EChid
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:00 pm

golfradio wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
The Boeing frenzy at AC seems to be quieting a bit, 27 Airbus birds remain at Rouge and about 80 at AC mainline with 4 more being added. AC recently added a few A321's to Rouge and delayed retirement of some A320's at mainline while it cancelled some 787 options. With the added 330's, I feel AC will next add some 321's perhaps the NEO's for TATL.


I always thought it was a bad move to go all Boeing. While the 787 makes sense, the Max switch made no sense at all. They should have remained with Airbus/BBD for the short and medium haul.


Again, AC didn't purposefully go 'all Boeing'. It's not like they sat in their boardrooms and thought "nah, we don't like Airbus right now just because." This isn't a high school drama. The numbers simply fell in the favour of Boeing, especially for the MAX. Rumour has it that they were very prepared to go with the Neo but Boeing made them an offer they couldn't refuse, which partially included the purchase of unwanted E90s from AC (an a/c type AC is *dying* to get rid of). It's not like this group of bros having a tiff, there are entire teams dedicated to running the cost-benefit analysis and Boeing wanted to win the narrowbody bid badly enough that it clearly made an extremely competitive offer. I'm not a fan of the MAX, it is decidedly inferior in several ways and the FAs are also (rumoured) not to be fans of them either, but there was logic behind AC's decision and it enabled them to get a great price.

The 787s are a great product for them as well, and the 777s work great for them. Airbus had no alternative offer them at the time.

The reason we have A330s and A321s? The numbers fell in their favour. It goes both ways.

Let's please not turn this A330-related thread into an Airbus vs. Boeing thread.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:15 pm

For those lamenting the lack of AC Airbus planes in the near future, don't forget the 45 A220's coming online beginning late 2019. I know us proud Canadians are having a hard time digesting the CS to A220 reality but it means lots more Airbus planes AC for many years to come.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:44 pm

golfradio wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
The Boeing frenzy at AC seems to be quieting a bit, 27 Airbus birds remain at Rouge and about 80 at AC mainline with 4 more being added. AC recently added a few A321's to Rouge and delayed retirement of some A320's at mainline while it cancelled some 787 options. With the added 330's, I feel AC will next add some 321's perhaps the NEO's for TATL.


I always thought it was a bad move to go all Boeing. While the 787 makes sense, the Max switch made no sense at all. They should have remained with Airbus/BBD for the short and medium haul.


Listening to their recent investor presentation, they specifically said that they really like the MAX-8, and the A321. It seems like they're interested in a mixed narrowbody fleet for the foreseeable future. AC is big enough to have both.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:59 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
Listening to their recent investor presentation, they specifically said that they really like the MAX-8, and the A321. It seems like they're interested in a mixed narrowbody fleet for the foreseeable future. AC is big enough to have both.


The MAX 8 and A321neo are the strongest members of their respective families and highly complementary. Any airline big enough to have reasonable fleets of both would be making an entirely sound decision to operate both.

And, to return to the topic of this thread, exactly the same is true for low-capital-cost used 333s and long-range, high-utilization 787-9s.
 
golfradio
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:05 am

EChid wrote:
golfradio wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
The Boeing frenzy at AC seems to be quieting a bit, 27 Airbus birds remain at Rouge and about 80 at AC mainline with 4 more being added. AC recently added a few A321's to Rouge and delayed retirement of some A320's at mainline while it cancelled some 787 options. With the added 330's, I feel AC will next add some 321's perhaps the NEO's for TATL.


I always thought it was a bad move to go all Boeing. While the 787 makes sense, the Max switch made no sense at all. They should have remained with Airbus/BBD for the short and medium haul.


Again, AC didn't purposefully go 'all Boeing'. It's not like they sat in their boardrooms and thought "nah, we don't like Airbus right now just because." This isn't a high school drama. The numbers simply fell in the favour of Boeing, especially for the MAX. Rumour has it that they were very prepared to go with the Neo but Boeing made them an offer they couldn't refuse, which partially included the purchase of unwanted E90s from AC (an a/c type AC is *dying* to get rid of). It's not like this group of bros having a tiff, there are entire teams dedicated to running the cost-benefit analysis and Boeing wanted to win the narrowbody bid badly enough that it clearly made an extremely competitive offer. I'm not a fan of the MAX, it is decidedly inferior in several ways and the FAs are also (rumoured) not to be fans of them either, but there was logic behind AC's decision and it enabled them to get a great price.

