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JumboMaiden
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:12 pm

I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:33 pm

How much J is planned? I see 4 classes to refresh the product on that to the USA. BTW, EWR does see a 4-class plane/
 
george77300
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:48 pm

JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.


The B787-10 will NOT have range for South America. It will be US East Coast/Midwest and some African,Middle East and possibly India.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:32 pm

JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.


If that's the case, that probably rules out anything further away than about the flying time of about LHR-ORD.

I imagine anything on the US East Coast/YYZ, Dubai, Abuja, Kuwait etc will see these planes, maybe even Moscow depending how demand goes.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:51 pm

george77300 wrote:
JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.


The B787-10 will NOT have range for South America. It will be US East Coast/Midwest and some African,Middle East and possibly India.


If we assume a 5500nm "real world" range, that comfortably covers all of North America, all of East Asia, much of SEA (missing out only SIN in BA's route network), and even South America to GRU. BA (and other European carriers) simply don't fly that much ULR sectors.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:07 am

MrHMSH wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:

The 787-10's range is a couple of hundred kilometres less than that of the 777-200ER.


You are correct, but London to Argentina is 7291 miles, 787-10 range is 9438.6 miles. Should be able to do it full no problem.


You sure? Boeing's website gives a range of 7400 miles/6430nm/11910km. But in practice I'm not sure the 78X can make anywhere near that, its performance is better than the A333 but not by much more. EZE is one of BA's longest routes, exceeded only by SCL.



The reports I have seen say the 78J can go 6000nm with full pax and bags. The cargo hold is massive which skews the numbers when you talk about range at MTOW.
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MrHMSH
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:47 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

You are correct, but London to Argentina is 7291 miles, 787-10 range is 9438.6 miles. Should be able to do it full no problem.


You sure? Boeing's website gives a range of 7400 miles/6430nm/11910km. But in practice I'm not sure the 78X can make anywhere near that, its performance is better than the A333 but not by much more. EZE is one of BA's longest routes, exceeded only by SCL.



The reports I have seen say the 78J can go 6000nm with full pax and bags. The cargo hold is massive which skews the numbers when you talk about range at MTOW.


I'm sure posters have put up payload/range charts showing that the 78X will take its full payload (not just passengers and bags) out to 4000nm. You can fly a 78X 6000nm, but that's a little silly, so don't expect anyone to do so.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:16 am

My point is the 78J is not as range limited as many seem to think. LHR to anywhere in North America is easily done. I believe the 6000nm number with full pax and bags is legitimate.

Would 6000nm missions be optimal..... No, I think the 78J sweet spot for range is 3000-5000 nm. But much like EK, I think BA could deploy the 78J over 95% of its route network with great success. When you look at the CASM numbers for the 78J they are truly impressive. Great plane IMHO.
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MrHMSH
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:37 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
My point is the 78J is not as range limited as many seem to think. LHR to anywhere in North America is easily done. I believe the 6000nm number with full pax and bags is legitimate.


Legitimate... but 'legitimate' doesn't mean viable or preferable to other types. No one disputes that the 78X (it is 78X, not 78J) will make North America easily... but North America is not 6000nm away. 78X flights over 5000nm will be rare. The real world puts a considerable dampener on 'brochure' ranges, which is what your 6000nm figure is.

Would 6000nm missions be optimal..... No, I think the 78J sweet spot for range is 3000-5000 nm. But much like EK, I think BA could deploy the 78J over 95% of its route network with great success. When you look at the CASM numbers for the 78J they are truly impressive. Great plane IMHO.


But the plane is also expensive and airlines haven't bitten in large numbers yet. 7 customers on the eve of EIS (plus lessors).

95% is an optimistic bet even for BA, that said. It's not really viable for short-haul and it won't be seen on 95% of long-haul routes. The question isn't whether it's possible, the question is whether it's better than the 789 (possibly A359 in the future), and for the longest routes the economics for the longer range models is better. Not to mention that it's far too small for several routes.

Let's have your CASM numbers for the 78X.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:11 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
My point is the 78J is not as range limited as many seem to think. LHR to anywhere in North America is easily done. I believe the 6000nm number with full pax and bags is legitimate.

