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Jamake1
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:57 am

luvfa wrote:
If United’s Discipline is similar to ours, it’s based on Progressive Discipline. Not wearing an Apron, and using an iPad would be a minor infraction and to terminate on a First Offense is beyond excessive!


Thank You!

I happen to know the United supervisor who took action against these two individuals. All this person had to do was direct the two working F/A's to put the iPad away. As a Purser, I have had to direct F/A's to do the same...or to get off of their smart phones. Flight attendants are trained to deescalate situations and yet this is a perfect example of where United management escalated a situation in a way that was unnecessary and ultimately very costly. If these 2 F/A's had violated a direct order, then another level of discipline could have been invoked. The supervisor didn't do the company any favors while on the witness stand. This person's responses came off as completely unreasonable and apparently the jury thought so as well. I will leave it at that.
Come fly the sun.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:17 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
The bigger, underlying problem is the high cost of these career cat ranchers. Sitting at the top of the payscale for 25+ years and being less productive/enthusiastic than someone fresh off the street is a problem the airline can't shake with lawyers like these.


Exactly! The FAs United needs (and has), are the ones who go above and beyond in making the experience a good one for the customer. I’m talking about the FAs that go around after drink service with glasses of water asking if anyone would like some, going around with the trash bin multiple times, or even going around and offering people coffee/tea after the main beverage service. I’ve seen these flight attendants on flights before, young and old. I know they exist. This is what FAs should be doing. There is simply no excuse to be playing on your iPad. I’m not suggesting we fire all old FAs, but if one has gotten to the point where they simply don’t care enough to provide a quality service, the company should have the right to terminate them, and replace them with someone who will. In fact, they are within their rights to do that. No law was broken, this was simply a civil case (IIRC). But still, I fear that the decision made will continue to breed laziness in certain FAs, that don’t take pride in their job anymore.


The FA's at UA and really the US3 in general have done terrible damage to the optics of the entire US airline industry.

They like to collectively bargain for more more more, like they are pilots or something, in an attempt to turn a job into a career, that really isnt a career.



Why can’t being a flight attendant be a career? What are they supposed to move onto after flying the friendly skies that would meet your definition of a career? If one loves what they do, anything can turn into a career as many don’t consider a 9-5 office job the pinnacle of success.

I’m sensing some elitism.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:32 pm

ual763 wrote:
RamblinMan wrote:
ual763 wrote:
But unfortunately, these 2 were caught doing it by an undercover supervisor apparently. They knew better. This is the issue people have with United these days, flight attendants/staff that don’t think the rules apply to them, and ignore the customer.


The very fact that "undercover supervisors" are spying on employees is highly indicative of a toxic work environment. It's hardly surprising that the FAs don't seem to give a rat's ass about the customers when they are shown a total lack of respect.


I guess we don’t know if they were undercover or not. That probably wasn’t the best choice of words on my part. But it happens in a lot of service industries, particularly hotels/restaurants. The cabin is a publicly accessible place (w/ a ticket of course), the office is typically not. Ever see the show Undercover Boss?


The majority of people here disagree with you as well as an entire jury. I’d take this into consideration and ask myself why I seem to agree with such harsh treatment as opposed to everyone else.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:06 pm

ual763 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
This thread makes me laugh, because it demonstrates people's ignorance. Most everybody takes a "5-minute vacation" every (or nearly every) day at work (especially in the smart phone era) and I I guarantee you there's not a single person on these forums who's nevertaken an extended one. Problem is, we're all human and we're all going to have "those moments." Of course, that won't stop some posters with an inferiority complex from insisting they've never done it and anybody who has should be disciplined. And guess what? They're probably writing those comments while at work (and not on a designated break).

"5-minute vacations" aren't problems until they become habitual and it doesn't seem like it was for these employees -- the articles report they had clean records and UA did not try to argue it was a habitual problem they had been repeatedly warned about.

There's almost no doubt there's another reason these employees were fired (in other words, this was just an excuse to can them), and almost undoubtedly related to age (they're protected by laws & a union, and their superiors were looking to circumvent it).

