TBau
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One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm

Hello everyone.

I was recently thinking about the concept of an airline operating a cabin composed of only business-class seats on a narrow body aircraft such as B737s or A32Xs. The cabin would have 2-2 seat configuration fitted with "traditional" business-class seats, not flat beads. The seat's pitch will more have to be reduced slightly in order to accommodate a couple of more seats, in a high-density configuration if you will.

The key in here is to offer a business-class seat and and a business-like service at a a lower price point compared to traditional business-class seats on a legacy carriers. Lets say, a price point between premium economy and business class on a traditional carrier (similarly to what La Compagnie have done in Transatlantic market, but with traditional business-class seats instead of flatbeds, and in a high-seat configuration).

What's the maximum number of seats that can be fitted inside a B737-800 in a high-density all business-class configuration? I was thinking somewhere between 76-84 seats

I would love to know your thoughts on this concept.

Cheers!
 
HJM
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:18 am

Air Canada Jetz. A319. 58J.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 am

Not a concept, been done before and its proved to be not economical.
 
davescj
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:23 am

There are companies that do this now.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
Shrewfly
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:34 am

A traditional non-reclining Business-Class seat, isn't far from some airlines "Premium Economy" these days. I'm not sure you could charge significantly more for what you suggest over a Premium Economy seat on a regular 3-class airliner. Unless of course the service and food is going to be exceptional

The question is where are the passengers going to come from. If corporations are happy paying Business class now, then those flyers would continue to fly on the lie-flat business seats as they arent paying the fare.
You might get a few Premium Economy passengers who will pay a little extra. But if their current airline has a good PE product, I cant see it.

There might be some niche routes, perhaps some luxury holiday locations?
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:45 am

The United States has seem a shift in premium traffic. Business class & first class travel demand dropped somewhere about 25% in the 2009 recession and never recovered in comparison to economy demand. Economy demand has been increasing. That was in one of United’s recently annual reports. This hurts the potential of a full business class configured airplane. Without economy seats, it is hard to earn a profit. There is a reason why the ratio of business class seats compared to economy has dropped for many airlines.
 
twicearound
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:27 am

midwest airlines?
 
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admanager
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:39 am

Not a new idea, several airlines have tried all business class aircraft.
Privatair 737
British Airways 318
Canadian Airlines 737 (Attache Service)
 
QF754
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:41 am

Not a new concept.
OzJet tried it over a decade ago (60 old-school business class seats on a 737) and lasted less than 6 months.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:49 am

Not economically viable domestically and the airlines know it.
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longhauler
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:21 am

Every airline in North America that has tried this, has been unsuccessful. Every airline.

The process has always been the same ....

Start with F fares, but people will come because it's like a club. (they don't)
Then move to reduced F fares. (they still don't come).
Then charge "Y fares for an F product". (full fare Y ... still no biters)
Then charge the same reduced Y fares as everyone else just to get people on your airplane.
Then go bankrupt.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
alasizon
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:35 am

At best you may be able to get a subfleet of aircraft equipped with all PE but even with a 10% revenue premium, does it really make sense and is there a demand beyond core business markets
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Antarius
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:39 am

This makes sense on very limited, extremely high yield routes. And there's like 3 of them in the world. JFK-LCY is one on an a318. SQ will likely restart SIN-JFK (although that is a widebody).

The closest we have to regular scheduled service in the US is the a321T that AA flies between JFK and LAX/SFO
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MO11
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:03 am

Go further back:

Air1
McClain
 
RollerRB211
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:28 am

longhauler wrote:
Every airline in North America that has tried this, has been unsuccessful. Every airline.

The process has always been the same ....

Start with F fares, but people will come because it's like a club. (they don't)
Then move to reduced F fares. (they still don't come).
Then charge "Y fares for an F product". (full fare Y ... still no biters)
Then charge the same reduced Y fares as everyone else just to get people on your airplane.
Then go bankrupt.


By EVERY airline do you mean exactly ONE airline, Midwest Express?
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:00 am

Antarius wrote:
This makes sense on very limited, extremely high yield routes. And there's like 3 of them in the world. JFK-LCY is one on an a318. SQ will likely restart SIN-JFK (although that is a widebody).

