ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:48 am

Congrats to the Qantas team.

Now we just need you doing SYD-Europe non stop and people in Wellington can cut the flights down to one stop. ;)
 
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EK413
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:52 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
Many of our grumpy ol’ resident anetters have nothing good to say about this flight or momentous day in aviation history. They’re too busy whining about how they couldn’t do this and how they couldn’t do that. Enforcing restriction upon restriction on themselves, “I can’t do this, I can’t do that” until no spontaneity or fun exists.

The majority of people do prefer nonstop, yet some of you seem so defensive and almost angry
about this flight. It’s bizarre and counterintuitive, considering enthusiasts of any type are typically the most supportive of crazy ideas. In the coming decades ULH will be routine and then you guys can start complaining about the next frontline tier, but until then, let Qantas and it’s supporters have their day.

So while the majority of us choose the nonstop, you’ll be stuck in some crowded airport hell with kids screaming for hours and we’ll be sitting at the pub in London talking about the day. So, good luck with that gents.


Agreed, I’ll join you at the pub for a few beers whilst the grumpy “it will fail” travellers are stuck going through security check points, dealing with a delayed flight due to a passenger failing turn up to their gate on time as result offloaded, which then potentially causes mechanical issues, crew running out of hours & refusing to extend which in turn nightstops.

cougar15 wrote:
redroo wrote:
Thanks for all the updates qf789. Greatly appreciate the effort you’ve gone to.


I´ll second that, many thanks for all the effort & background info/sources!!!


3 cheers for qf789 :champagne:

Excellent work! Look forward to the partying kicking off for the inaugural QF10 LHR-PER ;)

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TN486
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:58 am

^^qf789, as all the superlatives have been voiced, can I just say "hear hear". Mate, well done.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:01 am

EK413, now that you mention QF10 here's the flight plan, estimated flying time 16hours and 7 minutes, distance 7977nm

Image

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/Keg767/status/977833224486371328
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AndyW35
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:05 am

This has to be the one of the biggest marketing pull offs ever for a single flight in the last few years. Even BBC have it on front page.

Whether it grows or withers, they have got a lot of column inches. Or should I say likes, in this day and age:?
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:06 am

Today's QF9 has just departed PER, runway 3, to follow refer to link below

https://www.flightradar24.com/QFA9/10d2de34
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waoz1
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:11 am

Nine Perth reporting a bunch of press on return flight

Apparently quiet a few morning shows in the Uk will be having people flying over and reporting live back from Perth to show off the flight. As the timings into Perth are the same time for early morning tv.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:17 am

TC957 wrote:
777PHX wrote:
inflightVideo wrote:
I'm on the inaugural flight from London to Perth, so you'll be able to fly the entire route virtually from the comfort of your home once I've uploaded a 17 hour video to YouTube of course :D

Big Jet TV are also filming the departure from LHR live, and I'll be live at points throughout the flight :)


I'd rather watch paint dry.

Some aviation enthusiast you are !


Sure. The ability to nearly reach every point of the earth with one flight is impressive. (Time-wise, we already had planes doing more than 10 hours of flight in World War I, for example the Zeppelin-Staaken planes.)

I thought aviation enthusiasts loved *landings* and *take-offs*. And they liked to visit *airports*. I would rather love 3-6 hours segments with a one-hour stop in between, to walk around, get some fresh air, and chat to somebody sitting on real chairs with a real table between us.


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waoz1
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:18 am

Qf10 is showing 15 hours 45 min on return flight

Would that be right? Shows arrival an hour earlier
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:21 am

waoz1 wrote:
Qf10 is showing 15 hours 45 min on return flight

Would that be right? Shows arrival an hour earlier


No FR24 is a bit slow in updating changes in Northern Summer times, also remember PER is now 7 hours in front not 8
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waoz1
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:22 am

qf789 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Qf10 is showing 15 hours 45 min on return flight

Would that be right? Shows arrival an hour earlier


No FR24 is a bit slow in updating changes in Northern Summer times, also remember PER is now 7 hours in front not 8


Thats what i thought
Wasnt sure.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:25 am

This seems to be really important to Australians for some reason , so congratulations are due to everyone involved and I hope it’s a great success

I turned on the bbc for some coverage but there seems to be a story about corrupt sports people doing something in Crickett (??) or something instead
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:32 am

#2 QF9 in the air!!
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:41 am

qf789 wrote:
here's the flight plan

What app is that mate?

flyingturtle wrote:
Sure. The ability to nearly reach every point of the earth with one flight is impressive. (Time-wise, we already had planes doing more than 10 hours of flight in World War I, for example the Zeppelin-Staaken planes.)

