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readytotaxi
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LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:14 am

As part of the ongoing, oh so slow process, the Transport Committee say there should be a ban of 7 hours overnight.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43505016
The airport currently does not have a ban on night flights. There is currently a government proposal for a night flight ban of six-and-a-half hours.
"Heathrow does, though, have restrictions on the number of take-offs and landings it is allowed between the night hours of 11:30 and 06:00.
It can only make 5,800 take-offs and landings a year during these times, with more allowed in winter than summer."

A ban similar to FRA, would it work? Sure the locals would like it.
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GCT64
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:32 am

6.5 might just be OK (11pm-5:30am I guess) but I think 7 is too much. The reality is that there are very few flights in that period anyway.
There needs to be exemptions for late or early running flights (e.g. early arrivals from HKG) or delayed departures at night, we don't want a situation at LHR where a perfectly serviceable plane and crew and set of pax can't depart because of some artificial limitation/restriction, that doesn't really help anyone.
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AmbroseRPM
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:12 am

Look at what happens at SYD where you have planes diverted and not able to take off due to the curfew. It would be a bad idea for LHR.
 
itisi
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:30 am

Tell those living near the airport to bugger off. I'm sure 99% moved there after there was any form of airport there anyway!!!

You move next to an airport then expert it to be quiet....
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parapente
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:06 pm

Except the normal landing path to Heathrow starts right over the middle of London.Any person especially children should have the right to 7 hours interrupted sleep if possible.My concern is more about the x thousand excemptions that are allowed (yes the airline pays a bit more).It only takes one aircraft landing at 4.30 to wake people up.So whatever total quiet time is agreed it should be mandatory so that period is guaranteed.
 
scotron11
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:10 pm

itisi wrote:
Tell those living near the airport to bugger off. I'm sure 99% moved there after there was any form of airport there anyway!!!

You move next to an airport then expert it to be quiet....


Totally agree 100%. I remember when DFW was 1st built. There was practically nothing around the airport. Look at it now!
 
PanHAM
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:11 pm

Six hurs is too much already.Too many passengers would be affected from such a ridiculous curfew, especially when they are made guillotine style when full serviced wide bodies about to take off are sent back to the stand becaise it is a few seconds past cirfew time. At least should take Offs allowed when the aircraft has left the stand 14 minutes before curfew time.

The best solution is no curfew at all. Planes get quieter with every Generation, a fact that is totally and deliberately ignored by the NIMBYs
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airbazar
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm

itisi wrote:
Tell those living near the airport to bugger off. I'm sure 99% moved there after there was any form of airport there anyway!!!

You should probably familiarize yourself with the history of LHR before posting nonsense.
Commercial operations at LHR are not as old as some people think they are. Commercial operations only started after WWII and it was really only in the 50's that LHR transformed itself into a major commercial airport and the locals have been fighting it since. In simple terms, the locals didn't want LHR there in 1946 and they don't want it there now. This is hardly a new population thing.
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:27 pm

airbazar wrote:
itisi wrote:
Tell those living near the airport to bugger off. I'm sure 99% moved there after there was any form of airport there anyway!!!

You should probably familiarize yourself with the history of LHR before posting nonsense.
Commercial operations at LHR are not as old as some people think they are. Commercial operations only started after WWII and it was really only in the 50's that LHR transformed itself into a major commercial airport and the locals have been fighting it since. In simple terms, the locals didn't want LHR there in 1946 and they don't want it there now. This is hardly a new population thing.


The noise can be pretty terrible around Brentford, which most definitely predates the airport. I mean, I enjoyed it as a visitor and spotting the low flying aircraft, but I could see that getting very old, very fast for a resident.
 
uta999
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:43 pm

Heathrow in the mid-1940s and even late 1950s was surrounded for miles by open countryside. There were no locals, just a few tiny hamlets and farms. Look on Google maps for the period. The urbanisation came much later than the airport. Let's be clear, the area of the proposed 3rd runway is wasteland and has been for over 70 years. Devon & Cornwall it ain't.

Between the M4 and A4 is a dump that has been left for generations, because it was planned to expand Heathrow onto it at some stage. Otherwise it would have disappeared under housing estates long ago. Yes, some will need to move but that is progress.