The closest we have to regular scheduled service in the US is the a321T that AA flies between JFK and LAX/SFO


You might be surprised actually. I know of at least 2 airlines that have done this with routes to India: LH on the FRA-PNQ (Pune) route (737-700 operated by Privatair) and Japan's ANA (NH) on the NRT-BOM route (also 737-700). NRT-BOM has since been up-gauged to Dreamliner service, but LH's 737 service is still continuing I think.
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NameOmitted
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:22 am

Has anyone tried a 2-3 across configuration with an offset isle in a 707, 27, 37 or 57?
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:31 am

RollerRB211 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Every airline in North America that has tried this, has been unsuccessful. Every airline.

The process has always been the same ....

Start with F fares, but people will come because it's like a club. (they don't)
Then move to reduced F fares. (they still don't come).
Then charge "Y fares for an F product". (full fare Y ... still no biters)
Then charge the same reduced Y fares as everyone else just to get people on your airplane.
Then go bankrupt.


By EVERY airline do you mean exactly ONE airline, Midwest Express?


Haven’t there been at least 3 or 4 of these carriers?

There was Legend out of Dallas, flying DC-9s with 56 seats. Plus, wasn’t there an airline that tried all-J 767s for a few minutes before going bust sometime in the past 10 years? I want to say there were actually two airlines that tried it around the same time, though one may have been Europe-based.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:44 am

BA A318 has 32 business seat, in 2-2 configuration
QR A319 has 40 seat also in 2-2 configuration
 
7673mech
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:55 am

RollerRB211 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Every airline in North America that has tried this, has been unsuccessful. Every airline.

The process has always been the same ....

Start with F fares, but people will come because it's like a club. (they don't)
Then move to reduced F fares. (they still don't come).
Then charge "Y fares for an F product". (full fare Y ... still no biters)
Then charge the same reduced Y fares as everyone else just to get people on your airplane.
Then go bankrupt.


By EVERY airline do you mean exactly ONE airline, Midwest Express?


Legend comes to mind.
Plus the others previously mentioned.
 
USAirKid
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:03 am

hOMSaR wrote:

There was Legend out of Dallas, flying DC-9s with 56 seats.


Legend also had a few interesting things going for it.
  • First airline to do LiveTV, before JetBlue had it. (They had an early generation of the LiveTV product that JetBlue uses, and at one time owned.)
  • The 56 seat configuration was specifically for DAL, as airplanes with 56 seats or less could fly to any US airport, unrestricted by the Wright Amendment.
  • Airphones and laptop power supplies in every seat.
  • Their own terminal at DAL.

AA wasn't too happy about this and they configured F100s with 56 seats and flew them on Legend's routes...
 
blueflyer
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:10 am

hOMSaR wrote:
RollerRB211 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Every airline in North America that has tried this, has been unsuccessful. Every airline.

The process has always been the same ....

Start with F fares, but people will come because it's like a club. (they don't)
Then move to reduced F fares. (they still don't come).
Then charge "Y fares for an F product". (full fare Y ... still no biters)
Then charge the same reduced Y fares as everyone else just to get people on your airplane.
Then go bankrupt.


By EVERY airline do you mean exactly ONE airline, Midwest Express?


Haven’t there been at least 3 or 4 of these carriers?

There was Legend out of Dallas, flying DC-9s with 56 seats. Plus, wasn’t there an airline that tried all-J 767s for a few minutes before going bust sometime in the past 10 years? I want to say there were actually two airlines that tried it around the same time, though one may have been Europe-based.

You may be thinking of Silverjet, they were around for maybe 18 months flying all-premium 767s between LTN and DXB or EWR.

Eos Air lasted a little longer in the same market with a fleet of 757s. Also with 757s, La Compagnie, somehow still around, and British Airways subsidiary OpenSkies, nee L'Avion.

Back to domestic operators in the US, MGM Grand Air and Air Atlanta were also all-premium narrow-body carriers for at least part of their existence.
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Matt6461
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:21 am

This might make sense on a CS300 with 1-1 seating. Use AA's reverse herringbone seat at 42in pitch and you should fit ~40 seats. Minus a few for galley/lavs in long-haul configuration and call it 36 seats. Now your J-seat is on par with the best widebody competition; range is ~5,000nm (with a few ACT's).

Compared to 737/A320, CSeries is a better fit for 1-1 J because its cabin is narrower than both while still being plenty wide.

