TC957
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VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:58 pm

Last flight 12 Jan 2019. Bit of a surprise to me, and no doubt a blow for Virgin Holidays.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:09 pm

Surprise certainly, thought that was a good honeymoon route. CUN is a bit more down market than the Caribbean but still very popular with the Brits, wonder what lays behind this?
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NW747-400
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:19 pm

I wonder if bookings have slowed down with all of the negative news coming from CUN.
 
Cunard
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:19 pm

Very surprising although competition with TUI to Cancun might have affected loads and Virgin Holidays have suffered from the competition for what might be a slightly declining market as holiday makers to the region look elsewhere for their long haul holidays, it's not as if the actual resort of Cancun is idealic but to be honest I don't think that the recent events in Cancun had anything to do with this announcement.

If any Caribbean destination was to be dropped by VS I would have expected it to have been Tobago as I can't understand how the island can maintain two airlines flying to LGW.
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TC957
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:30 pm

More of a surprise that VS couldn't see fit to continue CUN by using one of the A332's they just got.
Wonder if Norwegian will be interested in CUN ?
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:17 pm

Wouldn't hate for this route to be transitioned to TPA.

TPA has been looking to get more UK flights. CUN in a bit of down market with some of it's own issues currently and TPA seems ripe .
 
TC957
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:52 pm

TPA gets a lot of DL flights from VS's US cities that they serve. VS might upset their paymasters by doing a direct TPA flight.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:54 pm

If it did VS would be head to head with BA at TPA, MCO and MIA, hmmm.
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JamesCousins
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:04 pm

Damn, seems a weird move to me. Every seat in those 747's are filled in the summer, I went to CUN in the summer this year from LGW with Virgin and know a few friends who did the same...

Why wouldn't they just downsize this route to an A330 if the demand was falling off. They've operated a 747 on the route for the longest time...
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:20 pm

Cunard wrote:
Very surprising although competition with TUI to Cancun might have affected loads and Virgin Holidays have suffered from the competition for what might be a slightly declining market as holiday makers to the region look elsewhere for their long haul holidays, it's not as if the actual resort of Cancun is idealic but to be honest I don't think that the recent events in Cancun had anything to do with this announcement.

If any Caribbean destination was to be dropped by VS I would have expected it to have been Tobago as I can't understand how the island can maintain two airlines flying to LGW.


Both carriers serving TAB from LGW are likely highly subsidized. CUN with its much stronger tourism market probably doesn't feel compelled to throw those kinds of incentives at VS.
 
TC957
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:30 pm

In VS's latest statement on their 2017 loss, they said passengers numbers were slightly down on 2016. Well, hardly surprising if they cancel popular flights done by full 747's and downsize their fleet on so many other routes.
I expect BA will upguage frequency to CUN come next winter. TUI most likely too.
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:44 am

Thomas Cook Airlines (MT) also operate LGW/CUN, although I'm not sure if that's a seasonal service or year round (Airbus A330 operated I believe)

Ben
 
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OA940
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:25 am

NW747-400 wrote:
I wonder if bookings have slowed down with all of the negative news coming from CUN.


What news?
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Jerry123
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:51 am

Possibly a side effect of their 787s problems. Maybe the aircraft is needed elsewhere? Also could Virgin Holidays just use another carrier?
 
APYu
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:53 am

TC957 wrote:
Last flight 12 Jan 2019. Bit of a surprise to me, and no doubt a blow for Virgin Holidays.

Virgin holidays will have been involved in the decision.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
76er
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:57 am

OA940 wrote:
NW747-400 wrote:
I wonder if bookings have slowed down with all of the negative news coming from CUN.


What news?


Ditto. What happened?
 
 
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chepos
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:17 am

Been there many times (working and for leisure), while CUN is not my favorite I have never felt unsafe there. From what I see, still tourist all over the place and packed flights. Surprised VS has a hard time making CUN work, sun seekers still flock to Mexican beach resorts.
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skipness1E
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:21 am

The 787 issues will still mean 747s needed to cover flights this time next year? Routes SHOULD come and go as performance changes. LGW-NAS was dropped as was SJU (operated for 2 winters). BA also dropped MBJ and VS KIN to maintain profits. Any decision would not be a surprise to Virgin Holidays either.
 
lat41
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:20 pm

Dominica Republic is strong competition as a package tour destination and may be eating into CUN the way CUN grabbed business from Jamaica years ago. Also news items about Mexico getting more dangerous for tourists are getting harder to dismiss and must figure into this as well.
 
texdravid
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:56 pm

Mexican drug violence. End of story.
Also, CUN has gone down market over
the past 20 years. CUN is now a down market lower middle class jaunt for people traveling on airlines like Spirit and barely owning a passport.

