Hey All,

I know this has been discussed a little on the Delta 2018 Network Thread, but I thought maybe it could use it's own thread since Texas Aviation is such a big topic of conversation.

It has been said time and time again right now Delta is pretty well covering most corners of the domestic US Market, however they are still pretty weak in Texas coverage. With AA, UA and WN having such strong holds in the market, it is understandable that it is hard for DL to get their fill. However, outside of AUS even DL's growth of SEA and BOS hasn't warranted in IAH/DFW seeing non-stop service. Furthermore, outside of ATL, a lot of the service into IAH/SAT/DFW is on 2 Class RJ's. With the C-Series coming on this year, the leaked memorandum regarding a DFW virtual pilot base and most likely desire DL has to strengthen this market, what predictions do you see for DL upguaging or adding some new routes to the Lone Star State?

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network. The lack of a DL hub or focus city in Texas is not as big of a hole as the lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP are.

DL does have seasonal nonstop service to HRL from MSP, but DL could add year-round daily nonstop service to HRL from its main ATL hub in order to provide easier access to HRL.

Every network has its weak points. Delta’s happens to be Texas/Oklahoma. American has the PN. United is weak in the South.

Well, they used to have a smaller base/hub at DFW, but then pulled out as American started to significantly grow their operations there. I've come across lots of people on here that think that AUS would be a good hub for Delta.

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network.

Why? Can you point to high PDEWs to those airports from any Delta hub?

MIflyer12 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network.

Why? Can you point to high PDEWs to those airports from any Delta hub?

The only possible way that Delta could fit these cities into their network is service to/from ATL. Actually, Delta recently pulled out of ATL service to/from Killeen/Fort Hood Airport (GRK), so IDK why service to ATL from AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP would turn out any better than GRK was...

MIflyer12 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network.

Why? Can you point to high PDEWs to those airports from any Delta hub?

How is the local market between a hub and a spoke relevant to a hole in their network? How many PDEWs are there between DEN-COS where UA has 8 flights per day?

afcjets wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network.

Why? Can you point to high PDEWs to those airports from any Delta hub?

How is the local market between a hub and a spoke relevant to a hole in their network? How many PDEWs are there between DEN-COS where UA has 8 flights per day?

It is relevant because there are better situated hubs in the region (DFW/IAH/DAL) that handle the bulk of the connecting traffic. So it becomes an issue of what is the demand to DL hubs (where a nonstop would be preferred), demand to DL only destinations (if there are in fact any), and demand from pax that would choose connecting over a distant DL hub versus a closer, more geographically favorable, one.

COS is right bear DEN so DEN is handling the majority of COS’s market through connecting flights. IAH/DFW/DAL do the same for the smaller Texas markets. ATL does the same for the smaller SE markets. That is why you see ~8 ATL-TLH flights a day for example, yet no IAH-TLH flight and only one or 2 DFW-TLH flights a day.

You do not have to cover every corner of the world to have an effective network. DL was losing money (ie why they exist) with the hub in DFW and made the decision to de-hub DFW. If they lost money with a hub in Texas, which I assume had multiple flights per day to other cities in Texas, why would they feel they need to cover all these cities in Texas more than they do now? They are a business, not a public service. They have to make a profit to continue. DL tried before and didn't make a profit, what is different now? I will concede there are less-profitable flights operated to enhance the appearance of the network, but those have to be few and far between. I think DL has run the numbers and don't see enough benefit (profit) and choose to use their aircraft elsewhere. Flying everywhere just for the sake of "flying everywhere" is a formula for disaster.

DL is restoring SLC-ELP.

I don't understand the obsesion with PDEWs to hubs from secondary and tertiary markets. In major markets the non stop market is a driver, but secondary markets are mostly connecting.

You are right, that a closer hub has an advantage in that it can provide more omnidirectional connections, but there are many cases of longer hub flights existing to serve connections. Like ELP-ATL, TYS-DEN, or PHL-BUD.