Heathrow should be open 24 hours and when winds allow, early arrivals should land on easterly, and departures westerly. They should also route aircraft where possible, outside the M25 during night operations, thus avoiding flying over central and west London. There is no reason why the two runways cannot operate in opposing directions (at night), being a mile apart.
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:49 pm

I think noise and other regulation will become more stringent across Europe and other mature areas in coming years.
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SelseyBill
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:20 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
.......the "Transport Select Committee".......

......doesn't know the difference between a Cessna 172 and a A380.

readytotaxi wrote:
....sure the locals would like it.

......most of them work at Heathrow anyways.......
 
YIMBY
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:04 pm

parapente wrote:
Except the normal landing path to Heathrow starts right over the middle of London.Any person especially children should have the right to 7 hours interrupted sleep if possible.My concern is more about the x thousand excemptions that are allowed (yes the airline pays a bit more).It only takes one aircraft landing at 4.30 to wake people up.So whatever total quiet time is agreed it should be mandatory so that period is guaranteed.


Actually adults should have the right to 8 hours interrupted sleep and children up to 10 hours.

If the noise really prevents children to sleep, the ban should be from 21 to 7 o'clock. A better solution might be to move elsewhere or build robust houses with double windows (one thin and other thick) that prevent the noise entering bedrooms. That has been done elsewhere.
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:20 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
....sure the locals would like it.

......most of them work at Heathrow anyways.......[/quote]

I don't think you realise how many peope live in Hounslow.
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:44 pm

Frankly it might be more realistic to insist that only a restricted number of the quietest planes were allowed to depart and arrive during those hours. Noisier planes would need to wait until after those hours to arrive or depart.
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:47 pm

Europe economic future will be strangled by career politicians and mountains of bureaucratic nonsense. The level of PC on that continent is out of control.
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par13del
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:54 pm

So one can only wonder if these people were supporters of the Boris airport, those around LHR would have been fine, less air and ground traffic.
 
Planesmart
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:12 pm

Use market forces. You want to land during this seven hour block? No quota this time around, just base on published / real noise and emissions data. Discount fees for airlines that sign-up for hard CORSIA. Double landing, pollution and noise fees, and prohibit the loudest aircraft.

Some airlines may opt to land during the 7 hours, but defer takeoff until standard day time fees apply.
 
rlwynn
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Use market forces? Who gets the money? the people that were woken up or the Airport. The airport would love more money.
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MillwallSean
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:52 pm

To make the debate slightly more realistic, can those who comment familiarise themselves with London?
It becomes quite comical when comments such as the airport was there first are used. Hint, it wasn't. Not one bit. This is London, not a greenfield development on some US prairie.

Example: Sidcup the village next to Heathrow is from the 13th century and thats almost the norm for villages around the area.
And for anyone that's been at Buckingham Palace, watching the change of guards, a constant murmur can be heard from the sky. A quick look up would identify the murmur as coming from airplanes on their approach path to Heathrow.
On the other side of Heathrow to the west (where there are less housing and not an intensified city like London) sits some of the most expensive estates in the UK. Here you find, for example, Windsor Castle, occupied by the royals for 600 years.
Someone mentioned Brentford and I say that's quite typical for what a lot of areas in West/NW parts of London is like.

What we have is a development that hasn't even gotten to planning stage yet and they have already had to add a 7 hour nightban, seen BA express concerns, and well the project is getting pricier by the minute. The people who question the project are presently some of the more influential politicians there are. the Libdems leader, the former Labour leader (whos influence now can be questioned), a handful of Tory ministers (including the foreign secretary).
In short it will be a long process, expensive process, that in the end will produce what? A runway that will be subjected to more and more rules and politically imposed regulations aiming to reduce its footprint.
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LHRApproach
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:25 pm

Heathrow is fairly quiet from 8pm onwards already. Given that plenty of European airports close at 10pm there just isn't the same demand for flights leaving Heathrow at times that can't get into Europe. If course there are a few domestic and Asian flights that leave late.

