policy reasons
4engines4lnghll
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:08 am

Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
4engines4lnghll
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:12 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.


And apparently other passengers told the flight attendants that the couple were spotted at a restaurant in the terminal drinking.
I don’t know how they got past the gate agent.
4engines4lnghll
 
4engines4lnghll
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 am

I’m sure there will be videos uploaded soon of the chaos onboard
4engines4lnghll
 
SMUtexan
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.


I didn't see it mentioned anywhere but did the passengers board in Dallas overtly intoxicated? DFW to Panama City is 4+ hours so even if this debacle went on for 2 hours the passengers in question definitely had plenty of time to get drunk on the plane (whether via being served by the FA's or breaking open duty free). Not sure if the gate agents at DFW are to blame unless these people stumbled onto the plane already hammered in DFW.

Posted this before I saw the OP's message about other passengers seeing the couple drinking at DFW. Although I've definitely knocked back 3 or 4 drinks in a lounge or restaurant before a flight and been fine.
 
davescj
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:24 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.


I am not sure the ground agents failed. Depending on how much they drank prior to boarding, and when, they may not have appeared to be too drunk. For example, they had a drink or two. But then (say near the boarding gate) they had a double just before boarding. The alcohol may not have hit their system yet. Then I suspect they drank a bit more on board (perhaps crew didn't cut them off in time?). As pointed out, they were 4 hrs into the flight.

It is sad that people cannot behave in public.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
Max Q
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:36 am

4engines4lnghll wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.


And apparently other passengers told the flight attendants that the couple were spotted at a restaurant in the terminal drinking.
I don’t know how they got past the gate agent.



Easily, unless you’re overtly inebriated you’re getting on board


I always thought it’s ironic that we react
with shock and horror when these alcohol related incidents occur yet when traveling
by air access to alcohol is everywhere


Numerous airport bars open at all hours, booze a passenger may bring on board with them, not to mention all the drinks available on board add up to a very permissive alcohol environment


I don’t have a problem with that but we can’t be surprised when some can’t handle it
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:46 am

davescj wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.


I am not sure the ground agents failed. Depending on how much they drank prior to boarding, and when, they may not have appeared to be too drunk. For example, they had a drink or two. But then (say near the boarding gate) they had a double just before boarding. The alcohol may not have hit their system yet. Then I suspect they drank a bit more on board (perhaps crew didn't cut them off in time?). As pointed out, they were 4 hrs into the flight.

It is sad that people cannot behave in public.


additionally the interaction with the gate agent is so brief how could they be expected to detect anything?
 
DDR
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:48 am

Police came on board and arrested the couple who were traveling with their 8 year old son.

Parents of the year. Not. poor kid.
 
ltbewr
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:00 am

I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:32 am

4engines4lnghll wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Where's there a link for this?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KDFW/MPTO

I know someone who was on board, but I am not allowed to name who it was. For company policy reasons


Having taken that flight more than once, I would have been pissed. I usually like to bed down around Costa Rica. People who cannot control their drinking SMH!...and with a kid, just wow!
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
INFINITI329
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:13 am

ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


Lol, no ...terrible idea as far as the United States is concerned I cant speak for other countries
 
Antarius
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:32 am

ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


The passenger should be billed the full cost of diversion and makeup for the flight. Lots of us can handle our liquor without behaving like buffoons.. so IMO, the problem people should be dealt with firmly vs rules for the rest.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Max Q
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:46 am

ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.




Seriously?!


You want to ‘spot check’ passengers for alcohol, make them blow into a breathalyzer before they can board ?


What about people on medication with known and unknown side effects? how you
going to weed them out, what about people that are afraid of flying? never know what they’ll do, food allergies, fear of enclosed spaces, they could really go bonkers...


Might as well park all the aero planes and
travel by ship, then again..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
ME720
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:03 am

ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


Punishing the 99.999999% of us who like to have a drink or two and still behave in public? U should go and work for Donald trump!!!
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:49 am

When people do this and cause a situation of this nature and a diversion, they should be banned from flying that airline for life, made to pay for the costs of the diversion, and barred from flying for 5 years followed by another 5 year probationary period and slapped with the "SSSS" on their boarding passes thereafter.
 
ltbewr
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:18 pm

ME720 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


Punishing the 99.999999% of us who like to have a drink or two and still behave in public? U should go and work for Donald trump!!!