I thought aviation enthusiasts loved *landings* and *take-offs*. And they liked to visit *airports*. I would rather love 3-6 hours segments with a one-hour stop in between, to walk around, get some fresh air, and chat to somebody sitting on real chairs with a real table between us.


This is always going to be a divisive point for enthusiasts and travellers as a whole, indeed, and as you point out the actual time aloft is nothing new - I think it was upthread here that I mentioned the record for longest-time-aloft for a commercial sector is was the 32-odd hours set by a Catalina on the original Double Sunrise sun, and if you exclude that that for having a dubious claim to being commercial you still have BER-NYC in 24-odd hours with an Fw 200 and several similar flights with Constellations and the like.

For me I too would also probably prefer multiple stops to this flight in Y but that's because I don't sleep well onboard, don't have a particularly excellent capacity for boredom, and do like to pad my logbook, which is why my most recent MEL-LHR routing was:
MEL-SYD QF A332 Y
SYD-HKG QF B744ER Y
HKG-SVO SU B773ER W
SVO-LHR SU A333 Y
and then LHR-GLA by rail.

But if I were to be making this trip because I wanted be get from the UK to Australia or v.v. with the least possible hassle then this new QF routing would be a strong contender, and all the more so if I was travelling in W or J.

So regardless of whether or not you'll ever see me aboard one of these flights, it is a tremendous achievement for aviation as a technical science and for the passenger it is another option and options mean improved competition and more choices - all of which are wins, and that's why the negativity is disappointing.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:42 am

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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:46 am

XAM2175 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
here's the flight plan

What app is that mate?



I have no idea, the twitter link provided is the one who posted the flight plan
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waoz1
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:50 am

I wouldnt take too much from Sun article
A good “i married an alien” story will replace it tomorrow

Be interesting to see CNN report they had their man on the flight
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:02 pm

waoz1 wrote:
I wouldnt take too much from Sun article
A good “i married an alien” story will replace it tomorrow

Be interesting to see CNN report they had their man on the flight


You mean Richard Quest, his review is in the AFR, the one I posted above, his review is very good
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:07 pm

The report from the Sun is typical of that paper, nothing unusual. Richards was a good read. Hopefully we will see som in the TR section here on ANet
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:09 pm

Some pictures below off QF9 arrival at LHR

Also from Australian Aviation article

229 passengers and crew onboard
253.5 tonnes takeoff weight (half a tonne below MTOW)
100.6 tonnes of fuel onboard

Qantas is also taking a conservative approach for the first 2 weeks and blocking 20 seats on each flight on PER-LHR to avoid a tech diversion

For the first two weeks of operations, Qantas is taking a conservative approach to the 787-9’s payload by “blocking off” (ie not selling) up to 20 passenger seats to give the aircraft a comfortable margin to ensure it can reach London without a tech stop diversion (prevailing winds mean the London-Perth sector faces fewer operational restrictions).


http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... in-london/

Image

Image

Image
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ltbewr
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:12 pm

I would note from the fight path info is that about 2/3's of the flight is over land with plenty of diversion airports so it seems very doable with modern 2 engine aircraft with a sufficient load.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:29 pm

QF10 LHR-PER on the move, currently taxiing to runway 9R
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:35 pm

QF10 is on the roll
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:37 pm

QF10 has departed LHR, to track follow

https://www.flightradar24.com/QFA10/10d30d63
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QF744ER
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:53 pm

qf789 wrote:
cougar15 wrote:
redroo wrote:
Thanks for all the updates qf789. Greatly appreciate the effort you’ve gone to.


I´ll second that, many thanks for all the effort & background info/sources!!!