The offer to restrict flights is not really much of an offer given that it effectively happens already. Clearly Heathrow doesn't want to restrict the disruptive but money making early morning Asian and North American arrivals. If they were to actually be honest about this and say no arrivals before 7.00 am then there might be a bit of progress.

As it is the location is not ideal and chances of compromise are unlikely. The we were here first argument just makes me think of badly behaved children appointing blame on the basis of who started it. There was a recent campaign to allow night clubs to operate on a basis of being there first and it was rejected as people have the right to a quiet life.

I'm fairly local and in favour of a well run major airport but most locals couldn't really care for being able to connect North Americans to Asia
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:29 pm

scotron11 wrote:
itisi wrote:
Tell those living near the airport to bugger off. I'm sure 99% moved there after there was any form of airport there anyway!!!

You move next to an airport then expert it to be quiet....


Totally agree 100%. I remember when DFW was 1st built. There was practically nothing around the airport. Look at it now!


Folks in Grapevine have been complaining for years. Likely why the 8th runway will never be built.
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slvrblt
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:35 pm

You know, I just don't get it about the noise. I'm not trying to be nasty to you Londoners, this is just my own observation. I've lived next door to MIA since the days of propliners, and through the jet age. If it were allowed, I could easily have walked from my front door, across the runways, to the closest terminal building in under 10 minutes. I never found the airplane noise distracting and it certainly didn't wake me up. The old 727's, DC9's, and BAC-111's were loud, but I remember noticing the prop sounds more! With the modern jets, you hardly notice them at all. But honestly...... you get used to the sounds. Most of my neighbors are the same...we hear the planes, but it doesn't disturb our sleep.
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:01 pm

AmbroseRPM wrote:
Look at what happens at SYD where you have planes diverted and not able to take off due to the curfew. It would be a bad idea for LHR.


SYD is what came to my mind too. Every now and then you hear of an aircraft that is literally crossing the threshold when it has to divert because the clock just ticked over 23:00, so the tyres cannot touch the pavement. That creates a hell of a lot more noise than just letting it land. Then there are all the aircraft that divert to MEL or BNE in-flight because they will miss curfew by a minute or two.

Some degree of common sense and flexibility is definitely needed.
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skipness1E
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:56 pm

The specifics of this are that some long haul lands before 6am. Would it make much difference to land after 6am? None whatsoever as this is part of the third runway expansion. It's a tiny number

BA 58 04:45 CPT LHR T3
BA 32 04:45 HKG LHR T5
VS 207 04:55 HKG LHR T3
BA 16 04:55 SIN LHR T5
BA 28 04:55 HKG LHR T5
BA 74 04:55 LOS LHR T5
CX 251 05:00 HKG LHR T3
BA 212 05:00 BOS LHR T5
BA 12 05:15 SIN LHR T5
BA 56 05:25 JNB LHR T5
BA 262 05:25 RUH LHR T5
BA 78 05:30 ACC LHR T3
MH 2 05:35 KUL LHR T4
BA 34 05:35 KUL LHR T5
SQ 322 05:55 SIN LHR T2
UA 918 05:55 IAD LHR T2
WY 103 05:55 MCT LHR T4

There's also 3 Saudia's per week in there before 6am too, but non daily so omited. All of these flights could be accomodated after 6am in an expanded LHR with 3 runways and still make connections. A win-win issue IMHO, expand LHR and keep the noise down til 6am.
 
skipness1E
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:00 am

uta999 wrote:
Heathrow should be open 24 hours and when winds allow, early arrivals should land on easterly, and departures westerly. They should also route aircraft where possible, outside the M25 during night operations, thus avoiding flying over central and west London. There is no reason why the two runways cannot operate in opposing directions (at night), being a mile apart.

So Slough and Windsor don't get a night's sleep? Thr runways are already rotated each week to share the pain of the early arrivals, literally no informed person is asking to have a 24/7 operation at LHR, the market won't support it for the pain it would cause.
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:00 am

slvrblt wrote:
You know, I just don't get it about the noise. I'm not trying to be nasty to you Londoners, this is just my own observation. I've lived next door to MIA since the days of propliners, and through the jet age. If it were allowed, I could easily have walked from my front door, across the runways, to the closest terminal building in under 10 minutes. I never found the airplane noise distracting and it certainly didn't wake me up. The old 727's, DC9's, and BAC-111's were loud, but I remember noticing the prop sounds more! With the modern jets, you hardly notice them at all. But honestly...... you get used to the sounds. Most of my neighbors are the same...we hear the planes, but it doesn't disturb our sleep.