Shame on United!!!!


And most of us have probably never been caught either. Sure, I’ve taken a so-called “5 minute vacation,” but if I was caught, I would have to own up to it. It’s a risk we take, it didn’t pan out for them. But then again, I work in an office environment now. If I was sitting in front of 200+ customers while representing my company, I most definitely would not be on my iPad watching movies. That’s the difference here. While sitting at the airport, FAs are permitted to use their phones/iPads however they please. But, when on board, there is no place for that kind of behavior.


That’s where you make yourself out to be ignorant. You’ve never worked a day of your life facing customers the way these FAs have (25+ years). Yet claim to know how you would act stuck in a tube bored out of your mind when no one wants anything from you. Yes, you’d sit there eyes glued on the cabin lol
 
N505fx
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:07 pm

I say pay the $1.5mm and get rid of the lazy old garbage that don't care to perform their work to the level of their coworkers. I wish the US carriers had the ability to enforce service standards and not get sued though.
 
WNCrew
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:15 pm

N505fx wrote:
I say pay the $1.5mm and get rid of the lazy old garbage that don't care to perform their work to the level of their coworkers. I wish the US carriers had the ability to enforce service standards and not get sued though.


Lazy old garbage? DO you KNOW these individuals?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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compensateme
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:40 pm

N505fx wrote:
I say pay the $1.5mm and get rid of the lazy old garbage that don't care to perform their work to the level of their coworkers. I wish the US carriers had the ability to enforce service standards and not get sued though.


Service standard? We're talking about short/mid-haul domestic flights in economy. You're literally paying for transportation -- the FA are there for your safety (and no doubt the legacies would trim their in-flight staffing on such flights, if laws would permit). Service standard, BTW, consist of FA letting the weak 400 lb. a.netter taking up two seats and all the spacing in the exit row that he can't sit there. Unfortunately, that a.netter believes service standard = young, beautiful, single FA under 25 providing 5* meals and happy endings on demand. After all, his $25 ticket DEN-SFO paid for it!!!
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
Super27
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:13 pm

N505fx wrote:
I say pay the $1.5mm and get rid of the lazy old garbage that don't care to perform their work to the level of their coworkers. I wish the US carriers had the ability to enforce service standards and not get sued though.


Please elaborate on your definition of 'Service Standard' because with limited knowledge of the situation, neither of us can claim that the FA's involved weren't living up to a standard of service. Plenty of times on a Redeye, when 85% of the cabin is asleep, and the rest are watching TV or reading, there's basically nothing for an FA to do except await a call button, and then it only requires a single FA to investigate - the entire cadre doesn't need to descend onto a single passenger.

I'm happier as a passenger knowing that my FA's are able to relax and enjoy themselves while they're not actively working - in turn it makes them more relaxed, which helps foster a better customer service experience when interaction does happen.
 
RamblinMan
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:32 pm

N505fx wrote:
I say pay the $1.5mm and get rid of the lazy old garbage that don't care to perform their work to the level of their coworkers. I wish the US carriers had the ability to enforce service standards and not get sued though.

If taking a 15 minute facebook/youtube break at work when nothing else is going on makes you "lazy old garbage" then either you have an almost incomprehensibly strong work ethic, or you are being quite hypocritical with this statement. I suspect it's the latter.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:59 pm

N505fx wrote:
I say pay the $1.5mm and get rid of the lazy old garbage that don't care to perform their work to the level of their coworkers. I wish the US carriers had the ability to enforce service standards and not get sued though.



Looks like I got beat and there’s no need to reply to your garbage.

Sad to see an airline enthusiast have no concept of basic human respect and decency for the people who have lived through so much in the industry
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 am

And your case against TWA. I stand by TWA on that one too. That is stealing. It doesn’t matter that it is 4 cartons of milk. She/he stole it. At my previous workplace, we fired someone for stealing toilet paper.


The FA was set up for an unscheduled crew search over her labor union activism against TWA. Anyway, that was her allegation. Did she pilfer the milks? Sure, but there was a lot more going on that just that.