I know that all but a few pax either don't drink or if do so, in moderation - as I have done - before or during a flight, but sadly a few do enough to seriously disrupt flights, cause diversions, hassles and risks if an emergency occurs. I also know for some being borderline drunk or high is to deal with the anxieties of flying. My suggestion of the use of screening breathalyzers would be on those during security checks or as they approach gate areas that appear to be obviously intoxicated and behaving rudely. I would also agree with financial and criminal penalties for those who's intoxication causes diversions and assaults.
 
IPFreely
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:45 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years.


Urban legend tends to exaggerate these things. He never served any jail time. He was on probation for two years.

http://www.flightsfromhell.com/2010/02/ ... reak-outs/
 
dfwjim1
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:56 pm

In the AA diversion issue would the family remain in the custody of the Panamian authorities or would they be shipped back to the United States?
 
ozark1
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:04 pm

There were 245 passengers on this flight. I'm guessing maybe 3 agents. There is absolutely no way they have enough direct interaction with each person to determine whether or not they are intoxicated. Traveling has become so much more automated, needing less contact between personnel and passengers.
There is a term called a "functioning alcoholic". A person may come across as completely sober, yet once they are in a drinking environment (the cabin of an airplane, where alcohol goes to your brain much faster), the behavior could completely change, without prior knowledge by cabin crew or gate staff.
There is no longer a duty free cart on AA.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:22 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I know that all but a few pax either don't drink or if do so, in moderation - as I have done - before or during a flight, but sadly a few do enough to seriously disrupt flights, cause diversions, hassles and risks if an emergency occurs. I also know for some being borderline drunk or high is to deal with the anxieties of flying. My suggestion of the use of screening breathalyzers would be on those during security checks or as they approach gate areas that appear to be obviously intoxicated and behaving rudely. I would also agree with financial and criminal penalties for those who's intoxication causes diversions and assaults.



I understand and appreciate your suggestion, which boiled down, is simply an identical application of breathalyzers from the road to the airport. But - just as untold people, every day, continue to drive under the influence, people will continue to "fly under the influence", and there's nothing wrong/illegal about it. Having a law enforcement tool isn't going to improve anything. If a gate agent is already concerned about a passengers state, they don't need a piece of machinery to take action. They, the flight crew, airport security have the authority to dictate who boards and who doesn't.

Your intent is good, but will not change anything.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:51 pm

I wonder if there will come a day when some body of authority will have the courage to say: "for the safety of the passengers and the crew, this is a non-drinking flight" (and airport, etc, etc).

Now calm down - yes, I know - these incidents are caused by a tiny fraction of...... yada, yada. I get it.

We all "check our rights" when entering an airport, a security area, an aircraft. Smoking is no longer permitted. Nail clippers not allowed. Guns not allowed (*amazingly, even in the US), we're required to stow luggage, keep the tray up, buckle our belts, comply with crew instruction.

It seems to me that the "benefit" of access to alcohol is rapidly being outweighed by the risks. By risks, yes, I do mean inconvenience and cost; I'm not gonna get hyperbolic, a flight isn't likely to go down in flames because pax have drank too much. BUT - Not only are flights occasionally required to divert, the additional stress to hundreds of people, the cost of fuel, missed connections, ill will of affected pax towards..... anyone..... all has a cost. A real cost. And what exactly are the benefits, outside of money generation? I struggle to answer that question in any way that isn't a poor comment on society at large. Are we so messed up that eliminating beer, wine, or a rum & coke for a day of traveling is such a burden? A "violation of our rights"?

More people are flying, the aircraft are more dense and less comfortable, high load factors, personal space is massively reduced, stress created by security, rapid turn around time, confusing boarding procedures and too busy gate areas...... poor communication & contact by the thinned out and stressed airline staff (ground and air)...... add in booze and an already fragile/edgy/easily provoked person(s), and these in-air incidents are inevitable.

Its time to consider that intoxicants and air travel are a poor mix. Just as it has always been for crew, it too is for pax.