Would 6000nm missions be optimal..... No, I think the 78J sweet spot for range is 3000-5000 nm. But much like EK, I think BA could deploy the 78J over 95% of its route network with great success. When you look at the CASM numbers for the 78J they are truly impressive. Great plane IMHO.


If the BA 787-10s don't have crew bunks like rumored above, they will not be able to fly a lot of the long haul network even if the plane is capable.
 
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Goodyear
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:13 am

Am hearing rumors (scuttlebutt) that BA intends to make PHX 2x daily year-round, and the 787-10 makes this possible surely.
 
george77300
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:46 am

Goodyear wrote:
Am hearing rumors (scuttlebutt) that BA intends to make PHX 2x daily year-round, and the 787-10 makes this possible surely.


As others mentioned if no crew rest area, no matter the plane capability, it can’t fly long haul. I’d imagine PHX is too far with no crew rest. It probably can’t go further than ORD in the US without it.
 
rbavfan
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:28 am

kaitak744 wrote:
The longest route BA flies is LHR-SCL, which is 6,281nm. Well within the range of the 787-10. They can / will fly the 787-10 to pretty much any route in their network that they see fit. Unlike the A380, I don't see it relegating to a select few.


You forget that is still air range. they would need around 7100nm range to fly LHR-SCL due to winds.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:30 am

Goodyear wrote:
Am hearing rumors (scuttlebutt) that BA intends to make PHX 2x daily year-round, and the 787-10 makes this possible surely.

PHX has been discussed at length in other threads but, as others have said, the 78X will be suboptimal for PHX. They are buying it to be a CASM killer on US east coast routes which means there's no need to weigh it down with crew rest areas when you have 789s and 35Ks in the fleet.
Last edited by TedToToe on Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:14 am

MrHMSH wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
My point is the 78J is not as range limited as many seem to think. LHR to anywhere in North America is easily done. I believe the 6000nm number with full pax and bags is legitimate.


Legitimate... but 'legitimate' doesn't mean viable or preferable to other types. No one disputes that the 78X (it is 78X, not 78J) will make North America easily... but North America is not 6000nm away. 78X flights over 5000nm will be rare. The real world puts a considerable dampener on 'brochure' ranges, which is what your 6000nm figure is.

Would 6000nm missions be optimal..... No, I think the 78J sweet spot for range is 3000-5000 nm. But much like EK, I think BA could deploy the 78J over 95% of its route network with great success. When you look at the CASM numbers for the 78J they are truly impressive. Great plane IMHO.


But the plane is also expensive and airlines haven't bitten in large numbers yet. 7 customers on the eve of EIS (plus lessors).

95% is an optimistic bet even for BA, that said. It's not really viable for short-haul and it won't be seen on 95% of long-haul routes. The question isn't whether it's possible, the question is whether it's better than the 789 (possibly A359 in the future), and for the longest routes the economics for the longer range models is better. Not to mention that it's far too small for several routes.

Let's have your CASM numbers for the 78X.



You basically repeated what I said as if it is something new. The 78J is optimized for 3000-5000nm missions. Can it fly beyond this....sure. But depending on mission requirements there are likely better choices. However, from LHR there are not many missions beyond 5000nm for BA. The 78J can cover the vast majority of BA's long haul network very effectively.


If you are looking for economics of the frame this is an excellent article. https://leehamnews.com/2017/11/15/emira ... gs-787-10/


The CASM numbers Leeham previously posted are now behind a pay wall, but the advantages of the frame are highlighted in the link above.
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MrHMSH
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:24 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
My point is the 78J is not as range limited as many seem to think. LHR to anywhere in North America is easily done. I believe the 6000nm number with full pax and bags is legitimate.


Legitimate... but 'legitimate' doesn't mean viable or preferable to other types. No one disputes that the 78X (it is 78X, not 78J) will make North America easily... but North America is not 6000nm away. 78X flights over 5000nm will be rare. The real world puts a considerable dampener on 'brochure' ranges, which is what your 6000nm figure is.

Would 6000nm missions be optimal..... No, I think the 78J sweet spot for range is 3000-5000 nm. But much like EK, I think BA could deploy the 78J over 95% of its route network with great success. When you look at the CASM numbers for the 78J they are truly impressive. Great plane IMHO.


But the plane is also expensive and airlines haven't bitten in large numbers yet. 7 customers on the eve of EIS (plus lessors).