Airlines could use this a frequency supplement for J pax on high-traffic routes. For example:

BA buys used A380's for LHR-JFK. A380 would imply reduced frequencies typically.
But instead of running 7x daily with 747/777 they do 4x daily A380 plus 3x daily CS300. That way the highest-yielding, flexible ticket J pax keep the frequency benefit while everyone else flies on a more efficient plane.
 
2175301
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:26 am

Midwest airlines essentially had that concept... along with fresh baked hot served chocolate chip cookies.

I used to fly them a fair amount... and willingly paid the premium.

They are gone now... and I just don't see anyone doing anything like that again.

Our loss...
 
cpd
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:37 am

As said before, many tried this and failed. Ozjet used ancient and noisy B737-200 aircraft for it.

People don't want this service. People want ultra low cost carrier service. They only care about price.
 
VC10er
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:18 am

I can’t see any of the 3 US majors do this for all reasons sited above (unless on very special routes) However what I have been doing is: when flying United from EWR to another major UA hub and often a major city, United often offers one or two 752, or HD 777 (sometimes a 767) where regular F gets a BF “bed” seat vs a regular F seat (chair).
If AA, DL and UA started using bed seats on flights 3.5 hours and up - on a more regular basis I think they would find more passengers ready to pony up the additional fare.
Taking an early morning or very late flight and getting a bed is an awesome way to help recoup after a night out with clients in steakhouses and bourbon toasts or getting up at 4:30am to get a flight and requiring a top off sleep before showing up for a meeting.
The vast majority of other people are unable to, or don’t want to throw their money away on such luxuries- and therefore regular economy is needed.
The real shame is that slimline seats suck so bad and inspire us to dream about Midwest Express style seats from nose to tail! (Or even a 1990s style economy seat that was 4” thick with cushioning)
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:51 am

I think the issue is the heavy weight of flatbed J seat which was primarily designed for long haul wide bodies.

AFAIK Y-15 lbs, J-100-150 lbs and F suite-300 lbs

If seat vendors can design a lightweight manual control lie/angle flatbed for J which weights less than 50 lbs, a 50:50 J:PE config could yield better on 8 hr flights.
 
pnqiad
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:56 am

globetrotter94 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
This makes sense on very limited, extremely high yield routes. And there's like 3 of them in the world. JFK-LCY is one on an a318. SQ will likely restart SIN-JFK (although that is a widebody).

The closest we have to regular scheduled service in the US is the a321T that AA flies between JFK and LAX/SFO


You might be surprised actually. I know of at least 2 airlines that have done this with routes to India: LH on the FRA-PNQ (Pune) route (737-700 operated by Privatair) and Japan's ANA (NH) on the NRT-BOM route (also 737-700). NRT-BOM has since been up-gauged to Dreamliner service, but LH's 737 service is still continuing I think.


FRA-PNQ has no longer been all J for a while now. Currently it is a 737-700 with 20J and 66Y.
 
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keesje
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:17 am

NameOmitted wrote:
Has anyone tried a 2-3 across configuration with an offset isle in a 707, 27, 37 or 57?


Many tried 757, 767 single business class and failed. A while ago I tried "DecentSeat Airways" The knee jerk reaction to this kind of innovation is generally it can't work because it doesn't exist.

Image

However the market changed over the last 15 years. Every airline offers Economy Plus/ Comfort these days, efficient long haul NB's are available / doing 3000-3500 NM flights and traffic more than doubled.

Image

Maybe a low cost NB and more of a Economy Plus / Business light product could work. You can still reach decent seat counts versus flat bed kind of products. I would like it any way. Decent seat width, pitch , recline. Standard economy class food with some extra's, a bit of space to walk around, have a drink.. I made the middle seat slightly wider than the other 4.
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StudiodeKadent
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:55 am

Matt6461 wrote:
This might make sense on a CS300 with 1-1 seating. Use AA's reverse herringbone seat at 42in pitch and you should fit ~40 seats. Minus a few for galley/lavs in long-haul configuration and call it 36 seats. Now your J-seat is on par with the best widebody competition; range is ~5,000nm (with a few ACT's).

Compared to 737/A320, CSeries is a better fit for 1-1 J because its cabin is narrower than both while still being plenty wide.