I can agree with this - however some people cannot stand the noise of planes and it can make people quite ill with lack of sleep. However I am underneath MAN (Yes a little different to LHR and MIA) and you get use to it - it becomes nature.
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:15 am

skipness1E wrote:
The specifics of this are that some long haul lands before 6am. Would it make much difference to land after 6am? None whatsoever as this is part of the third runway expansion. It's a tiny number

BA 58 04:45 CPT LHR T3
BA 32 04:45 HKG LHR T5
VS 207 04:55 HKG LHR T3
BA 16 04:55 SIN LHR T5
BA 28 04:55 HKG LHR T5
BA 74 04:55 LOS LHR T5
CX 251 05:00 HKG LHR T3
BA 212 05:00 BOS LHR T5
BA 12 05:15 SIN LHR T5
BA 56 05:25 JNB LHR T5
BA 262 05:25 RUH LHR T5
BA 78 05:30 ACC LHR T3
MH 2 05:35 KUL LHR T4
BA 34 05:35 KUL LHR T5
SQ 322 05:55 SIN LHR T2
UA 918 05:55 IAD LHR T2
WY 103 05:55 MCT LHR T4

There's also 3 Saudia's per week in there before 6am too, but non daily so omited. All of these flights could be accomodated after 6am in an expanded LHR with 3 runways and still make connections. A win-win issue IMHO, expand LHR and keep the noise down til 6am.

Add QF9 to your list from today, which arrives at 5:05am from PER.

And if I remember LHR only has 20-min buffer between 0600 and 0620 (to accommodate late-running morning flights or early-arriving TATLs) and then full blown into a full schedule for the rest of the day. It's not like you can easily accommodate *as you wish*, especially given the 3rd runway won't be built anytime soon.

Michael
 
AApilot2b
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:33 am

They should stop all road traffic in and around the city as well. :cheeky: A truck or bus driving by one’s house makes more noise than a modern commercial airliner overhead.
 
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:02 am

YIMBY wrote:
parapente wrote:
Except the normal landing path to Heathrow starts right over the middle of London.Any person especially children should have the right to 7 hours interrupted sleep if possible.My concern is more about the x thousand excemptions that are allowed (yes the airline pays a bit more).It only takes one aircraft landing at 4.30 to wake people up.So whatever total quiet time is agreed it should be mandatory so that period is guaranteed.


Actually adults should have the right to 8 hours interrupted sleep and children up to 10 hours.

If the noise really prevents children to sleep, the ban should be from 21 to 7 o'clock. A better solution might be to move elsewhere or build robust houses with double windows (one thin and other thick) that prevent the noise entering bedrooms. That has been done elsewhere.


Just curious here, if it is a right that people should get that many of hours of sleep at night, then who is responsible for enforcing that right? Along with that, who or what should be limited to see that right is not infringed upon? Since it is a right, then what changes in society need to be made so that right is respected and allowed to be exercised everywhere?
 
Arion640
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:08 am

Airliners will only get quieter over time, the 787 is extremely quiet and this will only continue. BA's 747 are the only older generation of long haul aircraft operating at Heathrow now in great numbers. These will be gone in a few years.

I live by a railway line in the UK (used by old rattly british trains) and have lived near one for 20 years. You just get used to it.

And the politicians, the only ones that really care are the ones where the airport is in/near their constituency. The vast majority of MP's outside of London give their full backing as they realise the economic benefits.

Any proposed full ban will obviously have an affect on BA. It's there main hub so they'd have little in what to do about it. 7 hours is way too much in my opinion.
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TC957
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:20 am

Spend any time plane watching at the Myrtle Avenue green and the din the constant traffic on the A30 creates is way more than landing airliners.
 
andymartin
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:40 am

I should imagine for people living in the cesspits otherwise known as Hounslow, Feltham, Slough etc, the barely noticeable aircraft noise is the least of their issues.
 
rutankrd
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:56 am

Copied from another site to basically same debate

Make Heathrow 24 hour mantra and that would be a simple solution is an utter red herring.