Polot wrote:

afcjets wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Why? Can you point to high PDEWs to those airports from any Delta hub?

How is the local market between a hub and a spoke relevant to a hole in their network? How many PDEWs are there between DEN-COS where UA has 8 flights per day?

It is relevant because there are better situated hubs in the region (DFW/IAH/DAL) that handle the bulk of the connecting traffic. So it becomes an issue of what is the demand to DL hubs (where a nonstop would be preferred), demand to DL only destinations (if there are in fact any), and demand from pax that would choose connecting over a distant DL hub versus a closer, more geographically favorable, one.

You are explaining why there is a hole in their network, I was responding to a post that questioned why that would be considered a hole in their network.

Also, unless it creates a more circuitous routing, I don't think people care how far they have to travel to a connecting hub. In fact if I were flying transcon from anywhere in the SE, I would much prefer to connect in DFW than ATL. Not only does it break up the trip, it would likely be faster.

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network. The lack of a DL hub or focus city in Texas is not as big of a hole as the lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP are.

DL does have seasonal nonstop service to HRL from MSP, but DL could add year-round daily nonstop service to HRL from its main ATL hub in order to provide easier access to HRL.

Have you ever been to any of those "huge holes" you listed? The only one that MIGHT make sense would be MAF with its large energy sector presence but I've got a sneaking suspicion there aren't a lot of people travelling to MAF from places where a connection through ATL would even make sense. Plus AA, WN and UA are pretty well entrenched in that market and DL might not see the need to set up shop. As for AMA, LBB and CRP, while I have enjoyed the time of spent in each of those cities, they aren't exactly booming metropolises nor do they have any major attractions drawing huge swaths of visitors.

How many high-value customers are flying from those cities? As mentioned above, smaller Texas markets don’t fit very well with DL’s route network. No matter what hub you choose (ATL, SLC, or MSP, with ATL being most likely), there would be a huge amount of backtracking to many parts of the country. DL would need to have a hub somewhere in TX or OK to make those markets work, and while we can speculate all day about the future, one does not currently exist.

I think the CSeries will be a perfect opportunity to do this. I bet if they still had more 717s to play with they would be an even better fit than the CSeries for AUS/DFW/IAH.

Man I miss Delta in Dallas

They also flew to MFE a while back from both ATL and LAX, but are long gone, CRP also had ATL and DFW n/s, also gone.

FA9295 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network.

Why? Can you point to high PDEWs to those airports from any Delta hub?

The only possible way that Delta could fit these cities into their network is service to/from ATL. Actually, Delta recently pulled out of ATL service to/from Killeen/Fort Hood Airport (GRK), so IDK why service to ATL from AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP would turn out any better than GRK was...

Delta has corporate contracts and a frequent flyer base in its hub and focus city markets. There are also many business travelers based in DL hub or focus city markets who prefer to fly on DL over AA, WN, or UA, and some of these business travelers have elite status on DL but do not have elite status on AA or WN.

Even though DL has hubs at ATL, LAX, LGA, and JFK, the situation is somewhat different in the ATL, LAX, and NYC markets for the following reasons:

• WN has multiple daily nonstops to DAL and HOU from ATL, LAX, and LGA
• AA also has hubs at LAX, LGA, and JFK
• WN also has focus cities at ATL and LAX
• WN can connect passengers to Texas destinations not served by DL from ATL, LAX, and LGA through DAL and HOU
• WN can additionally connect passengers from LAX to West Texas destinations not served by DL through LAS

While connections can easily be made from ATL to the smaller Texas markets not served by DL on AA, UA, or WN through Dallas or Houston, there are many travelers based in the Atlanta area who are loyal to DL with ATL being the home base for DL.

WN, UA and AA get actual O&D traffic from Texas secondary cities to their hubs in Texas in addition to connecting traffic. Only way DL ever serves these is if they have a hub in Texas.

FA9295 wrote:

Well, they used to have a smaller base/hub at DFW, but then pulled out as American started to significantly grow their operations there. I've come across lots of people on here that think that AUS would be a good hub for Delta.