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-04-10/ ... attendants

I agree with the others. The apparent lack of a scale or gradation of offenses may have hurt UAL here. I'm a former union rep in my own field, and we have such a scale negotiated between us, our employer, and taking state labor law into account. Everytime there's an offense, the employee goes up another ratchet or two on the scale, with a serious offense potentially being fireable, and it doesn't take long to get there. Everyone knows the rules, and we don't have serious issues with our employer if one of our own steps over the line since we're all aware of the possible penalties. It also protects against discrimination. We had a case many years back where two employees were caught doing drugs sitting in their car in the employee parking lot after work hours but on the property. One was fired, one merely temporarily suspended for a few days for the same offense. Any guesses why? The former was a hardcore union type, the latter's family had connections with management. The fired employee eventually got his job back on the basis of unequal application of the rules. Perhaps he shouldn't have, but the idea here was to make the employer follow the rules in a consistent manner and they pretty much have since then. UAL could learn from this.
 
uaord2000
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:20 am

I've worked with these two flight attendants many, many times. They were well known to all of us as some of the worst to work with. They'd finish the service and go to the back galley and watch movies. Not once, but every single flight. A call light would go off and they had no clue. Leaving the purser to care for the entire plane. I'm sure years of complaints against them is what got them fired. Nothing to do with age.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:01 am

I'm curious why UA is alone in the fact that the employees take it out on the customers. It's not my fault that management is awful. Compare this to AA, NK, B6, and AS/VX where certain if not all employee groups at those airlines all have a beef with management but still remain professional and courteous to passengers. Why can't UA employees do the same?
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
ual763
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:47 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I'm curious why UA is alone in the fact that the employees take it out on the customers. It's not my fault that management is awful. Compare this to AA, NK, B6, and AS/VX where certain if not all employee groups at those airlines all have a beef with management but still remain professional and courteous to passengers. Why can't UA employees do the same?


There are bad eggs with every airline. I've had absolutely wonderful FAs on all of the carriers you've listed above, including United. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's the norm to have a wonderful FA, no matter the airline. Having said that though, there are always some that are not that wonderful, and obviously do not care about their job. I don't think that it is a problem with United in particular. The only airline I can 100% say without a doubt, that I've never ever had a sour FA on though, was Midwest Express back in the day. I don't know if it was the hot cookies, or Wisconsin based FA's, but they were the nicest & sweetest FAs I've ever experienced. I used to fly them all the time, and never had a single bad experience with any of their FAs.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:59 am

ual763 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
I'm curious why UA is alone in the fact that the employees take it out on the customers. It's not my fault that management is awful. Compare this to AA, NK, B6, and AS/VX where certain if not all employee groups at those airlines all have a beef with management but still remain professional and courteous to passengers. Why can't UA employees do the same?


There are bad eggs with every airline. I've had absolutely wonderful FAs on all of the carriers you've listed above, including United. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's the norm to have a wonderful FA, no matter the airline. Having said that though, there are always some that are not that wonderful, and obviously do not care about their job. I don't think that it is a problem with United in particular. The only airline I can 100% say without a doubt, that I've never ever had a sour FA on though, was Midwest Express back in the day. I don't know if it was the hot cookies, or Wisconsin based FA's, but they were the nicest & sweetest FAs I've ever experienced. I used to fly them all the time, and never had a single bad experience with any of their FAs.


Wish I had the chance to fly on them, I heard nothing but good things about Midwest Express as well.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:07 am

There are bad eggs with every airline. I've had absolutely wonderful FAs on all of the carriers you've listed above, including United.


Concur. I fly with UAL several times per year. I seem to either get the nicest, most professional folks around or the surliest - think Continental before the Bethune era, if you're old enough to remember. Its about 50-50. Weird, that. Its like half of the staffers I come into contact with are really moving and shaking, really trying to impress the customers, while the other half simply don't care and will give you the stink eye for asking for can of ginger ale.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: 2 Fired United FAs awarded $800k+ (Possibly 1.5mil) From Jury

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:37 am

It'll get appealed, settled for some smaller amount, and the FAs, after paying their lawyers, will get a few bucks.

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