QF744ER wrote:
Awesome work on this thread with your contributions qf789.


Thanks for the comments guys, its appreciated. Believe it or not I haven't uploaded my photos off my camera yet. As you are all aware this was a significant day in Australian Aviation of which the Australian a.netters have discussed in depth for the good part of 2 years now. It was also important for me personally, having lived in PER my whole life PER-LHR is the biggest thing we have seen for sometime. As the other Perth based a.netters can attribute to this service has got the whole city talking, the economic contribution to the WA economy is estimated to be around $770 million over than next 10 years, that's massive. I also wanted to put out as much information out so the whole a.net community had the chance to appreciate the work that has been put into getting the service running and celebrate this massive achievement. Having attended the hangar event last year when the first 789 arrived of which I attended as a guest, there was a vibe in that hangar that sent chills down my spine and that was the level of enthusiasm and dedication from all those working for QF and how keen they were of working their backsides off to get PER-LHR off the grown. So credit to all the staff at QF, a job well done.

Does anyone know how the aircraft rotations are going to work, is it going to be a continuous 4 day cycle for the B789 flying MEL-PER-LHR-PER-MEL-LAX-MEL?

Are 2 Dreamliners on the ground anywhere at the same time where they swapped over and the same aircraft can operate back to back say QF9's?

Along the lines of:

Day 1 -ZND
Day 2 -ZNA
Day 3 -ZNB or C
Day 4 -ZNB or C
Day 1 -ZND
Day 2 -ZNA......And so on in a repeating pattern.


It wont work exactly like that. QF95 MEL-LAX doesn't operate on Tuesdays while QF96 doesn't operate on Mondays. So ZND will operate Monday's QF95 and then be on the ground at LAX for just over 24 hours, this is the planned maintenance put into the cycle for the 4 789's. So ZND will not depart LAX until Tuesday so that wont operate the next PER-LHR until Thursday. So when today's service operated by ZNA returns to MEL on Tuesday that will overnight in MEL at operate another LHR rotation on Wednesday.

The rotation to LHR will look like (note ZNB will operate todays QF95 and QF96 which is currently in the air is being operated by ZNC)

24 March ZND
25 March ZNA
26 March ZNC
27 March ZNB
28 March ZNA
29 March ZND
30 March ZNC
31 March ZNB
1 April ZNA
2 April ZND
3 April ZNC
4 April ZNA
5 April ZNB
6 April ZND

So in summary the aircraft that does MEL-PER-LHR on a Saturday will be the one that ends in maintenance. The Sunday frame does MEL-PER-LHR-PER-MEL-PER-LHR-PER-MEL before going back to LAX


Much appreciated again qf789, I'm outta PER on QF9 17/4 and then flying back home to PER on QF10 on the 22/4 ex LHR, was hoping I didn't get the same Dreamliner both ways, so after reading your detailed response I'm now hopeful of scoring different frames.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:34 pm

andymartin wrote:
How is this progress? 17 hours in an economy seat sounds like hell on earth!


As quite a few of us here have said, us Aussies are used to long haul travel, and it's usually the only option if we want to go to the US. Melbourne-LAX is 14 hours for example.

Last year, I flew home from Cancun to Melbourne (check my last trip report). CUN-IAH was 3 hours, then IAH-AKL (15 hours), and AKL-MEL (another 3.5 hours). All up around 24 hours travel all up. Admittedly the CUN-IAH leg was done in Business, and I had an empty seat next to me for the IAH-AKL leg, on which I managed to get 5 hours or so sleep. Worst part of the trip was waiting around 1.5 hours in the CPB line at IAH. There was a Turkish Airlines flight that had go in just before us, and those pax seemed to be under more 'scrutiny'... I actually felt pretty good when I got into MEL mid-morning, considering I had spent basically a full 24 hours in transit, well I might have crashed on the couch for a couple of hours in the afternoon after I got home!