The 787s are a great product for them as well, and the 777s work great for them. Airbus had no alternative offer them at the time.

The reason we have A330s and A321s? The numbers fell in their favour. It goes both ways.

Let's please not turn this A330-related thread into an Airbus vs. Boeing thread.


Oh please, spare me the lecture. I am not an 18 year old fanboy. We have been discussing this for over 4 years now and I am well aware of the details of the order.

AC should have ordered the 330neo. They could've wrangled for the slots of 320neo (delivery slots being one of the reasons for the switch to the max).

CS300, A320neo, A321neo, A330neo and the 787. Would've been the perfect fleet.
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EChid
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:11 am

golfradio wrote:
Oh please, spare me the lecture. I am not an 18 year old fanboy. We have been discussing this for over 4 years now and I am well aware of the details of the order.

AC should have ordered the 330neo. They could've wrangled for the slots of 320neo (delivery slots being one of the reasons for the switch to the max).

CS300, A320neo, A321neo, A330neo and the 787. Would've been the perfect fleet.


Evidently, you've been around for the 4 years of discussions but paid little attention to them. The A330neo and 787 are direct competitors, why would they have purchased *both*? The only reason they have the A330ceos is because they had them before the 787s and could add used ones cheaply, reducing overall costs compared to adding 787s. No company in their right mind would choose both, and the neo has proven decidedly unpopular. It's role has been to make the 787 cheaper, not sell in comparable volumes.

And your lovely fleet planning has not allowed for anything larger than the 787/A330 - which is also ridiculous for a global airline. AC does very well with their 77Ws, as much as I don't like them, and not operating them would be stupid when they're already in a position of having to fight for market share after years of being underdogs against the likes of BA, AF, LH, and CX on core routes. That's not even considering the fact that they have a major hub that's operating near or at capacity. They couldn't have even purchased the A350 if they had wanted to, given the fact that they needed replacements for their (inefficient, uncompetitive) A340s 14 years ago, not now.

As for the A320neo - it's done. Get over it. Yes, it would have been great, but for multiple reasons that were well thought-out and still appear to be very smart decisions, they didn't.

It's a good thing you aren't doing AC's fleet planning.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
matt
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:40 pm

seabosdca wrote:
And, to return to the topic of this thread..


And since we are back on topic ;) , what are the other routes the ex-TP/SQ A330-300s will be used on next summer (2019)?
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:45 pm

matt wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
And, to return to the topic of this thread..


And since we are back on topic ;) , what are the other routes the ex-TP/SQ A330-300s will be used on next summer (2019)?

IIRC YUL-ALG is the only other confirmed at this stage.

Michael
 
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:50 pm

golfradio wrote:
EChid wrote:
golfradio wrote:

I always thought it was a bad move to go all Boeing. While the 787 makes sense, the Max switch made no sense at all. They should have remained with Airbus/BBD for the short and medium haul.


Again, AC didn't purposefully go 'all Boeing'. It's not like they sat in their boardrooms and thought "nah, we don't like Airbus right now just because." This isn't a high school drama. The numbers simply fell in the favour of Boeing, especially for the MAX. Rumour has it that they were very prepared to go with the Neo but Boeing made them an offer they couldn't refuse, which partially included the purchase of unwanted E90s from AC (an a/c type AC is *dying* to get rid of). It's not like this group of bros having a tiff, there are entire teams dedicated to running the cost-benefit analysis and Boeing wanted to win the narrowbody bid badly enough that it clearly made an extremely competitive offer. I'm not a fan of the MAX, it is decidedly inferior in several ways and the FAs are also (rumoured) not to be fans of them either, but there was logic behind AC's decision and it enabled them to get a great price.

The 787s are a great product for them as well, and the 777s work great for them. Airbus had no alternative offer them at the time.

The reason we have A330s and A321s? The numbers fell in their favour. It goes both ways.

Let's please not turn this A330-related thread into an Airbus vs. Boeing thread.