95% is an optimistic bet even for BA, that said. It's not really viable for short-haul and it won't be seen on 95% of long-haul routes. The question isn't whether it's possible, the question is whether it's better than the 789 (possibly A359 in the future), and for the longest routes the economics for the longer range models is better. Not to mention that it's far too small for several routes.

Let's have your CASM numbers for the 78X.



You basically repeated what I said as if it is something new. The 78J is optimized for 3000-5000nm missions. Can it fly beyond this....sure. But depending on mission requirements there are likely better choices. However, from LHR there are not many missions beyond 5000nm for BA. The 78J can cover the vast majority of BA's long haul network very effectively.


If you are looking for economics of the frame this is an excellent article. https://leehamnews.com/2017/11/15/emira ... gs-787-10/


The CASM numbers Leeham previously posted are now behind a pay wall, but the advantages of the frame are highlighted in the link above.


I explained why your 6000nm figure was inaccurate to use as a measure. Don’t take it personally. You didn’t say anything about how brochure and real world range is different, so I added it.

And as above: the 78X will not cover all size ranges, it’s clearly no A380, and won’t cover most 744 routes either. Which means 95% is too optimistic a figure.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:12 am

MrHMSH wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Legitimate... but 'legitimate' doesn't mean viable or preferable to other types. No one disputes that the 78X (it is 78X, not 78J) will make North America easily... but North America is not 6000nm away. 78X flights over 5000nm will be rare. The real world puts a considerable dampener on 'brochure' ranges, which is what your 6000nm figure is.



But the plane is also expensive and airlines haven't bitten in large numbers yet. 7 customers on the eve of EIS (plus lessors).

95% is an optimistic bet even for BA, that said. It's not really viable for short-haul and it won't be seen on 95% of long-haul routes. The question isn't whether it's possible, the question is whether it's better than the 789 (possibly A359 in the future), and for the longest routes the economics for the longer range models is better. Not to mention that it's far too small for several routes.

Let's have your CASM numbers for the 78X.



You basically repeated what I said as if it is something new. The 78J is optimized for 3000-5000nm missions. Can it fly beyond this....sure. But depending on mission requirements there are likely better choices. However, from LHR there are not many missions beyond 5000nm for BA. The 78J can cover the vast majority of BA's long haul network very effectively.


If you are looking for economics of the frame this is an excellent article. https://leehamnews.com/2017/11/15/emira ... gs-787-10/


The CASM numbers Leeham previously posted are now behind a pay wall, but the advantages of the frame are highlighted in the link above.


I explained why your 6000nm figure was inaccurate to use as a measure. Don’t take it personally. You didn’t say anything about how brochure and real world range is different, so I added it.

And as above: the 78X will not cover all size ranges, it’s clearly no A380, and won’t cover most 744 routes either. Which means 95% is too optimistic a figure.


Brochure range for the 787-10 is actually higher than 6000nm, it's 6430nm. Slightly more than a 242t A333. -15% (generous) reduction for real world still leaves ~5500nm range, which would cover damn near all of BA's current non-stop sectors except SIN and some South America.

As for size, while it's obviously no A380, it must be noted that BA rotates their A380s around to meet peak season demand and uses smaller aircraft for off-peak duty, the 787-10 could do well with the latter role. More importantly, depending on the seat configuration, it could be used to replace BAs numerous 77Es and 77Ws on lower yield, leisure-heavy routes, while the older aircraft fly higher-yield NA routes as 744 replacements.
 
pabloeing
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:39 am

West-East US flights will be easy in the B78X in BA........
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:53 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Legitimate... but 'legitimate' doesn't mean viable or preferable to other types. No one disputes that the 78X (it is 78X, not 78J) will make North America easily... but North America is not 6000nm away. 78X flights over 5000nm will be rare. The real world puts a considerable dampener on 'brochure' ranges, which is what your 6000nm figure is.



But the plane is also expensive and airlines haven't bitten in large numbers yet. 7 customers on the eve of EIS (plus lessors).

95% is an optimistic bet even for BA, that said. It's not really viable for short-haul and it won't be seen on 95% of long-haul routes. The question isn't whether it's possible, the question is whether it's better than the 789 (possibly A359 in the future), and for the longest routes the economics for the longer range models is better. Not to mention that it's far too small for several routes.