In theory you could do something similar on an Embraer E-Jet (or E2). The E-Jet's cross section is one half of that of a 787, so any business class product that fits 4-abreast in a 787 or A330 can fit 2-abreast in an E-Jet. Cirrus, Vantage XL, CL6710, you name it...

That said I doubt this is economically feasible outside of a small number of routes, and it arguably won't be technologically feasible either (in that the routes which have sufficient yield probably require more range than even an E2-190).

Anyway, as for the whole idea of narrowbody premium services, I find it a very interesting concept to say the least. There's even product like the Aviointeriors Adagio and Thompson Vantage Solo that make such services much more feasible. But the problem with such services is simple: the marginal value of comfortable seating increases with length of flight, and very few people would be willing to pay for a genuinely premium product that they only get to have for, like, 3 or 4 hours. There's absolutely a market space for premium narrowbody services but only on some routes.

Do I think there will be more of these services? Possibly, yes. Boutique airlines like La Compagnie for one. I can also see the use of A321LRs as 757 replacements but with "mini-widebody" configurations in the product, and for this to happen over the next few years. But "premium-only" airlines or aircraft will remain either nonexistent or quite rare, I think.
 
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keesje
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:02 am

VC10er wrote:
The real shame is that slimline seats suck so bad and inspire us to dream about Midwest Express style seats from nose to tail! (Or even a 1990s style economy seat that was 4” thick with cushioning)


That was my inspiration too. The 30 inch seat pitches, cramming in of another 20 inch seat per row (stating each will only get .5 inch narrower) , the narrow aisles hurting everyone, mini lavatories.

Luckily it is our own fault, because we are getting back the cheaper ticket for it. Oh, we don't..

Big airlines are reigning because the individual passenger can't do anything but go with the flow and make the best of it. And that reality is being exploited.

At a.net their are scores of people defending what is inevitable because whatever reason, they defend Boeing, Airbus or their employing airline. Dismissing every service decline as efficient, modern & most of all; our own fault.

I really hope their will be airlines succeeding in going against the stream, like Jetblue and some others. Not providing superior products, but restoring basic decency.

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
parapente
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:23 am

As you can see from all the replies TBau the concept has been tried many times.So your suggestion/question was not a stupid one.It clearly has its attractions.But the results of all those trials strongly suggests that it is not on the whole a viable one.Perhpas only in extreme cases (Concorde!).
We are witnessing a second phase on all economy LCC long haul.It was of course first started by Freddie Laker.This time around it may work in certain circumstances but the maths is very tight.
Overall the best business path for airlines is clearly a balance between Biz,economy and these days Premium in the middle.Cant see this changing in the near term.
 
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longhauler
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:27 pm

RollerRB211 wrote:
By EVERY airline do you mean exactly ONE airline, Midwest Express?

How about Air Atlanta, Air1, MGM Grand Air, McClain Airlines, Legend Airlines in the US and Astoria Air in Canada for starters? (more than "exactly ONE airline")

In fact, the one you cited, Midwest Express (version one) could be argued as the one that was successful for the longest time. That balance of a superb on board product against a slightly higher Y fare seemed to work for them. Sadly, as the passenger evolved and price became king they had to evolve as well.

What helped for Midwest Express though, was the choice of aircraft, initially. The DC-9/MD-80 idea was great. It truly was First Class, but ... it was only one less seat per row. So unless load factors edged above 80% or so, there was no penalty. Seat pitch was standard economy pitch at the time, 34".
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:51 pm

NameOmitted wrote:

Has anyone tried a 2-3 across configuration with an offset isle in a 707, 27, 37 or 57?


Continental, in the mid 1960's:

http://www.departedflights.com/CO3plus266.html
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longhauler
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:58 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Has anyone tried a 2-3 across configuration with an offset isle in a 707, 27, 37 or 57?

I have a few brochures for the "New 737" from the 1960s and it shows a 2x3 economy cabin as an option. I think Air New Zealand, (or it may still have been TEAL) flew it in that configuration.

As noted above, CO .... but also United flew DC-8s and 727s in a 2x3 configuration as well. Northwest also offered "The B720B Special". It was a 2x3 economy cabin in their B720s.

Oh to still be in an era where airlines competed with service instead of price.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
afcjets
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:28 pm

longhauler wrote:
RollerRB211 wrote:
By EVERY airline do you mean exactly ONE airline, Midwest Express?