Oh please, spare me the lecture. I am not an 18 year old fanboy. We have been discussing this for over 4 years now and I am well aware of the details of the order.

AC should have ordered the 330neo. They could've wrangled for the slots of 320neo (delivery slots being one of the reasons for the switch to the max).

CS300, A320neo, A321neo, A330neo and the 787. Would've been the perfect fleet.


According to you. On top of the economics remember Boeing was slightly tardy with its 787.... you think maybe that had something to do with making its package even more attractive?

The reason they’re getting used 330s is they’re cheap. A new 330neo would not be. Unless you’re footing the bill you’re “perfect” fleet is fantasy.
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matt
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:08 pm

Yes. We have:

    YUL-ALG (days 24567)
    YUL-DUB (days 246)
    YVR-DUB (days 1357)

Those two routes would require 2 A330s. If two more are to come, AC will find routes for them I imagine. More updates to come I imagine.
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
Thomaas
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:36 pm

matt wrote:
Yes. We have:

    YUL-ALG (days 24567)
    YUL-DUB (days 246)
    YVR-DUB (days 1357)

Those two routes would require 2 A330s. If two more are to come, AC will find routes for them I imagine. More updates to come I imagine.


Only 2 frames are set to arrive in the old SQ configuration, the other 2 will arrive refitted later in the year.
 
matt
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:29 pm

Thomaas wrote:
matt wrote:
Yes. We have:

    YUL-ALG (days 24567)
    YUL-DUB (days 246)
    YVR-DUB (days 1357)

Those two routes would require 2 A330s. If two more are to come, AC will find routes for them I imagine. More updates to come I imagine.


Only 2 frames are set to arrive in the old SQ configuration, the other 2 will arrive refitted later in the year.


Thanks for the information. I was not aware of that.
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leyland1989
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:30 pm

Will we see YOW-LHR being flown by A330 in late 2019 ?
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:50 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Both the 767s and the A333s are very comfy when not in 3-3-3 configuration..Rouge uses the 767s to ATH and Air Transat the A333s..and so does Delta with a mix of 763s/764s and A333s..I'd prefer them any day over EKs 773ER 3-4-3 seating..But still the questions remains what will AC replace the 767s with?Will some of the A333s move to Rouge division or will they replace them with some other leased type?


Just an educated guess but with only 6 AC 767's in mainline and 5 going in 2019, I would reckon the 4 added 333's will fill in the gap plus the MAX8's have already replaced some TATL like YHZ - LHR and I believe there are 2-3 787-9's still to be delivered.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:25 pm

leyland1989 wrote:
Will we see YOW-LHR being flown by A330 in late 2019 ?


I’d hazard a guess that the one remaining mainline 763 will operate YOW-LHR, or more specifically YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ until the end of the winter 2019-20 season and then will go 330 or 788 in summer 2020. I’d bet that YOW’s existing transatlantic routes will go 788 unless AC decide to reopen a 330 base at YYZ as AC for eons have had a daily 763 on Rapidair for both a) peak time of day pax demand and cargo and b) to rotate the 763 fleet.
 
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:54 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Both the 767s and the A333s are very comfy when not in 3-3-3 configuration..Rouge uses the 767s to ATH and Air Transat the A333s..and so does Delta with a mix of 763s/764s and A333s..I'd prefer them any day over EKs 773ER 3-4-3 seating..But still the questions remains what will AC replace the 767s with?Will some of the A333s move to Rouge division or will they replace them with some other leased type?


I agree. the 767 and A332/A333 have one of the most comfortable seating layouts. 767 with 2-3-2 is perfect and only 1 middle seat, and the A332/333 with 2-4-2. You'll only need to bother 1 person no matter where you are sitting.
 
leyland1989
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:24 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
leyland1989 wrote:
Will we see YOW-LHR being flown by A330 in late 2019 ?


I’d hazard a guess that the one remaining mainline 763 will operate YOW-LHR, or more specifically YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ until the end of the winter 2019-20 season and then will go 330 or 788 in summer 2020. I’d bet that YOW’s existing transatlantic routes will go 788 unless AC decide to reopen a 330 base at YYZ as AC for eons have had a daily 763 on Rapidair for both a) peak time of day pax demand and cargo and b) to rotate the 763 fleet.