*** I will indulge, and more than one, particularly on longer flights, in premium class; its relaxing. I enjoy. I have no problem forsaking it, for the "safety and comfort of the flight". It just isn't important. Safe flights are important. Bathrooms are important. heck, temperature regulation on the plane is important. Booze isn't.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:19 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
I wonder if there will come a day when some body of authority will have the courage to say: "for the safety of the passengers and the crew, this is a non-drinking flight" (and airport, etc, etc).

Now calm down - yes, I know - these incidents are caused by a tiny fraction of...... yada, yada. I get it.

We all "check our rights" when entering an airport, a security area, an aircraft. Smoking is no longer permitted. Nail clippers not allowed. Guns not allowed (*amazingly, even in the US), we're required to stow luggage, keep the tray up, buckle our belts, comply with crew instruction.

It seems to me that the "benefit" of access to alcohol is rapidly being outweighed by the risks. By risks, yes, I do mean inconvenience and cost; I'm not gonna get hyperbolic, a flight isn't likely to go down in flames because pax have drank too much. BUT - Not only are flights occasionally required to divert, the additional stress to hundreds of people, the cost of fuel, missed connections, ill will of affected pax towards..... anyone..... all has a cost. A real cost. And what exactly are the benefits, outside of money generation? I struggle to answer that question in any way that isn't a poor comment on society at large. Are we so messed up that eliminating beer, wine, or a rum & coke for a day of traveling is such a burden? A "violation of our rights"?

More people are flying, the aircraft are more dense and less comfortable, high load factors, personal space is massively reduced, stress created by security, rapid turn around time, confusing boarding procedures and too busy gate areas...... poor communication & contact by the thinned out and stressed airline staff (ground and air)...... add in booze and an already fragile/edgy/easily provoked person(s), and these in-air incidents are inevitable.

Its time to consider that intoxicants and air travel are a poor mix. Just as it has always been for crew, it too is for pax.


*** I will indulge, and more than one, particularly on longer flights, in premium class; its relaxing. I enjoy. I have no problem forsaking it, for the "safety and comfort of the flight". It just isn't important. Safe flights are important. Bathrooms are important. heck, temperature regulation on the plane is important. Booze isn't.


This seems to be a solution in search of a problem or, perhaps more accurately, a solution vastly disproportionate to the problem. When I get home from work on Friday afternoon, I’ll often have a beer or a glass of wine. If Friday happens to be a travel day that week and I’m at the airport at 6:00 or 7;00 Friday night, why shouldn’t I have that same glass of wine?

Your answer, I assume, is that others make bad choices. But by that logic shouldn’t we also bar bars and restaurants from serving alcohol?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FlyHappy
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:29 am

Cubsrule wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I wonder if there will come a day when some body of authority will have the courage to say: "for the safety of the passengers and the crew, this is a non-drinking flight" (and airport, etc, etc).

Now calm down - yes, I know - these incidents are caused by a tiny fraction of...... yada, yada. I get it.

We all "check our rights" when entering an airport, a security area, an aircraft. Smoking is no longer permitted. Nail clippers not allowed. Guns not allowed (*amazingly, even in the US), we're required to stow luggage, keep the tray up, buckle our belts, comply with crew instruction.

It seems to me that the "benefit" of access to alcohol is rapidly being outweighed by the risks. By risks, yes, I do mean inconvenience and cost; I'm not gonna get hyperbolic, a flight isn't likely to go down in flames because pax have drank too much. BUT - Not only are flights occasionally required to divert, the additional stress to hundreds of people, the cost of fuel, missed connections, ill will of affected pax towards..... anyone..... all has a cost. A real cost. And what exactly are the benefits, outside of money generation? I struggle to answer that question in any way that isn't a poor comment on society at large. Are we so messed up that eliminating beer, wine, or a rum & coke for a day of traveling is such a burden? A "violation of our rights"?

More people are flying, the aircraft are more dense and less comfortable, high load factors, personal space is massively reduced, stress created by security, rapid turn around time, confusing boarding procedures and too busy gate areas...... poor communication & contact by the thinned out and stressed airline staff (ground and air)...... add in booze and an already fragile/edgy/easily provoked person(s), and these in-air incidents are inevitable.

Its time to consider that intoxicants and air travel are a poor mix. Just as it has always been for crew, it too is for pax.