Let's have your CASM numbers for the 78X.



You basically repeated what I said as if it is something new. The 78J is optimized for 3000-5000nm missions. Can it fly beyond this....sure. But depending on mission requirements there are likely better choices. However, from LHR there are not many missions beyond 5000nm for BA. The 78J can cover the vast majority of BA's long haul network very effectively.


If you are looking for economics of the frame this is an excellent article. https://leehamnews.com/2017/11/15/emira ... gs-787-10/


The CASM numbers Leeham previously posted are now behind a pay wall, but the advantages of the frame are highlighted in the link above.


I explained why your 6000nm figure was inaccurate to use as a measure. Don’t take it personally. You didn’t say anything about how brochure and real world range is different, so I added it.

And as above: the 78X will not cover all size ranges, it’s clearly no A380, and won’t cover most 744 routes either. Which means 95% is too optimistic a figure.



Nothing taken personally. As for the 78J being able to cover 95% of BA's missions....I used that number with a purpose. Tim Clark said the 78J can cover 95% of EK's route network, and they have many more ULH flights than BA.

The 95% number is definitely not too optimistic. Maybe LHR-SIN or LHR to EZE or SCL. Those are the only BA routes I can think of where the 78J might struggle. Otherwise, I think the 78J will suit BA's route network very well.
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MrHMSH
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:59 am

ElroyJetson wrote:

Nothing taken personally. As for the 78J being able to cover 95% of BA's missions....I used that number with a purpose. Tim Clark said the 78J can cover 95% of EK's route network, and they have many more ULH flights than BA.

The 95% number is definitely not too optimistic. Maybe LHR-SIN or LHR to EZE or SCL. Those are the only BA routes I can think of where the 78J might struggle. Otherwise, I think the 78J will suit BA's route network very well.


It's too optimistic for the size and range considerations together, and then adding the caveat that the 789 and possible future A359 will be better on plenty of the longer routes even if they are possible for the 78X.

Bear in mind that EK are not BA: EK operates only widebodies whereas BA do not, you will not see the 78X on BA's European flights regularly, save maybe MAD or DME, but EK will fly them on short hops.
 
Andy33
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:40 am

Arion640 wrote:
EK006 wrote:
Tel Aviv and Cairo pop in mind as these will free the B789 and 772 that can be used to expand. I can also see DXB and RUH. They will mostly replace current medium haul 772 and 747 routes


Wouldn't they just send the 787-10's to expand? Although I didn't expect them to send the -9's to Cairo.

They have a lot of 747 capacity to replace if many are due to leave the fleet. So it would seem natural that these new aircraft coming in will replace some of these.

BA's owners IAG publish a fleet plan annually. The most recent one was November 2017, and covered the period up to the end of 2022. In that plan 24 out of the current 36 744s would be gone by the end of 2022. Brand new long-haul capable aircraft arriving in that period are 3x 788, 2x 789, 12x78x, 18x A350-1000. So mathematically some of the 78X must replace 744s.
 
Andy33
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:55 am

george77300 wrote:
Goodyear wrote:
Am hearing rumors (scuttlebutt) that BA intends to make PHX 2x daily year-round, and the 787-10 makes this possible surely.


As others mentioned if no crew rest area, no matter the plane capability, it can’t fly long haul. I’d imagine PHX is too far with no crew rest. It probably can’t go further than ORD in the US without it.


Thing is, there is no agreed standard definition of long haul. Different airlines, based in different countries with different regulations, define it differently.
As far as BA is concerned, and it is BA we're discussing, they don't even have a consistent definition based on distance. Their distinction is the cabin service standard. So to BA every single transatlantic flight is long haul. Then within that category, there are flight durations where separate crew rest facilities are required, and those where they are not. It is flight duration in time, not distance, that governs this - not surprising for an airline where so much flying takes place across the Atlantic, with winter westbound flights taking significantly longer than equivalent eastbounds, though the distance is the same.
 
shamrock321
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:16 am

BA already operates non bunked 777s to SEA and ATL. Look at EASA flight time limitations, B could easily operate an 11 hour sector without bunks...
 
CRJ900
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:41 am

SQ has put a respectable 337 seats in their B78X, including 36 lie-flat premium seats. Do SQ have crew bunks in the B78X?