These days no one would want or choose to depart to anywhere at 3.30 am period it just ain’t happening !
It’s no longer 1973 and flying on some no mark charter to Palma or Rimini . Passenger expectations have radically changed

Indeed few want or choose to depart at 06.30 right now!

However you do realise contrary to popular Anet and Dryed fruit myth Heathrow is already 24 hour although heavily slot constrained between 11.00 and 06.00 which as a local resident provides at least a tiny respite.

There are actually around 18 slots available mostly used and available before 6am each night used by early long haul arrivals.

I will tell you the Boston/Hong Kong depending on season having been first for many years now and what ever operates it ain’t quiet at 04.40 !

Given UK geography - long haul and inter European travel preferences frankly don’t lead to demands for departures after 11.00 or arrivals much before the current 04.40 time frame

UK isn’t the Middle East where the time frame for those transits do mean stupid o’clock operations.

We are on the edge of the Eastern Atlantic Heathrow is the largest US landing point in Europe.
Major American airports are also night restricted and those late evening departures Boston excepted always will arrive around 6 am and after.
From Asia it’s much the same for overnight flight although many from this area arrive in Europe late afternoon.

The only potential beneficiaries of any slots in the current heavily restricted time frame could be a few freighters, however boxes couldn’t care less where they enter the country - Stansted provides more than sufficient capacity for those today .

A genuine legally enforced curfew is inevitable as a cost for that third runway and an extra 140,000 to 160,000 annual runway movements that brings.
 
pandanko677
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:21 am

Why is noise such an issue in Europe? In the USA there are much busier airports and very little, if any noise restrictions/curfews.
 
rutankrd
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:46 am

Pandanko677 plenty US airports are night slot restricted particularly on the heavily populated eastern seaboard.

Oh and the geography and population density arround so many European cities inevitably lead to airports , railways and indeed highways cutting right through residential areas.

In London in particular and in reference to ITISI in particular this don’t live near an airport if you can’t handle noise is an utter nonesence.

Within this metropolis it’s completely surrounded by 6 civil airports and 5 commercial/military corporate jet airfields and countless general aviation aerodromes -Oh and a central Helicopter pad so its virtually impossible to avoid low flying aircraft any where you go !

Yes transport noise has a huge environmental impact and methods of mitigation as a result are major political issues.
 
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scbriml
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:49 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Add QF9 to your list from today, which arrives at 5:05am from PER.


From FR24 it's estimated arrival will be just after 4am (not forgetting we're switching to BST tonight otherwise it would be just after 3am!) :crazy:
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LTCM
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:17 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
MillwallSean wrote:
To make the debate slightly more realistic, can those who comment familiarise themselves with London?
It becomes quite comical when comments such as the airport was there first are used. Hint, it wasn't. Not one bit. This is London, not a greenfield development on some US prairie.

Example: Sidcup the village next to Heathrow is from the 13th century and thats almost the norm for villages around the area.
And for anyone that's been at Buckingham Palace, watching the change of guards, a constant murmur can be heard from the sky. A quick look up would identify the murmur as coming from airplanes on their approach path to Heathrow.
On the other side of Heathrow to the west (where there are less housing and not an intensified city like London) sits some of the most expensive estates in the UK. Here you find, for example, Windsor Castle, occupied by the royals for 600 years.
Someone mentioned Brentford and I say that's quite typical for what a lot of areas in West/NW parts of London is like.

You speak of comical, yet post babble like this? :roll:

Tell us about all these 600yr-old people living around the airport.
Or better yet, tell us of those who were old enough to buy a house in the '40s, still living there now.

Ridiculous.
The point stands: the OVERWHELMING majority of people living in proximity to that airport were either not born, or not property owners/inheritors, until long after the airport's presence was apparent.