This reads as though Delta was at one time a bit player in Dallas when in actuality their corporate roots take them back to Dallas and they operated a large hub at DFW with 200 plus flights. I would also argue that Delta's route map hole is more significant comparred to AA's hole in the Pacific Northwest. I'd rather be small in the Northwest than a small player in the huge Texas market.

Although hindsight is 20/20, perhaps Delta should have stuck with DFW considering the massive market it is today. Austin couldn't sustain a large hub ops that DL would need and Dallas and Houston are taken.

The DFW hub was drawn down because it was too small to compete with AA and DL was losing money there. It was great for connections to other Texas cities and for traveling west on DL from points between Texas and Atlanta (like MSY).

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network. The lack of a DL hub or focus city in Texas is not as big of a hole as the lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP are.

This is some embellishment, those cities are not major, most having less than a quarter million people within city limits, and a vast majority of their service is on RJs to DFW or IAH.

The Airlines with holes in their networks are AS and B6, DL's network gap is a drop in the bucket compared to those two.

B6 until recently didn't even fly to ATL or MSP, and still doesn't fly to countless mid-sized metros(~2 million) within the US.
AS doesn't fly at all to Ohio, has holes in its SFO network, and its PDX/SEA networks have room to grow

Sure you can find holes in the networks of AA, DL, and UA, but that doesn't mean AA needs to open up a hub in the Northwest, DL in Texas, and UA in the Southeast. And all have said unequivocally countless times recently that they do not want to open up more hubs.

FA9295 wrote:

Although hindsight is 20/20, perhaps Delta should have stuck with DFW considering the massive market it is today.

DFW was DL's worst performing hub, and is even more competitive today. I don't think DL is sweating their decision too much....

OKCDCA wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network. The lack of a DL hub or focus city in Texas is not as big of a hole as the lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP are.

DL does have seasonal nonstop service to HRL from MSP, but DL could add year-round daily nonstop service to HRL from its main ATL hub in order to provide easier access to HRL.

Have you ever been to any of those "huge holes" you listed? The only one that MIGHT make sense would be MAF with its large energy sector presence but I've got a sneaking suspicion there aren't a lot of people travelling to MAF from places where a connection through ATL would even make sense. Plus AA, WN and UA are pretty well entrenched in that market and DL might not see the need to set up shop. As for AMA, LBB and CRP, while I have enjoyed the time of spent in each of those cities, they aren't exactly booming metropolises nor do they have any major attractions drawing huge swaths of visitors.

Although there aren't huge daily OD numbers for HRL/ATL, the Rio Grande Valley does have decent daily passenger traffic to east coast destinations like NYC, WAS, CHI, and DTW (maquila business), not too mention strong seasonal increases to ORL. We are talking passengers in the hundreds that are being split up by three small regional airports between WN, AA, and UN. DL could very well offer two dailies to HRL (center of the region of 1.2 million people) from ATL to try and stake a piece of this fast growing region. This is from the DOT's Consumer Airfare Report, considering enplaning and deplaning numbers are roughly equal. I don't know of any international numbers, but the region is also somewhat limited in options to Europe. DL would give them access to hubs in Paris and Amsterdam. If anything, possibly cargo could make the flights lucrative especially to DTW.

southbound35 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network. The lack of a DL hub or focus city in Texas is not as big of a hole as the lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP are.

DL does have seasonal nonstop service to HRL from MSP, but DL could add year-round daily nonstop service to HRL from its main ATL hub in order to provide easier access to HRL.

Come on, lack of service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is not a 'huge hole'.

Agreed. None of these are major cities.

Jeremy

jplatts wrote:

The lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is a huge hole in the DL network. The lack of a DL hub or focus city in Texas is not as big of a hole as the lack of DL service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP are.

DL does have seasonal nonstop service to HRL from MSP, but DL could add year-round daily nonstop service to HRL from its main ATL hub in order to provide easier access to HRL.