The point is, as has been explained previously, this flight is being heavily marketed towards Australians wanting a quick, no fuss flight straight to London, especially those who normally fly up the front. The economy pax are the cherry on top. If you're used to 14 hour flights, then another couple of hours flying time to avoid a stopover isn't such a big deal.
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:36 pm

Galwayman wrote:
This seems to be really important to Australians for some reason , so congratulations are due to everyone involved and I hope it’s a great success

I turned on the bbc for some coverage but there seems to be a story about corrupt sports people doing something in Crickett (??) or something instead



Australia - the tyranny of distance.

It’s an amazing country but it’s a long way to get anywhere either within the country or outside the country. Shaving a few hours off will put a smile on any skippys face.

There’s historical significance as well.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:36 pm

And the return flight has just departed out of LHR.
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:44 pm

qf789 thanx for all the background info! I don.t work in the industry but for a airplane enthousiast like me this is easy to keep an eye on all the info.
 
waoz1
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:22 pm

Well after all that will take me a while to recover......... then we can start it all over again when they announce SYD-PER-CDG in six months time.

Can argue about load factors, and why you would want to go via Perth all over again! :)
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:38 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
What app is that mate?


Jeppesen Flight Deck Pro. Standard issue for Qantas flight crew.

-CXfirst
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:49 pm

Was in LHR about 12 ish and missed the departure/even seeing it.

I thought I would luck in but my flight arrived on the wrong side of T3 sadly.
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:51 pm

Thanks!
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:01 pm

I posted on a different thread about Singapore's 359ULR SIN-NYC flight and questioned why that flight will feature an all business class cabin. People on the thread said:
danj555 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
The aircraft's ZFW had to be lowered to accommodate the amount of fuel needed for the trek to NYC; meaning that SQ couldn't fill it to full cabin capacity even if they wanted to, if fueled to go those distances.

Speaking of distances: while NYC is 9500mi away by Great Circle, that does not take into account the actual routing the aircraft will use, plus winds, plus minimum go-around/hold/diversion contingency, etc. The ESAD required for the flight is closer to 11,000mi effective range-- which the aircraft just happens to top out around. Imagine that. ;)


It's weird cause when I look at 789's range (14,150km), then also look at the PER - LHR flight distance of 14,500km. How is it possible that the 789 can fly both legs which are longer than the manufacturer's max range. It was long prophesied on airliners that planes would have trouble going eastward I believe.

It's still weird to me that Singapore Air's a359ULRs must be weight restricted when they have 2000m more range than what the route demands.

Is the 789 just that much better of a plane at long range? It seems like the 359ULR is carrying fuel uselessly.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:01 pm

Just for fun, here are the flying times for QF9 for MEL-LHR over the last two days:

- 23 March 2018 MEL-DXB-LHR A380 21hrs 09min.
- 24 March 2018 MEL-PER-LHR B789 20hrs 33min.

Great way to go QANTAS !!!
Last edited by factsonly on Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:04 pm

redroo wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
This seems to be really important to Australians for some reason , so congratulations are due to everyone involved and I hope it’s a great success

I turned on the bbc for some coverage but there seems to be a story about corrupt sports people doing something in Crickett (??) or something instead



Australia - the tyranny of distance.

It’s an amazing country but it’s a long way to get anywhere either within the country or outside the country. Shaving a few hours off will put a smile on any skippys face.

There’s historical significance as well.


A surprising number of people don't know this, but Australia is very comparable to the size of the US lower 48. NSW is significantly larger than Texas and is the 2nd smallest state on the mainland. And the entire country has less than 30 million people....
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:16 pm

I've just got back from Heathrow. I filmed QF10 depart and will upload to YouTube in the next couple of hours and post the link, assuming I'm allowed?

It was great seeing VH-ZND in person, great livery!
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:19 pm

Some photos from Today's departure from LHR taken by local spotters:

ImageVH-ZND - LHR by Jan, on Flickr

ImageVH-ZND QANTAS 787-9 by john smitherman-http://canaviaaviationphotography., on Flickr
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:32 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Thanks for the interesting thread - it has brought up memories as I was a passenger on the second ever EK DXB-PER flight back in 2002 (?) which was big thing back then.