It makes sense, and I had bought up the issues on YYZ not having an A330 base anymore, 788 seems to be more likely. Unless FRA goes all year round then it can incorporate the YUL-FRA leg to dispatch from YUL.

However, the 767 rapidair flight helps to clear out quite a lot of standbys for AC. I had flown this flight frequently, and it's usually full, even in J, I don't see it going anywhere.

As for cargo demand, there isn't much departing from YOW. Most national/translantic express mail or parcels are usually routed through YUL by truck.
Airbus:319,320,332,333,343,345,346,359,388
Boeing: 717,734,738,753,74R,742,743,744,74E,748,763,772,773,77E,77L,77W,788,789
Misc:AT5,CN1,CNJ,CR2,CR7,CR9,DH8,ER4,ERD,E70,E75,E90,M11,S20
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:12 pm

leyland1989 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
leyland1989 wrote:
Will we see YOW-LHR being flown by A330 in late 2019 ?


I’d hazard a guess that the one remaining mainline 763 will operate YOW-LHR, or more specifically YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ until the end of the winter 2019-20 season and then will go 330 or 788 in summer 2020. I’d bet that YOW’s existing transatlantic routes will go 788 unless AC decide to reopen a 330 base at YYZ as AC for eons have had a daily 763 on Rapidair for both a) peak time of day pax demand and cargo and b) to rotate the 763 fleet.


It makes sense, and I had bought up the issues on YYZ not having an A330 base anymore, 788 seems to be more likely. Unless FRA goes all year round then it can incorporate the YUL-FRA leg to dispatch from YUL.

However, the 767 rapidair flight helps to clear out quite a lot of standbys for AC. I had flown this flight frequently, and it's usually full, even in J, I don't see it going anywhere.

As for cargo demand, there isn't much departing from YOW. Most national/translantic express mail or parcels are usually routed through YUL by truck.


True on the cargo front, but almost all cargo heading to the Baffin region of Nunavut goes via YOW and any AC interlining would come through as well. First Air stated a few months ago they alone flew over 12,000 tonnes out of YOW last year.

Either way, without any crew bases at YOW, AC will always need to rotate widebodies on a YYZ run. A YOW-YUL widebody makes no sense vs the large O&D on YOW-YYZ, especially at peak times of the day for the day tripper biz pax.
 
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:22 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Either way, without any crew bases at YOW, AC will always need to rotate widebodies on a YYZ run. A YOW-YUL widebody makes no sense vs the large O&D on YOW-YYZ, especially at peak times of the day for the day tripper biz pax.


The only reason the 767 flies YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ is because that is the only route out of LHR the 767 is presently flying. A 787 or A330 can fly LHR-YOW-LHR (and avoid YYZ completely) as the aircraft is routed through LHR all the time.

Just because the pilots are based at YYZ or YUL, doesn't mean the aircraft has to originate there. An A330 can fly YOW-LHR with YUL pilots which deadhead into YOW from YUL. Same thing with the 787 out of YOW with pilots deadheaded in from either YUL or YYZ.

Another example would be YYC-LHR being flown by YVR 787 pilots. The pilots start and end with a deadhead between YVR and YYC ... the aircraft just flies LHR-YYC-LHR.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:42 am

Airbus A330 -343 997 CS-TOU TAP Air Portugal ferried 26jan19 LIS-GIG prior delivery to Air Canada ex 9V-STD (Skyliner)


Registration is not yet known.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:47 am

All these 4 A330 will come from TAP where TP has been leasing these A333 until their A339 was delivered.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:03 am

Any update on when they are joining the fleet?
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:47 pm

I would have to guess soon. One has been painted, the other is likely soon finished, both at GIG if memory serves.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:11 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
I would have to guess soon. One has been painted, the other is likely soon finished, both at GIG if memory serves.


YUL-ALG starts June 8th, YUL-DUB June 15th and YVR-DUB June 16th. That's more or less two months away, one has been at GIG since end of January. Do they need them before summer season, especially now that the Max are grounded?
 
airzona11
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:01 am

Would AC pick up the WOW birds?
 