Come on, lack of service to AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP is not a 'huge hole'.

thewizbizman wrote:

Man I miss Delta in Dallas

Same here. I hope DFW is fortunate enough to get DL back here. AA could really use the pressure, but it seems like the legacies have some kind of truce as long as the city is not LA or NYC. AA's honeypot serving Mexico would be something that should interest DL given the ownership stake they have with AM.

The smaller city Texas market is really owned by AA and WN. UA has drawn down their intra-Texas flyng since the merger with CO. There is UA service to MAF, LBB, AMR and CRP, but it's usually just a few times a day to work with their connecting banks at IAH. AA, through their American Eagle subsidiaries does a powerhouse business flying folks to and from secondary Texas markets through DFW. No, AUS would not make a good hub. Mainly due to lack of gate space. Connecting AMA, MAF, and LBB to SLC could make sense in order to facilitate westward connections. UA probably has this market to themselves with DEN connections.

Does Delta really need a Texas hub?

What purpose would that serve?

For east-west connecting traffic, doesn't SLC, MSP, DTW and even ATL do the job quite well already?

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

The smaller city Texas market is really owned by AA and WN. UA has drawn down their intra-Texas flyng since the merger with CO. There is UA service to MAF, LBB, AMR and CRP, but it's usually just a few times a day to work with their connecting banks at IAH. AA, through their American Eagle subsidiaries does a powerhouse business flying folks to and from secondary Texas markets through DFW. No, AUS would not make a good hub. Mainly due to lack of gate space. Connecting AMA, MAF, and LBB to SLC could make sense in order to facilitate westward connections. UA probably has this market to themselves with DEN connections.

AA does also serve PHX from LBB (and I think MAF?) a few times per day. Also WN flys to LAS from LBB as well.

My personal example is, I’d consider switching my preferred airline to Delta from AA but I need to travel to the Texas Panhandle several times per year to visit family. So I’d have to split my preferred airline choice or consolidate on AA (or UA or WN).
If Delta did add service to the Panhandle, they could start with LBB as it serves the largest city of the three (LBB/AMA/MAF) and it’s equidistant to both Midland/Odessa and Amarillo from LBB. Both drives are right at 1.5hr.

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

The smaller city Texas market is really owned by AA and WN. UA has drawn down their intra-Texas flyng since the merger with CO. There is UA service to MAF, LBB, AMR and CRP, but it's usually just a few times a day to work with their connecting banks at IAH. AA, through their American Eagle subsidiaries does a powerhouse business flying folks to and from secondary Texas markets through DFW. No, AUS would not make a good hub. Mainly due to lack of gate space. Connecting AMA, MAF, and LBB to SLC could make sense in order to facilitate westward connections. UA probably has this market to themselves with DEN connections.

I don't know, I think UA goes further than WN in that United Express flies to Laredo, College Station and Killeen. WN only flies to larger markets now with the exception of the legacy Texas cities. This is probably due to equipment, and using a 737 for such short hops is not that efficient now that their route map has grown tremendously since the airline's inception. I would say the small Texas market is dominated by American Eagle and United Express. Combined, the Rio Grande Valley is the 5th largest MSA/area behind Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. El Paso has Delta service, I think HRL could support DL service if one considers the two county region that has over 1 million people. CRP looks bad, they have around 4 daily flights at around 50-60% full.

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

No, AUS would not make a good hub. Mainly due to lack of gate space.

As is the case with every airport before it becomes a hub for the first time. What matters is whether or not an airport has enough space to build a new concourse or terminal and AUS does.

I think for the most part Delta understands it really can't compete on a large scale in Texas hence the retreat from their DFW hub and for the most part Delta doesn't even run mainline out of IAH and DFW to all it's hubs and that right there says a lot.

Noise wrote:

Does Delta really need a Texas hub?

What purpose would that serve?

For east-west connecting traffic, doesn't SLC, MSP, DTW and even ATL do the job quite well already?