Drunk dirty place filled with all inclusive hotels filled with college kids from Springfield Missou-rah.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
SCQ83
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:19 pm

texdravid wrote:
Mexican drug violence. End of story.
Also, CUN has gone down market over
the past 20 years. CUN is now a down market lower middle class jaunt for people traveling on airlines like Spirit and barely owning a passport.

Drunk dirty place filled with all inclusive hotels filled with college kids from Springfield Missou-rah.


From Europe I suspect the ME3 and their cheap flights to Asia have a lot to do with this, as well as patterns in what a holiday means (more "active" "millennial" holidays VS being 1 week on the beach drinking).

Spain is a perfect example of this, because for obvious economic and linguistic reasons it has always had a lot of links with CUN. 15 years ago a tropical holiday in Spain meant CUN or PUJ. Going to Asia was expensive and time-consuming; an all-in package to Thailand could be easily 2 or 3 times more expensive than to the Dominican Republic or Mexico.

Then the Internet and the ME3 came. Cheap fares to Thailand (and lately to other destinations like Bali or Philippines) and Internet hotel booking made the rest. Also those places are safer, cheaper, have a cultural edge and are more Instagrammable. So people started taking holidays in Thailand or Indonesia. LEVEL chopped BCN-PUJ just after 1 year.

Maybe also in the case of CUN and PUJ, there is more pressure from Latin American middle class vacationers; so if hotels and services become more expensive because of this demand, those European tourists can be moved to Asia or Africa at the same flight cost.
 
ZuluTime
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:50 pm

In VS's latest statement on their 2017 loss, they said passengers numbers were slightly down on 2016. Well, hardly surprising if they cancel popular flights done by full 747's and downsize their fleet on so many other routes


You can still be running a full flight which is loss-making. Yields, not volumes, are the problem on Cancun I fear, and VS has never made good headway against the TUI programme. Add to the fact it's only 2 x weekly in winter and that's pretty inefficient from a crew cost perspective versus TUI's daily services from all UK points into CUN which enable them to rotate crews daily. VS also have to fly this with a 3-pilot crew due to industrial rules where TUI and TC both fly with two.

I would be very surprised if this capacity isn't redeployed elsewhere in the VS network. TPA has to be highly likely, RSW an outside chance unless VS decide to join the party on LGW-FLL which I doubt given two other airlines on the route.
 
dcajet
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:31 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
and are more Instagrammable. So people started taking holidays in Thailand or Indonesia.


What exactly makes SE Asia more "Instagrammable" (??) than Cancun?
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
flight152
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:44 pm

dcajet wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
and are more Instagrammable. So people started taking holidays in Thailand or Indonesia.


What exactly makes SE Asia more "Instagrammable" (??) than Cancun?

You must not be on instagram.
 
SCQ83
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:50 pm

dcajet wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
and are more Instagrammable. So people started taking holidays in Thailand or Indonesia.


What exactly makes SE Asia more "Instagrammable" (??) than Cancun?


Only talking about Thailand: Ko Phi Phi, street Asian food, elephants, different alphabet and people, Buddhist temples, boat markets, Blade Runner style images of Bangkok...

I know in Cancun you can take a trip to Chichen Itza... but it is not the same.

Btw "Instagrammable" has 1,670,000 results in Google :) so far from an "invented" word.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/in ... 48706.html
 
SCQ83
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:59 pm

Not to mention the ME3 are also very instagrammable. :) An Emirates or Qatar flight is way sexier than a Virgin or TUI fly.

A few hours lost in DOH or DXB? No problem. Take the metro to the Burj Khalifa... that is Instagram 101. That big teddy bear in new DOH airport? That thing is there just for the sake of selfies and Instagram.
 
dcajet
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:05 pm

I know what instagrammable means. I just am not sure I agree with your idea, why would the Maya culture be less worthy than parts of Thailand?

Following your theory, then the Kardashians are a cut above others than have contributed way more than those girls, except that they don't live their life in social media.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Cunard
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:38 pm

OA940 wrote:
NW747-400 wrote:
I wonder if bookings have slowed down with all of the negative news coming from CUN.


What news?


It's all well and done being an aviation enthusiast but if I was you I suggest that you keep up with current affairs on the news.

Amongst other incidents that are in the links provided by other posters I take it that your not aware of the bomb related terrorist attack at the ferry terminal in Cancun last week injuring several people!
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JamesCousins
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:07 pm

texdravid wrote:
Mexican drug violence. End of story.
Also, CUN has gone down market over
the past 20 years. CUN is now a down market lower middle class jaunt for people traveling on airlines like Spirit and barely owning a passport.