If BA also goes 300+ seats that will reduce range a bit but make it a great people-hauler across the medium-haul network.
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atcsundevil
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:52 am

They wouldn't need to have bunks, they could just block off a J seat on sectors requiring it. On shorter sectors, they could sell the seat instead. Airlines have done this for years on many aircraft to avoid adding bunks. Same goes for the FAs — they can just be given a designated section in Y if they don't opt for a crew rest area. Unless there's a contractual issue, there's no reason for them to have bunks.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:23 am

CRJ900 wrote:
SQ has put a respectable 337 seats in their B78X, including 36 lie-flat premium seats. Do SQ have crew bunks in the B78X?

If BA also goes 300+ seats that will reduce range a bit but make it a great people-hauler across the medium-haul network.


That 78X also has 1-2-1 J while BA 787 Js are faux "2-3-2". 36 BA Js in a 2-class config is probably easily 350+ seats in a 78X. I don't see BA doing such a premium-light configuration, but even a layout that merely retains BAs 789s premium seating up front should still be good for ~280 seats in a four class configuration. Pretty good, all things considered.

atcsundevil wrote:
They wouldn't need to have bunks, they could just block off a J seat on sectors requiring it. On shorter sectors, they could sell the seat instead. Airlines have done this for years on many aircraft to avoid adding bunks. Same goes for the FAs — they can just be given a designated section in Y if they don't opt for a crew rest area. Unless there's a contractual issue, there's no reason for them to have bunks.


A blocked off J seat, or 2, is a J seat that can't be sold. Given that creating a dedicated crew rest area for the 787 doesn't negatively impact cabin area, or substantively affect max payload (when not used) unless one is absolutely sure it's not going to be used on longer haul sectors that *might* need it. It'd be pretty unwise to not have them.
 
KL682
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:33 am

I think it has been mentioned here, it is not about the capability of the 787-10, it's the economics... 787-10 will be utilised for certain routes with higher capacity needs than 787-9 or 8/ 772; where the range will not exceed 3800-4200nm. If there will be no crew bunks, than missions will be limiteed to 8:30hr or so (blocking a business class seat could be a possibility for 3-flight crew operations) typical markets could include:
LHR-USA Eastern Seaboard
LHR-ATL
LHR-ORD
LHR-MSP
LHR-DTW
LHR-YUL/YYZ (YYC and YVR would be on the edge of range)
GTW/LHR-Caribean
LHR-Middle East
LHR-Nigeria/Ghana/West Africa
LHR-Nairobi
LHR-Delhi/Mumbai
LHR-Moscow
 
KL682
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:50 am

JustSomeDood wrote:
A blocked off J seat, or 2, is a J seat that can't be sold. Given that creating a dedicated crew rest area for the 787 doesn't negatively impact cabin area, or substantively affect max payload (when not used) unless one is absolutely sure it's not going to be used on longer haul sectors that *might* need it. It'd be pretty unwise to not have them.


True a blocked seat is a lost revenue opportunity. However a crew bunk is an option which comes with a cost and a weight penalty. it is up to the operator to weigh the pro's and con's of both and take a decision.
 
tonystan
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:39 am

Longer flights which over the years have been operated by non-bunked 777s include SEA, YVR, DFW, IAH, DEN, ATL, MIA, BGI, ANU etc so they can still get a bit of range before flight time limitations kicks in!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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OA940
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:03 pm

Y'all should really ignore the range numbers. It really depends on a lot of things. For the 789, Boeing lists 14,140km. PER-LHR is 14,500km. If BA chooses a light or premium-heavy config that 787 could go as far as 13,000km.
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APYu
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm

Arion640 wrote:

If the BA 787-10s don't have crew bunks like rumored above, they will not be able to fly a lot of the long haul network even if the plane is capable.
[/quote]

They would be able to fly anywhere where the current G-VII* +RAES) series of 777s fly as these don't have crew bunks either.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:44 pm

APYu wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

If the BA 787-10s don't have crew bunks like rumored above, they will not be able to fly a lot of the long haul network even if the plane is capable.