If Delta would build a hub at AUS at least it would put to rest all the talk on a.net of how underserved the AUS market is.

YRflier wrote:

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

The smaller city Texas market is really owned by AA and WN. UA has drawn down their intra-Texas flyng since the merger with CO. There is UA service to MAF, LBB, AMR and CRP, but it's usually just a few times a day to work with their connecting banks at IAH. AA, through their American Eagle subsidiaries does a powerhouse business flying folks to and from secondary Texas markets through DFW. No, AUS would not make a good hub. Mainly due to lack of gate space. Connecting AMA, MAF, and LBB to SLC could make sense in order to facilitate westward connections. UA probably has this market to themselves with DEN connections.

I don't know, I think UA goes further than WN in that United Express flies to Laredo, College Station and Killeen. WN only flies to larger markets now with the exception of the legacy Texas cities. This is probably due to equipment, and using a 737 for such short hops is not that efficient now that their route map has grown tremendously since the airline's inception. I would say the small Texas market is dominated by American Eagle and United Express. Combined, the Rio Grande Valley is the 5th largest MSA/area behind Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. El Paso has Delta service, I think HRL could support DL service if one considers the two county region that has over 1 million people. CRP looks bad, they have around 4 daily flights at around 50-60% full.

First, DL already fly to HRL, albeit seasonally (from MSP). RGV is just not exactly a region flushed with money, either (Economy is basically agriculture and tourism, with some cross-border commence, but that's about it). Even AA, WN, and UA doesn't has tons of service to that region, either (AA to DFW only from MFE and BRO, UA to IAH from all 3, WN fly to/from HRL only, and to HOU and AUS only).

P.S. WN will kill DL if DL even get close to trying to expand in AUS.

YRflier wrote:

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

The smaller city Texas market is really owned by AA and WN. UA has drawn down their intra-Texas flyng since the merger with CO. There is UA service to MAF, LBB, AMR and CRP, but it's usually just a few times a day to work with their connecting banks at IAH. AA, through their American Eagle subsidiaries does a powerhouse business flying folks to and from secondary Texas markets through DFW. No, AUS would not make a good hub. Mainly due to lack of gate space. Connecting AMA, MAF, and LBB to SLC could make sense in order to facilitate westward connections. UA probably has this market to themselves with DEN connections.

I don't know, I think UA goes further than WN in that United Express flies to Laredo, College Station and Killeen. WN only flies to larger markets now with the exception of the legacy Texas cities. This is probably due to equipment, and using a 737 for such short hops is not that efficient now that their route map has grown tremendously since the airline's inception. I would say the small Texas market is dominated by American Eagle and United Express. Combined, the Rio Grande Valley is the 5th largest MSA/area behind Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. El Paso has Delta service, I think HRL could support DL service if one considers the two county region that has over 1 million people. CRP looks bad, they have around 4 daily flights at around 50-60% full.

Well technically there is DL service via the seasonal MSP flight but that flight is only around because SY launched their flight. And those flights are only around for south padre island. Now if South Padre Island ever became a more popular tourism destination, then maybe but even so DL just doesn't have a geographically appropriate hub. This is where the MEM hub would have been the likely choice but now that's gone so I don't see it happening.

El Paso's economy (and military/government presence) on the other hand can help it sustain its set of flights. The RGV and El Paso aren't close to each other when it comes to local demand. El Paso has several direct flights in addition to hub routes.

klm617 wrote:

Noise wrote:

Does Delta really need a Texas hub?

What purpose would that serve?

For east-west connecting traffic, doesn't SLC, MSP, DTW and even ATL do the job quite well already?

If Delta would build a hub at AUS at least it would put to rest all the talk on a.net of how underserved the AUS market is.

Midwestindy wrote:

Sure you can find holes in the networks of AA, DL, and UA, but that doesn't mean AA needs to open up a hub in the Northwest, DL in Texas, and UA in the Southeast. And all have said unequivocally countless times recently that they do not want to open up more hubs.