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:42 am

airzona11 wrote:
Would AC pick up the WOW birds?

The four A330-300 AC is taking are accounted for. I don't think they will pick up more, but things may change. There are many ex-SQ A333 are coming off lease, they can pick them up anytime they wish to.
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codyul
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:55 am

Well considering AC will have Lufthansa take their yul-fra flight for at least May month, it might be handy to have an extra wide body or two, if the price is right.
I would just kill to be a fly on the wall for their phone calls with Boeing over what exactly will be the compensation or deal for this grounding of the MAX. Will it result in a Dreamliner order at bigger discount? Will they just get some of their ordered MAX at even more discounted prices. I'm so curious.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
MoreMiles
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:05 am

Looks like AC will also be getting another A333 in 2020. Not sure where this one is coming from...
 
yulexpansion
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:56 am

codyul wrote:
Well considering AC will have Lufthansa take their yul-fra flight for at least May month, it might be handy to have an extra wide body or two, if the price is right.
I would just kill to be a fly on the wall for their phone calls with Boeing over what exactly will be the compensation or deal for this grounding of the MAX. Will it result in a Dreamliner order at bigger discount? Will they just get some of their ordered MAX at even more discounted prices. I'm so curious.


Do you really think AC would just keep an extra WB or two just like that? If they were to be needed, it would be to fly productively. AC doesn't make decisions to decrease aircraft utilization.
 
billsalton92
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:16 am

Apart from the 4 TP 333s and supposedly a 5th frame in 2020, it's my understanding from internal sources that AC would like another couple in the near future. A few of pondered whether WOW's 333ceo's would be viable
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:41 pm

yulexpansion wrote:
Do you really think AC would just keep an extra WB or two just like that? If they were to be needed, it would be to fly productively. AC doesn't make decisions to decrease aircraft utilization.


Yeah I meant having a bunch of widebodies in the side parking lot, with the engines running, just in case. LOL
An 'extra' wide body could consolidate 2 or 3 narrow body long haul domestic or transborder. And that way it could be shifted for another use, in a case such as this.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
EChid
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:44 am

codyul wrote:
Well considering AC will have Lufthansa take their yul-fra flight for at least May month, it might be handy to have an extra wide body or two, if the price is right.
I would just kill to be a fly on the wall for their phone calls with Boeing over what exactly will be the compensation or deal for this grounding of the MAX. Will it result in a Dreamliner order at bigger discount? Will they just get some of their ordered MAX at even more discounted prices. I'm so curious.

I wouldn't mind hearing those conversations either. They already have great pricing on both the MAX and 787 if rumours are correct. And it seems like if they are taking widebodies, they're taking A330s (because no matter what, a new aircraft is never going to be cheaper than a used one that's available in great supply). Plus, AC 'underutilizes' their 787s across the Atlantic all the time now (as do many airlines), so they can freely stick the cheap-and-only-slightly-less-efficient A330s on TATL and keep their existing Dreamliners back to open up more longhaul routes.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:49 am

airzona11 wrote:
Would AC pick up the WOW birds?

AC is more interested in WW's A321s than its A333s me thinks (given that they've already taken some). Besides, given the delays in reconfiguring them it's easier to deal with just one alternative pre-retrofit seating layout than two.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:27 am

Who cares about AC reasons? They have some and we appreciate that.
Our skies and airports needs more A333 than those monstruosities called A350.
We enthusiasts around fully support AC initiative! :bouncy:

 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:59 am

I personally wouldn't discount AC looking into the wow A333s, I think it would be unwise not to. They like the type a lot, and it's a fantastic TATL aircraft which has allowed them to grow YUL especially to a really well served hub. I think the confusion on this thread arises with timeline, I don't think most feel like it's feesible to bring them in to balance the max grounding, firstly, it's waaaaaay too late for that, and secondly, that would be extremely short sighted, they aren't going to pick up a ton of capacity just to have it sit when the max comes back. If they are going to take on more than the 5 upcoming additional A333s, it'll be for next summer at earliest. They still have 6 763s to retire next winter, and most of the new A333 capacity is already spoken for, the challenge will be S20. The 763s run a couple niche international routes, and a lot of YYZ domestic flying, the internationals will likely be covered by the existing fleet, the domestic might need some more lift, especially during peak months where there isn't much widebody slack.
 