So if, as has been mentioned on this thread, 60 per cent of the passengers are PER-bound/originating passengers and 40 per cent are transit passengers, the PER-LON market for QF is - as I would expect - not really massive - something like 150 pax daily. I have a couple of questions to better understand the economics of the route:

- Are most of the 40 per cent transit passengers connecting passengers from smallish W.A. markets for whom a transit via MEL or SYD adds considerably to their travel time?


The 40% is most likely from interstate. Passengers connecting on from intraWA such as Broome, Karratha, Port Hedland, Kalgoorlie, Exmouth would be a low number. Some of that 40% is also business that originates in MEL such as BHP/Rio Tinto business traffic which would stop in PER for business meetings than fly onto London. 150 passengers a day from PER is a good start. As the route matures that will increase. PER has the second highest British population in the country so the demand is definitely there. The PER-LHR markets is around 30% of all passengers travelling to Europe. The ME3 will soon have around 1600 seats a day, so that alone is 480 seats a day to LHR. Throw in SQ & CX along with other carriers such as MH, TG, CZ & GA I would expect the market is over 700 seats a day, there's no definite numbers available on PER-LHR so at this point in time its hard to put a firm number on it.

- How much more expensive is QF9's pricing compared to QR, EK and EY's one-stops from PER?


On a Y based fare, in August the difference is about $150. Most people who fly Qantas are not too worried about price, QF has always charged more and usually people fly QF for other reasons such as FF, safety, etc

- And how are QF's one-stops via PER priced compared to one-stops from MEL, SYD or BNE - do you pay a premium for going via PER instead of DXB? (if so, I have difficulties understanding how Paris could work as the local PER-PAR traffic must be much smaller than PER-LON so that a PER-PAR would have to rely on much more transit passengers).


Having a quick look on BNE-LHR flights, whether its via PER, SIN or DXB prices are similar, within a few dollars. When it comes to PER-CDG you need to look at the bigger picture. Along with PER-CDG at some point a PER-FRA flight will exist as well. Both these flights will begin/terminate, one in SYD and the other in BNE. When this happens MEL-PER-LHR, SYD-PER-CDG, BNE-PER-FRA will all be timed similarly so in actual fact the SYD flight will feed not only CDG, but FRA & LHR, the same applies for the flights from MEL & BNE. When it comes to places like CDG, PER will be used more as a transit point than the local market, its about using PER as a mini hub feeding the rest of Australia
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:38 pm

817Dreamliiner wrote:
Some photos from Today's departure from LHR taken by local spotters:

ImageVH-ZND - LHR by Jan, on Flickr

ImageVH-ZND QANTAS 787-9 by john smitherman-http://canaviaaviationphotography., on Flickr


Thanks for sharing, they look great. One thing I was looking forward to with this new flight was the pics such as this you get out of LHR, I personally think that ZND would like great in one of those clear blue skies that we see in some photos out of LHR.
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:42 pm

Here's a video of QF10 taking off from LHR

https://twitter.com/Qantas/status/977924125741256707
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:21 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
An767 wrote:
It will be interesting to hear passenger feed back on the flight, both good or bad.
Well done QF at least one National team did not dissapoint today. Although this would have been harder to cheat on :(
An767


Sounds awful, and that food looks disgusting. I'm sure alot of lipstick is going to be painted on that Y experience.
https://thewest.com.au/travel/perth-lon ... b88785233z


Did you read the article? Maybe you missed the bits where she says that the food tasted pretty decent and that the flight was over quicker than she was expecting.

If you’ve got nothing useful to add then don’t bother posting.
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:33 pm

qf789 wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
Thanks for the interesting thread - it has brought up memories as I was a passenger on the second ever EK DXB-PER flight back in 2002 (?) which was big thing back then.

So if, as has been mentioned on this thread, 60 per cent of the passengers are PER-bound/originating passengers and 40 per cent are transit passengers, the PER-LON market for QF is - as I would expect - not really massive - something like 150 pax daily. I have a couple of questions to better understand the economics of the route:

- Are most of the 40 per cent transit passengers connecting passengers from smallish W.A. markets for whom a transit via MEL or SYD adds considerably to their travel time?