How about Air Atlanta, Air1, MGM Grand Air, McClain Airlines, Legend Airlines in the US and Astoria Air in Canada for starters? (more than "exactly ONE airline")

In fact, the one you cited, Midwest Express (version one) could be argued as the one that was successful for the longest time. That balance of a superb on board product against a slightly higher Y fare seemed to work for them. Sadly, as the passenger evolved and price became king they had to evolve as well.

What helped for Midwest Express though, was the choice of aircraft, initially. The DC-9/MD-80 idea was great. It truly was First Class, but ... it was only one less seat per row. So unless load factors edged above 80% or so, there was no penalty. Seat pitch was standard economy pitch at the time, 34".


Yup, the DC9/MD80 definitely helped, and with a 767 you could offer 85% of the seats in all F configuration vs all Y. The CSeries will be a great aircraft for this concept too.


longhauler wrote:
I have a few brochures for the "New 737" from the 1960s and it shows a 2x3 economy cabin as an option. I think Air New Zealand, (or it may still have been TEAL) flew it in that configuration.


Piedmont's first 737s were 2x3, you can see it here...

https://youtu.be/ek9M6VE_zCM?t=56s
 
102IAHexpress
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:56 pm

The most sucessful attempt of this business model was Concord. But we all know how that ended. However, A longer range Concorde type jet that could fly to Japan and China from the US west coast could work.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:59 pm

When I travel for work the most important factor beyond anything else is that I get to the destination and whilst it might be lots of business travel between major hubs there is probably more that still requires a connection and the small business airline that will ultimately lack the availability of connections at one or both ends to allow them to compete on most journeys.

Fred
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keesje
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:10 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Oh to still be in an era where airlines competed with service instead of price.
They still do, just not generally in Y.


Y+ ..

Image

I knew what you were gonna say ..
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cledaybuck
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:11 pm

longhauler wrote:
Oh to still be in an era where airlines competed with service instead of price.
They still do, just not generally in Y.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:53 pm

This really only works when oil is super cheap. That's mainly what killed Midwest Express, later known as Midwest Airlines. Competition from AirTran and Southwest coming into MKE also hurt. Once they had to add true coach they became every other airline and thus not viable. Today, the lack of fragmentation in the US market at least, prevents it. The big 4 airlines dominate the market to the point new entrants have a hard time surviving even if they could get investor capital. With Virgin America not working out, that may be the last real new entrant for a while. It would be interesting to see if there was any way to make it work on a low cost aircraft (used market) serving the big metro markets (ATL, CHI, NYC, BOS, DAL, HOU, PHX, LA, SF, SEA, DC, PHL, MIA, ORL - cities...not necessarily airports). The problem I think would be differentiating service at the airport to command the premium. Once you land at LAX, you're still at LAX and that's no different than if you're on AA, UA or DL so not worth paying more necessarily.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:25 pm

The real problem is business traffic is only about 15% or less of traffic (almost 50% of revenue). There is just not enough of them.
An airline can go the other route (all economy) though because their are enough of those travelers that travel only based on price.
And the big guys all already serve all of those lucrative business markets. Why would Joe Biz fly new and better airline to some limited subset of business markets with zero ability to take his family on a award vacation? Why would corporate accounts switch? The only way you could get enough traffic to fill the seats is to way undercut the majors.
Something like 50% of all travelers in the US travel less than once every 3-4 years, the remaining % travel something like 1-3 trips a year are you going to get any of those folks to pay more than the cheapest coach?
It would only be possible (still not likely successful) in a few limited one-off business markets. The problem is if some airline got 5-10 planes and found 4-5 markets where this would work and make money they inevitably would expand and then go out of business.

Ultimately now we are seeing the majors all going to a much more segmented cabin to maximize revenue, that trend will only continue. BTW Southwest may find itself at a huge revenue disadvantage in the next decade because of that....
 
JFKIceman
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:00 pm

Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:37 pm

Privatair has a 737 with a 44 seat configuration. Used to fly CPH-EWR-CPH for SAS
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: One Single Business-Class Cabin Concept on Narrow Body Aircraft

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Well, and much of the business traffic is likely corporate and tied to certain airlines. Without some corporate accounts - siazable and/or numerous - you’ll be fighting a losing battle for the scraps.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.

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