*** I will indulge, and more than one, particularly on longer flights, in premium class; its relaxing. I enjoy. I have no problem forsaking it, for the "safety and comfort of the flight". It just isn't important. Safe flights are important. Bathrooms are important. heck, temperature regulation on the plane is important. Booze isn't.


This seems to be a solution in search of a problem or, perhaps more accurately, a solution vastly disproportionate to the problem. When I get home from work on Friday afternoon, I’ll often have a beer or a glass of wine. If Friday happens to be a travel day that week and I’m at the airport at 6:00 or 7;00 Friday night, why shouldn’t I have that same glass of wine?

Your answer, I assume, is that others make bad choices. But by that logic shouldn’t we also bar bars and restaurants from serving alcohol?


Not at all. I'm not proposing any kind of policing whatsoever.
I'm simply saying that perhaps when you consider the big picture, there really is no strong reason why airports and aircraft must serve alcohol. That's it.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14573
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:35 am

FlyHappy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I wonder if there will come a day when some body of authority will have the courage to say: "for the safety of the passengers and the crew, this is a non-drinking flight" (and airport, etc, etc).

Now calm down - yes, I know - these incidents are caused by a tiny fraction of...... yada, yada. I get it.

We all "check our rights" when entering an airport, a security area, an aircraft. Smoking is no longer permitted. Nail clippers not allowed. Guns not allowed (*amazingly, even in the US), we're required to stow luggage, keep the tray up, buckle our belts, comply with crew instruction.

It seems to me that the "benefit" of access to alcohol is rapidly being outweighed by the risks. By risks, yes, I do mean inconvenience and cost; I'm not gonna get hyperbolic, a flight isn't likely to go down in flames because pax have drank too much. BUT - Not only are flights occasionally required to divert, the additional stress to hundreds of people, the cost of fuel, missed connections, ill will of affected pax towards..... anyone..... all has a cost. A real cost. And what exactly are the benefits, outside of money generation? I struggle to answer that question in any way that isn't a poor comment on society at large. Are we so messed up that eliminating beer, wine, or a rum & coke for a day of traveling is such a burden? A "violation of our rights"?

More people are flying, the aircraft are more dense and less comfortable, high load factors, personal space is massively reduced, stress created by security, rapid turn around time, confusing boarding procedures and too busy gate areas...... poor communication & contact by the thinned out and stressed airline staff (ground and air)...... add in booze and an already fragile/edgy/easily provoked person(s), and these in-air incidents are inevitable.

Its time to consider that intoxicants and air travel are a poor mix. Just as it has always been for crew, it too is for pax.


*** I will indulge, and more than one, particularly on longer flights, in premium class; its relaxing. I enjoy. I have no problem forsaking it, for the "safety and comfort of the flight". It just isn't important. Safe flights are important. Bathrooms are important. heck, temperature regulation on the plane is important. Booze isn't.


This seems to be a solution in search of a problem or, perhaps more accurately, a solution vastly disproportionate to the problem. When I get home from work on Friday afternoon, I’ll often have a beer or a glass of wine. If Friday happens to be a travel day that week and I’m at the airport at 6:00 or 7;00 Friday night, why shouldn’t I have that same glass of wine?

Your answer, I assume, is that others make bad choices. But by that logic shouldn’t we also bar bars and restaurants from serving alcohol?


Not at all. I'm not proposing any kind of policing whatsoever.
I'm simply saying that perhaps when you consider the big picture, there really is no strong reason why airports and aircraft must serve alcohol. That's it.


The strong reason is that people enjoy it, no? The same reason we have IFE.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:43 am

Cubsrule wrote:

The strong reason is that people enjoy it, no? The same reason we have IFE.


poor comparison. a high % of aircraft have no IFE. IFE doesn't play a role in notable pax conflict.
lots of other transportation seem to be fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol.

it isn't necessary.
 
sw733
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:50 am

FlyHappy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The strong reason is that people enjoy it, no? The same reason we have IFE.


poor comparison. a high % of aircraft have no IFE. IFE doesn't play a role in notable pax conflict.
lots of other transportation seem to be fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol.

it isn't necessary.

