Maybe they need more B77W for other high demand routes like New York, Boston in summer season, and possibly Delhi
Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
migair54 wrote:I think we will see Swiss ordering the A350 sooner than later, with 30 or more A350 they can replace the A330, A340 and in the future B77W.
aemoreira1981 wrote:The A330 can operate to ORD. That said, I see a top-up order at LH going to LX, to replace both the A343s and B77Ws (the B77Ws would move to LH to retire the B744s). That said, there is a question of what replaces the A343s at Edelweiss.
migair54 wrote:I don't think they will order more B77W or B77X because for some roues is OK but I think it is way too big for many routes they currently have, .
DUSZRH wrote:The (remaining) 343 are newly refurbished and will not be replaced any time soon. There will be a group-wide order for 2022-2026 for all of LH Group 343, 772(OS), maybe the oldest 333 and EW's 332 (they are leased).
holzmann wrote:Will be part of a larger LH Group order to address future fleet needs at LH, LX, OS, etc. I predict a split order of B789/J and A359/K, about 15-20 each for all three airlines.
RainerBoeing777 wrote:I do not think Singapore and Hong Kong are the main financial centers of Asia the demand of business passengers in very large SQ flies with the A380 and CX restart its operations in 2015 once with the B77W, tourism in Thailand is very large and high demand Thai always operate large aircraft on this route it was time for Swiss to increase capacity, LAX and SFO are routes of equal high demand even as UA started a seasonal flight SFO-ZRH, the B77W if key to Swiss, the economy in China, Japan and India is growing and growing stronger, and routes such as Shanghai, Tokyo, Boston and Delhi if they need the capacity of the B77W, do not rule out the A350 in the future is essential for routes such as Beijing, Johannesburg, New York, Miami, Mumbai, Dubai and open new routes
Heavierthanair wrote:In addition to replacing the A343 Swiss has an issue with two separate pilot groups with substantially different pay scales. The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries. The two pilot groups do not even talk to each other if they are staying at the same outstation. Presumably that issue has to be resolved before new long range aircraft are added to the fleet.
Heavierthanair wrote:G'day
In addition to replacing the A343 Swiss has an issue with two separate pilot groups with substantially different pay scales. The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries. The two pilot groups do not even talk to each other if they are staying at the same outstation. Presumably that issue has to be resolved before new long range aircraft are added to the fleet.
Cheers
Peter
migair54 wrote:I think we will see Swiss ordering the A350 sooner than later, with 30 or more A350 they can replace the A330, A340 and in the future B77W.
Heavierthanair wrote:The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries.
Ronaldo747 wrote:Ordering B77Ws, an entirely new type for Swiss, as an interim solution for switching back to Airbus only a couple of years later would be nonsense. Or other way round, if they would plan with the A350, it would have been nonsense to order the B77W.
migair54 wrote:DUSZRH wrote:The (remaining) 343 are newly refurbished and will not be replaced any time soon. There will be a group-wide order for 2022-2026 for all of LH Group 343, 772(OS), maybe the oldest 333 and EW's 332 (they are leased).
Yes, that way they will get a much better price and also they can standarize the different fleets, It is a wise decision, however if they want to start getting the planes by 2022 they will have to place to the order soon, actually I don't know how long is the line of airlines waiting for B787, A350 or B77X but I think we are talking about a couple of years at least.
holzmann wrote:Will be part of a larger LH Group order to address future fleet needs at LH, LX, OS, etc. I predict a split order of B789/J and A359/K, about 15-20 each for all three airlines.
Why to split the order?? I think getting same plane in different sizes and configurations is better option, specially if we are talking about only 40-50 planes.
RainerBoeing777 wrote:I do not think Singapore and Hong Kong are the main financial centers of Asia the demand of business passengers in very large SQ flies with the A380 and CX restart its operations in 2015 once with the B77W, tourism in Thailand is very large and high demand Thai always operate large aircraft on this route it was time for Swiss to increase capacity, LAX and SFO are routes of equal high demand even as UA started a seasonal flight SFO-ZRH, the B77W if key to Swiss, the economy in China, Japan and India is growing and growing stronger, and routes such as Shanghai, Tokyo, Boston and Delhi if they need the capacity of the B77W, do not rule out the A350 in the future is essential for routes such as Beijing, Johannesburg, New York, Miami, Mumbai, Dubai and open new routes
For that routes where they want high capacity the A350-1000 is almost the same size of the B77W and they can always swap between 900 and 1000 if seasonal changes are required. I just said that having A350 is great because with 1 aircraft type they can replace the 3 types they currently operate.
Heavierthanair wrote:In addition to replacing the A343 Swiss has an issue with two separate pilot groups with substantially different pay scales. The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries. The two pilot groups do not even talk to each other if they are staying at the same outstation. Presumably that issue has to be resolved before new long range aircraft are added to the fleet.
I did not know that one, it's a good story but maybe the management is happy to have the pilot divided, divide and conquer, you never know.
Ronaldo747 wrote:migair54 wrote:I think we will see Swiss ordering the A350 sooner than later, with 30 or more A350 they can replace the A330, A340 and in the future B77W.