So what if they moved to the area after the airport was there. Seven hours of quiet to sleep is a basic human right that cannot be taken away. I only wish the US was pushing the issue as hard as Europe is.
 
sirloin
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:29 pm

FYI, I live right under the approach path to MCO and unless it's one of those twice-a-year F/A-18s that ends up here, the noise is hardly anything that would interrupt sleep. I can hear the planes coming in low and really, with even a modest amount of sound insulation, it's not bad at all.

Besides, aircraft are only getting quieter.

Now, I've seen some of those photos of 747s and A380s coming in even lower right over those houses, and I get that that's more severe than what we get here.
 
Samrnpage
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:58 pm

https://plus.google.com/+TopFelya/posts/gvDLV6kjjAB For those who dont understand why the noise is an issue - I agree though, dont move there if you dont like it.
 
rutankrd
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:06 pm

Samrnpage again where do you think people in Greater London about 8 million of us should move to the avoid aviation generated noise pollution?

Refer above 6 civil airports 5 military or business jet airfields and countless general aviation aerodromes ?
 
ikramerica
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:23 pm

I could see a soft curfew on arriving flights like at BUR but the hard curfew like SYD is asinine.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
vahancrazy
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:08 pm

Imho, the curfew should be dB based: If an aircraft model is too noisy, it cannot operate from 23 to 6.
 
rutankrd
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:49 pm

Vahancrazy that IS already a coefficient of the current to use ikramerica soft curfew concept that exists today.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:27 pm

LTCM wrote:
So what if they moved to the area after the airport was there.

Then they should have a mitigation of claim, that's what.
Now, if only we could fine people for being too stupid to understand cause&effect-- that'd be nice.


pandanko677 wrote:
Why is noise such an issue in Europe? In the USA there are much busier airports and very little, if any noise restrictions/curfews.

Dunno about "much busier" since the USA only has three airports busier than LHR...

...but one of the few things the USA gets right, is if you bring yourself to the nuisance (i.e. know an airport's there, but still move there anyway) then you, for the most part, don't get to whine about it.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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mercure1
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:45 pm

A hard curfew seems quite logical and in line with practices at many other major European airports (AMS, FRA, ORY, ZRH, etc)

Airline industry needs to learn to become a better neighbor and in return for expansion at LHR should willingly give up night ops in return.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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bombayduck
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:00 pm

People who move close to an airport, should realise there will be noise. It is no good moaning about the noise, because a lot of people that moan will use the airport just like anyone else. It is the same as when people move to the country side for the peace and quiet, and then moan about the birds singing in the morning. And then complain that they are having their sleep pattern disturbed because of the birds singing. I live close to a railway track have been for over 30 years, you get used to it. Also live about fifteen miles due east of Heathrow, sometimes if it is too quiet I have to check to see if they have changed to 09's.
 
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spinotter
Posts: 518
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:31 pm

AApilot2b wrote:
They should stop all road traffic in and around the city as well. :cheeky: A truck or bus driving by one’s house makes more noise than a modern commercial airliner overhead.


Great idea. All private vehicles should be banned, and everyone should walk, cycle, or take public transport underground. Would be a great world.
 
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lightsaber
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:37 pm

bombayduck wrote:
People who move close to an airport, should realise there will be noise. It is no good moaning about the noise, because a lot of people that moan will use the airport just like anyone else. It is the same as when people move to the country side for the peace and quiet, and then moan about the birds singing in the morning. And then complain that they are having their sleep pattern disturbed because of the birds singing. I live close to a railway track have been for over 30 years, you get used to it. Also live about fifteen miles due east of Heathrow, sometimes if it is too quiet I have to check to see if they have changed to 09's.

My favorite is people who move to the countryside who complain about the wildlife eating their plants. :)

LHR was a lot louder in the 1980s. Should there be improvement? Yes. Perhaps a rational point system on noise. Generate below a threshold, no points per takeoff or landing.
Then 1 point each

Oh wait, LHR already has such a system. Use it!

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Jetty
Posts: 929
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Re: LHR - proposed night time ban, 7hrs

Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:11 am

mercure1 wrote:
A hard curfew seems quite logical and in line with practices at many other major European airports (AMS, FRA, ORY, ZRH, etc)

That’s definitly not true for AMS.

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