The 40% is most likely from interstate. Passengers connecting on from intraWA such as Broome, Karratha, Port Hedland, Kalgoorlie, Exmouth would be a low number. Some of that 40% is also business that originates in MEL such as BHP/Rio Tinto business traffic which would stop in PER for business meetings than fly onto London. 150 passengers a day from PER is a good start. As the route matures that will increase. PER has the second highest British population in the country so the demand is definitely there. The PER-LHR markets is around 30% of all passengers travelling to Europe. The ME3 will soon have around 1600 seats a day, so that alone is 480 seats a day to LHR. Throw in SQ & CX along with other carriers such as MH, TG, CZ & GA I would expect the market is over 700 seats a day, there's no definite numbers available on PER-LHR so at this point in time its hard to put a firm number on it.

- How much more expensive is QF9's pricing compared to QR, EK and EY's one-stops from PER?


On a Y based fare, in August the difference is about $150. Most people who fly Qantas are not too worried about price, QF has always charged more and usually people fly QF for other reasons such as FF, safety, etc

- And how are QF's one-stops via PER priced compared to one-stops from MEL, SYD or BNE - do you pay a premium for going via PER instead of DXB? (if so, I have difficulties understanding how Paris could work as the local PER-PAR traffic must be much smaller than PER-LON so that a PER-PAR would have to rely on much more transit passengers).


Having a quick look on BNE-LHR flights, whether its via PER, SIN or DXB prices are similar, within a few dollars. When it comes to PER-CDG you need to look at the bigger picture. Along with PER-CDG at some point a PER-FRA flight will exist as well. Both these flights will begin/terminate, one in SYD and the other in BNE. When this happens MEL-PER-LHR, SYD-PER-CDG, BNE-PER-FRA will all be timed similarly so in actual fact the SYD flight will feed not only CDG, but FRA & LHR, the same applies for the flights from MEL & BNE. When it comes to places like CDG, PER will be used more as a transit point than the local market, its about using PER as a mini hub feeding the rest of Australia


To add, and this is very much looking from an a East Coast perspective, the gulf between Qantas and their competitors is relatively modest ($100-200) in Economy but increases exponentially the further forward in the aircraft.

So far when I have been looking at QF9/QF10 I have never seen I or T inventory available (that is ‘sale’ Business or Premium Economy), and therefore this flight has priced significantly more expensive (as in $1000ish more) in Business than QF1/2 or the Emirates codeshares. That’s when QF are already several thousand dollars more than EY and QR even with I fare!

I have several clients who have started booking LHR-PER-CBR in Business as it is the only one-stop option with Qantas into Canberra. For every date I have priced this route it has been rediculously expensive, pretty much the most expensive way of getting from London to Canberra, but the Qantas loyalists will lap it up. Again this is in Business Class.

This route is going to do just fine in the pointy end, the Economy passengers are there to make up the numbers.
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:00 pm

Here's my video of the QF10 departing LHR, I hope I am allowed to post it! Sorry for the shakiness.

https://youtu.be/tV5wYLPXOYc
712 738 744 752 762 763 764 320 321 332 F70 Q400
BE BY DL MT PC V7 VS WA ZB 6Y
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:01 pm

Thanx for the video. Indeed the earth keeps on shrinking! I wonder what's next?
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:05 pm

redroo wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
This seems to be really important to Australians for some reason , so congratulations are due to everyone involved and I hope it’s a great success

I turned on the bbc for some coverage but there seems to be a story about corrupt sports people doing something in Crickett (??) or something instead



Australia - the tyranny of distance.

It’s an amazing country but it’s a long way to get anywhere either within the country or outside the country. Shaving a few hours off will put a smile on any skippys face.

There’s historical significance as well.



What tyranny of distance ? Indonesia is right beside Australia ...
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:14 pm

Virginblue4 wrote:
Here's my video of the QF10 departing LHR, I hope I am allowed to post it! Sorry for the shakiness.

https://youtu.be/tV5wYLPXOYc


Thanks for sharing. Your video is fine. We only jump and down when users use a.net as a platform to promote their own stuff. Here you have used it for the benefit of the thread, so there is no issue
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:22 pm

Galwayman wrote:
What tyranny of distance ? Indonesia is right beside Australia ...