yulexpansion
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:23 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
I personally wouldn't discount AC looking into the wow A333s, I think it would be unwise not to. They like the type a lot, and it's a fantastic TATL aircraft which has allowed them to grow YUL especially to a really well served hub. I think the confusion on this thread arises with timeline, I don't think most feel like it's feesible to bring them in to balance the max grounding, firstly, it's waaaaaay too late for that, and secondly, that would be extremely short sighted, they aren't going to pick up a ton of capacity just to have it sit when the max comes back. If they are going to take on more than the 5 upcoming additional A333s, it'll be for next summer at earliest. They still have 6 763s to retire next winter, and most of the new A333 capacity is already spoken for, the challenge will be S20. The 763s run a couple niche international routes, and a lot of YYZ domestic flying, the internationals will likely be covered by the existing fleet, the domestic might need some more lift, especially during peak months where there isn't much widebody slack.


Given the wobbly macroeconomic status at a global level, I think it would be unwise for AC to plan for extra capacity. With oil prices trending upwards, the risk of a recession increasing by the month, having more aircraft to ground in case of a slowdown is a risk no airline wants to take. Apart from Rouge, AC's fleet is pretty much staying put for the next 1-2 years. The 12-13 A333s AC will have by the end of next year are the flex fleet if we can call it that way, in case of a slowdown, they will park those.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:36 pm

yulexpansion wrote:
Given the wobbly macroeconomic status at a global level, I think it would be unwise for AC to plan for extra capacity. With oil prices trending upwards, the risk of a recession increasing by the month, having more aircraft to ground in case of a slowdown is a risk no airline wants to take. Apart from Rouge, AC's fleet is pretty much staying put for the next 1-2 years. The 12-13 A333s AC will have by the end of next year are the flex fleet if we can call it that way, in case of a slowdown, they will park those.

Exactly. Air Canada was in the process of preparing for the next economic slowdown when the 737s were grounded.

The wild cards right now appear to be the 767s and the E190s. They are planned to leave within the next year, however, indications now are that they are staying longer than planned. If there is any sort of an economic "blip" in the next couple of years, these fins can be parked quickly.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:51 pm

While globally, I agree there is certainly a degree of instability, I think the overall risk of another massive recession is relatively low, given that economies are moving towards more diversity, less of an all eggs in one basket approach. That provides insulation if certain industries tank, others can pick up the slack. Just my observation, I may well be wrong, economics isn't my field of expertise.

I think much like the economy, airlines need a balance, they need to be ready for the worst, but they also don't want to be caught with their pants down if it doesn't happen. Right now, the Canadian economy isn't exactly stellar, yet AC is doing quite well, the demand is still strong, they still do have to consider that a more competitive environment that we are seeing, I personally would be looking for cost effective, low risk capacity additions where it fits, to maintain the market share advantage.
 
tphuang
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:53 pm

Given the recent grounding of 737MAX, is there any thought in AC to order more A321 or A220?
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:05 pm

longhauler wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Either way, without any crew bases at YOW, AC will always need to rotate widebodies on a YYZ run. A YOW-YUL widebody makes no sense vs the large O&D on YOW-YYZ, especially at peak times of the day for the day tripper biz pax.


The only reason the 767 flies YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ is because that is the only route out of LHR the 767 is presently flying. A 787 or A330 can fly LHR-YOW-LHR (and avoid YYZ completely) as the aircraft is routed through LHR all the time.

Just because the pilots are based at YYZ or YUL, doesn't mean the aircraft has to originate there. An A330 can fly YOW-LHR with YUL pilots which deadhead into YOW from YUL. Same thing with the 787 out of YOW with pilots deadheaded in from either YUL or YYZ.

Another example would be YYC-LHR being flown by YVR 787 pilots. The pilots start and end with a deadhead between YVR and YYC ... the aircraft just flies LHR-YYC-LHR.