Even though there are restrictions on the AA-AS codeshare, AA still has its code on some AS routes between AS's SEA hub and smaller destinations in the Pacific Northwest that AA doesn't serve. In addition, AA acquired a larger presence in the Pacific Northwest through the AA-US merger, and AA has expanded at BOI and GEG since the AA-US merger.

UA actually does have nonstop service to some of its smaller destinations in the Southeast from its ORD, DEN, IAH, EWR, and IAD hubs. UA can connect passengers to the Upper Midwest, Mountain West, Pacific Northwest, and Canada from the Southeast through ORD. UA can connect passengers to the Northeast, Canada, and Europe from the Southeast through its IAD and EWR hubs. UA can connect passengers from the Southeast to the Southwest, Mountain West, West Coast, Hawaii, Latin America, Asia, Australia, and New Zealand through its IAH hub.

afcjets wrote:

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

No, AUS would not make a good hub. Mainly due to lack of gate space.

As is the case with every airport before it becomes a hub for the first time. What matters is whether or not an airport has enough space to build a new concourse or terminal and AUS does.

No question AUS needs gates. No reason to expect that DL would want all of them to open a small hub. It would be at best a small focus city. It already has a pretty good variety of destinations, and numerous flights to the coasts.

FA9295 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The only possible way that Delta could fit these cities into their network is service to/from ATL. Actually, Delta recently pulled out of ATL service to/from Killeen/Fort Hood Airport (GRK), so IDK why service to ATL from AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP would turn out any better than GRK was...

I would argue that SLC could also be served from West Texas with CR7's maybe but not CRP. These aren't big traffic generators however and as stated above all of the US3 have their "holes".

I created this map for y'all. It shows DLs hubs and focus cities, from west to east (or vice versa). You can decide which hub should provide service.



It looks like some destinations in western Texas could be better served from SLC hub.

Those cities are all well served by WN, AA, and a lesser degree UA. The simple truth is that they are not large enough to require additional service.

DDR wrote:

Those cities are all well served by WN, AA, and a lesser degree UA. The simple truth is that they are not large enough to require additional service.

Bingo.

MEM was supposed to fill the role of shuttling people to those Texas Cities mentioned, but we see how that went. I think DL is fine to sit Texas out, its really taken up by AA, UA ans WN. They serve all the major cities there, the smaller ones they are probably ok with not serving. Perhaps one day they can restart CRP-ATL and try HRL-ATL but I dont think its on the top of their priority list right now.

brian415 wrote:

I created this map for y'all. It shows DLs hubs and focus cities, from west to east (or vice versa). You can decide which hub should provide service.



It looks like some destinations in western Texas could be better served from SLC hub.

This. A similar map for UA routing EWR-IAD-ORD-IAH-DEN-LAX-SFO would show a gap between the Carolinas and Mississippi, and to a lessor extent the PNW. A map for AA routing NYC-PHL-DCA-CLT-MIA-ORD-DFW-PHX-LAX would miss almost all of the Mountain states and PNW. Even after the mega mergers all 3 have areas of weakness to counteract the markets they dominate.

I remember when DL had a fairly decent presence in DFW. Of course, I can remember 7 flights a day LAW - DFW (FWIW, AA also had 7 flights). But many of those were 6 rows (or less). The economy has changed. DL simply could not defend all its turf and keep DFW. I don't see it as a truce as simple reality. AA and UA have a massive number of contracts in TX. WN captures many budget conscious biz and occasional travelers. Where is the room for DL? How many people day will go LBB- ATL - ??. There is simply a limit.

AUS is getting a DL Skyclub. That actually surprises me. Perhaps it is the start of a few extra flights into AUS, but AA has a big presence there (including a BA flight to LHR). IAH, which has a much higher population, you notice has no DL Skyclub (not even the old space that was an AA Admirals club in terminal A).