They would be able to fly anywhere where the current G-VII* +RAES) series of 777s fly as these don't have crew bunks either.[/quote]

90% of the time these planes do not fly missions longer of 7-8 hours in length. If you pick 3 random VII registered planes on flight radar, they are mainly JFK, Riyadh, Dubai, Moscow etc.
 
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cv990Coronado
Posts: 378
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:11 pm

It's going to be an excellent highly economic aircraft for US/Canadian East coast and central locations plus the Middle East and possibly India.They can use the 789 or the A350's for longer routes or ones with altitude/heat or wind considerations. They will jam in the seats in their normal manner and print money with it. Why carry the expense of crew rests and also save the extra weight for additional cargo payload.
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CRJ900
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:20 pm

How much does the B787 overhead pilot and cabin crew rest modules weigh? Are we talking 1000+ kg combined?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
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TedToToe
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:52 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
How much does the B787 overhead pilot and cabin crew rest modules weigh? Are we talking 1000+ kg combined?

Including doors, access steps and the cubicles (if that's the right word) themselves, it must be in the hundreds of kilograms. Why haul that around when you are going to use the aircraft only on flights up to 8 hours?
 
Watnh787
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:15 pm

These airframes will be in a 4 class config, cabin splits unknown...with flight crew bunks, no cabin crew bunks at all, however as touched upon above depending on class of rest facility provided in the door areas the penalty is negligible, as most bunked routes are driven by industrial agreements not applicable to the growing “mixed fleet” cabin crew, who could easily cover these aeroplanes themselves to the exclusion of “legacy” crew. So watch this space.....95% of the current network looks feasible, as the last 5% is covered by the -9 beautifully...

Cabin rest seats are a misnomer in terms of rest to extend a duty, often they are the rear row of WT and only meant for an inflight break, NOT rest, often witnessed on some carriers as crew sipping coffee whilst perched on an upturned bar box...BA is after all more gentile.
 
pabloeing
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:50 am

¿Delivery dates of BA B787-10?
 
Max Q
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:05 am

JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.



Your first sentence is the most cogent


Only on A.Net could such an unverified,
second hand statement be taken seriously
and spark endless debate


And even if this person said this, crew
members have next to none ‘inside information’ they are not short on opinions
however !


Some people in management know
how this aircraft is equipped, you can
count on it, but unless they choose to
release these details to the public they
won’t be known until it’s delivered.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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ojjunior
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:35 pm

george77300 wrote:
JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.


The B787-10 will NOT have range for South America. It will be US East Coast/Midwest and some African,Middle East and possibly India.


So the 787-10 can't do what a 787-9 can? LHR-SCL, LHR-GIG, for instance?
Quite odd isn't it?
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:10 pm

ojjunior wrote:
george77300 wrote:
JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.


The B787-10 will NOT have range for South America. It will be US East Coast/Midwest and some African,Middle East and possibly India.


So the 787-10 can't do what a 787-9 can? LHR-SCL, LHR-GIG, for instance?
Quite odd isn't it?


Nowhere close. This has been discussed to death. It's an amazing plane, but it has a completely different mission than a 789. So no, not odd at all.
Whatever
 
kaitak
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:11 pm

Not really; it's for a different mission - higher load, shorter range; plenty in the BA system ideal for 787-10; US flights, Canada, ME and India. Possibly some SA and other African routes too, although altitude issues at JNB might rule that out. But certainly plenty to keep it busy.

I understand the registrations will be in the G-ZBLA-ZBLx range.

Anyone know when the first is likely to enter service. BA has quite a lot on its plate with the A350-1000 entering the fleet next year too.
 
GSTBA
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:02 pm

JFK, BOS, IAD, RUH and SEA are 5 of the stations expected to be served by the 787-10..
 
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chrisnh
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:05 pm

GSTBA wrote:
JFK, BOS, IAD, RUH and SEA are 5 of the stations expected to be served by the 787-10..


I don't know how many other U.S. stations have seen every one of BA's long-haul jets, but BOS comes close. Never seen the 788 or 763 in Boston but all the others have gone through there at one time or another I think.

As an aside, will this 787-10 seat more than the 77W, or are they pretty much the same?
 
george77300
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:53 pm

chrisnh wrote:
GSTBA wrote:
JFK, BOS, IAD, RUH and SEA are 5 of the stations expected to be served by the 787-10..


