lhrsfosyd
Posts: 209
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:15 pm

behramjee wrote:
Whatever the stated official range of the B781 is, for a more realistic point of view deduct 25% from it.

Also GRU being almost 12 hours block time won’t be possible with the B781 as BA gives its Brazilian passengers 2 piece checked baggage allowance free of cost (same it does for Kenya Ghana Nigeria flights too) thus effecting the payload.

Flying 11.5 hours max should be the cut off point for the B781.


BA is no longer required to give two bag allowance to every passenger to and from Brazil. In fact they now sell hand baggage only fares.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:58 pm

LHRApproach wrote:
Seeing the list of destinations that operate without bunks makes me think you at least want to be looking at J load factors. I wouldn't be surprised if many of those never or very rarely sold out in J. I recall being on Continental transatlantic flights with never more than half full business class cabins. If it never sells out it's not a cost to stick a pilot in there. Low business load factor can still be very profitable. As usual, there's a lot of info which we'll never know.


Try boarding one of BA’s morning and afternoon LHR-JFK services. The whole plane is full, not just the 86 J seats.
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AA777223
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:53 pm

I do not understand how the 789, which flies several of the longest flights in the world, when 20 feet of fuselage length to it, can barely make it past LHR to the west coast. Something about all of these range estimates just doesn't add up to me.
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flyingclrs727
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:56 pm

JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.


That sounds like the Emirates version that is optimized for medium long haul.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:00 pm

AA777223 wrote:
I do not understand how the 789, which flies several of the longest flights in the world, when 20 feet of fuselage length to it, can barely make it past LHR to the west coast. Something about all of these range estimates just doesn't add up to me.


The ULR flights have little cargo. BA probably wants planes that can fly to California with a full load of cargo.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:01 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
No one disputes that the 78X (it is 78X, not 78J) will make North America easily...


If we want to be truly pedantic about this it is either B78X (ICAO) or 78J (IATA).

But the plane is also expensive and airlines haven't bitten in large numbers yet. 7 customers on the eve of EIS (plus lessors).


So far, judging by the transactions that have occurred over the last year or two, Boeing has been discounting the 789 considerably more than the 78J. I expect that's because 78J production capacity is limited for a longer period of time; Everett can't make them at all, and Charleston can't yet put a 78J into every production slot. Once more 78J slots open I would expect to see discounts closer to those currently offered on the 789 and quite a lot more sales.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if this rumor were correct, at least for some of the aircraft. The initial batch of 78J will be a premium product for the most premium markets, which disproportionately include East Coast US and the Middle East.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:03 pm

AA777223 wrote:
I do not understand how the 789, which flies several of the longest flights in the world, when 20 feet of fuselage length to it, can barely make it past LHR to the west coast. Something about all of these range estimates just doesn't add up to me.


The 787-10 also has the same MTOW and Landing weights as the 787-9 because it shares the same undercarriage. It’s a very limiting factor for the aircraft.
 
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AirCal737
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Routes

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:28 am

george77300 wrote:
JumboMaiden wrote:
I might be repeating rubbish gossip, but a captain told me that they were coming without bunks
If that is true they won't go to South America or California and probably not Texas either.


The B787-10 will NOT have range for South America. It will be US East Coast/Midwest and some African,Middle East and possibly India.

It does has, but that's on the edge of its abilities. But with T1000-TEN engines and BA's pretty low dense config I think it's quite possible.
 
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AirCal737
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:29 am

ikolkyo wrote:
AA777223 wrote:
I do not understand how the 789, which flies several of the longest flights in the world, when 20 feet of fuselage length to it, can barely make it past LHR to the west coast. Something about all of these range estimates just doesn't add up to me.


The 787-10 also has the same MTOW and Landing weights as the 787-9 because it shares the same undercarriage. It’s a very limiting factor for the aircraft.

MTOW is the same but MLW is 9T higher lol
 
pabloeing
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:15 pm

British_Airways CEO says first Boeing 787-10 due from 2020
 
SpeckSpot
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:47 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
The 787-10 also has the same MTOW and Landing weights as the 787-9 because it shares the same undercarriage. It’s a very limiting factor for the aircraft.