Hesitant to contradict you Longhauler, I have immense respect for your presence on this forum. However, I thought the main reasons for the tag-on was not a question of crew but of maintenance ? I thought AC had only the smallest of maintenance centers at YOW to deal with the "easy" and "common" stuff, anything else goes through YUL or YYZ. Having a planned tag-on to one of these maintenance centers helps with both scheduled maintenance, and unscheduled (For instance, MEL something YOW-YYZ that is necessary for ETOPS but not for the short hop, swap the frame at YYZ, carry on...)
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2012
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:05 pm

longhauler wrote:
yulexpansion wrote:
Given the wobbly macroeconomic status at a global level, I think it would be unwise for AC to plan for extra capacity. With oil prices trending upwards, the risk of a recession increasing by the month, having more aircraft to ground in case of a slowdown is a risk no airline wants to take. Apart from Rouge, AC's fleet is pretty much staying put for the next 1-2 years. The 12-13 A333s AC will have by the end of next year are the flex fleet if we can call it that way, in case of a slowdown, they will park those.

Exactly. Air Canada was in the process of preparing for the next economic slowdown when the 737s were grounded.

The wild cards right now appear to be the 767s and the E190s. They are planned to leave within the next year, however, indications now are that they are staying longer than planned. If there is any sort of an economic "blip" in the next couple of years, these fins can be parked quickly.


I'm guessing you're referring to the 6 mainline 767s sticking around longer than the end of the year?

SwissCanuck wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Either way, without any crew bases at YOW, AC will always need to rotate widebodies on a YYZ run. A YOW-YUL widebody makes no sense vs the large O&D on YOW-YYZ, especially at peak times of the day for the day tripper biz pax.


The only reason the 767 flies YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ is because that is the only route out of LHR the 767 is presently flying. A 787 or A330 can fly LHR-YOW-LHR (and avoid YYZ completely) as the aircraft is routed through LHR all the time.

Just because the pilots are based at YYZ or YUL, doesn't mean the aircraft has to originate there. An A330 can fly YOW-LHR with YUL pilots which deadhead into YOW from YUL. Same thing with the 787 out of YOW with pilots deadheaded in from either YUL or YYZ.

Another example would be YYC-LHR being flown by YVR 787 pilots. The pilots start and end with a deadhead between YVR and YYC ... the aircraft just flies LHR-YYC-LHR.


Hesitant to contradict you Longhauler, I have immense respect for your presence on this forum. However, I thought the main reasons for the tag-on was not a question of crew but of maintenance ? I thought AC had only the smallest of maintenance centers at YOW to deal with the "easy" and "common" stuff, anything else goes through YUL or YYZ. Having a planned tag-on to one of these maintenance centers helps with both scheduled maintenance, and unscheduled (For instance, MEL something YOW-YYZ that is necessary for ETOPS but not for the short hop, swap the frame at YYZ, carry on...)


The 763 also provides a boost in Rapidair capacity at the peak time of day. AC834/835 do that for GVA-YUL-YYZ too. I'd imagine most GVA pax either get off or connect at YUL ('cause if the majority were YYZ-bound, YYZ would have its own GVA nonstop) leaving most of the A330 for peak hour Rapidair needs.
Last edited by Dominion301 on Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 999
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:14 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
yulexpansion wrote:
Given the wobbly macroeconomic status at a global level, I think it would be unwise for AC to plan for extra capacity. With oil prices trending upwards, the risk of a recession increasing by the month, having more aircraft to ground in case of a slowdown is a risk no airline wants to take. Apart from Rouge, AC's fleet is pretty much staying put for the next 1-2 years. The 12-13 A333s AC will have by the end of next year are the flex fleet if we can call it that way, in case of a slowdown, they will park those.

Exactly. Air Canada was in the process of preparing for the next economic slowdown when the 737s were grounded.

The wild cards right now appear to be the 767s and the E190s. They are planned to leave within the next year, however, indications now are that they are staying longer than planned. If there is any sort of an economic "blip" in the next couple of years, these fins can be parked quickly.


I'm guessing you're referring to the 6 mainline 767s sticking around longer than the end of the year?

SwissCanuck wrote:
longhauler wrote:

The only reason the 767 flies YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ is because that is the only route out of LHR the 767 is presently flying. A 787 or A330 can fly LHR-YOW-LHR (and avoid YYZ completely) as the aircraft is routed through LHR all the time.