I am glad to see the ELP SLC route restored. At one point, there were 3x a day ATL - ELP. Then it went down to 2, one of which was RJ. ELP has major military travel, so if DL can pull some of that, as well as people coming to Juarez for work, it could be good for DL. SLC has flights to CDG and NRT, and I wonder if connections will be options for those destinations. But I do wonder, if DL, could add something into LAX (as UA already has I believe).

As to DFW - I wonder how much traffic AM could funnel into connections there? Ditto into IAH.

klm617 wrote:

If Delta would build a hub at AUS at least it would put to rest all the talk on a.net of how underserved the AUS market is.

But there would be new whining about AUS undermining DTW.

IMO, MCI makes more sense as a focus city for DL ...
http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... in-history

but my money would be on expansion of SLC, as shown by today's announcement of new SLC/ELP service.
http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... ty-service

If WN didn't "own" STL...

RyanairGuru wrote:

This. A similar map for UA routing EWR-IAD-ORD-IAH-DEN-LAX-SFO would show a gap between the Carolinas and Mississippi, and to a lessor extent the PNW. A map for AA routing NYC-PHL-DCA-CLT-MIA-ORD-DFW-PHX-LAX would miss almost all of the Mountain states and PNW. Even after the mega mergers all 3 have areas of weakness to counteract the markets they dominate.

Here you go ... This is for UA:

This is for AA:

WPvsMW wrote:

klm617 wrote:

IMO, MCI makes more sense as a focus city for DL ...
http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... in-history

but my money would be on expansion of SLC, as shown by today's announcement of new SLC/ELP service.
http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... ty-service

MCI might get better services once the terminal and construction is finished.

I find in interesting that the service to SLC is "new." It is a re-start (as others have stated). I've flown that route! I picked it once as an alternative to flying via ATL.

At least this link has the flight TO ELP taking over 12 hrs (obvious typo).

http://kutv.com/news/local/delta-airlin ... ice-to-slc

I was hoping for a mainline flight, perhaps a 319. But something is better than nothing.

The Delta hub at DFW was in operation in the 1980s through the early days of the 21st Century. When I was a Comair (OH) CSA at CVG back in the late 1990s, I rerouted a number of misconnects, delayed passengers, etc. through Delta's DFW hub. Delta called upon Atlantic Southeast (EV), their Delta Connection partner in Atlanta, to serve smaller cities in and around Texas from DFW. But Delta's DFW hub was never anywhere as big as American's DFW hub was, even at its peak.

But, it MIGHT have been! When Delta's CVG hub was in the planning stages, Delta made it known that it wanted concessions from the Kentucky state government in Frankfort for the new hub. If it didn't get those concessions, Delta publicly threatened to invest its capital for expansion at DFW instead of CVG! However, IIRC the threats were unnecessary, as Governor Martha Layne Collins put together a panel of business leaders, bankers and politicians to work with Delta to get the CVG hub deal finalized. And, she was successful in doing so. BTW, Governor Collins was also responsible for Toyota locating its large manufacturing facility at Georgetown, Kentucky.

The idea of Delta having a hub at AUS may have some merit down the road. For right now, I pray for the people of Austin during this anxious time with a serial bomber still at large. I wish for the murdered victims to rest in peace, that their loved ones will be comforted, that the injured victims heal quickly and completely, and that the perpetrator(s) be apprehended soon and brought to swift justice!

WPvsMW wrote:

IMO, MCI makes more sense as a focus city for DL ...
http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... in-history [..]

OKC is better focus city choice geographically, speaking. The MSA (metropolitan statistical area) population is right in between that of SLC and MCI. I re-drew DL's map with AUS + OKC + MCI thrown in there for good measure ...

Here is a map with AUS + MCI removed ...

Still waiting for IAH - SEA and LAX. Some of the biggest whole in Delta IAH operation.

LH658 wrote:

Still waiting for IAH - SEA and LAX. Some of the biggest whole in Delta IAH operation.

Their void at ORD (from their hubs) is absolutely, even more shocking! Horrid! (Sorry, this thread is about DL in TX).