Drunk dirty place filled with all inclusive hotels filled with college kids from Springfield Missou-rah.


What a load of drivel. The main all inclusive resorts in CUN are VERY expensive and very nice. They've also invested a lot in the tourist-y areas - it's far from a cheap place to go on holiday in most resorts.
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY
 
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:35 pm

No surprise really a lot of bad press in the UK/Ireland media have meant tourists are moving away from Mexico. First it was the Zika scare and recently the crime. I never did understand the appeal of CUN myself but each to their own. I wonder how long BA will keep it going. The direct flights from Ireland in the Summer have had to be slashed by around an average of EUR600 to try get rid of the seats. I do wonder if TUI will operate it again in 2019. VS picked up quite a lot of Irish passengers DUB Via LGW and that has had an impact too as the numbers have drastically dropped.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:43 pm

Would love to see them into RSW. I know Eurowings blah is trying to fill Air Berlins longtime role here, with apparent service to DUS/CGN and MUC from what the airport signage says but VS to LGW would be a sure fire winner, and the brits would love direct access to the best beaches in the state.
Hotel inventory scheduled and already under construction is getting primed and ready for them.
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PRGEC
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:04 pm

Well I was in Cancun in 2015 and I can tell you: The city is so overrated.
Watching people sell drugs by the doors of clubs, alcohol to kids and trying to make you pay for a bill which is not yours really suprised me. There was even a Brazilian missing over there who was then found dead in the woods, murdered by some gang.
On the other hand, the cultural tourism is really cool, the Mayan cities and this stuff. The beaches are just the average and can be really dirty some times.
Libertas quæ sera tamen
 
LAXLHR
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:57 am

Brickell305 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Very surprising although competition with TUI to Cancun might have affected loads and Virgin Holidays have suffered from the competition for what might be a slightly declining market as holiday makers to the region look elsewhere for their long haul holidays, it's not as if the actual resort of Cancun is idealic but to be honest I don't think that the recent events in Cancun had anything to do with this announcement.

If any Caribbean destination was to be dropped by VS I would have expected it to have been Tobago as I can't understand how the island can maintain two airlines flying to LGW.


Both carriers serving TAB from LGW are likely highly subsidized. CUN with its much stronger tourism market probably doesn't feel compelled to throw those kinds of incentives at VS.


LGW-POS is a heavy VFR route! A lot of "Trini" traffic. The West Indies - the UK/Europe overall is quite VFR heavy (with many connecting through the US).

VS/DL ;-) can still get passengers to CUN via ATL.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
texdravid
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:17 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
texdravid wrote:
Mexican drug violence. End of story.
Also, CUN has gone down market over
the past 20 years. CUN is now a down market lower middle class jaunt for people traveling on airlines like Spirit and barely owning a passport.

Drunk dirty place filled with all inclusive hotels filled with college kids from Springfield Missou-rah.


What a load of drivel. The main all inclusive resorts in CUN are VERY expensive and very nice. They've also invested a lot in the tourist-y areas - it's far from a cheap place to go on holiday in most resorts.


Not quite. The drug war is real and violence has crept into the tourist areas, not just outside of the zone.

Sure there’s plenty of upscale hotels. But the vast majority of violence is not there, but sound the nightclubs where the tourists and young are at night.

Perception is reality, and reality is that it’s not just a perception problem.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
texdravid
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:27 pm

Also the latest problem(s) with the Mayan coast area are the shoddy hotels themselves. In 2010 there was a gas main break and now there was a family from Iowa that died due to carbon monoxide poisoning in Tulum.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
Brickell305
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:46 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Very surprising although competition with TUI to Cancun might have affected loads and Virgin Holidays have suffered from the competition for what might be a slightly declining market as holiday makers to the region look elsewhere for their long haul holidays, it's not as if the actual resort of Cancun is idealic but to be honest I don't think that the recent events in Cancun had anything to do with this announcement.

If any Caribbean destination was to be dropped by VS I would have expected it to have been Tobago as I can't understand how the island can maintain two airlines flying to LGW.


Both carriers serving TAB from LGW are likely highly subsidized. CUN with its much stronger tourism market probably doesn't feel compelled to throw those kinds of incentives at VS.


LGW-POS is a heavy VFR route! A lot of "Trini" traffic. The West Indies - the UK/Europe overall is quite VFR heavy (with many connecting through the US).

VS/DL ;-) can still get passengers to CUN via ATL.
LGW-POS is a VFR route. LGW-TAB is a tourism route.
 
guyanam
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:22 am

LAXLHR wrote:
LGW-POS is a heavy VFR route! A lot of "Trini" traffic. The West Indies - the UK/Europe overall is quite VFR heavy (with many connecting through the US).