Ordering B77Ws, an entirely new type for Swiss, as an interim solution for switching back to Airbus only a couple of years later would be nonsense. Or other way round, if they would plan with the A350, it would have been nonsense to order the B77W.
I think they will switch their longhaul aircraft to Boeing and order 787-9 and maybe -10 down the road with one pool of 777/787 longhaul pilots. I also think a small fleet of 777-9 could work for Swiss.Heavierthanair wrote:The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries.
At least the 777 chief pilot used to fly the A330/A340 before switching to the 777.
lightsaber wrote:Why split an order? Simple, LH Tecnic receives great prices on drawings and parts as part of any order. It is why they bought both CEO engines and both NEO engines.
lightsaber wrote:migair54 wrote:DUSZRH wrote:The (remaining) 343 are newly refurbished and will not be replaced any time soon. There will be a group-wide order for 2022-2026 for all of LH Group 343, 772(OS), maybe the oldest 333 and EW's 332 (they are leased).
Yes, that way they will get a much better price and also they can standarize the different fleets, It is a wise decision, however if they want to start getting the planes by 2022 they will have to place to the order soon, actually I don't know how long is the line of airlines waiting for B787, A350 or B77X but I think we are talking about a couple of years at least.
holzmann wrote:Will be part of a larger LH Group order to address future fleet needs at LH, LX, OS, etc. I predict a split order of B789/J and A359/K, about 15-20 each for all three airlines.
Why to split the order?? I think getting same plane in different sizes and configurations is better option, specially if we are talking about only 40-50 planes.
RainerBoeing777 wrote:I do not think Singapore and Hong Kong are the main financial centers of Asia the demand of business passengers in very large SQ flies with the A380 and CX restart its operations in 2015 once with the B77W, tourism in Thailand is very large and high demand Thai always operate large aircraft on this route it was time for Swiss to increase capacity, LAX and SFO are routes of equal high demand even as UA started a seasonal flight SFO-ZRH, the B77W if key to Swiss, the economy in China, Japan and India is growing and growing stronger, and routes such as Shanghai, Tokyo, Boston and Delhi if they need the capacity of the B77W, do not rule out the A350 in the future is essential for routes such as Beijing, Johannesburg, New York, Miami, Mumbai, Dubai and open new routes
For that routes where they want high capacity the A350-1000 is almost the same size of the B77W and they can always swap between 900 and 1000 if seasonal changes are required. I just said that having A350 is great because with 1 aircraft type they can replace the 3 types they currently operate.
Heavierthanair wrote:In addition to replacing the A343 Swiss has an issue with two separate pilot groups with substantially different pay scales. The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries. The two pilot groups do not even talk to each other if they are staying at the same outstation. Presumably that issue has to be resolved before new long range aircraft are added to the fleet.
I did not know that one, it's a good story but maybe the management is happy to have the pilot divided, divide and conquer, you never know.
Why split an order? Simple, LH Tecnic receives great prices on drawings and parts as part of any order. It is why they bought both CEO engines and both NEO engines.
Lightsaber
migair54 wrote:I think we will see Swiss ordering the A350 sooner than later, with 30 or more A350 they can replace the A330, A340 and in the future B77W.
I don't think they will order more B77W or B77X because for some roues is OK but I think it is way too big for many routes they currently have, however the mix of A359 and A351 could do all the job with one fleet and making things easy. Swiss already place orders for A32Neo so getting the A350 will be a good choice.
SQ789 wrote:migair54 wrote:I think we will see Swiss ordering the A350 sooner than later, with 30 or more A350 they can replace the A330, A340 and in the future B77W.
I don't think they will order more B77W or B77X because for some roues is OK but I think it is way too big for many routes they currently have, however the mix of A359 and A351 could do all the job with one fleet and making things easy. Swiss already place orders for A32Neo so getting the A350 will be a good choice.
Think they soon may ordered up to 50 new longhaul aircraft which would replace their A330, A340 ASAP. Maybe an A350 HGW is a good suggestion. But not confirmed yet.
Heavierthanair wrote:G'day
In addition to replacing the A343 Swiss has an issue with two separate pilot groups with substantially different pay scales. The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries. The two pilot groups do not even talk to each other if they are staying at the same outstation. Presumably that issue has to be resolved before new long range aircraft are added to the fleet.
Cheers
Peter
mjoelnir wrote:SQ789 wrote:migair54 wrote:I think we will see Swiss ordering the A350 sooner than later, with 30 or more A350 they can replace the A330, A340 and in the future B77W.
I don't think they will order more B77W or B77X because for some roues is OK but I think it is way too big for many routes they currently have, however the mix of A359 and A351 could do all the job with one fleet and making things easy. Swiss already place orders for A32Neo so getting the A350 will be a good choice.
Think they soon may ordered up to 50 new longhaul aircraft which would replace their A330, A340 ASAP. Maybe an A350 HGW is a good suggestion. But not confirmed yet.