And a high percentage of people who drink (even heavily) before or during a flight cause no problem whatsoever.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:50 am

sw733 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The strong reason is that people enjoy it, no? The same reason we have IFE.


poor comparison. a high % of aircraft have no IFE. IFE doesn't play a role in notable pax conflict.
lots of other transportation seem to be fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol.

it isn't necessary.

And a high percentage of people who drink (even heavily) before or during a flight cause no problem whatsoever.


yep. never indicated otherwise.
 
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SamYeager2016
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:59 am

FlyHappy wrote:
I'm simply saying that perhaps when you consider the big picture, there really is no strong reason why airports and aircraft must serve alcohol. That's it.


Perhaps you should consider changing your name to "MiseryGuts" as you seem to be doing your level best to ensure that the rest of us will not "FlyHappy". :sarcastic:
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:42 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The strong reason is that people enjoy it, no? The same reason we have IFE.


poor comparison. a high % of aircraft have no IFE. IFE doesn't play a role in notable pax conflict.
lots of other transportation seem to be fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol.

it isn't necessary.


What transportation is "fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol?" Certainly, plenty of trains and boats serve alcohol.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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scbriml
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:45 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
What transportation is "fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol?" Certainly, plenty of trains and boats serve alcohol.


Ha, ever taken a night bus in London? They won't let you on if you're sober! :wink2:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:01 pm

Here's an idea;
The gate agent makes an initial assessment of each passenger (in the very limited time they have available).
If they perceive a safety risk due to a (possibly) drunk passenger, they can deny the passenger boarding.
If the passenger disputes this, they (the passenger) can request that they are breathalysed.....
You could even double-this up with an incentive. If the pax is drunk, they pay for the breathalyser. If they are sober, they "win" a bottle of wine (to be consumed after the flight..... :D , or perhaps a gift-voucher would be more appropriate)

No draconian enforcement here; just turn the problem around. The onus passes to the passenger to prove they are sober. .

Obviously there need to be checks and balances here. Gate agent performance in this area can be measured in terms of how often they get it right, which can include half-points if the passenger has been drinking to a lesser extent, but still "passes" a breathalyser limit. And there has to be recognition that some gate agents are better placed than others to make this type of assessment. For instance, someone with a hyper sensitive olfactory system, and an aversion to alcohol, might not be the best judge. Or they could be exactly what a particular airline needs. (ME3 ?) :?

A gate agent who gets it consistently wrong needs to have a back-up who is better skilled at this task.

Heck, you could even organise an in-house competition for the best detection rates. Remember, pulling out passengers who are not drunk will count against you, so there is no reward for overkill.

Too much?
It's not just drivers who are subject to drink restrictions. Many jobs require that you are sober, either for safety issues (e.g. operator at a Nuclear power plant) or for customer interface issues (e.g half-drunk gate agent :lol: )
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
commpilot
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:13 pm

Walking and talking fine, it doesn't matter if an agent is smelling alcohol, pax will be boarded. Only when it becomes visibly impaired will the agents start asking questions. Oh yeah and then there is the fact that people still bring with own alcohol on and drink it, which is an FAR violation on US registered planes.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:43 pm

Cubsrule wrote:

What transportation is "fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol?" Certainly, plenty of trains and boats serve alcohol.


and, plenty of trains and boats do not serve alcohol. you'd probably be hard pressed to find many coach buses, taxis, light rail, helicopter, subways, maglevs........ that promote sale and consumption.

this is silly, no? I'm pretty sure you can accept my point without agreeing that there's nothing special about handling vast crowds of people thru a complex global web of technology, logistics, security and precision without promoting booze.


SamYeager2016 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I'm simply saying that perhaps when you consider the big picture, there really is no strong reason why airports and aircraft must serve alcohol. That's it.


Perhaps you should consider changing your name to "MiseryGuts" as you seem to be doing your level best to ensure that the rest of us will not "FlyHappy". :sarcastic:


I was wondering what level of silliness my newly found position would reveal. Why do you suppose it sooooooo very important to you and many others that booze be at hand at every turn in the air travel experience? Why does the mere suggestion of my logic (which is utterly commercially unviable, I know) bring out ridiculous notions.

You are unable to happily fly without consuming alcohol? I am a miserable "party pooper" for suggesting an evolution of air travel is logical?
 
bagoldex
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:00 pm

4engines4lnghll wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.