VS/DL ;-) can still get passengers to CUN via ATL.



BA's LGW POS is actually more of a business than a VFR heavy route. It only works because it includes a UVF stop with its leisure travel. I think over 50% of the passengers disembark there.

Even LGW KIN only runs 3X weekly, this being the only UK Caribbean route which I think is mainly VFR. This isn't like France/Netherlands where the ties to their Caribbean territories are closer and migration more recent. Most 35 y/o Caribbean Brits are born to people who were either also born in the UK, or who arrived from the Caribbean as kids. Increasing numbers in fact don't even identify themselves to be "Caribbean". So family ties are not as what one will see among Caribbean origin people living in Paris or Amsterdam. POS VFR travel is from MIA, FLL, JFK and YYZ.
 
planeguy
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:34 am

Instead of CUN, could VS make CTG work?
 
Cunard
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:45 am

LAXLHR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Very surprising although competition with TUI to Cancun might have affected loads and Virgin Holidays have suffered from the competition for what might be a slightly declining market as holiday makers to the region look elsewhere for their long haul holidays, it's not as if the actual resort of Cancun is idealic but to be honest I don't think that the recent events in Cancun had anything to do with this announcement.

If any Caribbean destination was to be dropped by VS I would have expected it to have been Tobago as I can't understand how the island can maintain two airlines flying to LGW.


Both carriers serving TAB from LGW are likely highly subsidized. CUN with its much stronger tourism market probably doesn't feel compelled to throw those kinds of incentives at VS.


LGW-POS is a heavy VFR route! A lot of "Trini" traffic. The West Indies - the UK/Europe overall is quite VFR heavy (with many connecting through the US).

VS/DL ;-) can still get passengers to CUN via ATL.


I was referring to Tobago not Port of Spain!

I am fully aware of the difference between both of those destinations having been to them, although Tobago attracts the tourists it's not a huge market and it doesn't have that many hotels that cater to the European market in comparison to other islands in the Caribbean and and the VFR market is also small.

Considering that VS had stopped LGW to TOB a few years ago only to recommence it fairly recently that's why I mentioned Tobago as being more of an obvious destination for VS to cease flying to.

I agree with others regarding Cancun, I've been once but never again. Although I found it clean the beaches were nothing special regardless of the azur blue waters but what peeved me more than anything else was being phestered all the time by the locals trying to sell me 'Charlie', the amount of times that I had to say 'no thanks I'll stick to the weed' :-)
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Cunard
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:58 am

planeguy wrote:
Instead of CUN, could VS make CTG work?


The Colombian city of Cartagena is beautiful especially the old town and I enjoyed visiting but there is no demand from the UK for VS to operate a LGW to CTG route although it would be an interesting choice.

Cartegena has a lot to offer with a beautiful city beach, lots of good quality hotels and restaurants with a thriving night life but the destination is mainly aimed at the Hispanic market and is very popular with travelers from Spanish speaking countries and only until fairly recently that it has been on the radar of North Americans.

VS could always try a couple of weekly flights to St Vincent if they wanted to add another Caribbean destination to replace Cancun although to be honest if the island does eventually gain a link to LGW I should imagine that it will be with British Airways.
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TC957
Topic Author
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:31 am

LAXLHR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Very surprising although competition with TUI to Cancun might have affected loads and Virgin Holidays have suffered from the competition for what might be a slightly declining market as holiday makers to the region look elsewhere for their long haul holidays, it's not as if the actual resort of Cancun is idealic but to be honest I don't think that the recent events in Cancun had anything to do with this announcement.

If any Caribbean destination was to be dropped by VS I would have expected it to have been Tobago as I can't understand how the island can maintain two airlines flying to LGW.


Both carriers serving TAB from LGW are likely highly subsidized. CUN with its much stronger tourism market probably doesn't feel compelled to throw those kinds of incentives at VS.


LGW-POS is a heavy VFR route! A lot of "Trini" traffic. The West Indies - the UK/Europe overall is quite VFR heavy (with many connecting through the US).

VS/DL ;-) can still get passengers to CUN via ATL.

And have the agro of changing in the US ? No, sorry VS, you've lost all your passengers to BA & TUI here, and MT to a lesser extent.
 
ACDC8
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:44 am

Are there any other carriers reducing or cutting service to CUN?

If not, one would conclude that CUN isn’t having a problem in attracting tourists
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Cunard
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Re: VS dropping LGW - CUN

Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:10 pm

TUI announced their summer 2019 program today Monday 26 March and their are several increases from ex UK airports to Cancun for next year.
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