I do not expect the Lufthansa group to retire rather young frames without a good reason. I expect Swiss to use all their current wide bodies quite a while longer.
s.p.a.s. wrote:Or maybe they can surprise everybody else and go the 787-9 path...
glen wrote:Heavierthanair wrote:G'day
In addition to replacing the A343 Swiss has an issue with two separate pilot groups with substantially different pay scales. The B77W's are flown by pilots that operated short haul aircraft before transitioning to the B77W whereas the A333 and A343 pilots are the intercontinental pilot group that went through a traditional career and get paid much higher salaries. The two pilot groups do not even talk to each other if they are staying at the same outstation. Presumably that issue has to be resolved before new long range aircraft are added to the fleet.
Cheers
Peter
That's a thing of the past. Both pilot groups are in one union since more than a year and from April 1st on there is one single contract for all pilots within Swiss with only minor differences left in salary between the former two groups. And the fleet you are flying on does not depend anymore on the group you have been in the older days.
Ronaldo747 wrote:Ordering B77Ws, an entirely new type for Swiss, as an interim solution for switching back to Airbus only a couple of years later would be nonsense. Or other way round, if they would plan with the A350, it would have been nonsense to order the B77W.
cougar15 wrote:How about a few readily available and relatively cheap used 77W to add to the fleet, now they have experience with the type- Happened with the A340, I actually expect them to head down that road!
PM wrote:Purely from a passenger point of view, a switch from an A340 to a 777 is a retrograde step and I hope they don't do it.
NYCVIE wrote:mjoelnir wrote:SQ789 wrote:Think they soon may ordered up to 50 new longhaul aircraft which would replace their A330, A340 ASAP. Maybe an A350 HGW is a good suggestion. But not confirmed yet.
I do not expect the Lufthansa group to retire rather young frames without a good reason. I expect Swiss to use all their current wide bodies quite a while longer.
I agree, especially when seeing how old OS widebody fleet is. Not that I'm saying LX will keep theirs for as long as OS but they certainly won't be retiring the 330s and 340s in the near future.
LX015 wrote:PM wrote:Purely from a passenger point of view, a switch from an A340 to a 777 is a retrograde step and I hope they don't do it.
Sorry, but you’re a couple years too late on this one. They’ve already replaced a number if their A340s with 77Ws.
LAX772LR wrote:Ronaldo747 wrote:Ordering B77Ws, an entirely new type for Swiss, as an interim solution for switching back to Airbus only a couple of years later would be nonsense. Or other way round, if they would plan with the A350, it would have been nonsense to order the B77W.
There is no airline on the planet that actually orders planes with such a mentality.
"Oh, I switched to Boeing, so I guess I have to stay with them now...."
No, just no. That's how AvGeeks think. Not airlines.
DUSZRH wrote:The (remaining) 343 are newly refurbished and will not be replaced any time soon. There will be a group-wide order for 2022-2026 for all of LH Group 343, 772(OS), maybe the oldest 333 and EW's 332 (they are leased).
iseeyyc wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between "Swiss International Air Lines" and "Swiss Global Air Lines"? Is this some corporate trick to reduce staff pay?
Etheereal wrote:LAX772LR wrote:Ronaldo747 wrote:Ordering B77Ws, an entirely new type for Swiss, as an interim solution for switching back to Airbus only a couple of years later would be nonsense. Or other way round, if they would plan with the A350, it would have been nonsense to order the B77W.
There is no airline on the planet that actually orders planes with such a mentality.
"Oh, I switched to Boeing, so I guess I have to stay with them now...."
No, just no. That's how AvGeeks think. Not airlines.
What about training costs, cert. rating and so?
aemoreira1981 wrote:The A330 can operate to ORD. That said, I see a top-up order at LH going to LX, to replace both the A343s and B77Ws (the B77Ws would move to LH to retire the B744s). That said, there is a question of what replaces the A343s at Edelweiss.
NeBaNi wrote:Etheereal wrote:LAX772LR wrote:There is no airline on the planet that actually orders planes with such a mentality.
"Oh, I switched to Boeing, so I guess I have to stay with them now...."
No, just no. That's how AvGeeks think. Not airlines.
What about training costs, cert. rating and so?
Didn't seem to be an issue when switching to Boeing, why would it be an issue when switching back?
globetrotter94 wrote:iseeyyc wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between "Swiss International Air Lines" and "Swiss Global Air Lines"? Is this some corporate trick to reduce staff pay?
Yep. Fun fact: "Swiss Global Air Lines" started off as "Swiss European Airlines"--so the regional arm of "Swiss International Air Lines". Its gone from flying Avro RJ100s to the current mix of CS100 and 77W.
columba wrote:787-9 makes most sense for Swiss as they share a common type rating with the 777W. LX is a relatively small airline and they need to have as much commonality as possible.
777W (maybe 777-9 later)
787-9
A320NEO and A321NEO
CSERIES
columba wrote:787-9 makes most sense for Swiss as they share a common type rating with the 777W. LX is a relatively small airline and they need to have as much commonality as possible.
777W (maybe 777-9 later)
787-9
A320NEO and A321NEO
CSERIES
eamondzhang wrote:The same could be said for A350 which has the commonality with A320neo series, especially if 77W is not staying for too long as suggested.
Michael