And apparently other passengers told the flight attendants that the couple were spotted at a restaurant in the terminal drinking.
I don’t know how they got past the gate agent.


Perhaps they imbibed more onboard. If everyone "spotted at a restaurant in the terminal drinking" was denied boarding you'd have a lot of empty planes flying around.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:14 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What transportation is "fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol?" Certainly, plenty of trains and boats serve alcohol.


and, plenty of trains and boats do not serve alcohol. you'd probably be hard pressed to find many coach buses, taxis, light rail, helicopter, subways, maglevs........ that promote sale and consumption.

this is silly, no? I'm pretty sure you can accept my point without agreeing that there's nothing special about handling vast crowds of people thru a complex global web of technology, logistics, security and precision without promoting booze.


Is it offering booze or promoting booze that you oppose?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
9w748capt
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:46 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What transportation is "fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol?" Certainly, plenty of trains and boats serve alcohol.


and, plenty of trains and boats do not serve alcohol. you'd probably be hard pressed to find many coach buses, taxis, light rail, helicopter, subways, maglevs........ that promote sale and consumption.

this is silly, no? I'm pretty sure you can accept my point without agreeing that there's nothing special about handling vast crowds of people thru a complex global web of technology, logistics, security and precision without promoting booze.


SamYeager2016 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
I'm simply saying that perhaps when you consider the big picture, there really is no strong reason why airports and aircraft must serve alcohol. That's it.


Why don't you just stick to flying KU or SV or MS or any other of the umpteen dry airlines out there? It's not like you don't have a choice.

Perhaps you should consider changing your name to "MiseryGuts" as you seem to be doing your level best to ensure that the rest of us will not "FlyHappy". :sarcastic:


I was wondering what level of silliness my newly found position would reveal. Why do you suppose it sooooooo very important to you and many others that booze be at hand at every turn in the air travel experience? Why does the mere suggestion of my logic (which is utterly commercially unviable, I know) bring out ridiculous notions.

You are unable to happily fly without consuming alcohol? I am a miserable "party pooper" for suggesting an evolution of air travel is logical?


Why don't you fly SV or KU or MS or any of the other umpteen dry airlines out there? Believe it or not there are those of us who can drink responsibly AND board an airplane. Hard to believe but it's true.
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:41 pm

"Believe it or not there are those of us who can drink responsibly AND board an airplane. Hard to believe but it's true."

Some of that has to do with timing and pacing.

For instance, One rum and coke before take off; another midflight; and another before landing will not render anyone incapable of standing and walking off the plane. But three rum and cokes before take off may very well change how you react to instructions from the flight attendants as well as how you react to small issues with other passengers.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:49 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Big fail on the ground agents at DFW.


Maybe the cabin altitude got to them after they were in flight. Its not impossible that they were in control of themselves enough when they boarded the plane that the gate agents and flight attendants didn't block them from boarding due to intoxication. Add some more drinks while in flight plus the cabin altitude, and they could be seriously intoxicated.
 
Max Q
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:11 pm

Hate to rain on your parade FHappy but there are people around you in the world that are drinking alcohol 24/7, any one of them could ‘lose their mind’ without notice and be a hazard to your safety, as could someone who’s drink ten Red Bull’s, eighteen cups of coffee or just a chap having a bad day


Anything could happen anytime, thats the world we live in, your attempts to make yourself ‘safe’ from it, by limiting other people’s choices are puritanical in the extreme, and a waste of time
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
777PHX
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:19 pm

Only the 12 year olds on this website would think drinking, or heaven forbid, even being a little intoxicated on a plane, rises to the same level as some sort of atrocity.
 
7673mech
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:39 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


Lol, no ...terrible idea as far as the United States is concerned I cant speak for other countries


Why is it a terrible idea for the United States.
So tired of people not controling there alcohol on flights, sporting events, concerts. etc.
Some of us know how to drink and have it not bother others, those who can not should be banned from everything.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:10 am

7673mech wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


Lol, no ...terrible idea as far as the United States is concerned I cant speak for other countries


Why is it a terrible idea for the United States.
So tired of people not controling there alcohol on flights, sporting events, concerts. etc.
Some of us know how to drink and have it not bother others, those who can not should be banned from everything.