How much higher could the MTOW be if the undercarriage alone were changed (assuming no change in wing or engines)? Please ignore whether it is economically feasible to do.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:53 pm

A350 confirmed to have no F by Alex Cruz just now at IAG capital markets day. I wonder if the same is true for the 787-10.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:03 pm

KL682 wrote:
I think it has been mentioned here, it is not about the capability of the 787-10, it's the economics... 787-10 will be utilised for certain routes with higher capacity needs than 787-9 or 8/ 772; where the range will not exceed 3800-4200nm. If there will be no crew bunks, than missions will be limiteed to 8:30hr or so (blocking a business class seat could be a possibility for 3-flight crew operations) typical markets could include:
LHR-USA Eastern Seaboard
LHR-ATL
LHR-ORD
LHR-MSP
LHR-DTW
LHR-YUL/YYZ (YYC and YVR would be on the edge of range)
GTW/LHR-Caribean
LHR-Middle East
LHR-Nigeria/Ghana/West Africa
LHR-Nairobi
LHR-Delhi/Mumbai
LHR-Moscow


If we look at frequency, that is the majority of BA long haul flying. They have high frequency to North America and the routes to the east coast are short. It makes sense not to waste space with bunks if the 12 planes will be dedicated to 6-8 hour flights. Sure the plane can be used on longer flights if they put in a crew rest, but optimizing the configuration for specific markets makes sense.
 
jumpjets
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:43 pm

Arion640 wrote:
A350 confirmed to have no F by Alex Cruz just now at IAG capital markets day. I wonder if the same is true for the 787-10.


Thats disappointing and presumably rules it out from the high premium routes such as JFK and HKG - or is it possible that BA consider the new J seat
:crowded: ,which I think is to be debuted on the A350, is so good that F is made redundant. :?
 
FrancisBegbie
Posts: 135
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:33 pm

jumpjets wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
A350 confirmed to have no F by Alex Cruz just now at IAG capital markets day. I wonder if the same is true for the 787-10.


Thats disappointing and presumably rules it out from the high premium routes such as JFK and HKG - or is it possible that BA consider the new J seat
:crowded: ,which I think is to be debuted on the A350, is so good that F is made redundant. :?


No A35K to JFK makes sense. Best use your midrange king 78X there and your old guzzlers because it is close by (744). Use the A35K’s somewhere far with high demand. Don’t know details about HK; year round A380?
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:16 pm

SpeckSpot wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
The 787-10 also has the same MTOW and Landing weights as the 787-9 because it shares the same undercarriage. It’s a very limiting factor for the aircraft.


How much higher could the MTOW be if the undercarriage alone were changed (assuming no change in wing or engines)? Please ignore whether it is economically feasible to do.


The 788 test program found the actual margin above the requirements, the 789 design as wiki notes "...787-8 had required radical revision to achieve the payload-range goals of the 787-9". The gear was selected in this redo of the 787 design to take advantage of all of the easy margin reserves. So I suspect that the gear is quite close to a lot of limiting factors of the structure. The MTOW jumped from 502K to 560K, a 11.6% increase, this was well above what the original 789 was to have. I recall the 789 originally was going to share the 788 gear, but they improved it. The 78X was a pure stretch, except they did raise the engine thrust from 71K to 76K a 7% increase for the -10. So the -10 has a big range hit, but a great CASM improvement.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:27 pm

jumpjets wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
A350 confirmed to have no F by Alex Cruz just now at IAG capital markets day. I wonder if the same is true for the 787-10.


Thats disappointing and presumably rules it out from the high premium routes such as JFK and HKG - or is it possible that BA consider the new J seat
:crowded: ,which I think is to be debuted on the A350, is so good that F is made redundant. :?


It probably does to be honest. Alex Cruz said into todays briefing it’s a 52 Business class seat 747 replacement. So that aircraft configuration covers routes like MIA, DEN, LAS, PHX, CPT, KWI. So not having F is a less of an issue on these routes.
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seabosdca
Posts: 6511
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:56 pm

Arion640 wrote:
A350 confirmed to have no F by Alex Cruz just now at IAG capital markets day. I wonder if the same is true for the 787-10.


It would be shocking, at least if it were true for all of the 787-10 fleet. The most important F market in the BA network is JFK. The 787-10 was practically custom designed for the LHR-JFK mission. The 77W or 388 will take care of F to HKG for the foreseeable future.
 
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HoboJoe
Posts: 31
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Re: British Airways B787-10 Update

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:00 pm

Trust me - it will have some sort of crew rest area - Bunks are not required.

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