I don't know how many other U.S. stations have seen every one of BA's long-haul jets, but BOS comes close. Never seen the 788 or 763 in Boston but all the others have gone through there at one time or another I think.

As an aside, will this 787-10 seat more than the 77W, or are they pretty much the same?


The 787-10 is smaller than the 77W by a considerable margin. Whether it is configured in a premium or not premium configuration is unknown but highly unlikely to match 77W seat count. Also beginning late next year the new 77W are coming and are bound to seat more as they are going 3-4-3 as is standard now.
 
george77300
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:57 pm

kaitak wrote:
Not really; it's for a different mission - higher load, shorter range; plenty in the BA system ideal for 787-10; US flights, Canada, ME and India. Possibly some SA and other African routes too, although altitude issues at JNB might rule that out. But certainly plenty to keep it busy.

I understand the registrations will be in the G-ZBLA-ZBLx range.

Anyone know when the first is likely to enter service. BA has quite a lot on its plate with the A350-1000 entering the fleet next year too.


The 12 787-10 are ZBLA-ZBLL.
The 18 A350-1000 are XWBA-XWBR.

All 30 aircraft are delivered 2019-2021 across three years. There are three A35K coming in 2019. Likely 1 in Q3 and 2 in Q4. As for the 787-10 I’m not sure. I don’t think the LN has been released or made public through other sources yet.
 
behramjee
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:03 pm

Whatever the stated official range of the B781 is, for a more realistic point of view deduct 25% from it.

Also GRU being almost 12 hours block time won’t be possible with the B781 as BA gives its Brazilian passengers 2 piece checked baggage allowance free of cost (same it does for Kenya Ghana Nigeria flights too) thus effecting the payload.

Flying 11.5 hours max should be the cut off point for the B781.
 
BA777FO
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:20 pm

Max Q wrote:
JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.



Your first sentence is the most cogent


Only on A.Net could such an unverified,
second hand statement be taken seriously
and spark endless debate


And even if this person said this, crew
members have next to none ‘inside information’ they are not short on opinions
however !


Some people in management know
how this aircraft is equipped, you can
count on it, but unless they choose to
release these details to the public they
won’t be known until it’s delivered.


Except it's true - the company has confirmed it. The company diacussed it with BALPA and the union has informed pilots. Not only that, it comes as standard Boeing spec to have flight crew rest but not cabin crew rest. It's no great secret. It will be known before it's delivered, things like rest facilities will affect what stage lengths can be flown, things like this usually involve consultation between the airline and union.

The final configuration won't be known, it probably hasn't been finalised, but rest facilities are. So the pilot bashing can pipe down a touch!
 
FriscoHeavy
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:39 pm

behramjee wrote:
Whatever the stated official range of the B781 is, for a more realistic point of view deduct 25% from it.

Also GRU being almost 12 hours block time won’t be possible with the B781 as BA gives its Brazilian passengers 2 piece checked baggage allowance free of cost (same it does for Kenya Ghana Nigeria flights too) thus effecting the payload.

Flying 11.5 hours max should be the cut off point for the B781.



LHR-GRU average a flight time of about 11 1/2 hours, right in line with what you stated the 'max flight should be'. Block time is irrelevant in this case.

Just because 2 pieces of luggage are allowed, doesn't mean most people bring 2. In fact, few people bring more than one piece per person.

We don't know the configuration yet. It may very well be able to do LHR-GRU.. Neither you or I know at this point.
Whatever
 
LHRApproach
Posts: 24
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:59 pm

Seeing the list of destinations that operate without bunks makes me think you at least want to be looking at J load factors. I wouldn't be surprised if many of those never or very rarely sold out in J. I recall being on Continental transatlantic flights with never more than half full business class cabins. If it never sells out it's not a cost to stick a pilot in there. Low business load factor can still be very profitable. As usual, there's a lot of info which we'll never know.
 
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Channex757
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:08 pm

Airlines do not have to replace like for like. That's a.net folklore. Fleet planners have more flexibility in their thinking.

The B781 is going to be BA's midhaul superstar as far as costs are concerned. With Mixed Fleet operation also helping, the plane will find its way all over the network. Add to that the A35K for longer range work and they have a winning portfolio. I really can't see anything better for BA and their crucial North Atlantic business where frequency is important.

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