"Spot checks" as you call them would be mixing civil and criminal issues. Are airlines willing to put their reputations and bank accounts on the line for a device that not admissible in any court in the United States?
 
ltbewr
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:57 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
7673mech wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

Lol, no ...terrible idea as far as the United States is concerned I cant speak for other countries


Why is it a terrible idea for the United States.
So tired of people not controling there alcohol on flights, sporting events, concerts. etc.
Some of us know how to drink and have it not bother others, those who can not should be banned from everything.


"Spot checks" as you call them would be mixing civil and criminal issues. Are airlines willing to put their reputations and bank accounts on the line for a device that not admissible in any court in the United States?

The point of 'spot checks' of pax that appear to be intoxicated at a level at which it would be illegal to operate a motor vehicles on public roadways. It is not to use it for criminal or civil prosecution, but to keep such persons from being a hassle or risk to themselves or others on the plane during the flight. We have seen airlines and airport catch pilots and crew with alcohol screening devices who were intoxicated at the extremely low levels from flying for good legal reasons. The use of handheld screening devices would also help as back up of the airline or airport as to why they prevented that person from boarding. They could be put onto another flight if possible, perhaps with moderate money payments, I would be a lot cheaper than a diversion like the OP discusses.
 
WNCrew
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:58 am

4engines4lnghll wrote:
On Wednesday, March 14th multiple drunk passengers who were traveling together caused quite a rucus onboard. The intoxicated male assaulted one of the flight attendants and tried to open the cabin door.


Travelling is stressful, poor thing, he was just having a little fun eh? ... and likely stressed because he had to follow some instructions from the FAs.. (eyeroll).
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:15 am

ME720 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


Punishing the 99.999999% of us who like to have a drink or two and still behave in public? U should go and work for Donald trump!!!


That makes no sense. Punishing everybody for the actions of few is a policy favored by liberals.
a.
 
bagoldex
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE DIVERTS DUE TO DRUNK PAX

Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:35 am

MAH4546 wrote:
ME720 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I wish sometimes spot checks could be done with pax using with hand held alcohol breath testers by cops to screen for DWI's. We are hearing many more of these drunk passengers events, likely in part due to social media and more willing to post such events.
Of course, this could have been worse - recall the EZE-JFK flight in the 1990's where the extremely drunk pax in 1st Class actually did a #2 on a food cart. He got arrested and sent to jail for like 2 years. Drunk pax are a danger to themselves and others. G-d forbid if they interfered with escape from a crash landing and fire so others end up dying because of them.


Punishing the 99.999999% of us who like to have a drink or two and still behave in public? U should go and work for Donald trump!!!


That makes no sense. Punishing everybody for the actions of few is a policy favored by liberals.


I don't see it so much as a conservative vs. liberal thing but rather as an authoritarian asshole vs. non-authoritarian asshole scenario.
Last edited by bagoldex on Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
JRL3289
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Re: AA 997 DFW-EZE diverts due to PTY due to drunk passenger

Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:54 am

commpilot wrote:
Walking and talking fine, it doesn't matter if an agent is smelling alcohol, pax will be boarded. Only when it becomes visibly impaired will the agents start asking questions. Oh yeah and then there is the fact that people still bring with own alcohol on and drink it, which is an FAR violation on US registered planes.


What empirical evidence exists to suggest that any sizable percentage of the flying population brings alcohol with them onto a plane? Am I flying on completely different planes all the time and missing all of these crazy stories about alcohol causing issues or...?

FlyHappy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What transportation is "fully acceptable without the sale and promotion of alcohol?" Certainly, plenty of trains and boats serve alcohol.


and, plenty of trains and boats do not serve alcohol. you'd probably be hard pressed to find many coach buses, taxis, light rail, helicopter, subways, maglevs........ that promote sale and consumption.

this is silly, no? I'm pretty sure you can accept my point without agreeing that there's nothing special about handling vast crowds of people thru a complex global web of technology, logistics, security and precision without promoting booze.


I haven't been on a flight where alcohol is "promoted" any more than the free coffee, tea, water, and soda is. What airlines are you flying? Offering alcohol and promoting its consumption are two totally different things.

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