Just because the pilots are based at YYZ or YUL, doesn't mean the aircraft has to originate there. An A330 can fly YOW-LHR with YUL pilots which deadhead into YOW from YUL. Same thing with the 787 out of YOW with pilots deadheaded in from either YUL or YYZ.

Another example would be YYC-LHR being flown by YVR 787 pilots. The pilots start and end with a deadhead between YVR and YYC ... the aircraft just flies LHR-YYC-LHR.


Hesitant to contradict you Longhauler, I have immense respect for your presence on this forum. However, I thought the main reasons for the tag-on was not a question of crew but of maintenance ? I thought AC had only the smallest of maintenance centers at YOW to deal with the "easy" and "common" stuff, anything else goes through YUL or YYZ. Having a planned tag-on to one of these maintenance centers helps with both scheduled maintenance, and unscheduled (For instance, MEL something YOW-YYZ that is necessary for ETOPS but not for the short hop, swap the frame at YYZ, carry on...)


The 763 also provides a boost in Rapidair capacity at the peak time of day. AC834/835 do that for GVA-YUL-YYZ too. I'd imagine most GVA pax either get off or connect at YUL leaving most of the A330 for peak hour Rapidair needs.


The rapidair widebodies certainly do serve a purpose beyond just repositioning, you are right on that one. Anecdotal, but the last rapidair I was on was a 77W and every seat was full, no irrops.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:52 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
Hesitant to contradict you Longhauler, I have immense respect for your presence on this forum. However, I thought the main reasons for the tag-on was not a question of crew but of maintenance ? I thought AC had only the smallest of maintenance centers at YOW to deal with the "easy" and "common" stuff, anything else goes through YUL or YYZ. Having a planned tag-on to one of these maintenance centers helps with both scheduled maintenance, and unscheduled (For instance, MEL something YOW-YYZ that is necessary for ETOPS but not for the short hop, swap the frame at YYZ, carry on...)

I don't see it as a contradiction .. more a discussion. ;)

But I understand what you are saying. I think you are correct in that maintenance at YOW is more than most stations, but certainly not as capable as YYZ, YUL and (get this) LHR! So the pattern (for example) YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-LHR-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ would work as well. As long as it cycles through more capable maintenance stations.

I am not sure what they can do at YOW, but I have had a few maintenance issues that have been solved there, including MEL issues. All is done through Maintenance Control in YUL anyway. So with the 767 presence in YOW, I am guessing that there is at least one 767 rated AME on duty there during normal hours ... or at least, on call.

But, really the point I was making earlier, is that often the YOW operation starts with the flight crew positioning into YOW from YYZ, as the aircraft does not originate in YYZ. The same thing will happen when the 787 (or A330) takes over from the 767 for YOW Atlantic operations.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:49 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
AC834/835 do that for GVA-YUL-YYZ too. I'd imagine most GVA pax either get off or connect at YUL ('cause if the majority were YYZ-bound, YYZ would have its own GVA nonstop) leaving most of the A330 for peak hour Rapidair needs.


I've often observed that it's not always the same aircraft that operates the domestic segment and the international. Sometimes the Airbus operates YVR-YUL-BRU/ GVA/ LYS etc.
 
ptwings
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:37 pm

Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:34 pm

One already painted but still with cs- registration https://xn--aviao-dra1a.pt/index.php?ac ... 6196;image
Functional flight early today in LIS, likely acceptance or so https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... u#20100e83
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6214
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Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:23 am

So it shouldn't be long now before #939 joins the fleet.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6214
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:16 pm

Apparently it's now registered in Canada.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... da/O68QhOX
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6214
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:52 pm

 
jwjsamster
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:12 am

Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:33 pm

Do we know where it is heading? YYZ or YUL? Also is it already in AC colours?
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6214
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada will add 4 more A330-300s in 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:38 pm

jwjsamster wrote:
Do we know where it is heading? YYZ or YUL?


I would have said YUL, but flightaware reports it's heading to YVR.

https://de.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA2325

jwjsamster wrote:
Also is it already in AC colours?


Yes.

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