And yet Indonesia is still a 6-7 hour flight away from the vast majority of Australians.
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:53 pm

Why not just order the 777 (or A350) and have a plane that can conveniently do this route with more passenger, cargo load and no need to take precautions with blocking off seats?
 
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Re: Inaugural QF MEL-PER-LHR this Saturday 24 March

Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:02 pm

danj555 wrote:
It's weird cause when I look at 789's range (14,150km), then also look at the PER - LHR flight distance of 14,500km. How is it possible that the 789 can fly both legs which are longer than the manufacturer's max range. It was long prophesied on airliners that planes would have trouble going eastward I believe.

Easy answer. Two parts.
But first things first: Quit looking at website advertised range-- it means nothing.

Boeing (and Airbus) just choose arbitrary numbers that they believe represent the "typical configuration" that most airlines will use for a given model, then they set their advertised range projections on the likely weight of such a configuration.

Obviously, if airlines choose to lower the configuration density, they get more range.
If they choose to raise it, they get less range. I'm sure you can understand that.

Second: you have to remember that range isn't static.
It can be affected by a multitude of factors, including temperature, density, elevation (not really a factor here) and of course: winds. If you want to get a better idea of what the aircraft is capable of, look at Boeing's range-payload charts and assumed "standard day" for most applications.

You also have to realize that aircraft still need to have fuel left over after the flight distance is complete, in order to complete go-arounds, holding-patterns, and diversions (if necessary) and then land with minimal reserves.

*********************************
Once you take those two factors into account, you can realize how airlines like QF and UA are doing what they're doing:
they're taking an already comparatively-lite 789, and blocking seats when necessary, in order to have a low enough cabin density (read that: "weight") in order to load the fuel necessary to get to where they're going, with required reserves in place.


danj555 wrote:
It's still weird to me that Singapore Air's a359ULRs must be weight restricted when they have 2000m more range than what the route demands.

You have it backwards: the aircraft has more range than the route demands BECAUSE it's restricted.

The A359ULR has the same MTOW that standard A359s will soon have: 280tonnes.

The A350 has *enormous* fuel tanks. The tanks can hold so much fuel, that if you actually fill them, you will not have enough available TOW leftover for you to fill the cabin with pax/bags, and you can forget cargo.

Because of that, standard A359s are systematically capped off in how much fuel they can load, so that airlines can fill up the cabin and carry cargo. Even then, the standard A359 still has exceedingly long range: it's currently doing SIN-SFO with no problem.

The "-ULR" modification takes the same fuel tank that all A350s have, and modifies the internal system such that the tank can be filled with more fuel. The penalty for doing that, is that you now have to short the ZFW of the aircraft, in order to stay under 280T. That means you can't carry as many pax.

So all that SQ has done, since it will likely be limited to 170ish pax based on the MZFW, is make a cabin that caters to that many people. They still have yet to officially reveal it though.


crimsonchin wrote:
Why not just order the 777 (or A350) and have a plane that can conveniently do this route with more passenger, cargo load and no need to take precautions with blocking off seats?

For a multitude of reasons, including the cost of incorporating additional aircraft into the fleet, that can't really do the job better. The only one that reliably could, would be the 77L, and it's quickly approaching being obsolete-generation technology.

Besides, realize what "blocking seats" actually is. The aircraft's performance capability remains the same regardless of how many seats you put into it (let's ignore for now the minor weight penalty of the seats themselves), but the second you start loading butts into those seats, the weight goes up exponentially.

QF could easily make a configuration that serves PER-LHR only, but all that would do is create a subfleet that operates nothing but those routes. What'd be the point of that?

By taking aircraft in standard configuration, and blocking seats where necessary: they can fly that aircraft to LHR one day, then fly it on a shorter route where they can max out the available seats. That allows them to rotate any 789 on and off of any route, which saves cost and increases revenue overall.

The only reason that SQ isn't doing the same with its A359ULR, is because the aircraft's can't tank enough fuel to make it to NYC if carrying a full cabin load. So they have to create a subfleet configuration in order to meet the low ZFW.

Having more premium seats for such a long flight, helps too.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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